Project Bad Penny - more changes because done is boring

[Ron S]

Would it make you feel better if I told you I paid for them???

Not really. LOL

They just scream, my kids can't go to college now.

They just look fast, correcting the bottoming issues you had in combination with super cool shocks should make a big difference. Its all the fine tuning that cost the crazy money. Ron

[Bow Tie 67]

Steve,
Those look nice! Did they come with bumpstops?

David look closely there is a fat o-ring on the shaft, which is considered a bump stop.

Steve, your wife does not mind car parts on the carpeting?

Will you and Nick be at RTTH?

[John Wright]

Did they provide a dyno of the shocks so you can see how they're valved?I'm positive that they did...these are Penske's....they know their shocks.

[Gitter Dun]

That sounds great Steve, been looking forward to see Bad Penny run.

Any interest in running Hoosiers to see what she really can do?

I have been thinking about searching for another set of rims and throwing Hoosiers on them only because the same '07 Z06 is coming out and runs Hoosiers.

Just double checked, not the same guy, but lots of vette's this time including a '67, and one vette on slicks.

[Steve1968LS2]

ok, how much did they run you? I hear they are cheaper than the previous but looking at that I doubt so.

Where are you testing Steve?

Vince

How much did what cost?

Remember I get "good guy" pricing..

The tires were $300 each and the shocks were just over $500 a corner but didn't include springs

El Toro runways for the test.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
Those look nice! Did they come with bumpstops?

Not sure.. I was dropping the 2010 off at Global West so I could rent a car to get home (so I could drive Penny there this AM)

Just pulled that out real fast and shot a picture. I'm pretty sure we are 15.5 inch in the front and 18" in the rear.

I will know more today when I go to bolt them on.

[Gitter Dun]

OK, your dodging the tire question, but from the looks of it, sounds like you wont be running R888's or Hoosiers

[Steve1968LS2]

OK, your dodging the tire question, but from the looks of it, sounds like you wont be running R888's or Hoosiers

At buttonwillow?

If so then we will be running the PS2 tires (220tw) that we will be stuck with at Optima.. need to get a feel for them.

If I could pick any tire it would be an R888 or a RA1

[Nessumsar]

They look like baby offroad shocks, they're soo cute! haha

Those are pretty impressive Steve, and $500 sound pretty reasonable.

[Steve1968LS2]

They look like baby offroad shocks, they're soo cute! haha

Those are pretty impressive Steve, and $500 sound pretty reasonable.

Yea, that's a good deal.. still hurts in the wallet though.. lol

It's a benefit of my job for sure.. but to be honest I would have paid full price.

The dyno sheet looks pretty impressive, but I'm sworn to secrecy..

[John Wright]

other shocks in thier lineup are over $800 each.....$2500 a set on up

[j-rho]

Yea, that's a good deal.. still hurts in the wallet though.. lol

It's a benefit of my job for sure.. but to be honest I would have paid full price.

The dyno sheet looks pretty impressive, but I'm sworn to secrecy..Impressive how? It's not like an engine where more output is generally better. It is possible to have too much bump/rebound at high or low speeds. The right valving will depend on the chassis, sprung and unsprung weights, spring rates, tires, intended use, etc. It would be interesting to see how Penske (or whoever it was that spec'd the valving) interpreted those parameters and decided on an initial setup for you.

Even if everybody saw the secret valving, it wouldn't necessarily be helpful to them unless their car and use profile was exactly the same as yours, and it was even right for that situation in the first place. Not to mention, the forces and curves might not even be reproducible in a lesser shock.

[strtlegal]

lol, It's kind of funny to finally read about shock valving on a street car, or in this case race/street..

I'm used to talking about shocks with 14" of travel not 4". Especially bypass shocks. To bad Penske doesnt make compression clicker's like King's do now. Have a range of valving that would be a 1-2 street 3-4 street/track 5-6 for race. Allowing the driver a nice soft ride on street mode and clicking it up for race

[Steve1968LS2]

Impressive how? It's not like an engine where more output is generally better. It is possible to have too much bump/rebound at high or low speeds. The right valving will depend on the chassis, sprung and unsprung weights, spring rates, tires, intended use, etc. It would be interesting to see how Penske (or whoever it was that spec'd the valving) interpreted those parameters and decided on an initial setup for you.

Even if everybody saw the secret valving, it wouldn't necessarily be helpful to them unless their car and use profile was exactly the same as yours, and it was even right for that situation in the first place. Not to mention, the forces and curves might not even be reproducible in a lesser shock.

It just that is seems like turning the knobs actually changes the shock. We seen some where the difference between 1 and 10 is almost nothing.

Lighten up.. the "secret" part has nothing to do with Penske.. was just playing race team :)

[Steve1968LS2]

other shocks in thier lineup are over $800 each.....$2500 a set on up

The four-way adjustable shocks for something like a 911 are over $14,000.. so I guess these are almost the "cheap" ones in thier catalog.

Imagine what the F1 shocks run per a corner.. :faint:

Install is going good.. decided to run the fronts inverted to make access to the remotes (for adjustment) easier.

We are running the exact same springs so our testing should give a good comparison to what was on the car.

[Nessumsar]

Remind me, what did you have on there?

[j-rho]

It just that is seems like turning the knobs actually changes the shock. We seen some where the difference between 1 and 10 is almost nothing.

Lighten up.. the "secret" part has nothing to do with Penske.. was just playing race team :)No worries, am getting ready to get started on a build and was interested to see what you guys went with. I've valved a few shocks in my day, but never in a car quite like a Camaro, and wouldn't mind seeing what they provided as a baseline. I'm sure it'll work out great.:cheers:

[DFRESH]

I can't believe you didn't go with something more expensive. What about Penny's image? :spank2:

LOL

Doug

[Steve1968LS2]

I can't believe you didn't go with something more expensive. What about Penny's image? :spank2:

LOL

Doug

The gold plated four-way adjustable Ohlins were on backorder... dammit!

The only way I could afford these is that I snuck into your house, stole a lock of your hair and sold it on eBay for $$$$... I hope you don't feel violated..

[Steve1968LS2]

No worries, am getting ready to get started on a build and was interested to see what you guys went with. I've valved a few shocks in my day, but never in a car quite like a Camaro, and wouldn't mind seeing what they provided as a baseline. I'm sure it'll work out great.:cheers:

No worries..

The guys at Global West are all ex race car guys.. they never share any info (that competative edge and all)

email and I will shoot you over the dyno sheet.. hell, at least you would be able to comprehend it.

[email protected]

Just don't go postin it online.. my competition has spies everywhere.. lol

[Steve1968LS2]

Remind me, what did you have on there?

Bilsteins but they were non-adjustable. Obviously they were good since we won some big races on them but we made changes to the car and rather than have these re-valved we decided to just get some double adjustables and be done with it.

Global West offered to help me and David Pozzi take some measurements and come up with a shock length that would work. We were having a problem where the back shocks would bottom out and we didn't have enough rebound.

We are raising the mounting point on the rear shocks and we inverted the fronts. The remote reservoirs gave us some much need shock travel in addition to thier adjustability.

We are running the same 500/275 Varisprings as we did before. We might change spring rates based on what the shocks tell us.

[compos mentis]

The gold plated four-way adjustable Ohlins were on backorder... dammit!

The only way I could afford these is that I snuck into your house, stole a lock of your hair and sold it on eBay for $$$$... I hope you don't feel violated..

Renner collectibles are big with the polka crowd; congrats on your windfall.

[Steve1968LS2]

New 8300 RM shocks are now installed and ready to rumble.

BIG thanks to the guys at Global West (Doug and Eric) who worked their asses off to get these on and get them on right. The front was pretty straightforward but they still had to make some spacers and shims in thier machine shop.

The rears were a bit more challenging since we were moving to the upper shock mount. Doug didn't like the load that would be placed on the bolt in that location so he and Eric came up with a way to brace the bolt off the roll cage. Double shear for all you nerdy engineers out there. The cans are in the trunk so adjustments will be a snap.

Took an initial guess at the settings and so far I'm pretty happy. The car road a ton nicer on the 40 mile drive home and the 215/91 is one of those plate freeways which can be a real kidney killer. We have tons of compression and rebound and overall everthing looks good.

Rear upper shock mount and canister mount: (Thanks to Cris at JCG for the super cool reservoir mounts.. they worked perfectly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/68cxs3-1.jpg

[69496]

Friggin sweet!!

[Steve1968LS2]

One issue we had was not enough travel (especially bump).. now with the higher mount and reservoir we have tons. It also helped that Doug at GW nailed the shock length.

More than enough.. this is at static ride heigth.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/2hrgzsp-1.jpg

[David Pozzi]

Looks a LOT better Steve!

[Steve1968LS2]

Looks a LOT better Steve!

You can try it out tomorrow.. gotta break in these new tires.

[compos mentis]

Steve, will all this good tech be in a mag also?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve, will all this good tech be in a mag also?

Yea, but the story is going to focus more on shock technology and show why the higher end shocks are so damn expensive.. I've really been fasinated by how these function and the tech involved.

As a side bar I will talk about the install on Penny a bit and more on the 2010 since that's more interesting. After all, any monkey with a banana can install a set of shocks so I will show a few tidbits like the double shear deal and the canister mounting.

But I want to focus more on how the stuff works and how a company like Penske comes up with thier valving and how that ultimatly effects how a car performs.

