Project Bad Penny - more changes because done is boring

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey, what fun would it be if our cars were ever actually done?
We built it, wrecked it, re-built, flogged it - we know what works, what needs work, and what sucks.

I have a feeling the competition is going to keep getting faster, so an attempt to make the mousetrap a little better we will initiation a string of upgrades to orange '68.

Most of these will entail suspension changes.

1. Address lower control arm angle when car is at prefered ride height.
2. Add rear adjustable sway bar.
3. Calculate spring rates and adjust if necessary.
4. Revalve Bilstein shocks to new suspension.
5. Install proper breather system that still looks nice.
6. Install oil cooler system.
7. Rework gauge system with new units from STACK.
8. Finally finish installing Safecraft fire system.

The list will most likely grow, but this is a good start. In addition to getting her ready for all the autocross and open track junk later this year I will also be hitting the track more to get some much needed practice. Somebody else can take the damn pictures. lol

So, to start it off here's my favorite picture from last year. She did good, but she's got a lot more in her.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/8y7xis-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

The first item up for some lovin are my C5 uprights.

Penny suffers from two problems. The first is that the best looking front ride heigth is NOT the best for the geometry. At that heigth the lower control arms don't sit level.

The other problem is that I could use more shock travel.

To fix both of these issues we will be bolting on a set of billet C5 uprights. They have a 1.25-inch drop, a much needed extra degree of camber, and a much improved upper ball joint.

The are from Raceeng Design and they are sweet. They took the normal unit they sell to race teams and modified it to work on Penny or any other musclecar using a C5/C6 based suspension.

http://www.racesengdesign.com/c5c6lowrights.php

Jarrett over there was a pleasure to work with. I told them they could just cut off the stock steering arm, but they went through the trouble of reprogramming thier mill to delete it. Heck, they even custom engraved the first set.

With this done I will be working with Dave and Mary Pozzi to get the rest dialed in proper like.

The uprights are on the way, but Jarrett sent me this teaser shot:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/10mltuq-1.jpg

[zbugger]

Very nice. Hopefully I can stop by Dave and Mary's place to check out what's going on with Penny. I can't wait to see if the improvements make the difference it needs.

[Steve1968LS2]

Very nice. Hopefully I can stop by Dave and Mary's place to check out what's going on with Penny. I can't wait to see if the improvements make the difference it needs.

She will be there late tomorrow.

I don't how the changes couldn't help. Hell, just getting more camber is a big deal. The rear bar should be a huge benefit as well. I would rather have more bar and less spring, but to do that I need to at least have a darn bar. lol

[MuscleRodz]

Those uprights are sick. Is there any upgrade available for bearing packs that is not STUPID money?

[Steve1968LS2]

Those uprights are sick. Is there any upgrade available for bearing packs that is not STUPID money?

Not that I know of, but I will ask Jarrett since he deals with race teams all the time.

[rat_rod_russell]

PFADT has some that aren't stupid expensive

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/28_49/products_id/125

-R^3

[Steve1968LS2]

PFADT has some that aren't stupid expensive

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/28_49/products_id/125

-R^3

$760 a pair is better than some I've seen.. I can't imagine a downside for the street.

They also have so killer sperical upper control arm mounts but $2k is way big money..

Oh well, nobody said racing was cheap. lol

[rat_rod_russell]

Aaron has been helping me with some of my C5 C6 conversion parts. His Coilovers are killer and he'll custom build sway bars for corvette suspension cars for your width or sway them for clearance around parts. I've been in the one vette with his coils and street sway bars and the car felt solid all over the track then the owner cranked a few knobs and went home. He's also making a set with in car adjustable controls that I want for the shop A body project. Make a lap and not need to pit to adjust the shocks before you go into the next corner.

[CarlC]

"SKF Asymmetric - Roll formed design."

I'd like to get a look-see at a cross-sectional drawing. Sounds like it may be a large-small ball design. SKF makes nice parts.

Going to get it all done for March 14-15 Steve?

[HectorM52]

Sweet. I'm looking forward to seeing it run even better.

[Steve1968LS2]

"SKF Asymmetric - Roll formed design."

I'd like to get a look-see at a cross-sectional drawing. Sounds like it may be a large-small ball design. SKF makes nice parts.

Going to get it all done for March 14-15 Steve?

Damn straight skippy...

Or at least that's the plan. The spindles, bars and shocks are on the HOT list. The breather system should be cake.

The fire system, gauges and cooler will be after. Might get the cooler done but it's not critical for an autox.

You can come down and check out the EFI tank for TR and the spindles whenever you want next week.

[Vegas69]

I heard a rumor but I don't want to give away your secrets to those watching.:1st:

[MuscleRodz]

Does the 21st century sub not use the stock vette steering arms? What is going in their place?

[Steve1968LS2]

Does the 21st century sub not use the stock vette steering arms? What is going in their place?

Nope.. they are hacked off and in seperate arms are bolted to the back of the spindle using factory holes. Like this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/wjcmpt-1.jpg

[James OLC]

Those spindles are awesome - I can't wait to see how this plays out for you.

Now hurry up and get that rear bar sorted out... I'ma coming...

[Damn True]

No kidding. I mean, if it's adjustable David might as well make three of them right?

[Steve1968LS2]

Those spindles are awesome - I can't wait to see how this plays out for you.

Now hurry up and get that rear bar sorted out... I'ma coming...


No kidding. I mean, if it's adjustable David might as well make three of them right?

Leeches! lol

It would be a little different on mine since my rear frame rails are moved in a touch, but doing mine should make doing one for you much easier.

I will see if I can get a cross-section drawing of that slick upper ball joint.

[Steve1968LS2]

Hmm.. might be good to pick this up for the control arms.. better than the rubber and WAY cheaper than the sperical. So long as they aren't noisy and squeeky..

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/23_29/products_id/43

[rat_rod_russell]

Hmm.. might be good to pick this up for the control arms.. better than the rubber and WAY cheaper than the sperical. So long as they aren't noisy and squeeky..

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/23_29/products_id/43


Just call PFADT and ask Robin (Aaron's wife) to sell you just the front spherical bearings. There both ridiculously nice and will bend over backwards for you at the drop of a hat.

Check this out, Aaron's New Z06 Corvette rear suspension driving with a camera mounted under the car. The amount of deflection on those rubbers is stupid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkrH4l_zt2Y&feature=channel_page

With your numbers so well worked out this would just make your calculations more lethal knowing that nothing is moving too much more than when it was sitting on the alignment rack.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
:drool:

-Russell

[Bow Tie 67]

Oh you guys with the corvette stuff suck!!

Cool beans Steve, I give up already. Just dont forget the most important nut, YOU the driver.

[Ron S]

I've got to commend you Steve.You are doing what most guys never do,getting the bugs out,and trying get to the cars full potential.So many guys build nice cars,but very few take the time to fine tune them,and make it into a force to be reckoned with on the track.Penny has been a fun one to watch be built,crashed and built again,faster,stronger{its the 6 million dollar Camaro}LOL.Probably feels that way to you. Any idea what the cost on the uprights will be? Ron

[LMDGUY]

SWEET! Bad Penny 3.0 ??

[Steve1968LS2]

SWEET! Bad Penny 3.0 ??

Nah, it would take another major deal (accident, rebuild) to jump a whole number.. this is just fine tuning.. so 2.2 is more appropriate. lol

[68/CamaroFL]

Steve,
Those billet C5 uprights are Awesome!
the upgrades never stop do they its never ending

Steve did you receive my e-mail?

[Payton King]

a month or so ago on the spherical bushings. He has sets just for the front as some people just want the rear set for drags I guess. I think you can get the front set for about $1000. I know they are suppose to let you run a lot less camber as there is no flex in the bushing and no binding...so your front suspension works way better. The draw back is vibration and noise in the car. I do not know about yours, but mine vibrates and is noisy anyway...mounted on solid subframe bushings, weld in connectors. Been kicking this around for a while. I wish you would do it and tell me how it is, so I do not have to be the tester. I also thought about getting another set of upper and lower control arms and put those bushings in them. When it is time for track day or auto cross just switch them in. No need to re-align is you mark where you need to set the eccentrics or use their camber plates.

Seperate note...are you running a power steering cooler?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
Those billet C5 uprights are Awesome!
the upgrades never stop do they its never ending

Steve did you receive my e-mail?

Yea, just been swamped. Thanks for the info and we will get you in the magazine asap.

[Steve1968LS2]

a month or so ago on the spherical bushings. He has sets just for the front as some people just want the rear set for drags I guess. I think you can get the front set for about $1000. I know they are suppose to let you run a lot less camber as there is no flex in the bushing and no binding...so your front suspension works way better. The draw back is vibration and noise in the car. I do not know about yours, but mine vibrates and is noisy anyway...mounted on solid subframe bushings, weld in connectors. Been kicking this around for a while. I wish you would do it and tell me how it is, so I do not have to be the tester. I also thought about getting another set of upper and lower control arms and put those bushings in them. When it is time for track day or auto cross just switch them in. No need to re-align is you mark where you need to set the eccentrics or use their camber plates.

Seperate note...are you running a power steering cooler?

Yea, I might give them a shot. Certainly interesting. I wonder how much more "noise" there is?

No PS cooler. I have a pump from Turn One and it's supposed to run a lot cooler than stock. No real problems so far.

[CarlC]

After a bad experience with polyurethane, I'll never use them again.

You want those spherical bushings. You NEED those spherical bushings!

