Ready to puke

[ho428]

If I hear or read about one more "LS-whatever" swap I'm gonna puke. :barf:

Jeez where's the originality. It's getting as bad as the Street Rod crowd with the 350-350 combo's.
At least the 502 crate engines were kinda cool, but the LS everything is just getting worn out.
What else is being done out there? :smashcomp

Ok, :machine: away.

[JustinB]

:enguard: And the war begins.

[6'9"Witha69]

THe new wave in streetable power. Hot rod guys did what was affordable reliable and better off technologically from flatheads and other 20's and 30's tech. This is just the next evolutionary jump we are witnessing now.

I love my 383, but when it blows, it's LS for me too.

[Chad-1stGen]

Hey could you just go ahead and puke and when you are finished install and LS motor in my Camaro for me? :)

[project hotrod]

It's natural evolution. The next generation of the SBC..

Let's see.

15 degree valve angle
Aluminum block
Responds very well to modification
Can make good power and still be somewhat good on gas
It doesn't take too much to make an LS engine beat the pants
off of most of the 502 crates...
It's the best small block to date.

What do you expect to be the logical choice for a GM powered pro-touring car?

My road race car will have a LS motor based on those reasons alone.

Now, if I was building a traditional hot rod I would look for something
else.

[class67]

Can I get you a bucket?.....get used to it!

Just like Nick, I love my 383 as well but if / when it goes, I will be doing the same thing.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/megaface_oopsie-1.gif

[Samckitt]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

That is hilarious.

I am one of the odd ones that did an LT1 swap a long time ago & then kids came along so progress slowed down tremendously. If I had it to do all over again I would go LSx motor.

But the thing that bugs me about the LS series motors is the heads will bolt onto a small block Ford block with minimal modifications. Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

[Samckitt]

Small block ford with LS1 heads:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/IM000608-1.jpg

[bigvegan]

OK, how 'bout a 1st gen with the 4wd / twin-turbo setup from a Nissan GTR?

That one would make everybody cranky (especially since most of them would be behind you).

[Vegas69]

Love my big block and wouldn't change but I would definitely stab a LSX in mine before a small block chevy. I would have to go with a fancy intake setup or carb because I am not a fan of the stock intake. Other than that how can you argue with the weight and fuel savings.

[JustinB]

Love my big block and wouldn't change but I would definitely stab a LSX in mine before a small block chevy. I would have to go with a fancy intake setup or carb because I am not a fan of the stock intake. Other than that how can you argue with the weight and fuel savings.

ditto!!

[gordonquixote]

Kinda like going from a propeller to a jet engine. Yep, they both keep the plane up there, but don't you want a jet?

LOLZA!

[bobbaganoosh]

OK, how 'bout a 1st gen with the 4wd / twin-turbo setup from a Nissan GTR?

That one would make everybody cranky (especially since most of them would be behind you).
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/R34-Skyline-GTS4-with-LS1_95197.htm

[gmjj13]

i love my big block and don't think i could do an lsx. seems like everyone has one, not much originality there. maybe later i'll build anothr BBC, something with an aluminum block 600+cubes and twins, runnin pump gas. i guess i'm just old school like that. on the other hand, when the 350 goes in the belair, i may look at an ls motor as a replacement...

[HarleyR]

Next season or 2010 The SB2 will be a thing of the past in NASCAR.... They'll be a dime a dozen.....

[Samckitt]

Next season or 2010 The SB2 will be a thing of the past in NASCAR.... They'll be a dime a dozen.....

I thought the SB2 was a thing of the past right now. I thought they switched to the new motor towards the end of last season.

[Restomod]

But the thing that bugs me about the LS series motors is the heads will bolt onto a small block Ford block with minimal modifications. Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Thats not all that is Ford simillar, the cross bolt mains are to. :twothumbs
Yates did the design on the heads right??

[Rhino]

i love my big block and don't think i could do an lsx. seems like everyone has one, not much originality there....

Not to be nit-picky... but how "original" is the thought of restoring a '69 Camaro?

Just a light hearted jab from another 1st gen owner. :)

[gmjj13]

Not to be nit-picky... but how "original" is the thought of restoring a '69 Camaro?

Just a light hearted jab from another 1st gen owner. :)

point taken :cheers:

so, are you trying to say that i'm not the only one building a 69 camaro. say it isn't so...

[oestek]

Small block ford with LS1 heads:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/IM000608-1.jpg

Any of these running yet?

[dogtag]

Love my LS1 in the Olds.....It's pretty much stock except for the hedders and intake and I get 24mpg driving to the car shows. Not too bad for a 4000 lb car.

DT

[69TAPoser]

I think you Camaro guys should start putting classic Pontiac power in your chevy's...that would be different! :lmao:

Don't get me stared on the chevy powered Firebirds. :wedgie:

Phil

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey, I'm just getting ready to re-build my LS2.. does that work????

