Natural Gas Conversions

[wblanton]

Not sure if this is the right forum, could be the fuel that moves us. I am sure everyone is seeing the ads on TV for Natural gas. I have actually never seen a vehicle run on NG, guess it wouldnt be much different than propane. Does anyone know anything about the conversion and what effects it has on mileage, horsepower. Seems it could be a bit of a safety issue. Any thoughts??

[Martin71RS]

I do not know about NG, but I run (just as a lot here in the Netherlands) on LPG, Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG) which consist of mainly propane (C3H8) and butane (C4H10).

LPG has a high octane number: 103-104,5 RON (Research Octane Number) at a 50/50 mix.

It available here at most gasstations, no safety issues, just have it properly installed.

Martin

[Scott Parkhurst]

http://www.impco.ws/products/certified_engine_systems.htm

It's all been figured out for a long time. You lose some power, but if you up the compression on a dedicated engine, you can get it back.

Turbos work great with gaseous fuel setups, by the way.

~Scotch~

[Zee]

Seems like a good alternative worth investigating. How is the storage issue addressed? Most propane conversions I have seen in the past require external tanks.

[Rhino]

Seems like a good alternative worth investigating. How is the storage issue addressed? Most propane conversions I have seen in the past require external tanks.

As with Propane, LPG or Natural Gas are both under significant pressure. You will need a very similar tank.

[Roadrage David]

I have a 79.25 gallon LPG system in my GMC van. and a aditional stock gas tank.
you loose about 20% of your performance with LPG, there are systems that work with injection that can be tuned up to a 1000 hp but thats a nono for most of us.due to the costs

[Scott Parkhurst]

Seems like a good alternative worth investigating. How is the storage issue addressed? Most propane conversions I have seen in the past require external tanks.

The tanks used on the Impco systems above are designed to fit between the car's back seat and trunk. They were all DOT approved and I'm sure they'd sell you one. I did some work with Impco in the past, and they had both CNG and propane conversions all figured out for fleet vehicles.

[Martin71RS]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/camaro144-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/camaro145-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/camaro146-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/09/technocarb01-1.jpg

see www.pro-touring.nl (http://www.pro-touring.nl) page 16 for info on my first bi-fuel setup.
pages 34, 35 and 43 for the current LPG only setup.

Martin

[BrianP]

One of the nice things about natural gas is the potential to refuel at home. Honda markets a home refuel system called Phill ( http://www.myphill.com/ ) to go along with their natural gas powered civics. It's kinda pricey though at over 3 grand. I've thought of getting a used dual fuel Ford ex-cop Crown Victoria car and using the My Phill.

[Kenova]

Propane is stored at approximately 125 psi. as a liquid. It is heaver than air so in the event of a leak it will seek out the lowest areas.
Natural gas can reach pressures well over 2000 lbs. when stored. It is lighter than air and will have a greater tendency to dissipate in the event of a leak in open areas. To store it as a liquid requires a cooling unit to condense it under pressure.
Personally I would prefer to work with propane because of it's lower storage pressure. I see no reason why an injector can't be made to deliver the LPG to the port as a liquid, much the same as some nitrous systems.

Ken

[Jim Nilsen]

Call Gale Banks, he did a Bonneville vehicle if I remember right. CNG was netting him close to 600hp with the setup he was trying.

I didn't google it but if you do I bet you can find it.