Think small PS cooler.....

[Paul_J]

I guess change is cool and I can understand wanting to fix the lower control arm angle but I would be careful. There is some strange parallel universe thing going on around your car that alters the laws of physics and even with the control arm angle you still beat the pants off the competition! I would be careful messing with that kind of MoJo!

[rat_rod_russell]

After a bad experience with polyurethane, I'll never use them again.

You want those spherical bushings. You NEED those spherical bushings!

Think small PS cooler.....

Do what they did on the first batch of C4 corvettes for coolers. go off the low pressure side of hte rack and add in an aluminum loop for the fluid to travel through before it goes back to the pump.

-R^3

[Payton King]

sphericals on Corvettes. They were able to run .5 degrees less static camber with the polys and another .5 degrees with the sphericals, so that is 1 full degree less with them over the rubber bushings you have now. Better tire wear and better braking straight line with more tire contact patch. You also have no toe change from the bushings flexing, so pretty much run it at zero.

Same people said there is more noise and vibration with them, but you have to remember they are putting these on Corvettes and doing the rears as well. Last Corvette I rode in felt like a Caddy, so something noticable in that car probably would not be noticed in mine or yours. You have to be getting vibration from your 3 link with the heim joints, solid mount steering with no rag joint, solid sub frame bushing...I mean most of the rubber has been taken out of your car. The front bushings are all that is left...not sure how much vibration would come through the steering wheel.

[Steve1968LS2]

Well, Penny is now safely up in the Pozzi's shop for a little TLC.

First off, Dave has a killer shop which sure makes it easy to carry out a vision for a part.

And it's Camaro heaven in the place. Here is Penny in her new temp home.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/no9b13-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

I guess change is cool and I can understand wanting to fix the lower control arm angle but I would be careful. There is some strange parallel universe thing going on around your car that alters the laws of physics and even with the control arm angle you still beat the pants off the competition! I would be careful messing with that kind of MoJo!

Yea, I will fix all of the problems and screw the car up. lol

The main upside to the car is that it just hooks to the road it maintains a nearly full contact patch all the time. Even the roll is hardly an issue, it just looks bad. But, all cars can benefit from a good sorting out. After noodling around under the car today I'm pretty confident that it can be a lot faster.

To be sure though I bought an extra extra year of "good mojo" from the Hatian witch doctor. :)


After a bad experience with polyurethane, I'll never use them again.

You want those spherical bushings. You NEED those spherical bushings!

Think small PS cooler.....

I'm falling for the sphericals.. I think it's love... lol

So far my Turn One pump hasn't needed a cooler.. time will tell..

[Steve1968LS2]

The first item taken off the list was the oil breather system. Dave's skills and tons of equipment let us make my idea work.

We welded a baffle into the Katech valve cover and then turnd down a part we had on the lathe to accept an AN fitting (it's 10-AN in the photo, will be 8-AN). We then cut down a breather tank to just the right size to package in front of the head. An 8-AN bung was welded in place. The tank was then welded to a head plate I had laying around. The whole tank assembly will be powdered in fine-texture-black like my closeout. I also have a cool idea to customize the breather.

When done it will be a very compact and hopefully good looking breather tank and my oil spewing days will be over.

Next up, sway bars and spindles...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/2rgfiu1-1.jpg

[Twentyover]

Man, looks the Pozzi barn is where old Camaros go to die.

Good thing I believe in rein-CAR-nation or I'd be a' cryin.

[Steve1968LS2]

Man, looks the Pozzi barn is where old Camaros go to die.

Good thing I believe in rein-CAR-nation or I'd be a' cryin.

The nice ones were out of frame. The red one you see is an ex Trans Am car David is going to put back to it's TA glory. The one right next to Penny is Daves that he's owned forever, going to fix it up.

That place is where old Camaros go to be reborn. lol

[compos mentis]

Did I miss a change with the hood? There was some cleared carbon fiber showing a few months back, correct?

[Steve1968LS2]

Did I miss a change with the hood? There was some cleared carbon fiber showing a few months back, correct?

Yea, that hood was for the Track Rat project and we just "borrowed" for the SEMA show and Optima race. It's back over to that project.

The steel hood weighs more, but I saved 4 lbs with my new hood hinges.

[zbugger]

Well damn. Dave and Mary have cleaned up a little since the time I was there. Penny looks good there.

[Damn True]

It's probably kind of a good thing I don't live closer to David and Mary.

Knock-Knock....uh hi David, and you help me with _______

[chicane67]

$760 a pair is better than some I've seen.. I can't imagine a downside for the street.

They also have so killer sperical upper control arm mounts but $2k is way big money..

Oh well, nobody said racing was cheap. lol



And to think... those are just bandaid bearing cartridges... and not even the good ones.



(echo... echo) think small ps cooler (echo... echo)

Do it now before you find that it has become you next problem.

[Steve1968LS2]

And to think... those are just bandaid bearing cartridges... and not even the good ones.



(echo... echo) think small ps cooler (echo... echo)

Do it now before you find that it has become you next problem.

I might do one just for you.. maybe call it the "Tom Holt memorial PS cooler" oh wait, your not dead yet (Monte Python reference)...

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's that lower control arm angle we mentioned. The good news is that you can see that the tie rod is parrallel to the control arm resulting in almost no bumpsteer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/33msgsn-1.jpg

[Damn True]

Silly question for Dave. In an SLA setup can it not work with either the top OR bottom arm parallel? Of course that setup would have to be designed in.

[David Pozzi]

Penny seems to work darn well right now, so even though the lower arms are not level, it seems to work OK.
Penny is darn low, so a lot of cars would not see any issues. One thing I just found out is Penny's subframe has vette suspension but it's been narrowed a lot more than I thought it was.

For most cars, the lower A arm needs to be pretty close to level, and the upper arm inclined downwards towards the center of the chassis, some are around 2 deg inclined but that's variable depending on a lot of factors.
Mustang II suspension has short upper and lower A arms, and a lower A arm angle the reverse of penny seems to work better for short arms.
David

[Steve1968LS2]

Yea, a vette "subframe" is pretty wide compared to a first gen.

Off to order up parts tomorrow.. and visit the power painter.. and the fitting shop.. This month is gonna FLY by.

[Ron S]

Tell me about it,I don't know if you have been following my Mustang build.I'm using a factory C5 subframe,and its about a foot wider then a 66 Mustang.Its funny I just did a bumpsteer test on the car the easy way.With the spring out of the front I cycled the suspension through its full range of travel,and the steering wheel did not move at all.Gm engineers were on the ball on that one.Keep the pics coming,love the build.Ron

[hectore3]

Here's that lower control arm angle we mentioned. The good news is that you can see that the tie rod is parrallel to the control arm resulting in almost no bumpsteer.


Just noticing that oil filter appears so vulnerable hanging out front there to debris. Ever thought about a shield of sorts?

[Steve1968LS2]

Just noticing that oil filter appears so vulnerable hanging out front there to debris. Ever thought about a shield of sorts?

First, the K&N has a thicker housing and can take more abuse. Secondly there's usually a front spoiler offering some protection.

Chance are that if I hit anything big enough to really damage the oil filter that I will have "bigger problems" to worry about.

Hey, it's air cooled!

[preston]

You're definitely going the right direction with the spindles. That lower arm angle looks hideous. In fact I've found some of my best results on the computer are with a slight angle upwards to the chassis. Seems to reduce scrub while maintaining good camber control. Minimizes roll center movement as well. Those things must cost some serious dollars, but in your case they will be with it. Just make sure that you still have your turning radius. With high backspace front wheels you may run into tie rod interference as it will now be lower in the wheel and closer to teh outside radius. On the other hand the backspacing on my front wheels is 9" so maybe itsj just me. With the more normal 6.5-7" backspacing it probably isn't an issue.

[Steve1968LS2]

You're definitely going the right direction with the spindles. That lower arm angle looks hideous. In fact I've found some of my best results on the computer are with a slight angle upwards to the chassis. Seems to reduce scrub while maintaining good camber control. Minimizes roll center movement as well. Those things must cost some serious dollars, but in your case they will be with it. Just make sure that you still have your turning radius. With high backspace front wheels you may run into tie rod interference as it will now be lower in the wheel and closer to teh outside radius. On the other hand the backspacing on my front wheels is 9" so maybe itsj just me. With the more normal 6.5-7" backspacing it probably isn't an issue.

I should note that with the 17" wheels the angle was slightly less. Still, as bad as it looks it didn't seem to hurt the car very bad. But, if we make a bunch of little things better it should make a noticable difference.

I looked and I don't think the turning radius will be an issues, but I will keep an eye on it. A bigger issue is how close the tie rod end is to the rotor. I worry about heat off the rotor killing the tie rod. Maybe I need a little heat shield. lol

[buickfunnycar.com]

A bigger issue is how close the tie rod end is to the rotor. I worry about heat off the rotor killing the tie rod. Maybe I need a little heat shield. lol

Yeah,I would look into fabbing something up there,it's a tight fit as is,surprised you haven't cooked them.

Beautiful car though Steve,I was honored to be sitting under her on the lift...:smoke:

[David Pozzi]

Heat shields are a good idea. I noticed on the DSE and Morrison subs they are close like that too.
David

[Steve1968LS2]

Heat shields are a good idea. I noticed on the DSE and Morrison subs they are close like that too.
David

Yea, think of a small curved shield tacked to at small tab. That tab would sandwich between the tie rods castle nut and the steering arm. The tab could then be thermal coated to reflect heat. Or the tab could possibly be held in place by the zirc fitting.

