ATS needs your help! Market research within...

[TitoJones]

I need some help from all of our members here that own 67-81 F bodies, 64-72 A bodies and 68-74 X body cars.

I've spent the last few days going over 6700+ emails trying to make a new FAQ page, and I'd like some feedback on topics to put on our website.

So, ask away! I want questions about font and rear suspensions, picking spring rates, LSX install questions, T56 questions, etc. If you have asked a shop the question, put it here so I can make a new data base.
What do you want to know?

Tyler

[John510]

What kind of fuel rail do I need for my 2000 LS1 motor for going in a 68 camaro?

How do I attach my 2000 camaro front disc brakes to my car?

[Nine Ball]

What is pro-touring?

[Yelcamino]

What is pro-touring?

And what direction do you see it going in the next 20 years? :yeah:

[1969CamaroRS]

Maybe a comparison of different suspension types front and rear, benefits vs cost etc. You could maybe even give a couple examples of lists of parts (say Stage 1 - Street, Stage 2 Street/Strip etc) to help people pickout packages vs their budget.

I know the upper/lower control arm questions must be pretty common, as well as what works with your AFX spindle and what doesn't (Guldstrand, DSE control arms etc).

Maybe something on how to pick a spring rate depending on intended use, engine size and suspension components etc would be killer.

[Chad-1stGen]

Is there a list of (non ultra premium) wheels that are known to work with ATS spindles and C5/C6 brakes?

[sik68]

As an engineer, I'm a bit obsessed with quantifying performance. Then again, I suppose every car guy is is into numbers to some extent. What would really blow my mind as a consumer would be documentation of performance gains that can be realized with the parts and systems you offer. I realize this is a difficult process...the logistics of carrying out a battery of tests can be pretty daunting. BUT, I know for a fact that car enthusiasts like myself trust a supplier that stands behind their product.

The common response to this "well there are so many variables that affect performance, the data is basically useless and doesn't apply to the consumer's buildup anyways."

My rebuttal is: so what? The customer realizes that the tests weren't carried out to show how their own car would perform, but rather to show the relative improvement that the company's products may offer. If a brand new car, Woosh, can get around Gogo Raceway in 1:35, it means nothing by itself. However, if you found out that a 2008 z06 can get around that track in 1:40, then the Woosh is a pretty impressive car!

I know too, that some products are harder to quantify as "better." For example, the ATS 670 steering box. We all know that this box is "better" than the original sloppy steering boxes of yore. But how do you quantify that? Well, just write a side by side comparison between the 670 box and inferior steering boxes. Even simple math like "the 670 box has 200% less on-center play than this Saginaw box out of a Camaro" goes a loooong way.

Well, it would be awesome if performance were more than just a "hey this product is awesome" type of deal.

BTW, Tyler, I have a 1968 Camaro with a bunch of Global West stuff I bought from ATS...I could be quite easily motivated to become your official performance tester. :naughty:

[Takid455]

why do 1975-1981 firebirds/ trans am's get shafted and 1st gen camaros get all the goodies and parts?:hmm:

[Steve1968LS2]

Ok... anything special if you want to install a 5.3 truck engine (with GM harness computer) with a TKO-500/600?

What if you want to do it with a T56?

[JEFFTATE]

Why aren't there more IRS kits for musclecars ?
Don't they work better than any solid axle rear suspension ?

And how is the 50/50 Camaro going ?

[BonzoHansen]

why do 1975-1981 firebirds/ trans am's get shafted and 1st gen camaros get all the goodies and parts?:hmm:
Add 75-81 Camaros too.

[Nine Ball]

pros and cons for rack and pinion vs OEM style steering setups.

database for wheel/tire fitments on various cars, with stock tubs/fenders

mini-tub how-to, and the hidden costs related

designing an EFI fuel system

[Rybar]

#1 FAQ on your list: What's the deal with 50-50. Sorry to break your balls Tyler, I have always been wondering if it will ever get done.

#2 Some kind of comparison of stock subs with aftermarket mods vs aftermarket subframes.

#3 Comparing a DSE Q-Link with a Air/Gbar rear suspension.

[CRCRFT78]

Improving suspensions on the G-body with the use of your poducts. I always hear about bumpsteer but what else should the consumer consider when putting a suspension together. How about street or street/strip applications? Brake packages etc. etc.

