View Full Version : Old Project Needs A New Skin
Brian46
10-31-2008, 11:32 AM
I have been a member for a while but not posted, my project took a wrong turn and hopefully I can get it back on track.
http://i38.tinypic.com/15fnlmb.jpg
I am sure some of you know what this machine in the above pic is, for those who don't...... It is a mill build gage for measuring the depth of bodywork (it uses sonar to measure the depth of bodywork). As I have been told, a new fender with Emt coat will read .8mill or less, collision repair standards are 10-15mill, Rust restoration/classic restoration standards are 20-25mill these are maximum worst case specifications on small areas.
My car was acid dipped and all metal work was done, the car was supposed to have been metal finished........ The mill gage shows different, average reading on my car is 50mill with some areas so deep it can not read them.
Here is some pics to show you the filler and rust issues.
http://i35.tinypic.com/2e1dk6w.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/2j18wew.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/30j193b.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/1z3p1cj.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/552m83.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/a0dl01.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/2yo692g.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/6xvnmw.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/5pn22v.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/aue0qv.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/15d5jjk.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/25u2z6b.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/2j2z1j7.jpg
Brian46
10-31-2008, 11:32 AM
pcs too big, fixed above
rjsjea
10-31-2008, 01:24 PM
Where was your car (shop name) when they did this?
I am assuming they know of your complaints and have not replied as you would like.....
Brian46
10-31-2008, 01:47 PM
Where was your car (shop name) when they did this?
I am assuming they know of your complaints and have not replied as you would like.....I will not post that information unless the site moderators/administrators will allow it.
rjsjea
10-31-2008, 01:53 PM
Are you looking for a new shop to fix the previous work then?
Looks like it probably needs to be stripped down as you have no idea what was done to it. I hate body shop horror stories......sorry to see what was done. It looks unacceptable..
Brian46
10-31-2008, 02:15 PM
I am just posting it as a build thread, hope to get some helpfull tips as how to fix it as I go. I take it that this is not normal for a shop to do on a high dollar build?
While it's not normal at all for any professional shop to lay filler that thick, unfortunately shops like that are everywhere. I am amazed at your depth measurement of .357. That filler is almost 3/8" thick. :eek: It will certainly crack and fall off. It's obvious that the shop cut corners to avoid doing the work properly and now sadly, you are going to have to pay to redo the car. I can help with your situation, but the car will have to be stripped to bare steel again. Feel free to contact me for assistance if you like.
Thanks,
Nick @ MWCC
www.m-w-c-c.com (http://www.m-w-c-c.com)
Brian46
11-01-2008, 01:12 PM
While it's not normal at all for any professional shop to lay filler that thick, unfortunately shops like that are everywhere. I am amazed at your depth measurement of .357. That filler is almost 3/8" thick. :eek: It will certainly crack and fall off. It's obvious that the shop cut corners to avoid doing the work properly and now sadly, you are going to have to pay to redo the car. I can help with your situation, but the car will have to be stripped to bare steel again. Feel free to contact me for assistance if you like.
Thanks,
Nick @ MWCC
www.m-w-c-c.com (http://www.m-w-c-c.com)Thanks for the offer, I am in Langley,BC...Canada. I think shipping will kill anything that I might save. Stripping the car is going to be a costly affair, the blaster can said he can only do certain areas, filler is too thick in most places he said. I also looked into acid dipping the car again, but the box liner stuff on the underside (never seen box liner as ugly or thick) has to be manually removed befor dipping, plus the dipping is a costly affair here since only one place can do it. Got any other ideas on stripping the car down?
awr68
11-01-2008, 04:10 PM
Since you are on a budget, I would buy a d/a sander, some 36 and 80 grade paper and go to town!
That won't take a lot of money, alittle time....but you will be able to move forward with a new shop! You actually lucky the car wasn't painted....that would have slowed down the process! Also, this wont effect the bottom of the car like dipping it would have.
Best of luck!!
Brian46
11-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Since you are on a budget, I would buy a d/a sander, some 36 and 80 grade paper and go to town!
That won't take a lot of money, alittle time....but you will be able to move forward with a new shop! You actually lucky the car wasn't painted....that would have slowed down the process! Also, this wont effect the bottom of the car like dipping it would have.
Best of luck!!Thank you for the comments. The bottom of the car has to be stripped as well, there were no brackets made for exhaust, fuel lines, brake lines, etc. Actually none of these parts were even fabricated before they box lined and painted the underside.....hmmmm????
There is even filler in the new trans tunnel that was fabricated, it is over the reading capability of the guage.
awr68
11-01-2008, 05:02 PM
The bottom of the car has to be stripped as well, there were no brackets made for exhaust, fuel lines, brake lines, etc. Actually none of these parts were even fabricated before they box lined and painted the underside.....hmmmm????