Oh wait.. sorry.. :(

HEY! I'm getting ready to build my 5.3 "LS" type engine for my other car... is that better???

Oh... sort of an LS engine too...

HEY!!!!!!!! I'm building a 496 big block today.. it will most like make less power than my LS2.. and it weights double what my 5.3 weighs.. but it's REALLY cool.. because it's BIG.. I mean really big.. and it's not very good for handling.. and gets horrific mileage.. but it's still cool.

I wonder if I could trade it for an LS7???

:D

[Steve1968LS2]

Why are you guys building V8s??? hell, that's so overdone.. everyone in here has a damn eight cylinder engine..

Show some creativity!

[WILWAXU]

Look out.. Steve is just getting Rev'd up :screwy:

[Steve1968LS2]

Look out.. Steve is just getting Rev'd up :screwy:

:bananna2:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

looks like we outnumber you.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

ahhahahah!

[class67]

looks like we outnumber you.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

ahhahahah!


OOOOoooooo!

[DIK069]

I too struggled with this.

After waiting for the spare time/money to organize itself, and planning to do a 69 for years, I always envisaged myself going BB.

Now it's crunch time and I'll probably go LS, with old school big block capacity and more importantly, looks.

They are one ugly engine when standard.

I've just put a fresh 400 sb rather than ls in my ski boat, so at least part of me is holding to the ground roots. :cheers:

[nekkidhillbilly]

i run a buick for a reason

[ho428]

Buick is good. Pontiac, Olds, anything different.

Put a Caddy dual overhead cam engine in the Maro, Jag V-12, anything different. The dual turbos are cool, the multi port injections look good but the LS is getting way overdone. Yawn... same-o, same-o, big freakin deal, another first gen maro with an LS... like going to the prom with your sister. Oh that's right, Camaro guys do that anyway.

At least now I know where all the Streetrodders are getting all the 350-350 combos. Out of all the cookie cutter boring Camaros.

[HarleyR]

I thought the SB2 was a thing of the past right now. I thought they switched to the new motor towards the end of last season.
The cup cars run the R07.. but the Nationwide cars as well as trucks still run SB2's.

[derekf]

ho428, surely you're not putting a Pontiac engine in your Pontiac? That's soooo played out.. they've been doing that for years!:doh:

Seriously though - it should be expected. When the TPI engines were big in the mid/late 80s, they showed up in the cars in the magazines. When the LT1 hit, it became the engine to have. Now the LSx is here, and it's an extremely good engine. Is it any surprise that it's getting used?

[gordonquixote]

Stupid technology!!!!!!!!! LOL

[amx2334]

Why are you guys building V8s??? hell, that's so overdone.. everyone in here has a damn eight cylinder engine..

Show some creativity!

Gas burning internal combustion has been done to death. It's electric crate motors now.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[twosaturns]

I think it only SEEMS like LS motors are overdone. there are still a bunch of everyday folks buiding cars they way they have always done, SBC is all they know. hel l, I just saw a guy yesterday w/ a freshly done eary '80s camaro, air shocks, deep dish 'mags', the guy hasn't paid any attention since 1983.
my brother is the one that got me into cars; he is finishing up his '70 RS camaro. but, besides the 17" wheels, everything else is just the way it's always been, stroked 350, carb, slapper bars, lots of chrome. he is completely ignorant of electronics and the LS based stuff.
just because forums like this and the mags tout new tech and the LS, doesn't mean it's all that mainstream.

[tumper93]

I considered the LSx stuff when I was putting things together for my 383. I sold all the old "heavy" internal parts and Edelbrock heads and just had a block to go from. I ended up building the 383 just because it was the logical thing to do in my head. The LS stuff is super reliable and don't leak oil hardly ever but it wasn't what was under the hood my my 68 Camaro new. I would like to have an LS motor at times but all in all I am still old school as well. I put the good stuff in and made a hot running ride that is fun. If I destroy the 383 in the future then yea I may sit and ponder the swap again!! I like both and am pulled in both directions.

[ho428]

ho428, surely you're not putting a Pontiac engine in your Pontiac? That's soooo played out.. they've been doing that for years!:doh:

Seriously though - it should be expected. When the TPI engines were big in the mid/late 80s, they showed up in the cars in the magazines. When the LT1 hit, it became the engine to have. Now the LSx is here, and it's an extremely good engine. Is it any surprise that it's getting used?

Yeah, just another boring Ram Air V, Hydraulic roller, dual quad Carters with long Branch RA manifolds everyday run of the mill Pontiac engine in the White Car.
366 Pontiac with a forged bottom end in the road race car. I know, everyone races with a Pontiac.
Building an OHC 4 barrel Sprint-6 for the Convertible. Yeah, I know, you see them everyday but I already had one.