[Chad-1stGen]

If a T56 is installed using your cross member behind a Gen 1 SBC and you later want to install an LS1 will the cross member and existing T56 have to be moved forward or backward?

[XLexusTech]

"#3 Comparing a DSE Q-Link with a Air/Gbar rear suspension."
I second that!
"#2 Some kind of comparison of stock subs with aftermarket mods vs aftermarket subframes. "
I second that too..

Here is one I would like to know. Assuming I were using the Ats tall spindles Is their a performance advantage to using coil overs other then adjustability?

[DJW32]

1. ATS motor mounts: Why would I want to flip the ATS motor mounts?
2. ATS motor mounts: What is the height difference between running the motor mounts the regular way (traditional mounting)VS. flipping the motor mounts?
3. ATS motor mounts: Do you have pictures of where ats mounts will postion the motor in other classic cars and trucks? Do you know what kind of headers and drive assy your customers used in their classic?

I will think of more...

[XLexusTech]

As an engineer, I'm a bit obsessed with quantifying performance. Then again, I suppose every car guy is is into numbers to some extent. What would really blow my mind as a consumer would be documentation of performance gains that can be realized with the parts and systems you offer. I realize this is a difficult process...the logistics of carrying out a battery of tests can be pretty daunting. BUT, I know for a fact that car enthusiasts like myself trust a supplier that stands behind their product.

The common response to this "well there are so many variables that affect performance, the data is basically useless and doesn't apply to the consumer's buildup anyways."

My rebuttal is: so what? The customer realizes that the tests weren't carried out to show how their own car would perform, but rather to show the relative improvement that the company's products may offer. If a brand new car, Woosh, can get around Gogo Raceway in 1:35, it means nothing by itself. However, if you found out that a 2008 z06 can get around that track in 1:40, then the Woosh is a pretty impressive car!

I know too, that some products are harder to quantify as "better." For example, the ATS 670 steering box. We all know that this box is "better" than the original sloppy steering boxes of yore. But how do you quantify that? Well, just write a side by side comparison between the 670 box and inferior steering boxes. Even simple math like "the 670 box has 200% less on-center play than this Saginaw box out of a Camaro" goes a loooong way.

Well, it would be awesome if performance were more than just a "hey this product is awesome" type of deal.

BTW, Tyler, I have a 1968 Camaro with a bunch of Global West stuff I bought from ATS...I could be quite easily motivated to become your official performance tester. :naughty:


:hail:

I couldn't agree MORE I have asked DSE and CA the same things Even had a failry large post about it got nothing useful back. The reluctance (not on Tylers part) but from the big manfacturers to provide performace Data is telling in itself.

[Chad-1stGen]

I'm seem to recall that Tyler has accumulated a fair amount of comparison test data but has withheld publicizing it to avoid vendor wars.

Tyler?

[killer69]

how big is my motor?
what is my gear ratio?


HAhahahahaha

[BA.]

A simple Pro's and Con's list for the various rear suspensions available right now could be cool.

[LowBuckX]

So, ask away! I want questions about font and rear suspensions,

Tyler

What font looks better "Veranda" "Arial" "Impact" or "comic sans" :seizure:


Just messin with ya........ Id also like to know what is up with 50/50

[Vegas69]

The advantage in weight bias from a big block to a LS7, and the expected gains in performance. Just make sure I don't see the numbers.:doh:

[sik68]

I'm seem to recall that Tyler has accumulated a fair amount of comparison test data but has withheld publicizing it to avoid vendor wars.

Tyler?

Vendor wars are exactly what pro touring needs!

[derekf]

How much of this should be on Tyler's site and how much should be discussed here though? Is the purpose of this FAQ to be the end-all and be-all pro-touring FAQ, or is it the ATS FAQ?

If it's an ATS-specific FAQ, then I'd say all manner of LSx/T56/4Lx0E fitments in everything from F/G/A bodies to Corvairs, through suspension comparisons (front and rear), and possibly even some nods towards those things that are coming soon (nonspecific enough to be printed) and possibly some general information for those who are wanting the next-level (more track than street) performance.