Those parts are usually fastened to a finished car using hardware. I wouldn't strip the bottom for that reason alone.
I'm not saying that mocking up systems before paint isn't a good idea....but things like fuel lines, brake lines, and exhaust brackets are usually fastened to the car after paint...not welded to the chassis.
Brian46
11-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Those parts are usually fastened to a finished car using hardware. I wouldn't strip the bottom for that reason alone.
I'm not saying that mocking up systems before paint isn't a good idea....but things like fuel lines, brake lines, and exhaust brackets are usually fastened to the car after paint...not welded to the chassis.I understand they use hardware to mount, but there is no hardware, or provisions in the body to mount it to wether it be holes, mounting tabs, nut certs, nothing is there, just a thick layer of box liner. I hope you are not suggetsing to just use self taping screws allover the place to mount things on a high dollar car. Even drilling holes for the fuel and brake line routing on a finish painted car is not the way to get a quality job is it?
awr68
11-01-2008, 06:43 PM
Yes mounting studs would be nice, I agree! But to be honest many drill and touch up the paint during assembly.
Are you capable of doing any of this yourself? Even if you had to clean off a few spots to weld on studs the liner can be touched up.
Just trying to get you on the positive track here! When the guys turned the energy around on my deal good things started happening! :)
Bill Howell
11-01-2008, 06:54 PM
I will not post that information unless the site moderators/administrators will allow it.
I think it is best if you keep that info and beef between yourself and the shop involved since no one else knows all the facts.
Thanks,
Oh, and if this is going to be a build thread, I will be happy to move it there for you if you like. It will get much more attention there than here I think.
Brian46
11-01-2008, 07:02 PM
I think it is best if you keep that info and beef between yourself and the shop involved since no one else knows all the facts.
Thanks,
Oh, and if this is going to be a build thread, I will be happy to move it there for you if you like. It will get much more attention there than here I think.I had no intention on naming names unless it was allowed. I introduced the project here since it was new, moving it sounds good if I will get some helpfull advice.
Brian46
11-01-2008, 07:11 PM
Yes mounting studs would be nice, I agree! But to be honest many drill and touch up the paint during assembly.
Are you capable of doing any of this yourself? Even if you had to clean off a few spots to weld on studs the liner can be touched up.
Just trying to get you on the positive track here! When the guys turned the energy around on my deal good things started happening! :)don't get me wrong, I try and think positive, I even have a member from another site coming to look at it to see if he or his shop can help. I can do pretty much anything mechanical if I have the tools at hand (cert ASE tech for a number of years) except for paint and body. But every time I lift the car cover it sucks the right track out of me.
awr68
11-01-2008, 07:26 PM
Trust me (you know what I've been threw!), if it is truely needed, stripping the car will make you feel much better! Get out the d/a and don't stop untill it's done! You will be happier looking at bare metal that what is depressing you at the moment!
I would have a few people look at it first just to make sure it all has to be stripped. But most guys would rather start from bare metal.
Get that done and to a shop ASAP, got to get the fire back into the build....it worked for me!!
Grumpy Old Man
11-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Been lurking here for a while and felt like I needed to chime in here.
I have a couple of questions:
I saw some your posts regarding this situation over on Lateral-g.net, did you create an account here simply to rake someone over the coals or what?
I'm wondering what the status was of the build when you decided to take it out of the shop? I mean were things still progressing? Was the billing/payment schedule being kept to by both sides?
Is what we are looking at the finished product or still a work in progress?
Was the rust overlooked or just not gotten to yet?
I have personally seen a lot of work that has come out of the shop in question and it is top notch work from what I saw and what I have seen at SEMA.
Not entirely to my taste, but the work did not look anything like what I see in those pictures and each owner I have spoken with has had nothing but good to say about them.
There are a lot things that can impact a build. From both sides (customer/builder). Seems like we are only hearing one side of this....and may not be hearing all of that side.
Flash68
11-02-2008, 12:00 PM
Been lurking here for a while and felt like I needed to chime in here.
I have a couple of questions:
I saw some your posts regarding this situation over on Lateral-g.net, did you create an account here simply to rake someone over the coals or what?
I'm wondering what the status was of the build when you decided to take it out of the shop? I mean were things still progressing? Was the billing/payment schedule being kept to by both sides?
Is what we are looking at the finished product or still a work in progress?
Was the rust overlooked or just not gotten to yet?
I have personally seen a lot of work that has come out of the shop in question and it is top notch work from what I saw and what I have seen at SEMA.
Not entirely to my taste, but the work did not look anything like what I see in those pictures and each owner I have spoken with has had nothing but good to say about them.