Nah, really. I know the LS technology is good and glad to see advances in engine design, but it gets boring to look at and read about. My taste are a little old school anyway but the Pro-tour is the next big thing like Pro Street was/is.
The trick suspensions of PT I do like, not crazy about rubberband tires and big wheels old F bodys though. Looks better on the A's.
But cookie cutter LS swaps from an outsider looking in is about as boring as seeing a row of 32 fords with 350's in them. From 20 feet they look cool, up close not so much.
For someone building a real driver it makes sense though. Only my convertible could be considered a long haul driver. The others are toys.

[Bow Tie 67]

" but it gets boring to look at and read about.

But cookie cutter LS swaps from an outsider looking in is about as boring as seeing a row of 32 fords with 350's in them. From 20 feet they look cool, up close not so much.

For someone building a real driver it makes sense though. "


LS1, Drivablility = I take it out alot more than my old school sbc. No warm up just turn key and GO!!

Looks = It grew on me, after feeling the power from a stock engine the look just goes with it.

Being different = Who gives a flying F*** I built mine to enjoy, as in using it for what it was meant. It's a Car people Drive Them!!!!

Right now mine is being driven while it goes through its build stages. Hell I put it into a tire wall a week ago, Oh friggen well, now I'm looking for good track tires so I can push it harder.

Plain and simple if you want the newer car drivability the LSX can not be beat!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

ho428, surely you're not putting a Pontiac engine in your Pontiac? That's soooo played out.. they've been doing that for years!:doh:

Seriously though - it should be expected. When the TPI engines were big in the mid/late 80s, they showed up in the cars in the magazines. When the LT1 hit, it became the engine to have. Now the LSx is here, and it's an extremely good engine. Is it any surprise that it's getting used?

If you get your LS engine from a new GTO or Trans Am is a Pontiac engine?

[toxicz28]

If you get your LS engine from a new GTO or Trans Am is a Pontiac engine?

That's great!!:lol: :lmao: :woot:

[ho428]

If you want some cheap track tires, hang out at the tire hauler at a NASA or HRS event. Eventually someone will trade in some decent used tires your size for new. The tire guy will give them to you rather than having to haul off and dispose. I got my first set that way, probably get a few more track days out of them. If you're not tracking that often it's a cheap alternative to new.

[ho428]

If you get your LS engine from a new GTO or Trans Am is a Pontiac engine?

Still an LS swap.

A friend installed one from a TA in his 67 bird, looks wierd in there. And yes, he claims it's a Pontiac engine.

[class67]

ho428, your fighting a losing battle here I think! kind of like pissing up a rope, spinning your wheels or talking to a wall. lol

[Steve Chryssos]

Sometime in the history of our hobby--probably back in the mid sixties-- dudes with flatheads said the same thing about the small block Chevy. But those guys also intentionally put grease in their hair and listened to doo-wop music. :barf:

For the record, you CAN build a gen one small block with 14 degree, symmetrical port, raised runner heads and an aluminum block. You can do it with one phone call to Brodix, Dart or a coupla other firms. It'll generate the same specific output per cube as an LS motor. But because LS engines fall off of production assembly lines, the horsepower per dollar comparison cannot be beat.

Someday LS fanatics will complain about those new-fangled oscillation overthruster engines that run on urine and make 400HP per litre while returning 100 miles per gallon.

[Steve1968LS2]

ho428, your fighting a losing battle here I think! kind of like pissing up a rope, spinning your wheels or talking to a wall. lol\

What's wrong with talking to walls????? :rolleyes:

[Joey316G]

The LSX family is the best thing to happen to car crafting since the 350 Chevy. You can say the same for the 85-92 TPI setup. In the mid to late 80s, if you were building a street rod, that was the ticket. It was also very attractive too. The LT1 never really caught on due to the looks most likely, crazy water pump and accessories but the LS1 just screams swap me with its sexy intakes, all aluminum design not to mention its reliablity and an the fact that is stupid easy to make power with. Power than you can drive anywhere at any time in any weather condition. For pro touring cars that are driven on and off throttle in stop and go conditions, theres not substitute...although I do have a Grand National engine awaiting a home..hmmm interesting.:naughty:

[Vegas69]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you think. It's my damn car and if it makes my ***** hard that's all that matters. Having good taste is good for resale.

[Rhino]

Still an LS swap.

A friend installed one from a TA in his 67 bird, looks wierd in there. And yes, he claims it's a Pontiac engine.

The VIN in my TA sourced LS1 PCM says mine's a Pontiac. Because it was originally purposed for another division doesn't make it exclusively that make.

The Bird and Camaro shared an enormous amount of parts. Does that mean that the Pontiac is 75% Chevy, with only the interior and body panels being true Pontiac pieces?

[ho428]

ho428, your fighting a losing battle here I think! kind of like pissing up a rope, spinning your wheels or talking to a wall. lol

Yeah I know, but it's been kinda dead around here. The pot needed stirring.