Sound workable?

[David Pozzi]

I was thinking bailing wire and duct tape! :enguard:

[Steve1968LS2]

I was thinking bailing wire and duct tape! :enguard:

Wow, I was expecting you to offer one or the other.. not BOTH!

;)

[buickfunnycar.com]

I was thinking bailing wire and duct tape! :enguard:

LOL...get 'er done Dave!

[1971CHEVELLE]

Well, Penny is now safely up in the Pozzi's shop for a little TLC.

First off, Dave has a killer shop which sure makes it easy to carry out a vision for a part.

And it's Camaro heaven in the place. Here is Penny in her new temp home.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/no9b13-1.jpg
:1st: Wow awesomr car

[Steve1968LS2]

My uprights have arrived.. trying to see if the sperical bearings are in the budget or not.

Man, these things are sweet. If anyone has seen the ones sold by LG Motorsports the extra work in these should be evident. Almost too nice to put on a car. lol

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/30utvsx-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/ws011x-1.jpg

[Motown 454]

Very Nice !

[rat_rod_russell]

Are the upper ball joints sealed bearings or is there a zert where I can't see it? It looks like the top is exposed and could hold water?

[Steve1968LS2]

Are the upper ball joints sealed bearings or is there a zert where I can't see it? It looks like the top is exposed and could hold water?

Sealed sperical stainless bearings. The the upper is fancy. The lower is still stock for now.

I will get more info on it if you like...

[Steve1968LS2]

Turns out the second gen 7/8" hotchkis bar fits perfectly.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/f2kkr5-1.jpg

[Damn True]

No idea yet if I'll need one, but its good to know the option will be there.

Thanks Steve.

[zbugger]

Looks like Mary is parting out the 2nd gen.... That's awesome that it fits!! It'll should really change how the car feels.

[Steve1968LS2]

New plate today.. just need to toss on the registration stickers. :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/bi7xac-1.jpg

www.licenseplates.tv

[Steve1968LS2]

New double adjustable shocks by the Pozzi's.. these are the R&D units, but they will have retail units ready for sale soon! ;)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/

[brownz]

Nice plate.

[thetoystore]

i almost went with those shocks but the ride was a little harsh so i went with air

[aray327]

steve I didn't think it was possible to improve your car any more than it was...

[Steve1968LS2]

i almost went with those shocks but the ride was a little harsh so i went with air

The valving of a shock determins how it reacts (harshness) not the shock itself.

Just like you have could have an airspring set wrong and have a bad (ie, harsh) ride.

Although I do have Penny's set to a more "firm" state.

[Ripper]

Great project!


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/30utvsx-1.jpg

Any idea how thick the uprights are arount the mounting flange?
If you don't understand what I'm asking; how deep are the holes for the screws that holds the wheel bearing?

[lt1chevelle]

on the web site it says "

Product Details: ** Cannot be shipped to California addresses "

how did u get yours and can if be used on the car or is it just a thing to hang up?




New plate today.. just need to toss on the registration stickers. :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/bi7xac-1.jpg

www.licenseplates.tv (http://www.licenseplates.tv)

[carguy502]

on the web site it says "

Product Details: ** Cannot be shipped to California addresses "

how did u get yours and can if be used on the car or is it just a thing to hang up?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. I have relatives in Florida, but would prefer not to bother them...

[Steve1968LS2]

Great project!



Any idea how thick the uprights are arount the mounting flange?
If you don't understand what I'm asking; how deep are the holes for the screws that holds the wheel bearing?

I will have to hit them with a caliper to find out.. or maybe Dave can.


on the web site it says "

Product Details: ** Cannot be shipped to California addresses "

how did u get yours and can if be used on the car or is it just a thing to hang up?

I shipped them to my folks in Texas.. they shipped them to me in CA. :)

Also, here are the adjustment points for the new rear sway bar. Quite a range of adjustability to choose from.

The rear bar lb ratings per hole:
hole lbs
1. 737
2. 612
3. 516
4. 440
5. 379
6. 330
7. 289

[Steve1968LS2]

My new STACK dash arrived from England today.. can't wait for the rest to get here since I've never had a analog tach that worked right.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/21cutys-1.jpg

Here's the site.. pretty cool stuff and I like how it has an analog tach rather than a digital one.

I got the street version since I don't need data-logging (my racepack does that). I also have a set of the center gauges on the way along with a sequential shift light option.

http://www.stackltd.com/

It's nice since they are part of autometer now. Beats calling Europe for tech questions.

[ebncrdr]

Also, here are the adjustment points for the new rear sway bar. Quite a range of adjustability to choose from.

The rear bar lb ratings per hole:
hole lbs
1. 737
2. 612
3. 516
4. 440
5. 379
6. 330
7. 289

Wow the sway bar setup is really cool! How did you get the adjustability in the bar? Dont the hotchiks bars usually have enough room for just the 1 mounting hole?

[Steve1968LS2]

Wow the sway bar setup is really cool! How did you get the adjustability in the bar? Dont the hotchiks bars usually have enough room for just the 1 mounting hole?

True.. but Dave modified the bar to accept more holes. I will grab a picture when I'm up there later this week.

[Damn True]

Weather still looks iffy for this weekend. I am crossing my fingers.

[Steve1968LS2]

Weather still looks iffy for this weekend. I am crossing my fingers.

Me too.. would be nice to shake down the car, but it has to come home Sunday/Monday no matter what.

[HectorM52]

True.. but Dave modified the bar to accept more holes. I will grab a picture when I'm up there later this week.
Yes please - I want to see this too!

[David Pozzi]

Here's Penny's new rear bar, courtesy of Hotchkis.
I cut the bar ends off and welded on my own ends with multiple holes for more adjustment, also put set collars on each side of the bar to make sure it stays centered.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here's a shot of the end link left side, note Penny has a raised floor in this area with thicker frame rail piece welded above the stock frame rail, this is where I anchored the end links. These are 8.25" long, but I may shorten them more after the car is on it's wheels to set the bar angle. I think on a stock rail the end links would be 5.75".
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[HectorM52]

That's a BEAUTIFUL setup.

Keep up the AWESOME work.

[Steve1968LS2]

Cool deal Dave, can't wait to try it out and then add the new front goodies.

After Costa Mesa I will pull all that stuff off and get it powdered and made pretty.

The new bushings, bearings, and ball joints should be here Monday from Pfadt and I secured another set of C5 control arms for the modifications.

[Damn True]

Here's Penny's new rear bar, courtesy of Hotchkis.
I cut the bar ends off and welded on my own ends with multiple holes for more adjustment, also put set collars on each side of the bar to make sure it stays centered.



Here's a shot of the end link left side, note Penny has a raised floor in this area with thicker frame rail piece welded above the stock frame rail, this is where I anchored the end links. These are 8.25" long, but I may shorten them more after the car is on it's wheels to set the bar angle. I think on a stock rail the end links would be 5.75".


Noted.

Given the differences in the front suspensions between BP and the setups in mine and Shipka's cars what do you reckon the odds are of he and I needing a similar setup?

[Steve1968LS2]

Noted.

Given the differences in the front suspensions between BP and the setups in mine and Shipka's cars what do you reckon the odds are of he and I needing a similar setup?

I can't possibly see how the differences in your front suspension will offset the lack of a rear bar.

ie, get a rear bar ;)

[Damn True]

I dunno...roll centers? Just askin.

[David Pozzi]

I think you'll need one. If the rear roll center were high enough you might get by without one but you'd be running the top hole on the bellcrank and perhaps have 350 lb rear springs or higher. If you add enough rear spring and roll center height, you won't need a bar, but the rear RC will be pretty high, and the springs stiff.

A leaf spring Camaro would have a roll center about the height of the center of the axle.

[bonecrrusher]

Source of the heimjoints and the threaded tie rod bar for those swaybar endlinks?

[Steve1968LS2]

Took Penny to a shake down autocross event at Marina.. the rear bar certainly helped and the tires were much better once broken in. Thanks to Dave Pozzi for all the hard work!

I still need a real alignment.. right now at -.80 caster.. would like to have 1.5+

Here's a couple of shots.. I found out from Mary today that we were only a couple seconds off the CP class and they were on race tires. That was nice to hear.

Body roll seems to be greatly reduced. Will be going to a 500# front spring to help increase weight transfer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/2rr2cdh-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/2qiy73q-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/8wzl7t-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

Pics of finished rear suspension:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/qns506-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/34sfr60-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

We also scaled the car. Here's where we ended without the driver. The front to back was 52.4

With driver we were 52% front to rear. The back was 10 pounds off left to right and the front was 25-pounds heavy on the drivers side. That means I'm pretty well balanced unless I have a passenger.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/2ptun3s-1.jpg

[Damn True]

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53503

[Mkelcy]

I thought I read somewhere that you went back to the smaller front (anti)sway bar. True, and if so, why?

[Steve1968LS2]

I thought I read somewhere that you went back to the smaller front (anti)sway bar. True, and if so, why?

Yea, we worked hard to get the 1.25-inch .20 wall hollow bar on the car but the front got too stiff when combined with the new rear bar. So we went back to the 1-inch solid bar.

It's a process.. lol

[Mkelcy]

Yea, we worked hard to get the 1.25-inch .20 wall hollow bar on the car but the front got too stiff when combined with the new rear bar. So we went back to the 1-inch solid bar.