That was the short answer :)

[compos mentis]

I've really been fasinated by how these function and the tech involved.

But I want to focus more on how the stuff works and how a company like Penske comes up with thier valving and how that ultimatly effects how a car performs.



Thanks for the preview.

I would think it will be a very popular article.

[Cris@JCG]

Steve- Looks good.. I am glad to see that those mounts worked out for the shock reservoir mounts.. We made those to hold Aeromotive fuel filters & now have another use for them..


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_0363-1.jpg




New 8300 RM shocks are now installed and ready to rumble.

BIG thanks to the guys at Global West (Doug and Eric) who worked their asses off to get these on and get them on right. The front was pretty straightforward but they still had to make some spacers and shims in thier machine shop.

The rears were a bit more challenging since we were moving to the upper shock mount. Doug didn't like the load that would be placed on the bolt in that location so he and Eric came up with a way to brace the bolt off the roll cage. Double shear for all you nerdy engineers out there. The cans are in the trunk so adjustments will be a snap.

Took an initial guess at the settings and so far I'm pretty happy. The car road a ton nicer on the 40 mile drive home and the 215/91 is one of those plate freeways which can be a real kidney killer. We have tons of compression and rebound and overall everthing looks good.

Rear upper shock mount and canister mount: (Thanks to Cris at JCG for the super cool reservoir mounts.. they worked perfectly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/68cxs3-1.jpg

[Damn True]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/68cxs3-1.jpg

So what did you do there? Am I seeing a structure added to the top of the aft x-member to allow a raised upper shock mount?

Not sure it even applies to me since your installation is so different from that of James and myself.

[The WidowMaker]

how much room between the watts attachment and your exhaust? that looks to be your high side mount, and it looks like youve contacted it before. any issues or anything youre going to change?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/2hrgzsp-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

how much room between the watts attachment and your exhaust? that looks to be your high side mount, and it looks like youve contacted it before. any issues or anything youre going to change?



Enough room.. the scratches are from taking off and putting on that exhaust section. I'm actually surprised it all fits so well.

[Stupidnewbie]

I think I saw you drive past me a few weeks back. You were going west on Jamboree in Irvine. I love Bad Penny!

[strtlegal]

Steve I think alot of people dont realize how important good shocks are, especially when there valved correctly, there is alot to custom shocks. There is so much cool stuff when it comes messing with shims and pistons, learning about free bleed, it will consum you..lol

But once everything is said and done and its dialed in correctly they can really make your car very well balanced.

To me they are worth every penny....As long as you get to use them and enjoy it..

[Steve1968LS2]

I think I saw you drive past me a few weeks back. You were going west on Jamboree in Irvine. I love Bad Penny!

That would have been me.. our office is on Alton and Jamboree.. The 241 is like my own little autobaun.. except with cops.. ;)

-------------

Thought I would add this to the build thread...

Dialing in the new Penske shocks.. money well spent. Car was good, but too stiff.. Mary and Dave kept driving it and saying "LOOSEN IT UP!!".. at one point Doug at Global West un-did one end of the bar.

Earlier in the tests...

T3YktHDO41Q

Better if you actually go to YouTube and up the resoluting.. top speed on the course was over 70..

Here it is after we added in a little rebound.. seemed to be the right mix.
And if you like your Mary Pozzi a bit more on the "rough" side then this is for you..

PG-13 actually on further review it might be R rated.. lol

prNq9yZGgqE

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve I think alot of people dont realize how important good shocks are, especially when there valved correctly, there is alot to custom shocks. There is so much cool stuff when it comes messing with shims and pistons, learning about free bleed, it will consum you..lol

But once everything is said and done and its dialed in correctly they can really make your car very well balanced.

To me they are worth every penny....As long as you get to use them and enjoy it..

Yea, I'm a firm believer in this now. I was talking to the Penske guy and he was saying it's funny how guys have no problem dropping $5k on a set of wheels but they freak over $3600 for some killer shocks.

In our slalom tests we dropped about 3/10ths of a second.. that's a HUGE amount and we annialated the old magazine test record for a car on street tires (220 tw).. To me that proves that the right shocks can make a big difference (or the right shocks with the right settings)

And a gratuitous beauty shot...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/29y31uc-1.jpg

[strtlegal]

Alot of people sacrifice performance and driveability for looks...Typically to long of a shock with zero bump travel.

Are you running a variable rate coil or linear?

[Steve1968LS2]

Alot of people sacrifice performance and driveability for looks...Typically to long of a shock with zero bump travel.

Are you running a variable rate coil or linear?

Linear.. so far we are at 500 front and 275 rear.. car rides nice.. not Lexus nice, but not bad at all for a "sports car".

We have tons of travel in both bump and droop. Took some doing, but it was worth it.

[strtlegal]

Typically on these cars it's never a bolt in deal unless you want stock travel..The trick things with these shocks is you can make the bodies short and try to cram every bit of shaft and piston into it giving you max up travel. Somtimes using different rod ends can yield a little more travel..

That spring rate isnt bad all, It's actually smart, use a fairly light spring and let the shocks actually work, especially valved shocks. I do know that linear springs can allow you to work with more with your bumpstops and the shock to control the rebound. I'm sure they stepped up your compression a little bit as well.

The biggest trick is to not have to much valving so your shock doesnt hydro lock on you when you hit a nast pothole. You still to have some fluid pass through those piston ports in order to absorb thost types of hits...

Heck there is alot to the pistons inside of these things let alone valving..I know Penske builds some killer stuff but Bilstein makes some trick internal parts to there high end racing shocks..

It's nice to see some one tear into the shocks and fine tune them on a car..You never see this...What to set another trend..

BTW what did you do with your Bilsteins?

[Steve1968LS2]

Typically on these cars it's never a bolt in deal unless you want stock travel..The trick things with these shocks is you can make the bodies short and try to cram every bit of shaft and piston into it giving you max up travel. Somtimes using different rod ends can yield a little more travel..

That spring rate isnt bad all, It's actually smart, use a fairly light spring and let the shocks actually work, especially valved shocks. I do know that linear springs can allow you to work with more with your bumpstops and the shock to control the rebound. I'm sure they stepped up your compression a little bit as well.

The biggest trick is to not have to much valving so your shock doesnt hydro lock on you when you hit a nast pothole. You still to have some fluid pass through those piston ports in order to absorb thost types of hits...

Heck there is alot to the pistons inside of these things let alone valving..I know Penske builds some killer stuff but Bilstein makes some trick internal parts to there high end racing shocks..

It's nice to see some one tear into the shocks and fine tune them on a car..You never see this...What to set another trend..

BTW what did you do with your Bilsteins?

Yea, there's some crazy stuff inside these shocks.. you really have to see the pistons to appreciate all the engineering in them. I shot some for the shock story I will be doing.

Bilstiens are just hanging out in my garage.. good shock but I needed the adjustability.

And I agree that shocks are where people leave a lot of performance on the table.

[Gitter Dun]

Yea, I'm a firm believer in this now. I was talking to the Penske guy and he was saying it's funny how guys have no problem dropping $5k on a set of wheels but they freak over $3600 for some killer shocks.

In our slalom tests we dropped about 3/10ths of a second.. that's a HUGE amount and we annialated the old magazine test record for a car on street tires (220 tw).. To me that proves that the right shocks can make a big difference (or the right shocks with the right settings)

And a gratuitous beauty shot...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/29y31uc-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/_OP_391111-1.jpg

I find it funny that the suspension work on your car has created more roll and the work I have been doing on my car has been toward taking some of the roll out of it.

I imagine roll being good in auto cross but am curious to see how it translates to the road course.

[Gitter Dun]

Here's a picture showing why I am so intimidated by the roll......It may not look like much but it feels like a lot


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/InfineonRaceway20060031-1.jpg

[musclecarmatt]

bad penny is just plain sinful!:cheers:

[bonecrrusher]

Hahahah stick you b*!

Nice vids, love the action shot!

[Steve1968LS2]

I find it funny that the suspension work on your car has created more roll and the work I have been doing on my car has been toward taking some of the roll out of it.

I imagine roll being good in auto cross but am curious to see how it translates to the road course.

It won't matter on a road course.. roll is only a problem when that roll upsets the suspension and causes the tires to lose contact with the asphalt.

At this point the car is very compliant.. the weight transfer is good and the roll actually helps the car stick. That's not to say that would dial in a little more stiffness for the road course. But typically it's easier for an autocross car to move to a road course than a road course car to move to an autocross course. If I can take a 180 fast on an autocross then a 180 sweeper shouldn't be "that" big of a deal on a road course. Although I will leave it smarter wizzards in this area like David Pozzi to give a definitive answer.

Remember when we won Optima the first year? At that time the car had a lot of roll (no rear bar) but it held the road.. Now we have that "roll" again but the suspension is able to suck it up and run with it due to the shock travel, shock valving and how the suspension articulates. At least that's my understanding..

I do more autocross than road course work.. but they took all of it into consideration at Pensk and Global West.. we still need to experiment with the roll center (location of my slotted upper a-arms) and the settings on the Watts Link.

I suppose going stiff or going compliant are two different ways to achieve the same result.

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's a picture showing why I am so intimidated by the roll......It may not look like much but it feels like a lot


Like I said, roll can be bad if it screws up the car. Nick said Penny felt way different than all the other cars tested that day.. it just did whatever he wanted. He could tell it was faster since it took him so long to slow down after the last timer. Also, there was a nearly complete lack of tire squeel.