[Jimmy Sean]

Yeah I know, but it's been kinda dead around here. The pot needed stirring.

just because.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ho428]

The VIN in my TA sourced LS1 PCM says mine's a Pontiac. Because it was originally purposed for another division doesn't make it exclusively that make.

The Bird and Camaro shared an enormous amount of parts. Does that mean that the Pontiac is 75% Chevy, with only the interior and body panels being true Pontiac pieces?

I'd beg to differ, at least on the First Gen parts. Having gone through several FGF they're are a lot fewer same parts than you'd think. A lot will fit either car but are not the same parts.
Sometimes you have no choice though and it's good they'll interchange.

But as long as it runs dinosaur fuel and not plug into a wall, it's all good.

[Samckitt]

\

What's wrong with talking to walls????? :rolleyes:

About the same as talking to my wife sometimes.

[SaturnVUEguy]

About the same as talking to my wife sometimes.In my house its the other way around. She may as well be talking to thin air while talking to me sometimes. I'll be watching something on tv, she starts talking, I stop listening and resume watching, she gets mad, repeat

[ho428]

In my house its the other way around. She may as well be talking to thin air while talking to me sometimes. I'll be watching something on tv, she starts talking, I stop listening and resume watching, she gets mad, repeat

LOL, oh man can I relate to that. She'll ask why I'm not listening. I tell her I don't know if she's talking to me, the cat or herself, but figure if it's for me she'll repeat it.

And why do they start talking way before they make it into the room anyway? They just have to start over since we can't hear them. Just wait 5 seconds and start when you're right in front of me.

[No Moolah]

If I hear or read about one more "LS-whatever" swap I'm gonna puke.

Jeez where's the originality. It's getting as bad as the Street Rod crowd with the 350-350 combo's.
At least the 502 crate engines were kinda cool, but the LS everything is just getting worn out.
What else is being done out there?

I hear ya HO428.

Me.. I have a YS block 30 over and putting on a tri-power this winter just to be different.

[syborg tt]

Why are you guys building V8s??? hell, that's so overdone.. everyone in here has a damn eight cylinder engine..

Show some creativity!

hey i did a tt v6 - ps i won't do that again

next time ls3

[Jim Nilsen]

Sometime in the history of our hobby--probably back in the mid sixties-- dudes with flatheads said the same thing about the small block Chevy. But those guys also intentionally put grease in their hair and listened to doo-wop music. :barf:

For the record, you CAN build a gen one small block with 14 degree, symmetrical port, raised runner heads and an aluminum block. You can do it with one phone call to Brodix, Dart or a coupla other firms. It'll generate the same specific output per cube as an LS motor. But because LS engines fall off of production assembly lines, the horsepower per dollar comparison cannot be beat.

Someday LS fanatics will complain about those new-fangled oscillation overthruster engines that run on urine and make 400HP per litre while returning 100 miles per gallon.

Hey Steve, will that urine power require drinking and driving for extra mileage. My dad would have never pulled off the road if us kids could have emptied the cooler and never needed the pit stop :cool:

[Steve Chryssos]

...and wars will be waged over Gatorade.

[OLDFLM]

I've got a Pontiac 400 that makes 400hp that I'll trade for an LSx!
I think that swaps like Andrews L92 into his GTO are super cool!!
As others have said... it's car... drive it and enjoy it!

Hell, I just sold my DD 05 G6 GT and will start driving my Firebird as my DD next week just as soon as it gets out of paint jail... with the Pontiac 400 making 400hp and getting 10mpg if I'm lucky...

The LSx swaps make sense to me... and I'll do one eventually when time and funds permit... Complete with a carb and repop Ram Air aircleaner and Pontiac baby blue valve covers! (c:]

[ho428]

How about posting some pics of LS engine installs, good and bad. Doesn't have to be show quality, let's see more of how they look in a vintage car.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

and why is it usually PONTIAC guys who go all Jesus Freak when you change anything poncho?

you almost NEVER see a modified/pt'ed GTO!..

rare at best.. and ALL of them are on here!

[Rhino]

...and wars will be waged over Gatorade.
It's got electrolytes... it's what plants crave!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/2615322565_b7b6813a41-1.jpg

[ho428]

and why is it usually PONTIAC guys who go all Jesus Freak when you change anything poncho?

you almost NEVER see a modified/pt'ed GTO!..

!

Ohh-ohh, to easy.
Because you can't improve on perfection. :bananna2:
Pontiacs don't need all that stuff to make ours desireable.
And they make more torque stock than most modifieds.

Edit,
In seriousness though, the idea of a Pontiac Blue LS done right, I'd like to see. Little new-old look.

[stealth71]

When I started my swap the main goal was having a car I can drive and enjoy. The 350/TH350 just doesn't cut it even with a 3.31 rear. Cruising at 3500+rpms and 12mpg blows. Pop a LS1/T56 in the thing and the fuel economy doubles and power increases as well. Seems like best of both worlds to me. If you can't afford to put gas in it what good does it do sitting in the garage.