It's a process.. lol

Do you still think you need more bar on the front? (I ask because my 21st Century subframed, Lateral Dynamic 3 link rear end '68 is creeping ever closer to assembly.)

[Steve1968LS2]

Do you still think you need more bar on the front? (I ask because my 21st Century subframed, Lateral Dynamic 3 link rear end '68 is creeping ever closer to assembly.)

I don't think so, but I'm keeping the front bar just in case. Fine tuning a suspension is a tricky deal. I will be going from 550 front springs to 500 to see if I can get more weight transfer in braking, but that might make the bigger bar work better.

As they say, "Your results may vary" lol

[Steve1968LS2]

All the parts for my front suspension upgrade have arrived. This should fix many of the shortcomings of the factory C5 deal.

ZR1 type wheel bearings, better lower HOWE ball joints, Pfadt bushings, and Raceseng Design drop uprights.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/258uyq8-1.jpg

I still need to confirm but it looks like street price on the uprights will be in the $1500 per pair range. While that sounds pricey (and it is a stack of cash) it's pretty cheap compared to other alternatives on the market. Go price some LG arms if you want real sticker shock. lol

[Krazed]

Very nice Steve! Glad to hear it's all coming together more or less smoothly.

I do have a question though, what type of rear suspension is that? I can't say I've ever seen it before your car.

[Damn True]

Lateral Dynamics 3-Link

[Steve1968LS2]

The swaybar has seven adjustment points that range from 250 to just over 700 lbs. Right now it's set around 600 lbs so we can get a bit more rotation.

I made a world of difference. The car feels very smooth and "drama free". My runs were a lot different to watch than the other cars. Now I just need more seat time.

Next will be changing from 310/550 springs to 275/500 springs. This will help the car transfer weight better from the rear to the front during braking.

I was pretty happy with my driving.. I started off wide to the line and then got pretty good at staying on it. Now I just need a bit more throttle and quicker brakes.

Video:
ez_OpnltbsQ

[Damn True]

Did a bleed help the pedal at all?

[Steve1968LS2]

Did a bleed help the pedal at all?

No, I'm convinced there's a problem in the master. On the street it's fine but I'm getting severe knock-back like symptoms now that I didn't have at Optima.

That means I have to "double pump" the brakes after a hard turn. I will be replacing it soon.

[Steve1968LS2]

Burn out for the victory lap..

Who's that in my smoke??? Could that be Nick Licata???

;)

Oh, he is SO coming for me....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/5tt8w6-1.jpg

[dropit69]

cool pic Steve ..noticed the kids face in the golf cart=priceless..lol

[CruizinKev]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/homerdrool-1.gif

[Steve1968LS2]

My new drop steering arms arrived today so that means I can proceed with the front end rebuild.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/1f7b0l-1.jpg

These were made by Jim Pettigrew. He's the engineer that designed the 21st Century subframe I'm using. Even though the company is gone he can still make the parts and the frame.

Anyways, he was nice enough to jig me up a set with the right 1.25" drop.

Thanks Jim!

[srh3trinity]

Steve,
Just curious, but why does Penny have 1967 mirrors? I have always wondered that. Were there some 68's that came with the round side view mirrors?
Nevertheless, it is always fun to follow your updates. Plenty of good pictures, good engineering and success on the track.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
Just curious, but why does Penny have 1967 mirrors? I have always wondered that. Were there some 68's that came with the round side view mirrors?
Nevertheless, it is always fun to follow your updates. Plenty of good pictures, good engineering and success on the track.

Simple.. I don't like the rectangular '68 mirrors and feel the '67 mirrors have more "soul".. especially with the bowtie emblems.

I have '67 RS tail lights as well.. but don't tell anyone.. lol

[79-TA]

Simple.. I don't like the rectangular '68 mirrors and feel the '67 mirrors have more "soul".. especially with the bowtie emblems.

I have '67 RS tail lights as well.. but don't tell anyone.. lol

Penny's different rear lenses prevented me from even noticing that.

Then there was the autox announcer's beef with '69 cowl hoods on other first gens . . .

[Steve1968LS2]

Penny's different rear lenses prevented me from even noticing that.

Then there was the autox announcer's beef with '69 cowl hoods on other first gens . . .

Chad just likes stiring things up.. best announcer they've ever had.. some of his comments were hilarious..

Here's a cool video David Pozzi took. Not my best run, but the car look pretty smoot from ground level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wskkMsGF6ek

wskkMsGF6ek

[Steve1968LS2]

Time to dig into the front suspension.. first up is rebuilding the control arms..

Pete over at Competition Specialties hooked me up with a set of C6 control arms so that my car wouldn't have to be down as long. Same geometry, but the lower arms are much nicer than C5 in terms of how they look.

Getting the bushings out is a PITA though.

First, cut off one flange.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/xubnq-1.jpg

Fire in the hole! Easiest (but messy) way is to burn them out.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/2dhacsl-1.jpg

I took the time to smooth out all the casting marks on the uppers, clean up the lowers and have them powder coated in silver. This way they will still look aluminum but won't stain and oxidize so easily. Here they are laid out with my parts from Pfadt Racing.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/25f7mdd-1.jpg

The key to this project.. Loctite 638. It's expensive but it will secure the bushings in the control arms.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/330hj5j-1.jpg

The 638 is applied to the inner surface of the control arm and to the bushing sleeve. Just be sure not to get it anywhere you don't want it. You have 5-min of working time.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/2nsw9hx-1.jpg

Then slide in the new bushing, wipe off any excess, and let set. After a few hours I then added the spiral lock to further secure the bushing.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/e64ug2-1.jpg

Wednesday we should be putting all of this new stuff on the car and then getting an alignment. Plan to set camber at -1.5

[bwhinnen]

I've just fallen in love all over again with Penny!

Some very tidy steering there Steve!

[T_Raven]

Looking good steve. I'll be using C5 control arms so it's good to know the C6s are the same geometry. I may have to try those bushings some day too.

[Motown 454]

Those look indestructable now.

[rat_rod_russell]

David and Steve

Thanks for posting all the info about the rear sway bar build. I'm working on a 38 ford pickup for a customer and he wanted a rear sway bar and some other work to the front. I talked to the guys at Hotchkis and found that the first gen Camaro bar is about the only thing narrow enough for this project. So I had a plate laser cut for the extension. This ones lighter in the rear so I'm going to grind the end down to use the original hole but keep my .75" hole to hole length. The guy doesn't know what he wants so this is one more way to give me some leeway when where done.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/s1-1.jpg (http://www.hotrodjim.com/immages/trifive/C4/v5_demo/l-1.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/s2-1.jpg (http://www.hotrodjim.com/immages/trifive/C4/v5_demo/l-2.jpg)
(Click to enlarge)

Anyone who wants the .dxf file to have some cut out near you just ask.

Thanks again for sharing all this information.

[Mkelcy]

My new drop steering arms arrived today so that means I can proceed with the front end rebuild.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/1f7b0l-1.jpg

These were made by Jim Pettigrew. He's the engineer that designed the 21st Century subframe I'm using. Even though the company is gone he can still make the parts and the frame.

Anyways, he was nice enough to jig me up a set with the right 1.25" drop.

Thanks Jim!

What necessitated the drop steering arms?

[Steve1968LS2]

What necessitated the drop steering arms?

The dropped spindles..

Since the arms are bolted to the hub area, and the hub area is moved up 1.25" then the arm must move down 1.25" to make up the diff and keep the tie rod parallel with the lower control arm.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/fyl46q-1.jpg

[Mkelcy]

The dropped spindles..

Since the arms are bolted to the hub area, and the hub area is moved up 1.25" then the arm must move down 1.25" to make up the diff and keep the tie rod parallel with the lower control arm.

So nothing wrong with the basic geometry of the 21st Century subframe, simply a change necessitated by the other changes you're making.

[T_Raven]

I just wanted to share a thought I had. It seems like every time some one posts a thread about building their own front subframe some one always tells them to just buy a kit from some one. While most aftermarket subs are great products, this thread is a prime example that just because a pro fabricator built it doesn't mean it's ideal for every car. If a person has the skill to design a suspension for their specific car then chances are pretty good they'll get better results that just buying a subframe and doing their best to adjust some one else's design to fit their car.

[Mkelcy]

I just wanted to share a thought I had. It seems like every time some one posts a thread about building their own front subframe some one always tells them to just buy a kit from some one. While most aftermarket subs are great products, this thread is a prime example that just because a pro fabricator built it doesn't mean it's ideal for every car. If a person has the skill to design a suspension for their specific car then chances are pretty good they'll get better results that just buying a subframe and doing their best to adjust some one else's design to fit their car.

I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread. It seems to me Steve is simply fine tuning his suspension (much like you tune an engine) to make it better at what he wants it to do, rather than "adjust[ing] some one else's design to fit [his] car." So far as I'm aware he's done nothing to either the LD 3 link or the 21st Century subframe other than change some of the bolt-on peripherals.

[Steve1968LS2]

So nothing wrong with the basic geometry of the 21st Century subframe, simply a change necessitated by the other changes you're making.

Nope.. the sub is fine. This is only to offset the drop spindles.

And the drop spindles aren't even there to make my car lower, just to increase my shock travel.

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread. It seems to me Steve is simply fine tuning his suspension (much like you tune an engine) to make it better at what he wants it to do, rather than "adjust[ing] some one else's design to fit [his] car." So far as I'm aware he's done nothing to either the LD 3 link or the 21st Century subframe other than change some of the bolt-on peripherals.