On the autocross our I-pod g-meter had a peak reading of 1.5g.. now that's a peak but I've never had a reading that high without a spinout. We are reviewing Racepak data, but lots of 1.3g constant numbers.

I've been in cars that rolled in a bad way.. no fun at all..

[Gitter Dun]

I dont remember having any tire contact issues with the roll, it just refrained me from pushing the excellerator any more due to being un easy in the seat.

We are alot flatter in the corners now which has given me more confidence on the excellerator.

Looking forward to watching Bad Penny perform on the road course at Buttonwillow.

[RSX302]

Yea, but the story is going to focus more on shock technology and show why the higher end shocks are so damn expensive.. I've really been fasinated by how these function and the tech involved.

As a side bar I will talk about the install on Penny a bit and more on the 2010 since that's more interesting. After all, any monkey with a banana can install a set of shocks so I will show a few tidbits like the double shear deal and the canister mounting.

But I want to focus more on how the stuff works and how a company like Penske comes up with thier valving and how that ultimatly effects how a car performs.

That was the short answer :)

Oh Yea...shock tech will make you go cross-eyed. We had Penske' on our track cars. We had a big Penske washer stack kit and shock oils...

The short of it I've learned...every spring lb has a spec valve/washer combo it requires for control. (Shock Dyno) The shock adjustments help with fine tuning for the track. The question is: what spring works best for that track and your car... Many possibilities...Good luck to ya Steve..You will be playing with this for many hours...Days..weeks..months

[Steve1968LS2]

I dont remember having any tire contact issues with the roll, it just refrained me from pushing the excellerator any more due to being un easy in the seat.

We are alot flatter in the corners now which has given me more confidence on the excellerator.

Looking forward to watching Bad Penny perform on the road course at Buttonwillow.

Just so we're clear.. I wasn't implying that roll was hurting your car. And I do get where it could feel "funny" if you're not use to it. Also, don't get the idea that Penny is rolling like crazy, she's just using all of her new suspension.

I can see where a stiffer car would "feel" more stable, but it's not always the case, or so I've been told.

Won't make the 25th as the engine won't be in the car yet, but will will hit at least one road course before SEMA.

When I get the slalom video I will post it..

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh Yea...shock tech will make you go cross-eyed. We had Penske' on our track cars. We had a big Penske washer stack kit and shock oils...

The short of it I've learned...every spring lb has a spec valve/washer combo it requires for control. (Shock Dyno) The shock adjustments help with fine tuning for the track. The question is: what spring works best for that track and your car... Many possibilities...Good luck to ya Steve..You will be playing with this for many hours...Days..weeks..months

Yea.. when we did the shocks we ran the same springs to keep the variables low.. then we tuned for the spring rate. We will keep noodling to figure out if we need more or less spring. My guess is that it's pretty close with these shocks and this valving.

Then again, we're not building a race car where we're changing springs for each track or stacking up different tires for different stuff.. supposed to be a street car that can hit the track and be competent. I would like the changes between street, autox, and road course to just be shock clicks.

And yea, a lot of the geek-speak on this is way over my head.. to listen to David Pozzi, Doug Nordin, and Matt from Penske talk I feel like the idiot in the room. lol

But I learn more and more all the time.. I suppose that's the point.

[johnparts]

I'm in awe of this car and your ability to swing it around the track. I watched the Optima challenge and was amazed at Penny.

[johnparts]

If I can manage to build something that is 1/100000th as cool I will be happy.

[strtlegal]

Marry was hilarious...lmao

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm in awe of this car and your ability to swing it around the track. I watched the Optima challenge and was amazed at Penny.

Well, the ability of myself is limited to the autocross track.. and I'm shown up by a woman on a regular basis.. lol

I hang out around smart and talented people.. just hope it rubs off on me a bit ;)

Thanks for the compliment though.

[RSX302]

I would like the changes between street, autox, and road course to just be shock clicks.

Yeeeaaa..I don't think so! You might find a compomise?.. I'm thinking more like street/autocross one shock set-up and higher speed road courses with a different set-up. Maybe with the low/high speed shocks? $$$$$$ Do I hear F1 Tech?



But I learn more and more all the time.. I suppose that's the point.

Absofrickinlootly!

[Gitter Dun]

No worries, I didn't feel like you were implying anything. I dont think the roll was hurting my car, just my confidence. That much roll at close to 100 mph gets the angels chatty, lol.

[RSX302]

No worries, I didn't feel like you were implying anything. I dont think the roll was hurting my car, just my confidence. That much roll at close to 100 mph gets the angels chatty, lol.


That's classic! "Dont Drive Faster Than Your Angels Can Fly"

I've tested mine to a buck 20! and they were thankfully there...:cheers:

They were probably yelling at me..LOL

[Gitter Dun]

That's classic! "Dont Drive Faster Than Your Angels Can Fly"

I've tested mine to a buck 20! and they were thankfully there...:cheers:

They were probably yelling at me..LOL

LMAO, your probably right, from the sounds of it if they were any closer they probably would'a been smackin ya in the head. LOL

[John Wright]

And yea, a lot of the geek-speak on this is way over my head.. to listen to David Pozzi, Doug Nordin, and Matt from Penske talk I feel like the idiot in the room. lol

But I learn more and more all the time.. I suppose that's the point.
:cheers: LOL, Steve........I feel this way most days when signing in and reading on this board......LOL.

[Steve1968LS2]

Been busy on the engine side and work got in my way a bit. :)
Went with David Pozzi over to Nelson Racing Engines to build the new RHS/COMP 460 engine. We both learned a ton.

First "problem" was we didn't expect such a thin head gasket for the RHS deal. Typically we're use to a 51 and this was 41 compress which pushed our compression (static) from 11.3 to 11.5
Fairly confident that the cam overlap will bleed some off, but it's something to watch.

We take it to Westech on Tuesday for dyno. Right now I'm heading to BOS to pull out the 454 which is going in David's Camaro.

I will also be switching to Centerforce's twin disc clutch. After doing one in the 2010 SS I'm sold on how badass this thing is.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/2dsfh9v-1.jpg

[srh3trinity]

Well you know the season is starting to change when Penny goes back under the knife. Nice to see that David is going to be getting a weapon together.

[6'9"Witha69]

Once Dave has his car up and running, and 'Jenny' is back together, who's going to drive (abuse) Penny, Steve? :poke:

[Rybar]

Sweet motor Steve, please let me know when you off load this one. :)

[srh3trinity]

Sweet motor Steve, please let me know when you off load this one. :)
He will get rid of this one when he finds a chunk of unobtainium big enough to cut a big cube LS block out of.

[bonecrrusher]

Steve - was that the Magnacharged Silver Camaro I saw at RTTH?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/DSC05378-1.jpg

If so - that clutch was nicee....

[Steve1968LS2]

Once Dave has his car up and running, and 'Jenny' is back together, who's going to drive (abuse) Penny, Steve? :poke:

I never seem short of volunteers.. :)

Besides, I drive the car harder than anyone.. I'm just don't have lower lap times.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve - was that the Magnacharged Silver Camaro I saw at RTTH?


If so - that clutch was nicee....

Yep, that was the one I did.. And yea, that's the best twin disc I've ever felt (and not heard).

[Steve1968LS2]

He will get rid of this one when he finds a chunk of unobtainium big enough to cut a big cube LS block out of.

You're not far off.. about the only place to go from here would be a tall deck or forced induction.

1. I refuse to go boosted, to much weight and complication
2. Tall deck isn't worth the hassle and what the hell would I do with more torque?

So this one will stay until the car sells or I rev it into slag. :)

[Steve1968LS2]

The new 461 is in the car.. waiting on headers, might fire up next Tuesday.

Productive day at Best of Show! :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/2w7r4gn-1.jpg

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

very nice as always Steve!

[Ron S]

Once again Steve, your pics make me want to throw a road flare into my front seat. As always that thing is so over the top. Your really pushing it, getting it done, and figuring the new set up out for Optima. Good luck, Ron

[ArtosDracon]

Once again Steve, your pics make me want to throw a road flare into my front seat. As always that thing is so over the top. Your really pushing it, getting it done, and figuring the new set up out for Optima. Good luck, Ron

If you ever go that method, just let me know, I'll come pick it up and take care of that for you, that way you'll have plausible deniability.

[Steve1968LS2]

Once again Steve, your pics make me want to throw a road flare into my front seat. As always that thing is so over the top. Your really pushing it, getting it done, and figuring the new set up out for Optima. Good luck, Ron

Optima is just for fun this year.. too many crazy good drivers and from what I've heard purpose built cars.. Just gonna go enjoy the day and try not to crash. lol

Thanks for the compliment on the car.. to be honest though I really like your car. In fact it's one of the few PT cars I know of that I would like to own just as it is.

I also switched to Centerforce's new twin disc clutch.. now typically I'm against these since they are more of a PITA than helpfull, but we installed this on our 2010 Camara and it was both stupid easy to install and felt like a stock clutch in the car with zero rattles or issues.

The flywheel is steel but the edge has been lightened and from a MOI standpoint is equal to an aluminum unit without the associated problems. Should hold up better to the power and to how I drive.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/2dluc69-1.jpg

[Cris@JCG]

Looking good Steve! I just noticed the Billet water pump.. WHose pump is that??