Here she is as of a couple nights ago. Hoping to get it started just waiting on the tuner.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/DSC03449JPG-1.jpg

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Ohh-ohh, to easy.
Because you can't improve on perfection. :bananna2:
Pontiacs don't need all that stuff to make ours desireable.
And they make more torque stock than most modifieds.

Edit,
In seriousness though, the idea of a Pontiac Blue LS done right, I'd like to see. Little new-old look.

just on that quote alone.. perfect its not.
:throw:

[Rhino]

Ohh-ohh, to easy.
they make more torque stock than most modifieds.


... and yet the rest of the world moved on.

Everything's a balance my friend. Even though this may be true, the Poncho must lack in other areas.

[406 Q-ship]

Why are you guys building V8s??? hell, that's so overdone.. everyone in here has a damn eight cylinder engine..

Show some creativity!

GET DOWN Steve is about to blow!

[6'9"Witha69]

... and yet the rest of the world moved on.

Everything's a balance my friend. Even though this may be true, the Poncho must lack in other areas.Like gas mileage for starters.

Seriosly, PT cars can run on the street for long hauls, runs up the canyon, track days, autoX and drag racing.

Old engines can only do a few well while LS engines can do it all.

Try getting an old Poncho or any other 40 year old technology to do that!

[406 Q-ship]

Ohh-ohh, to easy.
Because you can't improve on perfection. :bananna2:
Pontiacs don't need all that stuff to make ours desireable.
And they make more torque stock than most modifieds.

Edit,
In seriousness though, the idea of a Pontiac Blue LS done right, I'd like to see. Little new-old look.

Oh right, I had a Pontiac powered GTO and my Pops still has his, Pontiac power is OK but far from perfect. Why do all the Poncho guys hate anyone who pulls out the outdated small port Pontiac engines? I understand the need to be different and a Pontiac engine that has been converted to run on EFI would be cool, but the cost is high compared to an easy LS swap. Besides Pontiac parts engine parts are expensive and hard to come by, wish means less drive time.

[6'9"Witha69]

Oh right, I had a Pontiac powered GTO and my Pops still has his, Pontiac power is OK but far from perfect. Why do all the Poncho guys hate anyone who pulls out the outdated small port Pontiac engines? I understand the need to be different and a Pontiac engine that has been converted to run on EFI would be cool, but the cost is high compared to an easy LS swap. Besides Pontiac parts engine parts are expensive and hard to come by, wish means less drive time.And ALL the Poncho guys want to go Ram air IV or V. Lot's of originality there too, huh?

[ho428]

Line from Doctor Doolittle by the lizard...

"Some much anger, damn that rap music"

Yep everyone wants a V, but since less than 300 exist that ain't gonna happen.

[Damn True]

Why would I want a lesser engine for the sake of originality?

Cutting off your nose.....

[ho428]

Why would I want a lesser engine for the sake of originality?


Ya know, that's kinda why I asked the first question. Thanks.
But I really wasn't talking about keeping things original, but originality, meaning unique. The LS swap is no longer unique.

And here's another link to piss off the bowtie brigade. :moon:

http://ourworld.cs.com/gaotman428/pontiacengines.htm

[Rhino]

Line from Doctor Doolittle by the lizard...

"Some much anger, damn that rap music"

Yep everyone wants a V, but since less than 300 exist that ain't gonna happen.
Does anyone else have the mental picture of him sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling "naa naa naa naa naa" just so he doesn't hear what everyone else has to say? :lol:

[Damn True]

Ya know, that's kinda why I asked the first question. Thanks.
But I really wasn't talking about keeping things original, but originality, meaning unique. The LS swap is no longer unique.

And here's another link to piss off the bowtie brigade. :moon:

http://ourworld.cs.com/gaotman428/pontiacengines.htm

Nope. Not unique. Just superior. Why would I settle for less for the sake of being original? Nearly everything in that link is trumped by:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/ls3-1.jpg

[Rhino]

#5: Pontiac had the brains enough to put a valley pan cover over the lifter valley. That way the intake manifold didn't have hot oil splashing up on it

#5: Pontiac intake manifolds are so easy to change since you don't have to pull the distributor to change it. Unlike those Chevy's.

You know guys... I think he's right. I would LOVE it if my LS1 had these features. Maybe it's because mine came from a Pontiac :naughty:

[ho428]

So the concensous is, no one cares about having a unique car anymore. Just as long as it has the "Superior" LS engine in it.

Ok, I'll take that as the answer.

[Damn True]

You know guys... I think he's right. I would LOVE it if my LS1 had these features. Maybe it's because mine came from a Pontiac :naughty:


Yeah, getting that distributor out of an LS engine is a real pain.

[BonzoHansen]

So the concensous is, no one cares about having a unique car anymore. Just as long as it has the "Superior" LS engine in it.