Correct, I've nothing to the LD setup except add a rear sway bar. The 21st centruy frame is great, just tuning it to my specific goals. technically I can now say I have C6 front suspesion, but since it's geometrically the same that's just a marketing deal.

Besides, when cars are "done" they arn't as much fun.

[HectorM52]

I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread. It seems to me Steve is simply fine tuning his suspension (much like you tune an engine) to make it better at what he wants it to do, rather than "adjust[ing] some one else's design to fit [his] car." So far as I'm aware he's done nothing to either the LD 3 link or the 21st Century subframe other than change some of the bolt-on peripherals.
It's funny you start with "I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread." You assume that's what HE got from the thread. And it's probably not.

I think he's bringing a little "baggage" from other threads where someone asks about a subframe then gets a response about purchasing a certain prefabbed sub.

I have no opinion either way I just wanted to point that out. The biggest issue is that none of these three posts belong in this thread at all!!! Sorry Steve, proceed with the awesomeness!!

[T_Raven]

The biggest issue is that none of these three posts belong in this thread at all!!!

My bad. All I was getting at was that to get the geometry he wanted at the ride height he wanted, steve had to buy very expensive spindles and have new steering arms fabbed. Where as if a person built their own perhaps they could use the factory spindles and adjust the mount points on the frame to get the geometry they want. I'm not saying the aftermarket ones are crap and everyone should build their own. But like I said, just because pro fabricators made it doesn't mean it's going to be perfect for everyone. Just food for thought for those who would like to build their own, and for all those who say they should just buy one.:)

[MuscleRodz]

My bad. All I was getting at was that to get the geometry he wanted at the ride height he wanted, steve had to buy very expensive spindles and have new steering arms fabbed. Where as if a person built their own perhaps they could use the factory spindles and adjust the mount points on the frame to get the geometry they want. I'm not saying the aftermarket ones are crap and everyone should build their own. But like I said, just because pro fabricators made it doesn't mean it's going to be perfect for everyone. Just food for thought for those who would like to build their own, and for all those who say they should just buy one.:)
Steve did not have to do anything he is doing. Car was working fine for how 99.5% of the people would drive their car. Steve is in that 0.5% that is looking for every tenth of a second out of Penny to keep it on top of the podium. It is the price you pay to play. Incremental gains with exponential dollars.

[T_Raven]

Steve did not have to do anything he is doing. Car was working fine for how 99.5% of the people would drive their car. Steve is in that 0.5% that is looking for every tenth of a second out of Penny to keep it on top of the podium. It is the price you pay to play. Incremental gains with exponential dollars.

Dude.....to get what HE wanted he had to change parts right? I'm not saying Steve should have done anything different. Just that this thread is an example that aftermarket parts will sometimes need changes to suit someone's needs. And if someone can make their own parts to suit their needs and spend less in the process, then good for them. And I'm sorry for bringing "baggage" from other threads lol.

[T_Raven]

technically I can now say I have C6 front suspesion, but since it's geometrically the same that's just a marketing deal.

Besides, when cars are "done" they arn't as much fun.

So I see in the previous pics that the c6 LCAs look different and you said the geometry is the same. But even with the same geometry are there differences with the other parts between the C5 and C6? thanks

[Payton King]

were in business. The standard frame that Steve has and the 1 inch drop version which I have. At the time Steve did not want the drop version because it required raising the tunnel for trans clearance...which he ended up doing anyway.

It sounds as if you are going to build you own frame, which is a huge undertaking and I commend you on that...but I think you will find after it is complete you will be fine tuning and making adjustments to get it just right. Just because something works on paper does not mean it transfers well. How many race teams have the best of everything including engineering and still end up testing and changing things in their design?

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

Just like stated, Geometry is the same on C5 and C6 stuff including the uprights. I believe the C6 upright has a little more beef where the brakes mount.

[rat_rod_russell]

Just like stated, Geometry is the same on C5 and C6 stuff including the uprights. I believe the C6 upright has a little more beef where the brakes mount.

Upper A arms too?

[GMracer]

Looking badass!

[rat_rod_russell]

Time to dig into the front suspension.. first up is rebuilding the control arms..

Pete over at Competition Specialties hooked me up with a set of C6 control arms so that my car wouldn't have to be down as long. Same geometry, but the lower arms are much nicer than C5 in terms of how they look.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/25f7mdd-1.jpg



That answers my question
-Russell

[lt1chevelle]

looking good steve, do u plan on taking the car to the show at the end of may for the autocross in pleseanton

[AButler]

Does Bad Penny ever get dirty???? Great looking suspension though.


Pics of finished rear suspension:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/qns506-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/34sfr60-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

Yep, Penny gets dirty all the time.. I just keep her tidy :)

[JustinB]

Steve, just noticed the black CA license plate and was wondering where in the heck did you get that. Did you paint it or is there someone out there that makes them? Ever get hassled for it?

[Steve1968LS2]

www.licenseplates.tv

Nope, not hassled.. it's my real number and all.

My friend has been running it on his '65 Buick for years with no problems .. your results may vary ;)

[67speedfreak]

Steve,

Check your PM's

Thanks

[Steve1968LS2]

PM checking will happen today.. I haven't really been home much in the last week.. I was busy doing this:

The new ZR1 style hubs are way stronger looking than my old C5/c6 hubs. The flanges are much thicker and the extra material was added to the back of the flange. Bolts up exactly the same. It comes with studs, but I pressed them out to add ARP versions. A highly reccomended part.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/ju945w-1.jpg

Here you can see the Raceseng spindle compared to a stock C5 unit. Much stronger and more rigid, especially in the brake mounting area. There's also a degree of neg camber built in and of course the 1.25" drop.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/9j3h3d-1.jpg

The lower spherical bushings were easy to install. We also ditched the eccentric bolts with Pfadt's camber kit. This way under hard cornering the alignment wont change. The kit comes with serveral sets of plates.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/jqhzcw-1.jpg

The uppers were bolt-in so long as you have a lathe, bridgeport mill, saws-all, grinder, dremel and a host of other tools. But they are in and should work great. To be fair there was nothing wrong with the parts, just had to work to get them bolted to the 21st Century subframe.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/25u6ypv-1.jpg

Here's the final deal all installed:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/2py6wk6-1.jpg

Now for the bad news... Since the drop spindles lower the lower CA in relation to the wheel I can no longer run my 17" wheels, so I will have to get a set of 18" track wheels. Oh well. I also had to clearance the lower control arms just a touch so the 18's wont rub under very hard turning. I will also be adding some stops that Kyle at DSE reccomended to limit the turning just a touch.

The good news: Even with my car lower the lower control arms are now perfectly parralel to the gound and the car feels amazing to drive. In my opinion it has the nicest most crisp and responsive steering I've ever experiences. The ride feels about the same, but I'm sure it's a touch more harsh over hard transitions. To me it's worth it for the trade off.

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh, and HUGE thanks to David Pozzi for stopping by and helping with the install.. that guy is always the "smartest man in the room" in regards to this stuff. He also did a pretty good alignment using a tape measure and some straight edges...

Thanks Dave.. you're the official crew cheif of Bad Penny.. :thumbsup:

[GMracer]

Good god Steve! looks amazing, everyday I wish I went with c5 suspension components up front and this does NOT help. But keep it up, can't wait to see some action shots.

[bwhinnen]

Looks great Steve! Amazing work by all involved!

[Mkelcy]

The uppers were bolt-in so long as you have a lathe, bridgeport mill, saws-all, grinder, dremel and a host of other tools. But they are in and should work great. To be fair there was nothing wrong with the parts, just had to work to get them bolted to the 21st Century subframe.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/25u6ypv-1.jpg



Steve: What was the issue with the upper swivel bushings and the 21st Century frame?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve: What was the issue with the upper swivel bushings and the 21st Century frame?

The 21st subframe uses slotted inserts. Since these parts are used more in race applications they have a 1/2" hole in them. To use this hole 21st enlarged the holes in the factory dog bones to 1/2". The parts from Pfadt use the factory 10mm hole. BUT, there's not enough material on the Pfady dogbones to drill them out to 1/2".

So, we milled up a set of sleevs and reduced the holes in the slotted inserts to 10mm. This let us use 10mm 10.9 bolts to attach the new dogbones to the 21st frame.

[Mkelcy]

Thanks. It's nice having all the research and heavy lifting done by someone else. :)

Now, if you'd only started with stock rear frame rails I wouldn't have to think at all.

[Payton King]

That last pic is the money shot for sure. Looks great!

I have a number of questions for you. I will let you get caught up and I will give you a buzz.

How big of a difference in grip at the autocross from the R888 to the Kuhmos. I thought the R888's needed some heat to work.

[barraza]

Small hijack:
Care to share some tech on what it takes to get such good closeup suspension shots?

[dipren443]

Small hijack:
Care to share some tech on what it takes to get such good closeup suspension shots?

Steve always has some nice shots!! What kind of gear you shooting with Steve? Lighting? Using a macro for some of these shots I assume?

[Motown 454]

They look sweet Steve, like a work of art.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve always has some nice shots!! What kind of gear you shooting with Steve? Lighting? Using a macro for some of these shots I assume?