The new 461 is in the car.. waiting on headers, might fire up next Tuesday.

Productive day at Best of Show! :)



That's is Mezier's billet mechanical pump.. 55 gpm and doesn't cavitate at high RPM. Lots of the BAJA racers run them, so I'm doing some testing for them.

[srh3trinity]

How is it possible that these engine installs keep getting cleaner and cleaner. I will have to look back, but are those the valve covers that you have been running? They look nice and clean.

[Steve1968LS2]

How is it possible that these engine installs keep getting cleaner and cleaner. I will have to look back, but are those the valve covers that you have been running? They look nice and clean.

Because I screw up less and less the more we do it.. lol

Yea, Katech valve covers.

[sr73bu]

Awesome car, what an inspiration... keep up the great work.

[The WidowMaker]

what are the issues associated with an aluminum flywheel?

looks good. cant wait to see it finished.

[Steve1968LS2]

what are the issues associated with an aluminum flywheel?

looks good. cant wait to see it finished.

Expansion and flex mainly.. Steel is a superior metal for a flywheel but aluminum wins in the weight catagory. As it was explained to me this a good compromise between the two.

So while it is heavier the weight at the outer edge is better.

[DFRESH]

Because I screw up less and less the more we do it.. lol

Yea, Katech valve covers.

LOL man--so true---

Doug

[DFRESH]

The new 461 is in the car.. waiting on headers, might fire up next Tuesday.

Productive day at Best of Show! :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/2w7r4gn-1.jpg

My new Desktop----just awesome--get another one with everything installed please--I love the way the close out looks on yours when installed----

Doug

[Bjkadron]

Optima is just for fun this year.. too many crazy good drivers and from what I've heard purpose built cars.. Just gonna go enjoy the day and try not to crash. lol

Thanks for the compliment on the car.. to be honest though I really like your car. In fact it's one of the few PT cars I know of that I would like to own just as it is.

I also switched to Centerforce's new twin disc clutch.. now typically I'm against these since they are more of a PITA than helpfull, but we installed this on our 2010 Camara and it was both stupid easy to install and felt like a stock clutch in the car with zero rattles or issues.

The flywheel is steel but the edge has been lightened and from a MOI standpoint is equal to an aluminum unit without the associated problems. Should hold up better to the power and to how I drive.

So who can do that? And what would be a ballpark charge?

[Steve1968LS2]

So who can do that? And what would be a ballpark charge?

Who can do what? Lighten the flywheel?

If so then it has to be designed to be done like this. You just can't drill holes in a typical steel flywheel.

[Bjkadron]

Who can do what? Lighten the flywheel?

If so then it has to be designed to be done like this. You just can't drill holes in a typical steel flywheel.

Yes that is what I meant. Who sells them? And what are the chances they have anything for Mopars?

[Steve1968LS2]

Yes that is what I meant. Who sells them? And what are the chances they have anything for Mopars?

It's a Centerforce unit.. I'm sure other companies have similar deals. Check their website for applications :)

[gearbanger]

What is the bore and stroke of that 461?

[musclecarmatt]

wow...its almost too sexy to run or drive lol!

[Steve1968LS2]

What is the bore and stroke of that 461?

4.155 bore
4.250 stroke

[John Wright]

That flywheel and clutch arrangement is sweet looking.

[Bryce]

I cant wait to see the new penny at SEMA.

[gearbanger]

4.155 bore
4.250 stroke

Cool, that is exactly the same as my Pontiac 461

[formula98]

How did it do on the dyno?

[Steve1968LS2]

How did it do on the dyno?

:)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/2l8izps-1.jpg

[Gandalf]

I also switched to Centerforce's new twin disc clutch.. now typically I'm against these since they are more of a PITA than helpfull, but we installed this on our 2010 Camara and it was both stupid easy to install and felt like a stock clutch in the car with zero rattles or issues.

The flywheel is steel but the edge has been lightened and from a MOI standpoint is equal to an aluminum unit without the associated problems. Should hold up better to the power and to how I drive.

That is one nice looking Centerforce. Few questions for you: What material are those discs? Do they give a hold-rating? F/W weight? Running the same pressure-plate or is it a "kit" that all comes together? Any pics of the other parts? Was there an article on the 2010 fit I can check out?

I know you were happy with the single disc Centerforce setup in Penny so this should be even better under "those conditions" LOL!

G.

[gearbanger]

Wow, that is going to be a hoss!

Just out of curiosity, could you give me some idea of the cam specs, solid or hyd roller, compression, and head flow?

[xxxturbo6]

Steve,

What are you doing for oiling?

I see a bunch of people talk about a Dry-sump set up for doing road courses but I don't see a bunch here doing it, How come?



Scot W.

[gearbanger]

Wow, that is going to be a hoss!

Just out of curiosity, could you give me some idea of the cam specs, solid or hyd roller, compression, and head flow?


Pretty please? :)

[formula98]

:)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/2l8izps-1.jpg
Awesome! The G's she'll deliver will be mind bending! I can't wait to watch her run again......

[Steve1968LS2]

Pretty please? :)

Sorry.. swamped here and going to St Louis for a few days (work)

247/263 lift of .624 and the LSA is 114 (installed at 111 but we installed it at 110.5)

I don't have the head flow but with our 30 degree back cut valves I remember:

250 193
300 231
450 316
550 348
600 360
650 372

I think we could have made more CFM messing with the valve profiles more but these are good flow numbers where we need them.

[gearbanger]

I am assuming a solid roller, and I think I found where the compression was about 11.5:1 , is that correct?

That cam should be pretty nice. Will it be 93 octane friendly, or will it need a little boost?

[Nessumsar]

Knowing what Steve wanted from this engine I would have to assume that it has Hyd lifters, and runs on 91 octane.

That thing is a beast!

[Steve1968LS2]

I am assuming a solid roller, and I think I found where the compression was about 11.5:1 , is that correct?

That cam should be pretty nice. Will it be 93 octane friendly, or will it need a little boost?

Hydraulic.. solid is for race cars :)

Yea, 11.5 -- we were targeting 11.3 but the head gasket ended up being 41 compressed instead of the more common 51 for a GM MLS.

Ran it on the dyno on 91.. but im sure it would be happier on the 93 instead of the crap gas we get in CA.

[gearbanger]

Man, that really is impressive. Did you have to use titanium valves and/or retainers to get it to rpm like that with a hyd roller? What size are the intake valves?

[Steve1968LS2]

Man, that really is impressive. Did you have to use titanium valves and/or retainers to get it to rpm like that with a hyd roller? What size are the intake valves?

Ti retainers.. hollow stem stainless valves. Couldn't get the Ti valves in time. Might retrofit them later.

The key was running stiff enough springs. Most of the time they are too soft and that doesn't help float. I these are 420 lb..

Intake valves are 2.20 inch.. pretty damn big.

[Scott Parkhurst]

Dude. Seriously!

[twosaturns]

wait, almost 720hp on a natuarally aspirated LS? seriously?
I have to change my pants...

[gearbanger]

That is totally awesome. I have had trouble getting a hyd roller to rpm much above 6000 with a 2.15 intake valve, but I haven't gotten into light retainers or bee hive stuff yet. I wore a set of springs out pretty quick. Once they float once it is really hard on them and they won't take much of that it seems.

[Steve1968LS2]

Dude. Seriously!

Gotta keep up with the wagon!!!! lol

[Steve1968LS2]

wait, almost 720hp on a natuarally aspirated LS? seriously?
I have to change my pants...

bigger cam and more lift would have been 750.. solid even more.. it's pretty crazy what you can do. Imagine the tall deck.

Just checked out the NW 102mm TBW throttle body.. pretty sweet, might pick one up.

[John Wright]

wait, almost 720hp on a natuarally aspirated LS? seriously?
I have to change my pants...on pump gas, with hyd cam, has decent street manners, and still gets decent mileage on the highway with OD....yup, that's sweet.

[dipren443]

wait, almost 720hp on a natuarally aspirated LS? seriously?
I have to change my pants...

When I first saw the dyno plot, I was wondering if Steve had shoved a Magnacharger on top of her or something.

[ArtosDracon]

It's nice to see someone really pushing NA power here. The weight savings are incredible and you can really do a lot without resorting to power adders, most people just either don't have the budget or the patience to do it.

Congrats, she'll be fun, that's for sure.

[RSX302]

wait, almost 720hp on a natuarally aspirated LS? seriously?
I have to change my pants...

I'm hearing up to 800hp with a single plane manifold and a wheel barrel full of money.. wait, better make that two wheel barrels..:)

[trapin]

Forget about the horsepower number......

662 ft. lbs??!!

You could open a worm-hole in the fabric of time and space with that much torque.

[John Wright]

Forget about the horsepower number......

662 ft. lbs??!!

You could open a worm-hole in the fabric of time and space with that much torque.(and a very flat curve....to add to Tony's comment)

[Tom2uk5es2]

Hi Steve, new member here.

You've done a great job on your car. Go AND Show, the way it should be. EXCELLENT numbers from the engine, I'm sure it will be a blast!

I'm curious, what main bearing clearance do you run with the aluminum block?

Take Care,
Tom C.

[RSX302]

Forget about the horsepower number......

662 ft. lbs??!!



I guess that would be a personal preference. :cheers:

It's good that the torque is higher up the rpm band. Maybe give those poor ol street tires a fighting chance.