Ok, I'll take that as the answer. Always consider the source. This isn’t that kind of website. Guys who are concerned about originality, numbers, options, etc., re not really represented here, it’s a different audience. The whole concept of pro-touring kind of flies in the face of originality. If you ask this question at Camaros.net, or chevelles.net you might get more mixed replies.

[ho428]

Always consider the source. This isn’t that kind of website. Guys who are concerned about originality, numbers, options, etc., re not really represented here, it’s a different audience. The whole concept of pro-touring kind of flies in the face of originality. If you ask this question at Camaros.net, or chevelles.net you might get more mixed replies.

HUH? Never have I said "keep it original" Not real sure how it got interpreted as that.
I understand Pro-Tour and kinda like it. The concepts and designs of some of the cars is awesome. It's the cookie cutter LS engine I questioned.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i hope you had this on..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Damn True]

In favor of what?

The majority of PT folks intend to drive their cars. Hard. Knowing that what engine or engine family provides similar aftermarket support, ease of installation, tuning and performance?

Sure I could decide to put a Northstar engine in my Camaro. But good luck finding performance parts, required stuff to install it etc. IMO it would be a needless and expensive exercise in frusteration and in the end would most likely not produce the power and driveability of a simpler to install, support and modify, not to mention cheaper, LS.

....and quite frankly I don't give a damn what anyone's opinion is of the level of uniqueness of my car. I'm far more concerned with how stuff works.

[ho428]

Ok guys, I'm outta here. Leaving for the weekend to track time my cookie cutter 68 Firebird with ordinary Pontiac power and M-20 tranny. :drive2:

When I hear that 750 holley open up I'll be thinking, man I wished it sounded like an LS :bsjerk: engine.

At least the Outhouse was a little livlier this week... :twothumbs

And you're welcome. I wouldn't dish it if I couldn't take it :spank2:

It's all good and fun. :grouphug:

Who's up next week for fun and flames?:machine:

[BonzoHansen]

HUH? Never have I said "keep it original" Not real sure how it got interpreted as that.
I understand Pro-Tour and kinda like it. The concepts and designs of some of the cars is awesome. It's the cookie cutter LS engine I questioned.
For whatever reason I read this as a keep a SBC/BBC in a Chevy, keep a poncho a poncho VS an LS-based plant. Maybe some of the replies.

Either way, I plan to have one of each. :)

[Rhino]

At least the Outhouse was a little livlier this week...
And you're welcome. I wouldn't dish it if I couldn't take it
It's all good and fun.


I completely agree. :)

It all comes down to what you like. My 6 cyl powerglide car was already defiled by a big block before I purchased it. I'm just doing a little "updating".

If I had a full numbers matching rare option car, it'd be a different story. Of course most of us end up leaving those high dollar cars in the proper hands. I'd much prefer to find a cheap Plane Jane any day.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Ok guys, I'm outta here. Leaving for the weekend to track time my cookie cutter 68 Firebird with ordinary Pontiac power and M-20 tranny. :drive2:

When I hear that 750 holley open up I'll be thinking, man I wished it sounded like an LS :bsjerk: engine.

At least the Outhouse was a little livlier this week... :twothumbs

And you're welcome. I wouldn't dish it if I couldn't take it :spank2:

It's all good and fun. :grouphug:

Who's up next week for fun and flames?:machine:





Hey, take some video and be careful.. we still got love for you here at pt.com

[JustinB]

Man, you guys are way to easy. This guy was toying with you like a puppet. :slap:

[Steve1968LS2]

HUH? Never have I said "keep it original" Not real sure how it got interpreted as that.
I understand Pro-Tour and kinda like it. The concepts and designs of some of the cars is awesome. It's the cookie cutter LS engine I questioned.

So what is this mystical and magical "unique" engine you speak of? Should we power our cars with Unicorns?

Maybe a flathead engine.. of the first PT car with a tunnel ram.. lol

Are you saying that SBCs are somehow unique? Mabey we could do SB2 from old NASCAR rides.. but then after a few that would be redundant as well. See, thats the problem. Some people would rather put an inferior item in their car "just to be different". What kind of sense does that make?

[seekins]

How about some LS turbo setups? Maybe some custom Ram air ? Thats what i plan, but i cant bring myself to do it with a normal SBC.....Oh just a boring 68 Camaro too but...

Using a old school SBC would be kind of like wiping your butt before you poop......Just doesn't make sense :screwy:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

So what is this mystical and magical "unique" engine you speak of? Should we power our cars with Unicorns?


quote of the thread..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/unicorn2-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/Hair20Metal-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/10/metalfan-1.jpg

[JustinB]

See, thats the problem. Some people would rather put an inferior item in their car "just to be different". What kind of sense does that make?

So based on your first post, do you consider a big block an inferior item? Taking into consideration that alot of these new big hp LS engines are based of an iron LSX block and most high hp big blocks have aluminum heads, the weight differences are not as substantial.