There are a lot things that can impact a build. From both sides (customer/builder). Seems like we are only hearing one side of this....and may not be hearing all of that side.
Interesting that this is your first post Grumpy Old Man....
I have seen this shop's work at SEMA as well and it was nothing like this, but does that mean things cannot go awry as part of a bad deal? Who knows?
I also would like to see a more detailed response from the shop than the short vague one that was posted thru Jody over at Lateral G.
I really have no loyalties here and just want to find out what the hell happened with this whole clusterf*ck of a deal.
Grumpy Old Man
11-02-2008, 12:32 PM
I have built a few cars myself when I was younger (they didn't come out that well), and now that I can afford it I have had a few professionally built cars as well.
Two I bought complete, and the last two I had built. So I've been down the road a few times and know how situations can go sour or how they can go well.
Having experienced both sides of this, and been at fault myself a time or two, I can't help but think that Brian isn't giving us, as Mr. Paul Harvey says, "The rest of the story."
Brian46
11-02-2008, 12:47 PM
Been lurking here for a while and felt like I needed to chime in here.
I have a couple of questions:
I saw some your posts regarding this situation over on Lateral-g.net, did you create an account here simply to rake someone over the coals or what?
I'm wondering what the status was of the build when you decided to take it out of the shop? I mean were things still progressing? Was the billing/payment schedule being kept to by both sides?
Is what we are looking at the finished product or still a work in progress?
Was the rust overlooked or just not gotten to yet?
I have personally seen a lot of work that has come out of the shop in question and it is top notch work from what I saw and what I have seen at SEMA.
Not entirely to my taste, but the work did not look anything like what I see in those pictures and each owner I have spoken with has had nothing but good to say about them.
There are a lot things that can impact a build. From both sides (customer/builder). Seems like we are only hearing one side of this....and may not be hearing all of that side.I have been a member here since jan 2008, so no I didn't just join to rake someone over the coals.
If you are just posting to get this thread delete/removed go somewhere else, I can not go into details because it is against site rules, The pictures speak for themselves.
barno68
11-02-2008, 12:59 PM
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he every gave the name of the shop in this thread, so...
Bill Howell
11-02-2008, 01:04 PM
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he every gave the name of the shop in this thread, so...
I think most everyone watches the L-G board also and there was a similar thread over there a couple days ago.
Brian46
11-02-2008, 01:05 PM
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he every gave the name of the shop in this thread, so...correct, I have not mentioned names. It is someone who just joined the site to try and stir the pot.
Brian46
11-02-2008, 01:09 PM
I think most everyone watches the L-G board also and there was a similar thread over there a couple days ago.It is still there and I thank the sites for allowing me to post pictures of my project, ask questions and get helpfull tips.
Thanks,Brian
Grumpy Old Man
11-02-2008, 01:19 PM
Ok, fair enough you joined before me.
In that time you have 16 posts.
12 in this thread where you clearly have a bone to pick with "someone".
3 in the "how much to build a PT Camaro" thread in which you refer to this issue.
1 in the Bandit thread where you make a snide comment about a customer being happy with the work.
All posts made within the last 48hrs.
So clearly you have an axe to grind. That is your prerogative. But of equal clarity to me at least is the appearance that there might be more to this story than you are providing us with. I mean we are only hearing one side of this...and I can't help but think we aren't hearing the whole story.
I asked some simple questions above which you have yet to answer. Please do so.
I'm wondering what the status was of the build when you decided to take it out of the shop?
I mean were things still progressing?
Was the billing/payment schedule being kept to by both sides?
Is what we are looking at the finished product or still a work in progress?
Was the rust overlooked or just not gotten to yet?
Brian46
11-02-2008, 01:49 PM
replied via pm, I am not turning this into something that is going to get deleted/locked
dhutton
11-02-2008, 02:24 PM
[quote=Grumpy Old Man]
So clearly you have an axe to grind. quote]
And it is obvious that you also have an axe to grind. Not sure who you are but it is painfully clear that you you have a vested interest of some kind. It's impossible to believe you just happened onto this thread.
I normally steer clear of these sorts of threads but this is so wrong I had to speak up.
Don
Flash68
11-02-2008, 03:09 PM
[quote=Grumpy Old Man]
So clearly you have an axe to grind. quote]
And it is obvious that you also have an axe to grind. Not sure who you are but it is painfully clear that you you have a vested interest of some kind. It's impossible to believe you just happened onto this thread.
I normally steer clear of these sorts of threads but this is so wrong I had to speak up.
Don
Agreed! And we don't care really what Grumpy Man has to say because he has no reputation on this site or Lateral G or anywhere. 1st post and he calls out the original poster for being new. Ha.
