JKnight16's 69 GTO

[jknight16]

This is my dad's car but we're working together to get this thing looking and driving right for Hot August Nights this year. Anyhow, we got the 17's from Jon at DriverzInc. mounted up (225/50-17 in front, 275/45?-17 rear) and it really revealed how high the front of this car sits right now. So we need some assistance from you GTO or A-body guys.

The rear springs are OEM replacements for a tempest wagon, so they likely sit a bit higher than normal, higher spring rate, but we don't know what the front springs are, except that they're fairly old. We're thinking these fronts may be even taller than stock, but aren't sure. Either way, we're looking at replacing all four springs with some eibachs or hotchkis lowering springs, but we're a little concerned that even that won't get the front end low enough. What has your experience been with lowering springs on an a-body? how did yours compare to the pic below? The rest of the suspension is stock.

(Oh, and don't worry about the rear drums, the Wilwoods are on the way from Frank!)

Thanks for your input guys.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/69Judge17s-1.jpg
Edit: For comparison, this is after installing SPC springs and Stage 2+ system from Marcus at SC&C
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC03202-1.jpg

[gearbanger]

I would cut a coil out all the way around or you may just start with 1/2 a coil and and go from there. You can take a die grinder and a cutoff wheel and it will slice it right off. I doubt a hack saw will do much.

In the rear, you will need to make sure once you get it where you want it, that the shocks are short enough not to let the rear drop enough to let the coil fall out. If so you will need to make a limiter or get some shorter shocks. Min 67 is lowered 3" and Edelbrock IAS shocks were just short enough to make it.

I cut my front springs a full coil and that was just about right, but that put the car about 3" lower than factory. That is lowwwww. For the rear I used OPG 3" lowering spring because my springs are double pigtail. If your are just single pigtail, you can just trim them in the back.

[jknight16]

Just to clarify, so you're talking about buying the new springs and then cutting them a half a coil, maybe a full coil?

So you guys out there that have used aftermarket springs on your A-bodies, is this similar to what yours looked like w/ factory springs? How much did yours change with the aftermarket springs installed?

[BossaNova]

_That_ is a tough looking car. Can't wait to see it lowered.

[Tony_SS]

Look into OPG springs. The should offer a 1, 2 and 3" drop versions. I went with 3" drops in the front and 2" in the rear for my Malibu and am happy with the results.

[andrewb70]

Call Mark:

http://www.scandc.com/

By far the best customer service in the business. He should be able to set you up with everything you need to get the ride height nailed down. Also keep in mind that when you lower the back you will run into driveline angle issues. If you don't already have adjustable upper control arms, you will need them.

Andrew

[Marcus SC&C]

Hi jknight16. I just talked to your Dad on the phone. Nice Judge, it sure is too high though. Cutting springs will get it lower but it won`t add much rate at all which may make the car prone to bottoming out. It also won`t do anything for performance. A good set of performance lowering springs would be a much better bet. They`ll lower the car a set amount and add enough spring rate to improve performance and keep it from bottoming out. If it`s in the budget you can also lower the car some while improving the geometry, drivability and performance a LOT. Our Stage 2-Plus package is a great example. The tall lower ball joints will lower the car about 3/4" in addition to it`s bumpsteer and suspension geometry improvements. Mark SC&C

[jknight16]

Thanks for your help Marcus. Yeah, the car has been very nicely restored to original condition, but he's bored with stock and I've been trying to point him in the right direction to get it to handle and stop better.

Yeah, I told him you were the guy to call, I'm glad he did. I've never been a proponent of cutting springs so we were definitely looking to go the route of aftermarket lowering springs. I didn't even know that SPC made springs for these cars, but from what he said that's what you guys are recommending now. Good to know.

I think right now he's leaning toward doing the springs, shocks, and ball joints, but he's probably going to leave the stock control arms for now. He may get into that in a few months.

Jeff

[comp-spec]

Hi jknight16. I just talked to your Dad on the phone. Nice Judge, it sure is too high though. Cutting springs will get it lower but it won`t add much rate at all which may make the car prone to bottoming out. It also won`t do anything for performance. A good set of performance lowering springs would be a much better bet. They`ll lower the car a set amount and add enough spring rate to improve performance and keep it from bottoming out. If it`s in the budget you can also lower the car some while improving the geometry, drivability and performance a LOT. Our Stage 2-Plus package is a great example. The tall lower ball joints will lower the car about 3/4" in addition to it`s bumpsteer and suspension geometry improvements. Mark SC&C
Just finished up using one of Marks SC&C suspension packages on a 68 cutlass ....... great service highly reccomended

[jknight16]

Steady progress is being made on getting the Judge lowered. While he was at it, the Dad is taking the necessary steps to make it stop and turn a little better. :drive:

Stage 2+ kit from Marcus at SC&C, which includes the Tall upper and lower ball joints and SPC upper control arms. Along with SPC springs, Bilstein shocks, along with hotchkis tie rod adjusters and new tie rods (not shown).
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/GTOSprings-1.jpg

And Wilwood brakes from Frank at Prodigy/GP Superstore.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/GTOBrakes-1.jpg

Rear suspension and brakes in progress.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/GTORearsusp-1.jpg

[jknight16]

It's update time again. (guess we could probably move this to the updates section, mods?) In the first post, I've inserted the 'after' picture below the 4x4 picture so that you can see the change. This is after they got the springs, brakes, and the remainder of the stage 2+ kit installed and got the car back down on all fours. Only problem now is that the front end is resting on the bumpstops. We're thinking that a couple of spring spacers will likely be used to remedy that though.... They're still working through a few kinks with the brakes (rears don't seem to be working at all, and fronts aren't doing much work either) but hopefully that will be resolved with the new booster (we suspected this booster was bad with the original brakes) and removing the factory hold-off valves (round one below the master cylinder and the brass one along the frame).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC03202-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC03205-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC03204-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC03206-1.jpg

[tom_a]

Looks nice. I like the LIC. Plate also.

[SatisTraction]

that car is on the dream car list!!!

[Code Red]

I'm running the full Hotchkis setup on my 68 front didnt come down much rear came down ALOT we have a 2inch perch in (though I'm going to switch out to a 1 inch so we will see

I'm really surprised the front didnt come down more with the hotchkis

but I'll get everything straightened out on my setup


but yours looks great in this pic

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/DSC03202-1.jpg

[Tony_SS]

Very nice... Love the plate too.

[jknight16]

Thanks for the compliments guys. We were joking today about how he might not get any awards at car shows anymore since it won't be eligible for the stock classes anymore. But we're both of the opinion that the improvements are worth far more than the trophies.

[tones2SS]

Sweet looking Judge.
68 and 69 are my favorite years for those GTO's. 70 & 71 aren't too bad neither.

[70 Chevelle]

Love the car , I think thats the best license plate I've seen yet!

[ferk_0331]

Nice Judge, one of my all time favorite cars!

[SaturnVUEguy]

Love the license plates! Fit the car great! Car looks much better lowered now too

[gto406]

Car looks really nice. The '68/'69 models are really sweet years, the Judge is just a little more icing (and a cherry) on the cake.

Yep, who cares about trophies, they just take up room, and you can't drive and enjoy 'em like you will the repopped Judge!

I am thinking about lowering mine down the road, but stage I is to get it back together, running with the new 4 wheel disc brakes, new GW arms I picked up, and the currectrac's I plan to grab from Mark at SC&C.

Keep us 'in the loop' on how you proceed with your brake issues.

Cheers,
Brian
'72 GTO
(coming apart, almost ready to go the other way)

[jknight16]

Current diagnosis is that the master cylinder was bad. We'll know more by the end of day today.

Brian, the dad also has a 72 tempest (GTO Clone) that I'll have to post some pictures of. Of course, it's Carousel Red as well.

[jknight16]

Well, it looks like the new master cylinder was the ticket. There's definitely no black on the rear rotors any longer! It also sounds like the new booster helped with the pedal feel. Initial impressions of the Wilwood kit are pretty good, but I think it may need a little more bleeding to get them perfect.

Also, the dad installed one spring spacer on each side to try to get the bumpstops off the frame and it looks like that almost worked. Frame is just touching the LCA snubbers now, whereas it was compressing them by 1/2" or more before. Stance is about perfect now, as the front came up just a bit. This will have to be good enough, as they're leaving for Hot August Nights Monday morning. I fly in to Reno on Thursday and we're looking forward to meeting anyone that might be there as well.

[gto406]

Thanks Jeff, yes please post some photo's of the Tempest!

Glad to hear your brake issues are sorted. I went with a Matt's Classic Bowtie (4 wheel disc brake kit) - seems to be a Right Stuff Detailing based kit. Looks really nice and will allow me to continue to run a stock 15" wheel front to back.

A site on e-Bay (I think it is Custom Wheels) has staggered 15" torque-thrust clone wheels mounted on Cooper Cobra tires for $800. I will probably pick those up when the car is closer to completion.

Have a great time at Hot August Nights. I hope to get there 'one day'. Unfortunately not this year.

Cheers,
Brian.

[BretB]

Nice looking GTO. My brother and I went with air ride on our '69. Rides great and handles too and you can slam it to the ground. We call it the Executioner. Here's a link to it on the Autocross at the Goodguy's Columbus show.
http://www.ridetech.com/more/2008/07/12/good-guys-street-machine-of-the-year-autocross