[RSX302]

bigger cam and more lift would have been 750.. solid even more.. it's pretty crazy what you can do. Imagine the tall deck.

Just checked out the NW 102mm TBW throttle body.. pretty sweet, might pick one up.

Very nice Steve..Thing is a monster..gonna be a handfull with your light weight..Just a hunch, but I don't think you'll be needing any more torque unless you plan on setting it up as a drag car. Your steet tires will hate you as it is! LOL

[Steve1968LS2]

Very nice Steve..Thing is a monster..gonna be a handfull with your light weight..Just a hunch, but I don't think you'll be needing any more torque unless you plan on setting it up as a drag car. Your steet tires will hate you as it is! LOL

Yea, I didn't even need this much.. but the car with the 454 still seemed to hook pretty good.

Hard to keep up with you power adder guys ;)

[gearbanger]

Yea, I didn't even need this much.. but the car with the 454 still seemed to hook pretty good.

Hard to keep up with you power adder guys ;)

No kidding man, I like the simplicity of N/A too but d@m even a warmed over cobra mustang is more than most N/A street cars can do anything with. When you are traction limited like everyone is on the street, you have to make it up on top end.

[RSX302]

Hard to keep up with you power adder guys ;)

Yea but now you have the HP to go with your new combo! that was the only hope we (I) had. You're now knocking at my door with 750hp/650tq and alot less weight. your killin us (me) Not that you didn't already..:spank2:

If I remember right, the 454 was 650ish? going to 720hp along with the tq--better keep an extra pair of shorts in the trunk. The pull is awesome...

BTW... IMO...go for the 750hp+..:naughty:

:cheers:

[Vegas69]

I'm not trying to stroke Steve but I think he's got the ultimate power plant. All aluminum, fuel injected, hydraulic cam and a ton of power. As long as it will rev to 7k reliably. Ron's twin turbos add a bunch of weight and may make the car's balance tough to race. I'd opt for a linear power band for anything but drag racing. I still think the driver and car's balance play the biggest factor but having the most repeatable horsepower sure doesn't hurt.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

goddddd damn Steve!

[RSX302]

I'm not trying to stroke Steve but I think he's got the ultimate power plant. All aluminum, fuel injected, hydraulic cam and a ton of power. As long as it will rev to 7k reliably. Ron's twin turbos add a bunch of weight and may make the car's balance tough to race. I'd opt for a linear power band for anything but drag racing. I still think the driver and car's balance play the biggest factor but having the most repeatable horsepower sure doesn't hurt.

I'm right there with ya! I agree it is the Ultimate engine for what he is using it for!

I was looking at a set-up very similar to this before I settled back to the LQ9 and Twins..(I do like the twins..LOL)

WHY? Serious $$$$$$

Maybe I'll bring RSX out to Vegas when its done and let you drive..You'll be addicted too..

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm not trying to stroke Steve but I think he's got the ultimate power plant. All aluminum, fuel injected, hydraulic cam and a ton of power. As long as it will rev to 7k reliably. Ron's twin turbos add a bunch of weight and may make the car's balance tough to race. I'd opt for a linear power band for anything but drag racing. I still think the driver and car's balance play the biggest factor but having the most repeatable horsepower sure doesn't hurt.

The car has the power.. the car has the balance.. it's the driver part I have to work on. lol

This was always my goal, but let's not get confused.. my **** comes out good mainly because I talk to really smart people, listen to what they have to say and then formalate a plan based on all of thier input.

Trust me.. it was tempting to go tall deck with a huge solid cam and make 800 but why.. except for the challenge of doing it's a lot like having a 20" wang.. fun to brag about but most is useless.. lol

I found a 102mm TBW throttle body this weekend.. going to do a back to back dyno test to see what the gain would be. Chassis dyno tune should be next week.

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm right there with ya! I agree it is the Ultimate engine for what he is using it for!

I was looking at a set-up very similar to this before I settled back to the LQ9 and Twins..(I do like the twins..LOL)

WHY? Serious $$$$$$

Yea, thankfully I have a job that lets me indulge in my crazy impulses..

I could get a blower really cheap, but I just cant get myself to hang a hundred + pounds off the front of my car.

And we all love twins.. right?

[RSX302]

I could get a blower really cheap, but I just cant get myself to hang a hundred + pounds off the front of my car.



I don't blame you at all..I was in turmoil for months trying to figure out how I was going to pull off a non turbo'd car that can still achieve 750hp.. sell off a kid, kidney? Got a wife for cheap..DOH.. LOL

[twosaturns]

it sure is exotic, but simple at the same time. it's like a classic Lola can am car w/ big inches and fuel injection stacks, or a '60's 12 cyl ferrari or lamborghini.

[bonecrrusher]

I found a 102mm TBW throttle body this weekend.. going to do a back to back dyno test to see what the gain would be. Chassis dyno tune should be next week.

Is that a Nick Williams TB?

Those are built here in NC. Nick is a really nice guy and is pretty good with tuning. I've had a few friends go to his shop for tuning there late models.

[69fbodyproject]

Who makes the center pivot point that is used in your Watts link? Been looking for options for my build but alot of the peices I have looked at are junk.

[TitoJones]

Who makes the center pivot point that is used in your Watts link? Been looking for options for my build but alot of the peices I have looked at are junk.

Lateral Dynamics.

You won't find it; they are out of business.


Tyler

[Bryce]

Fays2 sells their bell cranks will bearings and fastener.

I am building my own.

[Ron S]

As always Steve, I'm jealous. Interested in the RWHP numbers, with the new suspension mods that thing should be crazy. I DON'T envy trying to get it all sorted before Optima, seat time is everything, and your not going to have alot of it with the new set up. That said, who cares, its all about the fun factor, and I can't imagine how gitty you have to be to take it out and beat on it . Ron

[Steve1968LS2]

As always Steve, I'm jealous. Interested in the RWHP numbers, with the new suspension mods that thing should be crazy. I DON'T envy trying to get it all sorted before Optima, seat time is everything, and your not going to have alot of it with the new set up. That said, who cares, its all about the fun factor, and I can't imagine how gitty you have to be to take it out and beat on it . Ron

Yea, Optima is just for giggles this year.. with the car now in a "done" state I can work on car control over the winter and whop some butt next season.. or at least have fun tryin'

Will hopefully run her at the Phoenix Super Chevy show in two weeks.. good wheel time.

My new wheels are done at Forgeline.. we used blind Titanium fasteners to knock off a few pounds.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/9foc5k-1.jpg

[Smock67]

Damn Steve another set of wheels? Can't wait to see those beauties on Penny.

[Steve1968LS2]

Damn Steve another set of wheels? Can't wait to see those beauties on Penny.

And no they are not free.. lol

But I sold my WC3s since they needed a spacer to clear my brakes.. that game me enough $$$$ for these.

Should really change the look of the car. I will keep the grey/brushed 5-spokes for track duty.

[Gandalf]

Damn - super sexy! I've missed the polished step-lip on Penny. These will look awesome!

[olds87]

Man, I was not planing on going to Super Chevy show next week, but now you making me go now.

That one sick car.

[formula]

gonna miss the mesh look of the wc3, but i suppose those will be a sufficient replacement :headbang:

[Mean 69]

Steve, when you get sick of these new wheels, can I get them from you for my 70?!? I'll take the engine when it's time to change the oil (i.e. replace with new lump....) too....

Mark

[RSX302]

Yea, Optima is just for giggles this year.. with the car now in a "done" state I can work on car control over the winter and whop some butt next season.. or at least have fun tryin'

Will hopefully run her at the Phoenix Super Chevy show in two weeks.. good wheel time.

My new wheels are done at Forgeline.. we used blind Titanium fasteners to knock off a few pounds.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/9foc5k-1.jpg

I like em..Looks like the Fikse'. ;)
Since Fikse closed, did someone transfer to Forgeline?
Now I know where to get replacements..

[bramel1967]

I hope Fikse is back in operation, I just bought a set.

[Bow Tie 67]

Steve, we want the weight of these wheels. please

[RSX302]

I hope Fikse is back in operation, I just bought a set..


You're right...I just looked for their website..they are back..

Very nice! New owners? What's the deal with that?

[RSX302]

Steve, we want the weight of these wheels. please
.

In case you care to know..I just measured the 18x10 Fikse Profil 5S at 47.4lbs with Toyo 285 R888's. I have new R888 275's that will replace the 285's at 28.2lbs. So rim is around 19lbs. Forgeline appear to be thinner in the spokes so may be a little lighter?

[Rybar]

You're right...I just looked for their website..they are back..

Very nice! New owners? What's the deal with that?

Yes they are back. New owners and moved the shop.

[zbugger]

... I can't imagine how gitty you have to be to take it out and beat on it . Ron

Damn Ron!!! You really should learn to read what you've written before posting it. Sick fools like me could take a sentence like this to an entirely different level. And you're lucky I'm just giving you that warning....

[Steve1968LS2]

Car fired up and ran ok.. brough up stuff to temp and no leaks.

Running VERY lean though.. my AF meter is showing pegged at 16:1 .. but the exhaust smells really rich (lots of hydrocarbons)

Trailering to dyno tune next Wednesday.. was gonna drive it there :(

New wheels look bad freakin ass.. I'm sick as a dog right now so no pics or weights but I will get them next week.