We need to get some answers and explanations from the shop that did this work. We know he is busy SEMA but I think he will want to respond in kind here...
Restomod
11-02-2008, 04:38 PM
WAY to much drama from two guys with less than 30 posts between them........
Grumpy Old Man
11-02-2008, 04:55 PM
Not calling anyone out I just want to see everyone get a fair shake.
I mean if a shop genuinely did somebody wrong you guys would want to know right?
I know I would.
But if the car owner shares some measure of responsibility he ought to own up to that too.
The questions I asked seem valid enough. Not sure why they are being dodged.
I mean there are two sides to every story but you gotta hear ALL of both sides.
Flash68
11-02-2008, 04:59 PM
Not calling anyone out I just want to see everyone get a fair shake.
I mean if a shop genuinely did somebody wrong you guys would want to know right?
I know I would.
But if the car owner shares some measure of responsibility he ought to own up to that too.
The questions I asked seem valid enough. Not sure why they are being dodged.
I mean there are two sides to every story but you gotta hear ALL of both sides.
I agree 100% with these statements, Grumpy.
I just think your first post looked sorta suspicious and one-sided.
We all want to find out what really happened here.
Damn True
11-02-2008, 05:26 PM
Let's keep things civil here.
tellyv
11-02-2008, 08:20 PM
I think that both sides of the story should be told, I also think that many of the people here pay to get their cars built and they should know who is honest and trustworthy so they can pick a quality shop and not get screwed over. I am not taking sides as I do not know all of the facts I have seen the picks of the bandit and that car looks killer but you never know the situation of the build. So lets here both sides of the story.
awr68
11-02-2008, 08:55 PM
As you know that might not happen until next week as the builder is at SEMA.....
Brian46
11-02-2008, 11:41 PM
The questions I asked seem valid enough. Not sure why they are being dodged.
what question was not answered by the two links I sent you in the private message??? I also explained it is against site rules to get into details of exactly what is wrong because that is vendor bashing and not allowed.
TonyL
11-03-2008, 10:33 AM
Please guys. Keep all references to the name of the shop, or its owner out of the thread. I've already edited all the other references. From a legal standpoint I cannot have people implicating a shop when it's most likely going to result in some kind of legal action.
Thanks. Continue.
Brian46
11-03-2008, 02:22 PM
I will post this for the last time, This is a build thread with pictures of issues that my car has. If you want to know in depth details of who did what and who said what, don't bother posting the question. If you have an opinion about me or the shop, keep it to yourself please.
I made this post to get tips and comments from some of the professionals on here as my project continues.
TonyL
11-03-2008, 02:48 PM
Agreed Brian. Good luck on getting your project back on track.
/I'd grind it back to bare metal and start over. It'd be cathartic.
nin97
11-03-2008, 03:04 PM
i agree with TonyL
if it were my car i'd take it right back down to bare metal and do it proper
keep us posted!
Not trying to stir the pot, but I don't get it. Grumpy Old Man keeps hinting that the owner may have contributed to the problems the owner is complaining about - but I don't understand. If the owner dropped the car off at a shop and specified that the car be acid-dipped and metal finished, and then later finds out that there is a ton of plastic filler all over the car - how is that the owner's fault?
nin97
11-03-2008, 04:48 PM
Not trying to stir the pot, but I don't get it. Grumpy Old Man keeps hinting that the owner may have contributed to the problems the owner is complaining about - but I don't understand. If the owner dropped the car off at a shop and specified that the car be acid-dipped and metal finished, and then later finds out that there is a ton of plastic filler all over the car - how is that the owner's fault?
hey i agree with you 100%...but considering grumpy is a brand new member and it appears as if he joined specifically for this thread, i'm going to assume he has some type of vested interest in the matter and is trying to look out for the shop that did the work.
either way it seems as if brian46 is just trying to move on and wants to build his dream car the proper way...so i suggest we keep this thread clear of drama for his sake
Bill Howell
11-04-2008, 08:25 PM
I had a long talk today with the owner of the shop.
Bottom line is this, and pay close attention because this is not up for discussion from hence forth. The owner and the shop have very different views on the condition/potential/cost to get it right of the car that is in question.
Neither I nor any of you were at the shop when the car came in, when the car was somewhat stripped or in any of the negotiations. That said, it is neither any of our business nor our place to comment on issues where we DO NOT HAVE ALL THE FACTS. Furthermore, there is no reason for that to be fought out in public form. The proper course of action here if the two parties to iron this out is either in private or thru the court system. With that said, I am closing this thread and if the OP wants to start a new one about the project AS it progresses, that will be fine, as long as there is no reference to the past. I have read thru this thread once again, and I don't see any redeeming value to it.
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