On the other hand, if it's the general P-T FAQ, you've got thousands and thousands of possible questions listed here. Just index and you're done.

Oh, and LowBuck, never Comic Sans.

[James OLC]

I think that it is fairly safe to assume that Tyler is looking for tech that he can bring regarding his products, services, engineering rather than a general Pro-Touring discussion. As Derek very correctly suggests, that general P-T FAQ is what this site and sites like this are already providing to anyone who cares to look, ask, or speak up.

With respect to ATS specific products and tech, I would throw out the following questions for consideration, all of which are based on my own personal experience while researching the '67 build through to, say, questions that I had yesterday morning:

1. How about something like "5 Questions to ask before you buy a front or rear suspension setup". One of the things that I found in my research was that very few vendors were prepared to share hard core specs regarding geometry. I would provide ATS's answers here along with the significance of the answer.

2. Pilot bearings - which one do I need when installing my T56? The same could be said for throwout bearings, slave cylinder lines(should I keep the stock bleeder deal or are there alternatives? Where can I get a quick disconnect for my TO bearing or do I have to change that too?), etc. The 'GM' side of the equation that is often overlooked.

3. A master cylinder (brake and clutch) database would be cool - sizing and reasoning behind a properly engineered system.

4. Maybe a simple plumbing schematic for LS series engines; wet and dry sump when using the ATS pans.

5. How about a similar summary for the cooling side of the equations - say using a RD rad setup. The steam relief deal is also something that I found to be underrepresented in literature when researching the LS swap.

6. What do I need to install my T56 from a wiring point of view? What (connections) do I need and what do I not need?

7. Maybe some known/proven combinations with respect to brakes and wheels (backspacing, etc.) even if some more aggressive combinations require some... additional considerations.

8. What are the benefits of Tri-Y style headers over other designs?

I'm sure you have three or four hundred more of my questions in your inned basket but I thought I would throw these out for your consideration.

Great idea, good luck with it.

[Steve68]

How many jobs do I need to afford the LM Chicane front set up?

and the Mother fuggin awsome ATS headers,

I'm really thinking of robbing banks here, almost sold the 2 girls, 6 and 9 at the last rod run in Daytona!

Had them both sold for 120K, but reniged for 100K for my daughter alone, I think she might have DR. aspect in the future,

[XLexusTech]

"As Derek very correctly suggests, that general P-T FAQ is what this site and sites like this are already providing to anyone who cares to look, ask, or speak up."
You make it sound so easy. I have asked spoken up prodded Emailed tried to smoke out of the castle.. whatever you want to call it Most if not all of the vendors and Maunfacturers that sell or make products we discuss. I have gotten no info.

Fundemental question can you provide basic performance Data , Skid pad Braking 60 foot for the products you sell. Eg the quadra link G bar ect.

Personally I think ATS products are priced pretty well.

[James OLC]

"As Derek very correctly suggests, that general P-T FAQ is what this site and sites like this are already providing to anyone who cares to look, ask, or speak up."
You make it sound so easy. I have asked spoken up prodded Emailed tried to smoke out of the castle.. whatever you want to call it Most if not all of the vendors and Maunfacturers that sell or make products we discuss. I have gotten no info.

Fair enough and you are right - it is not that easy to get tech based answers or hard facts from many of the vendors and manufacturers beyond "I have them in stock" and "they work fine". Tyler and ATS are the obvious exception, and there are others, like AME, who understand that these are important decisions for un and many of the customers (or potential customers) here would prefer to make "fact based" decisions as opposed to taking someones word on it. Again, hats off to Tyler for his intent to try to provide more answers regarding his products.


Fundemental question can you provide basic performance Data , Skid pad Braking 60 foot for the products you sell. Eg the quadra link G bar ect.

I agree 100% with this statement and I know that Tyler is working towards a performance database for a variety of his products or modifications. I think that it is important to recognize though that ATS is not a DSE dealer nor is he an Alston dealer. If you browse his website or catalog I think you'll find that for the rear suspension ATS offers upgraded multi-leafs then moves to a variety of composite monoleafs and then the Lateral Dynamics 3-Link.

So given those choices it would be very cool to see some real world numbers taking the same car to the track with stock leafs, and working through a couple of the leaf spring options. Quantitatively show just how well a stock style leaf layout can perform.