[OLDFLM]

So what is this mystical and magical "unique" engine you speak of? Should we power our cars with Unicorns?

Maybe a flathead engine.. of the first PT car with a tunnel ram.. lol

Are you saying that SBCs are somehow unique? Mabey we could do SB2 from old NASCAR rides.. but then after a few that would be redundant as well. See, thats the problem. Some people would rather put an inferior item in their car "just to be different". What kind of sense does that make?

I'll volunteer my 400hp Poncho 400/TH350 powered Firebird for before and after testing vs an L92/LS2/3/7... and even save you the trouble of swapping the 400 back in after the testing is done! (c:]

[Steve1968LS2]

So based on your first post, do you consider a big block an inferior item? Taking into consideration that alot of these new big hp LS engines are based of an iron LSX block and most high hp big blocks have aluminum heads, the weight differences are not as substantial.

In many ways yes.. although for pure production of torque the big-block is king of the hill. If I was building a drag car or street warrior I would go with a hugh big block.

For a PT car it makes life much more dificult. You have to overcome the weight issue and then there's fuel economy.

I don't see the reasoning behing an iron block LS engine either.. unless you're going to dump tons of boost in it.

And don't take the word "inferior" too litterally. I'm just saying it's hard to beat an all aluminum fuel-injected small block that can easily make 600 hp and has excellent street manners. :)

Besides, what is so "new and unique" about a big-block? (going with the original topic of this thread)

[406 Q-ship]

So the concensous is, no one cares about having a unique car anymore. Just as long as it has the "Superior" LS engine in it.

Ok, I'll take that as the answer.

Ah but Pontiac power is far from unique, GM made millions of Pontiac powered cars, and in your own words 300 RA V's (only sold over the counter never installed for public sale). Unique means it is the only one. There are a few Poncho powered (along with other engines) in modified cars out there (check out this months PHR, there is a cool Firebird with a Pontiac in it). In fact vehicles not LS powered out in the world out number those of us who have (or desire to have) a LS powered classic. It is a personal choice, you can stick with your outdated expensive harder to maintain engine, while some us decide to be true hot rodders and fit our vehicles with the best of late model tech. I was a died in the wool hard core SBC fan, especially 400's, light weight and great torque, easy parts availability by the performance industry but today the LS3 does for 6k what it would cost me 8k to 12k to do. That 400 SBC compared to the LS3 would be less of a convenient driver in that MPG, ability to idle, and general power curve wouldn't be as good. Technology has moved forward, and we must move with it sometimes or get passed.

P.S. You also get on people for putting in TKO's and T56's at an alarming rate? I see your trying to do it with a M20, will it perform on track, yeap, but on that drive home being able to hear the tuner or my passenger while not wearing that "unique" engine out spinning the crap out of it cause I have to run 3.73's and 25" tall tires. It is your choice, not mine to live in 1970.

[JustinB]

Besides, what is so "new and unique" about a big-block? (going with the original topic of this thread)

Absolutely nothing. On the same note what is new and unique and putting a crate LS in a 1st gen. Nothing. This whole argument is stupid in the first place. Unique would be an all aluminum injected big block in a highly modified PT car.

[Rhino]

Man, you guys are way to easy. This guy was toying with you like a puppet. :slap: If it was that obvious, don't you think a few of us may have known it to? :wedgie:

Rather than being bothered by someone all the way across the interwebs, sometimes it's just as fun to fan the flames and see what happens :)
Even the OP eluded to that fact at one point.

[JustinB]

If it was that obvious, don't you think a few of us may have known it to? :wedgie:

Rather than being bothered by someone all the way across the interwebs, sometimes it's just as fun to fan the flames and see what happens :)
Even the OP eluded to that fact at one point.

I know. I was pointing out the obvious. I just though it was funny how you all started piling on the guy.

[ho428]

Back from the track. What a blast flogging a 68 Bird around a road course. :drive1:

Not trying to bring back the debate but I did watch Musclecar where they are installing an LS-7 I think, into a 69 Bird. Maybe it's just them but the guys sure are making the under hood very cluttered looking. Mounting stuff on the fenderwells, dry sump cans, hoses, air ducts, and all the wiring required to make it run.
Just looks oddball in a FGF. I'm sure it'll run good but the looks just don't fit the car.

Also when the guy made the roll bar he was complaining about how hard it was to bend the heavy wall tube, he said the bar was for looks only and would get covered with fabric, if that's the case why not use thinwall tube?
That show really needs Lou back.

[406 Q-ship]

The LS7 does require quite of extras for the dry sump oiling system. Same reason I would never put a dry sump engine in a street car. It Ls series of engine isn't the most beautiful engine in the looks department but the performance trumps that issue.