I typically use a Canon 40D with either a 10-22 wide angle lense or my 28-135 IS lens (macro). I always shoot tech with a tripod and use a slower shutter speed so I can strobe a flash around the image. This gets rid of harsh shadows. For each of those shots I typically take 5 to 8 shots of different "exposures" which is called bracketing.

By messing with the f-stop I can "kill" the background and make it out of focus. This causes the eye to focus on the subject and not get distracted with background.

[Kenova]

Here's the final deal all installed:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/2py6wk6-1.jpg


It doesn't get much more hard core than that.
Yep, I'm jealous.

Ken

[dipren443]

It doesn't get much more hard core than that.
Yep, I'm jealous.

Ken

With ya on this Ken... Pure, unadulterated pornography right there. Surprised it wasn't censored by my work server.

[Steve1968LS2]

Thanks guys.. I'm very happy with the outcome.. I really can't think of anything to improve in terms of suspension outside of some further fine tuning (springs/sway bars)..

The comments I got at the autocross was that the car was very smooth and "un-dramatic"...

The only times faster than what I turned in were done by other people in my car. lol

Here's a shot Licata got. Mary would be proud that I'm looking far ahead and not "living in the moment" :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/2euo5ug-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

And some video from the mini Camaro Performers Editors Challenge

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-Performers-Editors_645084.htm

[joe440]

man, that suspension is like an art peice, the whole car looks great as always

[LateNight72]

Looks good Steve. :twothumbs




Let me know we you want to get rid of your old knuckles & hubs... :)

[86regalss]

that is awesome. Will i get in trouble for having a license plate from the wrong year on my car? I want a black plate for my black car. I guess the '80's sunrise plate would be cool also. The new ca plates are boring.

[HectorM52]

And some video from the mini Camaro Performers Editors Challenge



http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-Performers-Editors_645084.htm
Video was removed???

[Steve1968LS2]

Try it now...

[67SSDan]

Can I have this car please? I'll pay for shipping and everything. LOL

Love it man. Thing looks awesome.

[Kenova]

And some video from the mini Camaro Performers Editors Challenge

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-Performers-Editors_645084.htm
So, Steve, are you and Nick taking the show on the road?
" Match race Autocross, coming to a track near you! " lol

Ken

[Steve1968LS2]

So, Steve, are you and Nick taking the show on the road?
" Match race Autocross, coming to a track near you! " lol

Ken

lol.. yea, like the circus.. a LOT like the circus.. ;)


I hope to have Penny up at Pleasenton end of May. Right now I'm working up some new track rollers. People cry too much when I run the R888s. ;)

[larknut]

I hope to have Penny up at Pleasenton end of May.

Glad to hear it! Maybe I will get to meet you this time around.

[Bow Tie 67]

Steve are the swaybar end-links 1/2" ?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve are the swaybar end-links 1/2" ?

Yep.. pretty beefy.


Glad to hear it! Maybe I will get to meet you this time around.

Yea, unless it looks like tons of rain, or I break something, I should be there.

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's a cool shot I was sent.. love that color in the sun.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/1t60id-1.jpg

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

thats a GREAT shot.

[Kenova]

thats a GREAT shot.
X's two. Makes me week in the knees.

Ken

[Steve1968LS2]

M4sUpO80yqw

[Motown 454]

Hi Steve sweet ride. On a corse like this Is it, you select one gear for the whole corse because there are no long straight aways?

[thedodgeboys]

very nice car!

[Steve1968LS2]

Hi Steve sweet ride. On a corse like this Is it, you select one gear for the whole corse because there are no long straight aways?

I start in first and then quickly go to second and stay there... I find the car is "smoother" this way and I still have plenty of torque to work the back end around if I want to.

Mary likes to drive the car in first, but there's so much torque the the throttle is more like an "on/off" switch rather than a "dimmer" switch.

I think I will try her way the next time out since most seem to just stay in first the whole way.

[RSX302]

Mary likes to drive the car in first, but there's so much torque the the throttle is more like an "on/off" switch rather than a "dimmer" switch.

And that's why she's fast! control on the edge:1st:one needs to find Ten-10th, but not go over. she obviously does well at that.

[Y-TRY]

I'm a big fan of your car and can't imagine anything you'd require to improve it. I guess that's just the sickness we all share. I'm inspired/jealous/motivated/discouraged by Bad Penny and I love it!

[RSX302]

By the way Steve...Looking Good!

[Steve1968LS2]

And that's why she's fast! control on the edge:1st:one needs to find Ten-10th, but not go over. she obviously does well at that.

I'm sure that's it.. it's takes quite a bit more skill to tame the car in 1st, but the reward is far more snappy acceleration and better engine braking.

I made up for this some by being smooth.. next time I will try first.. what's the worst that could happen??? lol


I'm a big fan of your car and can't imagine anything you'd require to improve it. I guess that's just the sickness we all share. I'm inspired/jealous/motivated/discouraged by Bad Penny and I love it!

Well, she needs an oil cooler.. and a proper tach. I also have to finish my fire system. I like to think of Penny as a work in progress and so long as I can figure out ways to eek out bit more performance I will do them. There's no fun in being done. However, I really don't know what else, besides tuning, I could do to the suspension.

Thanks for the comment. I'm blessed with many smart people to hang around with and others who simply inspire me to try harder. Penny is truly a team effort.


By the way Steve...Looking Good!

Thanks, coming from someone with such a nice car that means a lot.

[DEIGuy38]

My favorite 68 of all time. IMO the car looks the best with the solid color hood and the 18" wheels. I can't wait to see it at the Pleasanton autocross event.

[Mkelcy]

Steve: I was looking at this post again https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showpost.php?p=512517&postcount=141 showing the Pfadt bushings and camber kit and had a question.

The Pfadt site indicates that you need to replace the UCA bolts with studs and then use traditional alignment shims to set caster (and fine tune camber) using their camber kit. Can you also do both just by using the plates for the LCAs?

[David Pozzi]

Mike,
The lower plates will get you close but you should aim for too much neg camber with them, then add a small amount of top shims to reduce neg camber and get caster where you want it.

Put your lower A arm bolts in from the front, so you can remove them when the headers are in the car.

We put bolts in the top holes, no studs.
The more I'm around this subframe, the more I like it.
David

[Mkelcy]

Mike,
The lower plates will get you close but you should aim for too much neg camber with them, then add a small amount of top shims to reduce neg camber and get caster where you want it.

Put your lower A arm bolts in from the front, so you can remove them when the headers are in the car.

We put bolts in the top holes, no studs.
The more I'm around this subframe, the more I like it.
David

David: Thanks for the reply. I installed the LCA's using the stock eccentrics today, and realized that the alignment probably could change under heavy loading. Then I saw the Pfadt kit wanted studs for the UCAs and I thought "uh oh." But if the bolts work with the alignment shims that's great.

I was lucky enoguh to have my headers on before I installed the LCAs, so yes, put the bolts in from the rear and they'll be there until you pull the headers.

Do you have any thought on whether using offset slugs for the UCA's might be beneficial - increasing or decreasing camber gain?

[rat_rod_russell]

Mr. Pozzi
I noticed you have the center pivot of the watts link at the bottom adjustment. Would you go lower if you could? why or why not?

[JDP Jordan]

Steve: I was looking at this post again https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showpost.php?p=512517&postcount=141 showing the Pfadt bushings and camber kit and had a question.

The Pfadt site indicates that you need to replace the UCA bolts with studs and then use traditional alignment shims to set caster (and fine tune camber) using their camber kit. Can you also do both just by using the plates for the LCAs?

Hi Mkelcy,

Our Camber kit was designed to use the studs for the UCA. The reason is in racing applications you're constantly changing your alignment for different track conditions as well as other variables. We've gone to studs because the threads into the chassis tend to get stripped when the bolts are constantly pulled in and out; with the stud you're moving the nut on the stud. It basically eliminates issues down the road.

We supply multiple plates for the LCA in our C5/C6 kit, they range from zero notches to 6. You can get pretty close with the lower plates, as David said the shims are there for fine tuning. Another nice thing about the shims is that you can set up your aggressive track alignment using the plates to get you close. The you can add shims to the UCA for a less aggressive street alignment, we usually tape the added shim stack together. When you go to the track and change to sticky tires you simply pull the taped shims out and you're good to go. You will compromise your tow for the street when you do this but it is minimal.

This kit offers a lot of benefits including holding your alignment in place, the factory eccentrics tend to slip under heavy load when using sticky tires or when you hit pot holes! :doh:

Please feel free to call or email us anytime, we're always happy to help out with set up questions.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888-972-2464

[Mkelcy]

Jordan: Thanks for the information. I'm in the process of (I hope) completing a '68 Camaro this year that uses the same front subframe (and rear suspension) as Bad Penny, so I may well be calling you for some front end suspension parts.

[JDP Jordan]

PM checking will happen today.. I haven't really been home much in the last week.. I was busy doing this:

The new ZR1 style hubs are way stronger looking than my old C5/c6 hubs. The flanges are much thicker and the extra material was added to the back of the flange. Bolts up exactly the same. It comes with studs, but I pressed them out to add ARP versions. A highly reccomended part.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/ju945w-1.jpg

Here you can see the Raceseng spindle compared to a stock C5 unit. Much stronger and more rigid, especially in the brake mounting area. There's also a degree of neg camber built in and of course the 1.25" drop.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/9j3h3d-1.jpg

The lower spherical bushings were easy to install. We also ditched the eccentric bolts with Pfadt's camber kit. This way under hard cornering the alignment wont change. The kit comes with serveral sets of plates.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/jqhzcw-1.jpg

The uppers were bolt-in so long as you have a lathe, bridgeport mill, saws-all, grinder, dremel and a host of other tools. But they are in and should work great. To be fair there was nothing wrong with the parts, just had to work to get them bolted to the 21st Century subframe.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/25u6ypv-1.jpg

Here's the final deal all installed:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/2py6wk6-1.jpg

Now for the bad news... Since the drop spindles lower the lower CA in relation to the wheel I can no longer run my 17" wheels, so I will have to get a set of 18" track wheels. Oh well. I also had to clearance the lower control arms just a touch so the 18's wont rub under very hard turning. I will also be adding some stops that Kyle at DSE reccomended to limit the turning just a touch.

