Autocross advice wanted ...

[hotrod69camaro]

I'm going to try my first ever autocross soon. I have a 69 Camaro, the back is Quadra linked, 315/17 tires. The front, Speed Tech A arms relocated with Guldstrand mod , QA1 coil over conversion, upgraded power steering system, 245/17 front tires. Subframe connectors. Like to hear from any and all that have advice on setup, driving technique. Love to hear from David and/or Mary. Carl C Tony H or Mark S. Thanks for your input.............Mike

[JEFFTATE]

What kind of tires do you have ?
What is the treadwear rating ?
The available grip makes a lot of difference.

[motorheadmike]

Get this:

http://www.soloracer.com/solosecrets.html

Then get your hands on some chalk, an air pump and a tire pressure gauge. A friend with a good video camera will help as well.

Take your time on your first few laps; and I mean TAKE YOUR TIME! You won't be able to read and navigate the cones as fast as you would the tarmac on a road course.

Don't try and impress everyone with the cubic dollars in your parts... impress them with your ability to ask questions and request ride alongs (both in their cars and in yours).

[mpozzi]

Get this:

http://www.soloracer.com/solosecrets.html

Then get your hands on some chalk, an air pump and a tire pressure gauge. A friend with a good video camera will help as well.

Take your time on your first few laps; and I mean TAKE YOUR TIME! You won't be able to read and navigate the cones as fast as you would the tarmac on a road course.

Don't try and impress everyone with the cubic dollars in your parts... impress them with your ability to ask questions and request ride alongs (both in their cars and in yours).

Great advice here ...

As you've never ever autocrossed before, tell the folks at registration as they'll partner you up with someone experienced. The So. Cal. area is rich with excellent autocrossers and Solo 2 National Champions.

As for your car, there's not much to change from what you mentioned. What rear tires are being used and most important, what brand and model. You definitely want to go with a treadwear rating of 100 or less (preferably less) for autocrossing. If the tires are handling dual duty (street and autocross), then think closer to that 100 treadwear. Both Nitto and Toyo make tires that will fit your wheels yet offer some fun times. Raise the tire pressures to at least 35 psi, preferably 40, for start pressures. Use the chalk or white shoe polish to check for sidewall flex and roll.

Try for about 1-1.5 negative camber, as much positive caster as you can get, and 1/16-1/32"" toe-in. If you're worried about excessive tire wear on the street then err on the conservative side for camber. Toe is what really kills tires so be very accurate there.

There's also an autocross school coming to the El Toro base that's very good. I hope to come down there and take the Level 1 (everyone starts there regardless if they're new or been to Nationals a hundred times). Evolution Driving Schools hosts it.

Get to the event early. Your car will probably be placed in either E Street Prepared or C Prepared as it's definitely not stock (and a stock '69 Camaro would handle awful ...). Most autocross events go "hot" around 9am so get there at 7:30. You'll need to register, have your car teched, and then walk the course. Walk the course at least three times and do this with someone experienced. Most events have a "novice coursewalk" that's conducted by someone good so take advantage of this. Getting there early also usually gives you a good pit space. Make sure to clean out the car before you leave for the event as you don't want anything loose running around your feet while on course. You might also have a specific run group. And you'll also have to work the event. If you work before you run, work the course as you'll get to see several corners from an entirely different vantage point.

When you're walking the course, walk as if you're in the driver's seat, i.e. give that four+ feet room on the right side of the cones. Look ahead and think about what your car is doing NOW. Plan where you want to brake, transition back to the throttle, and then exit that corner onto the next. Think about the course as sections, not individual corners. A mistake takes time as you have to reposition the car and get it back into compliance, reacquire the track, and continue from there. And the fastest autocrossers will look very slow as they're smooth. Drivers that are sliding and locking up wheels will look impressive to a newbie but will be slow.

And don't abuse the equipment. The sliding/locking wheels isn't good use of the car and there's no reason for it. Listen to the car as they communicate what's happening to a driver very well. Think about being proactive instead of reactive. If you want the car to rotate, then set it up and drive it accordingly.

Your first run should be your slowest (you'll probably get three, possibly four runs) as that's the one you use to learn the course, where you go, how the corners are linked into sections, etc. Work up to speed from there and don't worry about hitting cones. If you're going through a section well, don't try to go faster but work on improving the other parts that you didn't do as well.

And look up ... can't stress this enough.

Know this is long and you'll love this sport. And keep the questions coming ...

Cheers and enjoy,
Mary Pozzi

[Lowend]

You running an Automatic Trans?

[critter]

Only done it once but I learned a valuable lesson. Slower is often faster. Don't over drive the car.

[vanzuuk1]

Smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooth.

[Weldon0405]

Gotta agree with everyone here. Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.

[hotrod69camaro]

Thanks everyone I'm trying to absorb all this info. More about the car. It is a street car. Tires are Dunlop 8000 series rear and 8080 series front. I dont know any of the traction specs, if you do let me know if I made a good choice or not. The autocross I'm going to do is at the Goodguys in Costa Mesa. Also how do I find out about the event at El Toro Mary? When I had the car aligned I used some pretty agressive specs I got fron Carl C. As I remember I went fairly agressive with camber and I think its got 1/16 toe out as I remember. The car is automatic trans now. Soon to have a Tremec. I think for a rookie, auto will be good for 1st time. I looked at the Dunlop site it looks like the tires have treadwear of 200. Too hard huh.