[zbugger]

Can't wait to see and hear her run. Now go get better.

[Steve1968LS2]

Found out I have walking Phumonia (sp?)... no wonder I feel like crap. Got three shots, and inhaler and some kick ass cough swill.

But SEMA waits for nobody.. lol

New wheels are on the car and she goes tomorrow to dyno tune then back to BOS so we can finish up all the little stuff.

Shaun Dove (TwinSting) over at EVOD showed me a new deal he is doing. In short he has a way to cast emblems now. So he took my Bad Penny logo, scanned it, made it 3Dish and then made centercaps for my wheels.

He said he ca do this with any logo or car name and the cost for the entire set of custom one-off center caps is only about $250. Considering the billet Forgeline caps run $200 that's a hell of deal.

He can color them many ways, these he used a dye to give the patina copper look.

He can also do one off emblems as well (like if you had a car name or something) for under a hundred bucks.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/73j9tw-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/168so5c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/2le5w6w-1.jpg

[tazzz25906112]

Looking Sweet Steve,,, I left a funny comment for you on the "Need Optima crew" thread from James ;-)
Hopefully I'll see in Vegas buddy all things equal....

[Steve1968LS2]

Looking Sweet Steve,,, I left a funny comment for you on the "Need Optima crew" thread from James ;-)
Hopefully I'll see in Vegas buddy all things equal....

You need in? I still have one crew spot open (Dave is the other one).. call me.

[Rod]

Those center caps are awesome!!! that's a must get!! thanks for the tip

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ArtosDracon]

Those caps are perfect, very nice find!

[78 Type-LT]

those caps fit tha theme well

[John Wright]

Hey Steve those center caps look awsome....great idea!
BTW, now you need a couple more for your loafers...LOL

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i like the old wheels better, but it still looks ridiculously sweet.

and the centercaps.. thats a face melter there..

[shortrack]

you know your car is done when..........

lol jus kiddin'.....OT I know but hows your new Furn/A/C working out?

[Steve1968LS2]

you know your car is done when..........

lol jus kiddin'.....OT I know but hows your new Furn/A/C working out?

It's close to "done".. except that floater.. and lots more sorting out.. and.. lol

Had all the new stuff put on on Monday. So far so good, should notice a drop in heat/cooling cost. Price was $4900 OTD and after the rebates I will be in it for $3100.

[tooblue]

Steve ,, AMAZING ride.. Will be at Sema so it will be great to see it = other then pics..
Roger

[srh3trinity]

The new wheels change the look of the car. I like it and the fact that you still have the charcoal wheels for events. She looks great.

[TitoJones]

I like how you're already setting up for excuses with the whole 'pneumonia' thing. Once Dave wasn't allowed to pilot the car I took bets on what excuses you'd have for not running the car to the front of the pack at Optima.

'My center caps weigh more than they did last year, slowing the inertia down.'
'I forgot my left shoe.'
'My P/S pump died. Again.'
'My Penske shocks are too good to drive on such a small track'
'I thought we were going to run counter clockwise this time'
'My engine has too much power'
'I have pneumonia.'

Someone owes me fifty bucks.

(Just kidding Steve! I hope you feel better!)

Tyler

[Bow Tie 67]

The center caps are neat. Please tell me you weighed your rims prior to mounting the tires. * fingers crossed *

[rogue]

Not feeling the new wheels and the caps....

[jon72vega]

Steve,
Those center caps are awesome!!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

The center caps are neat. Please tell me you weighed your rims prior to mounting the tires. * fingers crossed *

Yep.. put it in the wheel thread.. I recall 21.9 front and 24.7 rear or something like that..

[Steve1968LS2]

Not feeling the new wheels and the caps....

Good thing I didn't ask you to chip in on them.. lol

Hey, no matter what one does some will like.. others wont.. that's the funny thing about people. After all, even Yugos and Azteks found customers..

[Steve1968LS2]

Well.. hit the chassis dyno today.

The bad..

Found out that the smaller bell on the new H20 pump makes my belt come close to my upper radiator hose.. under flogging it barely left a mark on the blue tape we put there to check it. Will have to fix it this weekend.. it's always something.

My O2 sensors are shot.. ordered some that will be here Friday, for now the car is in open loop

New engine idles at 210/215 all day long.. We engine dynoed at 175 degrees.. the difference makes the car not like 91 octane. Seems like it would be good to go on 95ish.. but not 91. Sort of a buzz kill.

So the plan for now? Well after we did the dyno pulls we made sure the tune was safe and filled her up with 100 octane.. smells great.. :)

After SEMA, in January, I will pull the engine and lower the compression, maybe by going with a thicker Cometic gasket and opening up the heads a bit. Right now I'm at 11.5 and I need to be 11.1 or maybe 11.2 static. This will also give me a chance to get my one off oil pan made by Canton that will accomodate the long stroke and give me all the room I can get.

Other than that life is good... as for the dyno:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/30kr12t-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

The 90mm TB is really choking the engine down.. we guess that the new 102 TB on the way will free up at least another 20hp.

[Steve1968LS2]

And the obligatory video:

oVTklcA2FGg

[fbody_mike]

That is still alot of HP in my book. And a nice curve too, I will love to see the results when you get it dialed in more to your desires.



PS I like the center caps too, nice touch.

[bonecrrusher]

Awesome update!

BTW - what kind of Camera did you use for the dyno video?

(Note from Steve: I used my Canon G11 camera, low def, but good for the web)

[Mudweizer]

What size cam was in the 454? (I never did find that info)

[Steve1968LS2]

What size cam was in the 454? (I never did find that info)

243/259 with lift of .624 and an LSA of 114

Overall not a very big cam given the displacement..

[Steve1968LS2]

And since someone bumped this old deal to the top I might as well update it..

Not much done since Optima, fixed the sway bar and did a bolt check. Working on the little stuff. In January we will be making the DSE radiator closeout fit the new core support and finishing the install on the fire suppression system. Project is definetly getting to the point where everything is done. The tune is still a bit off, good at WOT, bad at idle and around town. Mike Norris will be fixing that when he comes out.

Will all the building done it's time to do some driving. People think "wow, that car's been done so long it must be all sorted out." but the fact is that the current form of BP is NOTHING like the car built back in my PHR days. Finally I will be able to get use to the car in its current state and get some track time (needed more for me than the car.. lol)

First up was hitting the local PCA autocross:

It was a very well ran event and I knew it would be that way when I arrived for tech and there was starbucks coffee and donuts set out. The PCA has a killer timing system that let them always have 4-5 cars on track at any given time. Because of this they were able to run around 90 cars 11 laps each!

Drove the course in 2nd gear and I could still break the tires loose easily. Had a great time and the others there liked seeing the "old" muscle car. I think it was a first time PT experience for most of them. On course worker said mine was the only car that scared them when they were working hte course since it was so loud and mean looking coming down the straight twords thier station. lol.. I took that as a compliment.

Anyways, if any of you have the chance to go to one of these specialty car events you'll have a blast and meet a lot of great people.

Oh, top speed was 72+ mph and my racepak showed lateral g's (sustained) of 1.2g+ in each direction. I ran in the 63.x range whereas cars with race rubber (A6, etc) were in the 58,59 range and all out track cars were in the 56 area. Next time I need a "pit bitch" to help me check tire temp/pres between runs since it's too hard to unbuckle and get back in quickly. :)

Here's a video.. if you go to YouTube there's a high-def version.. clouds look cool (rained in the afternoon which made for fun track time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsRlpxqeew

KIsRlpxqeew

Lateral Data showing speed and later-g
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/714v9u-1.jpg

One of these cars is not like the others...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/5ocw2s-1.jpg

[CarlC]

I hear ya on the "old muscle car' thing. Lots of guys came over at the Speedventures event, shook my hand, and said "you brought THAT out here?"

[Mudweizer]

What spark plugs are you running in Bad Penny?

[dmc69]

Penny is one fine piece of machinery! How many man hours do you think you have invested?

[absintheisfun]

Is there any kind of software other than racepak that can provide this kind of data? I like what it can do, but dislike the look/interface in the driver's seat.

[RSX302]

Very cool Steve...I'd bet you could shave off a couple seconds easy just by running more laps. In a couple of areas it looked like you zigged when you should of zagged.... Did you take a ride with anyone doing the 58's? I personally need lots of laps when it comes to those damn little orange cones.

Watching your car build is an inspiration to us all. Get's me off my A$$ to work on mine...I'm starting to see progress which always gives second wind...


And since someone bumped this old deal to the top I might as well update it..

Not much done since Optima, fixed the sway bar and did a bolt check. Working on the little stuff. In January we will be making the DSE radiator closeout fit the new core support and finishing the install on the fire suppression system. Project is definetly getting to the point where everything is done. The tune is still a bit off, good at WOT, bad at idle and around town. Mike Norris will be fixing that when he comes out.

Will all the building done it's time to do some driving. People think "wow, that car's been done so long it must be all sorted out." but the fact is that the current form of BP is NOTHING like the car built back in my PHR days. Finally I will be able to get use to the car in its current state and get some track time (needed more for me than the car.. lol)

First up was hitting the local PCA autocross:

It was a very well ran event and I knew it would be that way when I arrived for tech and there was starbucks coffee and donuts set out. The PCA has a killer timing system that let them always have 4-5 cars on track at any given time. Because of this they were able to run around 90 cars 11 laps each!