This new guy on Musclecar is a body guy, he isn't really mechanically inclined. Lou wasn't all that others made him out to be, in fact he was a hack. Watch the ones where he put the LS/T56 in the Nova, he butchered the job horribly. The road race Mustang was a hack job. Sorry Lou was not a great car builder, Stacy from Trucks was the true all around builder, better than any of the others that are on any of the Powerblock shows.

[jackfrost]

how about putting a Ferrari engine in a Rambler?



:razz:

[70LS1NOVA]

For what it's worth, the LS swap may not seem so unique to "us" because we see so many of the projects here and on a few other forums, but let me tell you something. I went to Fall carlisle this weekend where there were thousands of cars and maybe only 6 LS swap cars. It's still unique out there in the real world. If I go to a local show with hundreds of cars, guess what, the majority of the time, mine is the only car there with an LS engine. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT MAINSTREAM YET.

[rogue]

LSX cars lack the soul and smells of a carb'd motor. A very important part of the muscle car experience in my opinion. I ultimately ended up going with a 502 crate instead of an LSX. More power for less cash and you still get that big block rumble. Its also a great base for future improvement.

I don't regret my decision one bit.

[amx2334]

LSX cars lack the soul and smells of a carb'd motor
You can put a carb on an LS motor. They now have a retrofit front cover so you can put a distibutor in there. Why I have no idea. De-evolution I guess. Next they'll come up with a flathead conversion kit for it.

[6'9"Witha69]

Yeah I know, but it's been kinda dead around here. The pot needed stirring.Yody comes to mind here.

[twosaturns]

For what it's worth, the LS swap may not seem so unique to "us" because we see so many of the projects here and on a few other forums, but let me tell you something. I went to Fall carlisle this weekend where there were thousands of cars and maybe only 6 LS swap cars. It's still unique out there in the real world. If I go to a local show with hundreds of cars, guess what, the majority of the time, mine is the only car there with an LS engine. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT MAINSTREAM YET.
exactly, like I alluded to earlier. most guys still can't figure out metric ("what's a 5.3? is that a 327?" duh...) I figured they came out w/ the 5.7 just because the core customer was used to that one, but 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, 6.2 and 7.0 just throws them a curveball. LS1? LQ9? you may as well be speaking Chinese. most guys still think the (1970) LT1 is the pinnacle of small block development.
as for shows, please. attending a super chevy show in 2008 is exactly like 1988, pro street, eagle st tires on cragars, drum brakes, metalflake paint, etc.

[CraigMorrison]

W12 anybody? We have had a lot of customers do weird swaps, but haven't heard of anybody doing this yet.

Lambo - Mustang
Ferrari - Rambler
TT SBC - Ferrari
Duramax - Caddy, Chevelle, Grand National
Ford - 1st Gen Camaro
Ford - Tri 5

[BonzoHansen]

For what it's worth, the LS swap may not seem so unique to "us" because we see so many of the projects here and on a few other forums, but let me tell you something. I went to Fall carlisle this weekend where there were thousands of cars and maybe only 6 LS swap cars. It's still unique out there in the real world. If I go to a local show with hundreds of cars, guess what, the majority of the time, mine is the only car there with an LS engine. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT MAINSTREAM YET.I agree. I thought the same thing everywhere I went this summer. Often NO SWAPS at all.



Yody comes to mind here.
I wonder if he ever actually finished that firebird.

[Rhino]

W12 anybody? We have had a lot of customers do weird swaps, but haven't heard of anybody doing this yet.

Lambo - Mustang
Ferrari - Rambler
TT SBC - Ferrari
Duramax - Caddy, Chevelle, Grand National
Ford - 1st Gen Camaro
Ford - Tri 5

I know you're just trying to prove a point... but the Ford - 1st Gen Camaro has been done. I believe the owner is either here on PT or Lat G

[twosaturns]

W12 anybody? We have had a lot of customers do weird swaps, but haven't heard of anybody doing this yet.

Lambo - Mustang
Ferrari - Rambler
TT SBC - Ferrari
Duramax - Caddy, Chevelle, Grand National
Ford - 1st Gen Camaro
Ford - Tri 5
some of the coolest swaps I've seen were in hi boys. hot rod had a red '32 YEARS ago that had a ferrari V12 in it. another had TWO bbc's in it. the VW guys in Britain do a lot of cool stuff, saw a gti once w/ TWO VR6's, yes, all wheel drive. chevy 911's have been around forever of course, I'm intrigued by WRX powered 914's also. saw a mid '70 camaro on ebay not too long ago had a ford 429 or 390 in it (I'm not too good w/ the ford stuff).

[derekf]

I know you're just trying to prove a point... but the Ford - 1st Gen Camaro has been done. I believe the owner is either here on PT or Lat GThey've all been done. The Ferrari-Rambler is "Ferrambo", the 2008 Ridler award winner... and yes, the Ford in a 1st-Gen is our own ronracer. He was (I believe) saying that he hasn't seen the W12 done.