The good news: Even with my car lower the lower control arms are now perfectly parralel to the gound and the car feels amazing to drive. In my opinion it has the nicest most crisp and responsive steering I've ever experiences. The ride feels about the same, but I'm sure it's a touch more harsh over hard transitions. To me it's worth it for the trade off.

Steve,

It turned out AWESOME! The Orange looks good on Bad Penny! Hopefully we'll run into you at some point, I want to get a close look at the car! It's SWEET!

[Steve1968LS2]

Ok, three new projects to get done before she ship back east for the summer..

1. T56 Magnum
2. AFCO radiator with built in oil cooler
3. STACK gauge package

Will also finish my fire system, finally do my lightweight audio system and get real alignment.

I've been working with Classic Motorsports (Classic Chevy 5-speed) to try out the new T56 Magnum (TR-6060).

The first thing we wanted to find out was how it differed from the traditional T56 in regards to installation. I imagine that this was about the first swap done since Tremec just recieved these a couple of weeks ago.

The Magnum is a LOT like the T56, but there are quite a few small changes. A couple of hte larger one is the placement of shifter and the overall length.

The shifter is about 2.5 inches forward, so I will need to rework my shift handle to keep the ergonomics right. The trans is few inches longer, so my driveshaft is out getting shortened.

Nonetheless, contrary to what many people thought there was no need to relocated or modify the trans crossmember.

We did need to mill out a couple of places on the Quicktime bellhousing, but I've been told by Classic Motorsports that these modifications will intergrated into future kits. Still, if you have existing parts you will need to make the mods.

The best thing about this trans is the gear ratios.. I can finally ditch that damn .50 6th gear without having cruddy 1st ratios...

All the plugs are identical although some are in different spots. The skip-ship solenoid is gone (although the spot for it is still there) and the VSS signal plug is on the other side of the trans. The reverse lock-out solenoid has been flipped 180-degrees. These last two changes means we have to slighly modify (ie. lengthen) the harness.

Other than that the initial install went very smooth. There will be a story on this in an upcomming issue of Camaro Performers, but ask any questions and I will try to answer them. Oh, and big thanks to the guys at Classic Motorsports for making this so easy.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/207szfq-1.jpg

[67speedfreak]

Penny looks soo bad ass !!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

Finally had a chance to shoot a "before/after" deal on the lower control arm angle.

Much improved with the Raceseng drop spindles and the steering arm reworked by Jim Pettigrew (guy who designed the front subframe).

Before:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/14ebcxw-1.jpg

After:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/2rh04m8-1.jpg

[claytonisbob]

So the car is now a bit lower? How much ground clearance do you have?

Looks good btw!

[Steve1968LS2]

So the car is now a bit lower? How much ground clearance do you have?

Looks good btw!

It's a "bit" lower, maybe a quarter inch. The main goal was to have the car at a nice stance and still have the lower control angle right.

I have quite a bit of clearance.. the lowest part of the car is where the exhaust dips under the trans cross member.

[Bjkadron]

NICE! looking good! Any noticeable difference on how it drives?

[CraigMorrison]

Steve - Have you ever done a retail tally on all the freebies/deep magazine deals on this car? Those spindles, bearings and bushings must cost the normal guy $$$$!

Looks great BTW - Can't wait to get a report on how those uprights work out.

[compos mentis]

These ingenious changes are something I've only seen on maybe one other persons car, but that was a special case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46bQNssQWQ&feature=related

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve - Have you ever done a retail tally on all the freebies/deep magazine deals on this car? Those spindles, bearings and bushings must cost the normal guy $$$$!

Looks great BTW - Can't wait to get a report on how those uprights work out.

No, I don't look at reciepts.. it's too scary. lol

The bearings arn't much more than the inferior C5/c6 units.. the spindles are about $1500 retail. Considering the stock spindles are at least $500 new from GM that isn't a huge amount more considering what they bring to the party.

So far the stuff has worked out great. The car felt killer on the autocross at Del Mar.

[Shiro666]

Wow.

I want to make out with those spindles.

Perhaps it's just me, but I imagine most exotic car owners that have shared a track with Penny have reoccuring nightmares of Mary Pozzi running them down like a Cheetah chasing a toddler.

Looks boss, Steve.

[Steve1968LS2]

Thanks to the guys at Prodigy Customs and the folks over at Forgeline Penny now has a replacement set of wheels since the 17s no longer fit.

Now I have to decide if these will be my "show" wheels or my "track" wheels.

They are 18x12 and 18x10 SP03s with a stepped lip. Finish is gunmetal centers (and inner hoops), brushed outer hoops (clear coated) and titanium fasteners.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/y0p5-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/1582m94-1.jpg

[zbugger]

My lord... I can't wait to see those on the car. They're beautiful.

[Krazed]

I would put those on the fireplace mantle........

and then take them out for a drive once in a while.

[Steve1968LS2]

Test fitted them on the car today... happy to report that Forgeline nailed the offsets. Tomorrow I mount some tires. (BFG KDWs)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/fnhe0x-1.jpg

Close up of the front. We all voted at BOS and these will be the new "show" daily wheels and the WC3s will be the new "track" wheels.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/2hef1ww-1.jpg

[zbugger]

Those look very good on the car. Penny just keeps getting better as the time passes. Is that the SEMA hood on the wall in the background?

[Steve1968LS2]

Ok, it's cool to say "yea, the car doesn't even have a stereo." but in reality it sucks, especially on long drives.

I found I was always bringing my MP3 player and using headphones.

So, I've decided to add a small system.

There will be 4x6 Polk speakers in the kicks and one 6x9 in the center of the dash (where the factory speaker would be.

There will also be a 4x100 compact Alpine amp under the passengers seat, but there won't be a head unit. Instead the system will be ran off a new iPod touch.

The iPod will be mounted in the new center section that will house the small STACK gauges. We are recessing it into the panel and it should look pretty good.

Here's the stuff:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/mrq0bo-1.jpg

[69Nova]

As usual the cars looking great Steve. How does the Ipod work as the head unit? Is there an app for that or something?

[Steve1968LS2]

As usual the cars looking great Steve. How does the Ipod work as the head unit? Is there an app for that or something?

It just sends audio to the amp. No AM/FM/CD.. just what's loaded on the pod.

You do need a PAC-LC1 to control the amp but it's just a small little knob. The touchscreen will play the audio.

There are also some cool accelerometer apps that I've found, should be fun.

[Steve1968LS2]

Those look very good on the car. Penny just keeps getting better as the time passes. Is that the SEMA hood on the wall in the background?

Yep, but this year she is getting an SS hood and I might try to make the "ice cube trays" functional.

BOS had a real GM SS hood out back so I thought "what the heck".

[Krazed]

Oh yeah! Love the wheels Steve! I was looking at a set of those for the Barracuda. I think it would look killer with a black car...

Wise choice on speakers and amp as well.

Are those little steel boxes ontop of the 6x9 to hold the other speakers in the kick panels?

PS: You really love the step lip don't you? :D

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh yeah! Love the wheels Steve! I was looking at a set of those for the Barracuda. I think it would look killer with a black car...

Wise choice on speakers and amp as well.

Are those little steel boxes ontop of the 6x9 to hold the other speakers in the kick panels?

PS: You really love the step lip don't you? :D

I got the speaker boxes here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52267

Yep, I'm a stepped lip kinda guy....

[cmraman]

It just sends audio to the amp. No AM/FM/CD.. just what's loaded on the pod.

You do need a PAC-LC1 to control the amp but it's just a small little knob. The touchscreen will play the audio.

There are also some cool accelerometer apps that I've found, should be fun.

you mean Dynolicious....

http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/6439156/hard-driving/iphone-app-for-gearheads/index.html

[Steve1968LS2]

you mean Dynolicious....

http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/6439156/hard-driving/iphone-app-for-gearheds/index.html

Nope, different one..

But, I just bought that one. Can't wait to try them out.

[Bjkadron]

How much is all this audio stuff gonna weigh?

[Steve1968LS2]

How much is all this audio stuff gonna weigh?

Don't know.. but I will weigh it. The amp will go on the passenger's side where I need a couple pounds anyways.

Three speakers, and iPod and one small amp isn't gonna kill me. After all, it's not a race car :)

[Vegas69]

It may just speed you up. I ran my best time at the autocross with a little Mother by Danzig blaring through my speakers. Pumped me up.

[Krazed]

After all, it's not a race car :)

You can keep telling yourself that, but something tells me a big part of you refuses to believe that.

I've seen your pictures and heard stories! :)

[Payton King]

Limp Bizkit to auto cross. "Rollin' (air raid vehicle)"

Wheels are outstanding! Looking forward to seeing all of this new stuff come together.

Where did you get your front studs again?