Drove the course in 2nd gear and I could still break the tires loose easily. Had a great time and the others there liked seeing the "old" muscle car. I think it was a first time PT experience for most of them. On course worker said mine was the only car that scared them when they were working hte course since it was so loud and mean looking coming down the straight twords thier station. lol.. I took that as a compliment.

Anyways, if any of you have the chance to go to one of these specialty car events you'll have a blast and meet a lot of great people.

Oh, top speed was 72+ mph and my racepak showed lateral g's (sustained) of 1.2g+ in each direction. I ran in the 63.x range whereas cars with race rubber (A6, etc) were in the 58,59 range and all out track cars were in the 56 area. Next time I need a "pit bitch" to help me check tire temp/pres between runs since it's too hard to unbuckle and get back in quickly. :)

Here's a video.. if you go to YouTube there's a high-def version.. clouds look cool (rained in the afternoon which made for fun track time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsRlpxqeew

[Steve1968LS2]

Yea, just need more pratice with the car in this configuration.. I think the engine has 200 miles on it, most of them hard.

Need Mary to do a lap to see what the car is actually capable of.. gives me a goal to shoot for.

[Larry Callahan]

And the obligatory video:

oVTklcA2FGg

Gives me goose bumps. I LOVE dyno vids.

[Motown 454]

Yea, just need more pratice with the car in this configuration.. I think the engine has 200 miles on it, most of them hard.

Need Mary to do a lap to see what the car is actually capable of.. gives me a goal to shoot for.



With her car laid up she'll probably be glad to.

[RS_Customs]

How goes test an tuning Steve? Anymore auto-cross days lately?

I think your one of the few that are running the stack pro-control gauges, I started a thread (https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?77280-Anyone-use-Stack-pro-control-gauges)with some questions about them if you had a minute to look.

Robert

[Payton King]

Funny, I was just speaking to Ron on the phone today and said how quiet Steve had been. Not heard much from him. Hopefully he will jump in and tell us what he has been up too...If I recall you are waiting on Norris to tune your junk.

[Steve1968LS2]

Funny, I was just speaking to Ron on the phone today and said how quiet Steve had been. Not heard much from him. Hopefully he will jump in and tell us what he has been up too...If I recall you are waiting on Norris to tune your junk.

Just busy.. my reward for working hard is they give me more work.. ok, the truth is I volunteer.. This month for CP (July) I did all 5 tech stories, wrote the event coverage and they are running two cars I shot.. Also, the truth is that sometimes I get burned out a bit. I love cars, but it's really all I do at least 6 days a week and then my car/work gets in the way of my car/fun and I miss going to events I would REALLY like to attend.. so I get burned out.

Anyways, feeling great.. Track Rat is back moving forward thanks to some weekends donated by the guys at Best Of Show.. and best of all, Penny is running great.

Had an alternator problem and my spare was FUBAR as well. Took both alts to the local rebuilder.. the new one was DOA and the working one had a noisy bearing.. had both rebuilt to 180amp (cost $200 each). They had better last forever. Nice to have a spare I know is good though.

Turned out the replaced alt did short to an AN fitting.. fried out a small divot and blew three fuses. Replaced the fuses, re-did the wiring and BP is better than ever.. running great and charging like a champ.

New Spectre Performance air intake looks good, although I'm tempted to powder it black.. or grind off the welds.. we'll see. Also like the Anvil fender struts with the new black ends. We swapped the car over to the newer LS7 blade MAF from the old LS2 round type.. better flow, cleaner looking. Spectre Performance supplied the MAF kit and Mike Norris massaged the computer.

Now I need to start getting ready for the big drag race in July.. time to call Mickey Thompson for some sticky tires.

Engine bay with new intake and Anvil fender struts.. (also installed new Mastercraft seat harness systems.)

It was a good day in the shop.. made actual forward progress ;)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/2hh396s-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

How goes test an tuning Steve? Anymore auto-cross days lately?

I think your one of the few that are running the stack pro-control gauges, I started a thread (https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?77280-Anyone-use-Stack-pro-control-gauges)with some questions about them if you had a minute to look.

Robert

Sorry I missed this Robert.. if you have any questions email me at [email protected] :)

[Bryce]

Steve,

I saw BP driving around cruising grand last night. It looks great!

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,

I saw BP driving around cruising grand last night. It looks great!

Yea, I told the guys at BOS that they could take her for a cruise.. I think she's at Cars and Coffee today. I have too much work to do this weekend :(

[Flash68]

I am still waiting for the gunmetal wheels to make their way back on. ;)

[fbody_mike]

Yea, I told the guys at BOS that they could take her for a cruise.. I think she's at Cars and Coffee today. I have too much work to do this weekend :(

If it was at Cars and Coffee today I missed it :dunno:

Next time......

[Steve1968LS2]

If it was at Cars and Coffee today I missed it :dunno:

Next time......

The one in Carlsbad.. the BOS guys took it there.



I am still waiting for the gunmetal wheels to make their way back on. ;)

End of summer.. Love the HTM.. miss the look of the gunmetal, so I will be sending them to Forgeline to have these done.

[Steve1968LS2]

I just got a set of ones for 67/68... there is a TON more room for the tire to travel up.. Technically they arn't much wider, but the curve seems to offer more internal room.
.. on the set I have they weighed in at half the weight of reproduction inners. I was really happy with the fit and finish.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/qrdvdy-1.jpg


You'll notice that they arn't much wider (and inch) but the there is more of a curve and the dip near the opening for the control arms is less.. so there should be more clearance. Also, the opening for the control arms is two inches wider for aftermarket control arms. The area for the tires to go "up" is quite a bit more. It's also nice that all the holes are filled..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/2ury2pt-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

And here they are installed.. like Matt said, we had to trim a tiny bit off near the back of the upper C6 arm, but I think that has more to do with my set back arms. The glued on nuts didn't work well at all, I'm going to reccomend to Matt that they swap to clip nuts which worked great. Fitment was excellent. This weekend will be the first big test on rubbing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/2bnlm1-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

Also in the process of moving back to a gunmetal colored wheel center.. Loved the HTM finish, but the grey just fit the car (or maybe I was just used to it).. in any event these wheels are killer. Weight for the 18x12 wheel (with Ti fasteners) was 25 lbs. I will send my fronts back to Forgeline to get coated.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/ap9u7q-1.jpg

[Vicinity]

Ah, man, you painted them? :(

[gearbanger]

So who makes the stepped lip wheels in wider that 10" (9.5)? I have been told by Intro that 9.5" is the widest hoop you can get in the billet wheels, without major expense in makeing custom hoops. Any truth to that?

[ccm399]

So who makes the stepped lip wheels in wider that 10" (9.5)? I have been told by Intro that 9.5" is the widest hoop you can get in the billet wheels, without major expense in makeing custom hoops. Any truth to that?


http://www.forgeline.com/products/performance-series-step-lip/

[Steve1968LS2]

So who makes the stepped lip wheels in wider that 10" (9.5)? I have been told by Intro that 9.5" is the widest hoop you can get in the billet wheels, without major expense in makeing custom hoops. Any truth to that?

Well they must be wrong since my stepped lip Forgelines are 18x12 with a 6" backspace.. I would call Scott over at Forgeline and ask.. maybe Intro just can't do it?? Also, remember that these at three piece rims.. inner hoop.. outer hoop and center.. maybe Intro is talking about a two piece wheel?

[Steve1968LS2]

Ah, man, you painted them? :(

Yep.. I like how it already looked.. plus my car doesn't have a lot of CF on it. Now on a car like Track Rat I wouldn't have painted them.

Plus, I got blems to save $$$ :)

[srh3trinity]

Looks great. I like that you are going back to the charcoal centers. It is the best color for Penny IMHO.

[icemanrd19]

Do they make a rim similar to this but without the step lip?


Yea, Optima is just for giggles this year.. with the car now in a "done" state I can work on car control over the winter and whop some butt next season.. or at least have fun tryin'

Will hopefully run her at the Phoenix Super Chevy show in two weeks.. good wheel time.

My new wheels are done at Forgeline.. we used blind Titanium fasteners to knock off a few pounds.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/9foc5k-1.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

Do they make a rim similar to this but without the step lip?

That's my rear actuall current rear wheel (for trivia) .. I believe the answer is yes that they offer it in the other lip... but the step looks better and helps with brake clearance.

[John Wright]

Steve, I like that wheel....The stepped lip looks good when you have that much polished hoop showing to the outside<---just my opinion.

[Steve1968LS2]

Well... first time for BP on the drag strip.. went well.. first pass I smoked up the clutch (sorry Will) and the second pass in the True Street deal I ran an 11.478 at 124.82... considering the track was a bit slippery and it was hot I'm pretty happy with that. I made no changes to the car (no shock softening, etc).. had a full ...tank of 91.. only adder was a set of MT drag radials (running at 18lbs). The 68 beat the 2010 that Will was driving from Centerforce (sorry again Will) but he put in a valiant effort.. either way we both win since I'm running a Centerforce clutch. Also won the Media shootout with the fastest time of all the media/magazines in attendance.. That should be good for bragging rights for awhile. Best part of day was driving 120mph on the banked NASCAR oval next to a Boss 302 driven by Evan Smith, Editor of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords.. epic!