[mpozzi]

Thanks everyone I'm trying to absorb all this info. More about the car. It is a street car. Tires are Dunlop 8000 series rear and 8080 series front. I dont know any of the traction specs, if you do let me know if I made a good choice or not. The autocross I'm going to do is at the Goodguys in Costa Mesa. Also how do I find out about the event at El Toro Mary? When I had the car aligned I used some pretty agressive specs I got fron Carl C. As I remember I went fairly agressive with camber and I think its got 1/16 toe out as I remember. The car is automatic trans now. Soon to have a Tremec. I think for a rookie, auto will be good for 1st time. I looked at the Dunlop site it looks like the tires have treadwear of 200. Too hard huh.

No problem and the cool thing about autocrossing is you can take it in steps. The Goodguys autocross is held by Ride Tech (Air Ride Technologies) and the course is pretty small as they don't have a lot of space to work with. From past years, the times have been under 20 seconds but the good thing is you get as many runs as time permits. I haven't run their autocrosses but hear very good things about them and that they're fun. Also a great place to socialize with other gearheads like us.

I hope to be down at the Costa Mesa Goodguys next year and look me up.

Toe-out will help with corner entry but will also promote some tire wear. Err on the side of caution and zero the toe if you get the steering aligned as your tires will love you. For a course of this size with tight turns at low speeds, turn-in isn't as critical. Increase tire pressures to about 35 psi. And the good thing is ART specifies a treadwear limit so you're not competing against R-comp shod cars. Your 200's should be fine.

An automatic trans is not a liability and can be an advantage as you can left foot brake. I've never gotten the hang of this but most of the fast guys swear by it. For me, I swear AT it ... but then that's why I'm going to the school I mentioned earlier. I'll send you a PM once I get more information and the date I'll be there.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[CarlC]

Mary is the Queen Bee of AC and HPDE's. I've learned a ton from her and David.

It's all about the line. Slow down, go faster. Listen, ask questions, watch others.

I would not worry about the front alignment too much. With that much rear tire you will likely need as much front bite as possible.

One of the tools that David gave me that I watch again and again is is the video "How to Autocross." I learn something every time I watch it, and then try to apply, even if it's just driving on the street.

[DarkBuddha]

I'll offer a bit of advice no one else bothered with... probably because they've been doing it so long that they've forgotten:

Don't worry about looking like an idiot, because you will. Everyone does their first time out, so go ahead and get it out of the way, get rid of the embarrassment (and you will feel embarrassed), look foolish, and then take a deep breath and remember you're there to have fun. Only after you've gone through that will any of the advice people posted above start to have real value.

Other than that, there's plenty of good advice here to keep you occupied for your next 10 auto-x sessions.

Good luck and have fun!

[mpozzi]

And we have a LOT of grins and giggles, too.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=18114

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[Lowend]

No helmet on the auto-x video... for shame :D

I've been auto-xing for 10 years now and make an ass out of myself at least once every event. If you don't do something stupid every once in awhile you aren't pushing hard enough

[6'9"Witha69]

I would not worry about the front alignment too much. With that much rear tire you will likely need as much front bite as possible.This is one of the first thing I noticed as well.

Also, remember to walk the course. Get the idea of the course layout first off.

[Derek69SS]

In slow, Out fast.
In fast, Out backwards.

:bananna2:

[Chevy]

Mike,
Hope you aleady did your first event. Great advice here all around. I started Autocrossing my '68 Camaro late in 2007 so am still on the steep part of the learning curve. I chronical a lot of what i learned and a lot of my build in my blog (listed below in my sig). Also chronical all my mistakes, so hopefully others can avoid them. Folks here have been great! The most important thing though is to be smooth. Mary said it best, the fastest drivers will look slow because they are so smooth. Try non-violent application of the throttle and brakes--it's a little non-intuitive but transistion from throttle to brakes quickly but then apply them steadily rather than mashing into them. This upsets the car the least and allows for smooth driving, which is fast driving. To get tire pressure correct, buy a small hand-held IR thermometer and shoot the tires right after a run. If they are hot in the middle relative to outsides, you are running too much pressure. There are other rules of thumb for tire pressure and alignment you can glean from tire temps, so this is a good tool.

Have fun!

Paul

[mpozzi]

Hi Paul,

Great advice as well and turns out we have a mutual friend ... Ann Hollis. She says it's a very small world ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[JEFFTATE]

I noticed that if I go into a curve easy and power out of the curve , I run faster times.
In other words , don't brake too late.
Don't run wide open all the way deep into a curve and then stomp the brakes and turn the wheel.
I have a bad habit of doing this and all it does is slide the front tires sideways.
I found that if I go in soft and come out hard , I run better times.
These front engine musclecars are nose heavy anyway , and its easy to induce undertsteer by overpowering the front tires and breaking them loose.