[cmraman]

Nope, different one..

But, I just bought that one. Can't wait to try them out.
Subie dynoed after the tune I uploaded into it and It made 216 whp. I didn't think that was bad with a stock turbo motor and a Stage 1 tune. It is only about 5-8 whp less than an 09 STI. So now that I have a number, I can compare how the dynolicious stacks up

check out this video on the Dynolicious...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-DFbJQbeSY

[Steve1968LS2]

Limp Bizkit to auto cross. "Rollin' (air raid vehicle)"

Wheels are outstanding! Looking forward to seeing all of this new stuff come together.

Where did you get your front studs again?

same place as the bearings...

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/28_49/products_id/125

[jackfrost]

Steve you piss me off. is there a such thing as too many Forgelines for one guy?

I'm looking forward to the iPod mount. I'd like to do the same in my car with my iPhone, just not sure how to do it and have it be functional & look decent.

[rat_rod_russell]

Cake - The Distance
I have 2 speeding ticks, both to this song.

[oestek]

Steve -

There is a cool radio app that I use on my iPhone, called AOLradio, and it will tune in radio stations from all over the world through the cell network. Where ever there is a decent cell signal I can stream radio from all over the place while driving through the phone and pipe it to my stereo like you're doing. I don't know if it will work through the Touch, however, 'cause that's just a wifi and not cell, right?

[oestek]

And the car is looking killer, btw! :twothumbs

[Twentyover]

I should know this but don't- what does stepped lip mean?

[Bjkadron]

Don't know.. but I will weigh it. The amp will go on the passenger's side where I need a couple pounds anyways.

Three speakers, and iPod and one small amp isn't gonna kill me. After all, it's not a race car :)

Yeah... Tell that to all the Poor/unfortunate/unlucky people that you've annihilated on the autoX and road course. Let me know how it works with all the audio equipment in it.

[Bjkadron]

I should know this but don't- what does stepped lip mean?

It means that the lip of the wheel "steps" towards the center of the wheel before it connects to the center.

you can see it on Steve's wheel

[Steve1968LS2]

Thanks for the installer advice :)

Today Chris at BOS worked on wiring. The STACK stuff is really nice, all the wires are labeled and the instructions seem to be very clear.

Chris built the loom and then hooked up some 12V power to it to check functions.

The center section is off at powder and we're waiting for the Covans dash to arrive. Once we have that everything can be mounted and secured (including the audio stuff).

The red warning light in the picture is telling me I have low oil pressure. The other light is to warn of low fuel. The dash can also display data logger stuff but I already have a Racepack so I didn't get that STACK option.

Also noticed the the new senders are VERY nice as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/akgavp-1.jpg

[David Pozzi]

Steve,
I like that it has a "real" tach and not an LCD one.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
I like that it has a "real" tach and not an LCD one.

Yea, that's what drew me to it as well. Analog is just so much faster to track. Reading takes far too long.

The STACK stuff has a ton of features. Like how the water temp and fuel gauges both have relays that can trigger fans and fuel pumps.

Plus the quality is off the chart.. like the mil-spec connectors..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/or704w-1.jpg

[streetk14]

Hey Steve,
Did you ever get around to installing those steering stops? Just curious as to what/how you were going to do it. I have an AME sub and would like to limit the steering a hair as well.

Also, what do you think about the control arm bushings on the street? I have been looking into replacing the rubber ones in my C5 arms but I just have a problem with poly bushings. I don't want to add too much in the way of vibration to my car/steering but would like to tighten up the front end a bit.

Oh, and do the bushings just tap in and are held with loctite and a clip, or are they a tight press-fit like most bushings?

[dipren443]

Yea, that's what drew me to it as well. Analog is just so much faster to track. Reading takes far too long.

The STACK stuff has a ton of features. Like how the water temp and fuel gauges both have relays that can trigger fans and fuel pumps.

Plus the quality is off the chart.. like the mil-spec connectors..



MMMM, mil spec connectors. I have contemplated making a custom engine harness using Amphenol connectors. Every time I look at the price of them, I start to think otherwise.

[69Nova]

Any pics with the new wheels yet?

[CamaroJesse]

Any pics with the new wheels yet?

X2 on that one.

[ebncrdr]

X2 on that one.

X3 for me!

[Steve1968LS2]

X3 for me!

Wow, the natives are restless!!! lol

Here they are.. sorry for the crappy angle, will get better shots later.

Tomorrow we plumb the oil cooler and switch to a mechanical water pump.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/x26u6h-1.jpg

[CamaroJesse]

Awesome!!!

[Krazed]

I think my heart just skipped a beat. and my wallet shrunk.

[Steve1968LS2]

Mock up of new new center section.. Still need to add some switches and turn signals.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/zules2-1.jpg

[RSX302]

Steve, dunno if you got to the wheel sensor yet, but I used 5 bolts on the Wilwood hub for sensing pick-up. You can choose how many and the more you have the better the speed resolution at low speeds.

Your gonna love this unit...I do

One of these days I'm going to brake down and get the timing beacon for the tracks.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve, dunno if you got to the wheel sensor yet, but I used 5 bolts on the Wilwood hub for sensing pick-up. You can choose how many and the more you have the better the speed resolution at low speeds.

Your gonna love this unit...I do

One of these days I'm going to brake down and get the timing beacon for the tracks.

I think I've found a way to read the VSS off the ECU. I have the sensor as a back-up :)

I don't have any of the data logging since I have the Racepac.. but it looks pretty darn good.

[Steve1968LS2]

Getting closer..

Ditched the elec water pump for a mechanical one. The electric one was sweet for the street, but I think it hurt on the track since it doesn't increase pumping as the RPM goes up. It never gave me any trouble for over 4,000 miles. Decided to try the new Edelbrock unit since it's supposed to have good flow. I will say it fit just like a factory unit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/2vm6b95-1.jpg

Here's the new AFCO radiator in place with the oil cooler lines attached. Because of the new water pump I now have a TON of clearance between the water pump and the radiator fan.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/fdhjqe-1.jpg

Tomorrow she's off to the interior guy, Eric Thornson, to get a little work done. Ship date to Gingerman is the 12th.

[Jagarang]

LOL....BLUE CARPET!! Sweeet!

[Steve1968LS2]

LOL....BLUE CARPET!! Sweeet!

It's worse than that.. it a big rug that says "FORD RACING" with the logo.. lol

Finally got the car fired back up and outside (to go to the interior shop for a little "work" - Eric Thornson in Agora Hills, CA)

This was the first time I could actually stand back and look at the wheels. I must say, I've gotten use to them and really like them now. So much so that I'm sending the WC3s to Forgeline to have the hoops brushed. They I will have zero need for any aluminum polish.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/2zi4j2h-1.jpg

[Larry Callahan]

Mock up of new new center section.. Still need to add some switches and turn signals.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/zules2-1.jpg

Love it!!!!

[Damn True]

That's pretty cool.

I gotta figure out what I'm doing with my dash and center stack. I really like analogue gauges, but the packaging and accuracy of electronic systems like the Stack unit and RacePak are really attractive as well.

[RSX302]

It's worse than that.. it a big rug that says "FORD RACING" with the logo.. lol

Finally got the car fired back up and outside (to go to the interior shop for a little "work" - Eric Thornson in Agora Hills, CA)



My car would have felt right at home with the blue carpet...LOL

How long is it going to be there? Will you be around that area Saturday afternoon? (Little carguy hangout at Kohl's parking lot around 5'ish) Agoura Hills is very close to Larry and I don't ya know. :twothumbs

[Steve1968LS2]

My car would have felt right at home with the blue carpet...LOL

How long is it going to be there? Will you be around that area Saturday afternoon? (Little carguy hangout at Kohl's parking lot around 5'ish) Agoura Hills is very close to Larry and I don't ya know. :twothumbs

She will be at Eric's until next Tuesday.. then we have three days to finish her before the truck picks her up for Gingerman.

Call Eric, I'm sure he would mind if you stopped by. I might be there on Saturday for a bit.

www.thorsencustom.com (http://www.thorsencustom.com)

[RSX302]

She will be at Eric's until next Tuesday.. then we have three days to finish her before the truck picks her up for Gingerman.

Call Eric, I'm sure he would mind if you stopped by. I might be there on Saturday for a bit.

www.thorsencustom.com (http://www.thorsencustom.com)



I could get you those beers I owe you!! :cheers:

[FirstGenZq8]

i saw your assembled center stack picture, it looks awesome!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/906fpj-1.jpg

i have some questions on your set up.

in the below pic, i see a polk mm691, a polk mm461p, an alpine pdx-4.100, and a torque high performance something or other. what does the torque dealy do? not pictured is a PAC-LC1 knob to control the amp. are there any other components i'm missing? where did you mount the PAC-LC1?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/mrq0bo-1.jpg

i get that the iPod touch sends audio to the amp, but what kind of docking station are you using for the iPod touch? in the below pic, i see a black "ring" that goes around the bottom 1/3 of the iPod touch, what is that? got any pics from the back of the center section? thank you for any help you can provide.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/zules2-1.jpg

[LateNight72]

FirstGen,

The "Torque High Performance" is just audio power/ground wiring.

[Motown 454]

Very nice anything you need to know at a glance.

[Bjkadron]

For once I'll admit I was wrong... Beautiful job Steve! If your going to put in a stereo that's the way to do it! Beautiful! Just beautiful.

[evsmotors]

Now that is a race car!