And I agree, ATS's pricing is very competitive. The other nice thing about they way that Tyler offers the Chicane-LM front is that you can build it piece by piece or all at once depending on what your budget allows. Besides the OneLap car I am working on another '67 for my wife and I've been putting another Chicane sub together slowly but surely.

[TitoJones]

Great stuff here guys. I'm liking what I see. To be clear, Jim has it right, I'd like questions that relate to my products or the ones I distribute for. DSE can speak for their own products, they don't need me to re-hash what they have on their site; same goes for other vendors that I don't deal with like Alston, Heidts, etc.

Here are the general sections I'm going to expand into:

T56 related swapping, both general knowledge and chassis specific.

LSX swaps, again, general knowledge, chassis specific, wiring, plumbing, and related topics on products I support. Don't expect me to talk about S&P or BRP items in my FAQ page.

Suspension- General knowledge, glossary of terms and what it does, how to pick a suspension based on needs/desires and then by budget, performance charts of my AFX spindles when used with DSE, Global West and Speedtech arms, install guides etc.

Steering- What you need to know about steeing, its function, checking worn items, and optitons for improving it. might include a plumbing diagram with and without hydro-boost.

Brakes/wheels- Master cylindr sizing, plumbing charts, fitments and options for what we use.

Consulting, General FAQ that we see on these sites- ie: I installed tubular control arms, does my car handle like a Ferrari now? etc.

Tips/Tricks- Little things we picked up on while building cars over the years- like replacing the inner fender bolts with a stainless button head to increase tire clearance, how to do an alignment at home, things of that nature.

Keep your questions coming please.


Tyler

[DJW32]

How about a back spacing chart for the ats spindles?...for 17 and 18" wheels on camaros

[TitoJones]

How about a back spacing chart for the ats spindles?...for 17 and 18" wheels on camaros

Too many factors involved for me to go down that path. As a rule I never give anyone any backspacing numbers because what fits one car, might not fit another. I will not be held responsible for incorrect wheel fitment because the owner of the car did not verify measurements on their own vehicle.

Tyler

[TitoJones]

Here is the start of the T-56 FAQ page, please let me know if you think of anything else. I'm working on the chassis specific questions right now, so feel free to ask those if you don't see your question in this list.

T-56 six speed Q & A

Part 1: Basics

What year T-56 should I look for, and what cars did they come in?

What is the difference between the LT1 style T-56, the LSX style T-56 and the aftermarket T56?

Can I convert my LT1 style T-56 to an LS1 style T56 or vice versa?

Can I use an LT1 T-56 behind my LSX or B-O-P style engine?

Can I use an LSX style T-56 behind my SBC, BBC or B-O-P engine?

How can I tell what T-56 I have?

What are the issues I will need to address when attempting a retro-fit of a T-56 into any vehicle not originally equipped with one?

What is the difference between the LT1 and the LS1 T-56 hydraulic assemblies?

What are the electrical connections on the T-56, and do I need to hook them up?

Is there an SFI blow-proof option available for my T-56?

How do I determine what flywheel I need for my application?

What are my options for a clutch on a T56?

Do I have to use the hydraulics on the T-56 to make it work in my car?

I don’t see a T-56 install kit listed for my vehicle. Are you planning on making one?

What kind of transmission mount do I need to install on my T-56?

Why don’t you mention the other T-56 variants (Viper, mustang, etc) or offer any support for them?

How many teeth does the T-56 VSS sensor have so I know what to set for my Abbott Cable-X box?

What do I need to do to re-use my factory speedometer with my T-56?

What is the spline count on the T-56 input shaft?

What is the spline count on the T-56 output shaft?

What are the most common failures on the T-56?

What kind of starter should I use with the T-56?

What are the gear ratios available for the T-56?

What rear end ratio should I use with my T-56?

What fluid and capacity should I use with the T-56?

Where do I add fluid in the T-56?

Where do I drain the fluid from a T-56?


Can you guys think of any others?

Tyler

[mr5231]

those are all great questions that I know I have asked or had to get answered.

How about this one,

What modifications need to be done to aftermarket (DSE) or factory lower A arms when installing chicane coil over brackets?

Also, when you write the answers include pics as well to help the customer along.

Mike