I'm car 302:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/2cr94b9-1.jpg

Of all the awards I hoped to win one day I never really expected one of these.. Yep, I won a real-deal Wally driving BP in the drags.. who would have thought? Thanks to Henry at Chevy High Performance for sponsoring the class.. Fastest Media car.. also won overall champ for fastest of all Media and Manufacturers cars. It was a good weekend even if I did fry my clutch into molten slag. Also thanks to Mickey Thompson for hooking me up with tires!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/rsrncy-1.jpg

[Flash68]

Bringing home the hardware. Nice!

[jtomas801]

Congratulations on the awards, especially a Wally. Saw the car parked at the autocross today but was only able to see it run once, I'm glad I was finally able to see it in person, lol. Again, nice job!!!!!

Thanks,
Jon

[Steve1968LS2]

Congratulations on the awards, especially a Wally. Saw the car parked at the autocross today but was only able to see it run once, I'm glad I was finally able to see it in person, lol. Again, nice job!!!!!

Thanks,
Jon

I only ran once.. and found my clutch was truly FUBAR.. I would hit the gas and nothing would happen for a bit.. it was like I had a 4,500 stall converter. Still ran a 39.. she's on the lift right now waiting for parts to show up.. mounting up my R888s for next weekends Porsche autocross.

[jtomas801]

I only ran once.. and found my clutch was truly FUBAR.. I would hit the gas and nothing would happen for a bit.. it was like I had a 4,500 stall converter. Still ran a 39.. she's on the lift right now waiting for parts to show up.. mounting up my R888s for next weekends Porsche autocross.



Well, that explains it! Hopefully you didn't hurt the clutch setup to much. Is the Porsche autocross at El Toro?

Thanks,
Jon

[gearbanger]

Well they must be wrong since my stepped lip Forgelines are 18x12 with a 6" backspace.. I would call Scott over at Forgeline and ask.. maybe Intro just can't do it?? Also, remember that these at three piece rims.. inner hoop.. outer hoop and center.. maybe Intro is talking about a two piece wheel?


I bet that is it, because we were definitely talking two piece.

[progoat]

Congrats on the Wally Steve! truly a BA car glad I got to see her in person even though she's been through some changes since..lol

[Steve1968LS2]

Driving the NASCAR oval was the best part of hitting the NMCA drag event.. someone just sent me this picture:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/28tkoax-1.jpg

[Gandalf]

Wooot! Yeah baby! That must have been mucho fun.

[CliffS]

dreaming....

[MattG]

Steve,

Do you have any udate on changing to the gunmetal centers on your wheels...I can't wait to see how that looks!

Matt

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,

Do you have any udate on changing to the gunmetal centers on your wheels...I can't wait to see how that looks!

Matt

I'm waiting on the fronts to get done at Forgeline.. right now I'm rollin' two tone. lol

When you see both on the car you realize how different the two finishes make the car look, it's night and day. I will dig up a shot with both colors on the car.

[MattG]

I'm waiting on the fronts to get done at Forgeline.. right now I'm rollin' two tone. lol

When you see both on the car you realize how different the two finishes make the car look, it's night and day. I will dig up a shot with both colors on the car.

Thanks Steve, looking forward to it!

[Steve1968LS2]

Thanks Steve, looking forward to it!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/k4xzli-1.jpg

[MattG]

boy, you weren't kidding about the difference. Those Mickies are HUGE!! I like the gunmetal better by the way...

Thanks for the update Steve, I love the wheel choice so now I can copy them and act like a genius at the local cruise in for making the perfect choice on my wheels, Ha! :bananna2:

Matt

[Frankenstine]

good choice Steve, on the gunmetal centers, looks sweeeeeeeeeet

[Steve1968LS2]

Thanks guys.. can't wait until the new fronts show up.. BTW.. front wheels are for sale if anyone is interested..

Spent the day FINALLY installing my Safecraft Halon fire system.. uses a 5-lb bottle.. two emitters in the engine bay and one under the dash... better safe than sorry and I'm surprised more people don't run one given the cost of the system versus the cost of a burnt down car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/6f06t2-1.jpg

[Rileys68Camaro]

PM sent.

[racedaddy]

Do you have to have an oxygen mask if you have to deploy the Halon or do you think you'll have time to hold your breath and get out?

[LUACE]

not to get off subject... but is that a tiger cage you have? noticed the bolt in bar...

[OLDFLM]

Thanks guys.. can't wait until the new fronts show up.. BTW.. front wheels are for sale if anyone is interested..

Spent the day FINALLY installing my Safecraft Halon fire system.. uses a 5-lb bottle.. two emitters in the engine bay and one under the dash... better safe than sorry and I'm surprised more people don't run one given the cost of the system versus the cost of a burnt down car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/6f06t2-1.jpg

Steve,

Pics of the emitters/location etc. please...

[David Pozzi]

Reading this: http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm
The FAA still recommends it for Aircraft, it's way more effective than other products LB for LB.

[BuzzKillian]

That is a Tiger Cage... Or at least the LOGO for it on the bracket.
As far as the fire retardants go... I have unfortunatly had the oppertunity to taste both Halon and dry chemical....:barf: I'll take Halon any day. AND If possible, I would hold my breath...

[Payton King]

Not to speak for Steve, but he does not have a Tiger Cage in his car. Cage was done years before he bought the car for drag racing. I am gong to guess what you see is the Tiger Cage clamps used to hold the bar to mount the fire system.

[BuzzKillian]

I am gong to guess what you see is the Tiger Cage clamps used to hold the bar to mount the fire system.

That was my assumption... my mistake.

[shortrack]

Driving the NASCAR oval was the best part of hitting the NMCA drag event..



OMG!!!!!!!!

Hang in there....I'll call my pal Buddy Baker and we'll work on your set up! haha!

[Steve1968LS2]

OMG!!!!!!!!

Hang in there....I'll call my pal Buddy Baker and we'll work on your set up! haha!

Sign me up... I could always use the help!

[Steve1968LS2]

Do you have to have an oxygen mask if you have to deploy the Halon or do you think you'll have time to hold your breath and get out?

Suffocate or burn to death?? tough choice?

Actually it's a slow the car, pull handle and bail the f out deal.. And even the eco FA36 stuff displaces O2, .. don't want to breath either. Right now only the two emitters in the engine bay are hooked up, the one in the pass compartment is capped off until I run the last line, which is mostly up under the dash.

[OLDFLM]

Steve,

Pics of the emitters/location etc. please...


:confused: :pics2: :hmm: :dunno:

[Steve1968LS2]

I will shoot the emitter deal tonight ... promise!

[Steve1968LS2]

Ran BP in the half mile.. best run was 148.9 which is pretty good for an NA car at 2800 feet.

psjzm0wgKCE

[devwil68]

COOL! sounds nice bouncing of the limiter.

[Steve1968LS2]

Shane sent me this vid of the Camaro making my best pass.. damn wind noise...

H0ZFy2_JY_w

[go-fish]

Steve, a little OT but I just read where Jon said you run R888 and have had them swap from brand to brand for you. Wondering if you could give any input on the difference between R888 and Nitto NT05's if you have tried them.

Mostly for street comparison. Life span/tread wear. Noise. I know we don't get a lot of rain in SoCal (it's actually raing here in S.D. right now though!LOL), but have you had BP in the rain on R888? Scary or manageable?

[johnny68]

[QUOTE=go-fish;842519]Steve, a little OT but I just read where Jon said you run R888 and have had them swap from brand to brand for you. Wondering if you could give any input on the difference between R888 and Nitto NT05's if you have tried them.

Noise.QUOTE]
noise john like youd be able to hear your tires while driving your cude haha lol

[go-fish]

noise john like youd be able to hear your tires while driving your cude haha lol

You've got a point John. Not having carpet and exhaust dumped where it is kind of makes that a "mute" question, LOL. I kill myself!

My main concern is tire life. I love the look of the R888's but I don't want to have to purchase them at a rate of 2:1 over NT05's.

[Atomic 67]

Steve,

Glad to hear you are adding to Penny....it just seems to never stop. I finally broke down and I'm putting a DSE cage in this week. This was a result of finding cracks in my subframe where the Chassisworks, 4 link attaches to frame. After Sandhills event it really made me think more about safety too. My boy Blue, David Sloan is still giddy about driving Penny. I hope to make it out your way next year so I can experience the glitz of the West Coast scene. Hope you are doing well...missed you at RTTH.

Brad

[sebtarta]

Congrats for Bad Penny being featured at Top Gear US.

[andrewb70]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBLkZQHXyDQ

[David Sloan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBLkZQHXyDQ

nice Sure would like to drive this one again

[thedugan]

Does anyone know what shifter handle Penny has? I like the design and want to get one.

[thedugan]

Wow, its been a year almost to the day and Im in the garage thinking whatever happened to Bad Penny. Never hear a thing on the car. The shifter I have figured out but I guess now my question is where is info on whats up with the car. Pics, stories, something. Such a famous pro-touring car yet its gone missing.

[andrewb70]

Wow, its been a year almost to the day and Im in the garage thinking whatever happened to Bad Penny. Never hear a thing on the car. The shifter I have figured out but I guess now my question is where is info on whats up with the car. Pics, stories, something. Such a famous pro-touring car yet its gone missing.

Presumably, the new owner is enjoying the car!!!

Andrew

[MuscleRodz]

I'm guessing Yancy John's has it again, but not for certain. Its never been far from Steve's hands.