[Nessumsar]

So glad you asked this question Hotrod, as this event will be my fist as well. Only my car isn't nearly as hooked up as your car!

The chalk is an awesome idea, going to run over to the vacant parking lot later!

[Chevy]

Hi Paul,

Great advice as well and turns out we have a mutual friend ... Ann Hollis. She says it's a very small world ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

Mary,
Not to thread jack but yes, it's a very small world, i just met Ann last weekend, what a great gal. I think she also met Tony H at a recent event, and we both know Jennifer Lee from Hawaii, so we had like one degree of separation three times over.

My first time out with the Spokes club as i just moved to the Austin area from Hawaii! I was out of the autocrossing game for a few months while i got my house in order and shipped all of my stuff (including three cars: my two f-bodies and the wife's baby hauler) across the Pacific! Was delightful to meet Ann and her husband and have her introduce me to the Austin autocrossing scene. I blogged about it on my website. I'm planning to join them at the next outing in the Camaro. First time out on my new Forgelines and Hoosiers!

PS loved the video of you in Bad Penny!

Paul

[ks71z28]

Anyone know the minimu tread wear for the Goodguy's events? Mary will you be at the Pleasanton event at the end of May? I will be there, but all I have are R compound tires one is a 50 and the other is a 100 treadwear, I hope not to buy another set of tires, anyone need sone 275/40/71 Kuhmo v710's with about 4 events on them?

thanks

keith

[lt1chevelle]

i think its 180



Anyone know the minimu tread wear for the Goodguy's events? Mary will you be at the Pleasanton event at the end of May? I will be there, but all I have are R compound tires one is a 50 and the other is a 100 treadwear, I hope not to buy another set of tires, anyone need sone 275/40/71 Kuhmo v710's with about 4 events on them?

thanks

keith

[mpozzi]

Yes, it's 180 treadwear but any car that gets in to Good Guys can run the autocross. If the tires are below 180 TW, run exhibition class. We'll be there with the Camaro. I have a set of Kumho Ecsta MX's (220 treadwear) that will fit your wheels. I'll sell them pretty cheap and they have about 3,000 miles total on them.

The V710's are 30 treadwear ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[PT Sportwagon]

When I autocrossed in a 85 2wd S-10 blazer I never ran fast but took 2nd place in points for the season. Take advantage of other racers. they are a great source of knowledge. We had an older guy( like in his 70s) who ran a Lotus 7. He would make it look effortless on the track.
I was at an event that he showed up late and didn't know of the stop box at the end of the course. He blew his two official runs. Came back and totally blew the doors off everyone on the buck runs after.
Watch the other racers, observe there lines, braking points etc. especially if someone is running a car symilur to yours. even ask an experienced driver for a ride, some will give you a ride. After the event if they have buck runs offer to pay the doller for a ride. it will give you the experience of observing how another driver handles the track.

Tim

[Vegas69]

Great thread..I'm taking my car out for it's first Autocross Sunday. One thing I didn't see mentioned was shock set up. I have adjustables on all four corners. I've left the front alone since it feels great but I've been playing with the rear shocks. I have them fairly firm right now. What is best starting point soft or firm? Forward bite is probabaly going to be my biggest obstacle.

[James OLC]

I'll leave it for the experts correct me later but what I was told... you want good weight transfer front to back - you want the suspension to work - so a soft shock setting is a good starting point. If you get a chance to watch some video of some the better cars at the last couple of Goodguys shows (ie. either of the DSE cars) you can see very obvious weight transfer under braking and acceleration. This should be helping to maintain contact all the way around the track and keep things predictable.

[Vegas69]

I'll start on the softest setting and go from there. Thanks for the advice.

[Vegas69]

I ended up with my front shocks fully stiff for body roll and my rears about 2/3rds. Car looked pretty flat on the video.

[ks71z28]

I'll leave it for the experts correct me later but what I was told... you want good weight transfer front to back - you want the suspension to work - so a soft shock setting is a good starting point. If you get a chance to watch some video of some the better cars at the last couple of Goodguys shows (ie. either of the DSE cars) you can see very obvious weight transfer under braking and acceleration. This should be helping to maintain contact all the way around the track and keep things predictable.
Last season I tried the weight transfer method, and the car was very slow to respond in turn in, and pushed a bit. Autocross is pretty slow speeds, and a real dialed muscle car set up for autoX may be a bit tail happy on a roadcourse. I since tightened up the roll with the sway bars, added some more rear bar to turn the car, and I am Way quicker and the push is much better. Also 2* of camber. Remember slow is fast, look ahead, and don't drive to hard into the corners. It has taken several season to dial the car in and more to come I'm sure, so be patient, and enjoy the process of improving your car

[Lowend]

front to rear weight transfer = bad
You don't want the nose of the car pitching around or diving under braking. Nice slow (read barely visable) consistant movement is the key.
And yes to be competitve in a big heavy American car you do need to setup with A LOT of oversteer. If the tail starts coming out, stay on the throttle and hold SLOWLY countersteer. If you suddly let off the throttle, the tail will come around