Rack and pinion conversion in chevelle

[Wagonboy]

In my quest to finish the design of my chassis, im trying to nail down the last little details. I want to run a power rack and pinion on my 64 wagon. So far, these are the known factors: ART A-arms w/shockwaves, Wilwood big brake conversion (most likely 12.2 rotors) And I plan on running a TPI 350 out of a late 80's IROC(for power steering pump fitment) Is there a conversion kit out there, (that I wont regret buying)???? lol...

Tony

[LowBuckX]

:hammer: Not sure why you would "have" to run a late 80s tpi motor just for power steering fitment.. I have a GM type II pump on my 406 circa 1972 motor.

As for the Rack n pinion steering gear one of our sponcers offers a nice looking unit. http://www.unisteer.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=UNISTEER&Product_Code=8010770-01&Category_Code=CHEVROLET+CHVL


Ive seen the machine work involved and I must say its top notch if I dont say so myself/// LOL ... :hammer:

[Wagonboy]

i dont have to..i just stated that so they new what motor i was running, in case the pumps on the kits were specific to engine type. I never said I HAD to run the TPI 350...thats just what i chose to run

[70LS1NOVA]

Anyone here actually do the Unisteer swap? I'm thinking about putting one in my LS1 powered 70 Nova and wondering if it's worth it, and how much aggravation is involved in the swap.

[MonzaRacer]

If I hand my choice UNLESS you have put in a Corvette front end give Tom a call at Lee Power steering and get price on a performance gear box. A lot less crap to go through and any pump that makes pressure will make any power steering unit be it box or rack function.
[email protected]
818-768-0371

[Wagonboy]

I just wanted to convert to a rack and pinion because I think it looks alot cleaner.... thats the underlying theme to my car ...clean and simple

[steeryourite]

Wagonboy,
Hi I run Unisteer, our kits come with a pump and bracket for your small bock....all bolts on. We have sold over 100 kits to date, no problems, no tech calls, only praise.
Ive been part of this forum for a couple years now, and not to sound pissy, but everytime a rack kit is brought up Tom Lee is always brought up. How come? As far as I can see he's not even a advertiser. I know Tom, and he makes a good product, but why does MonzaRacer always make a point to tell guys looking for a rack kit that Lee is the way to go. Id be happy to put our kit up against any box. Put each on the track and see what the results are. Ive been doing steering for 17 years now and I can hostley tell you that the box set ups have twice the amount of pivot points, which lead to more play and play equalls slop. Plus boxes without a doubt wear out quicker than racks. There is a reason that all OEMs use racks in favor of boxes, they are more reliable, last longer, and are more responsive. Like I said I'll put our kit against any other, rack or box, on the track.

[dipren443]

Nice to see a supplier chime in on this. I think I speak for many on here in saying that a well engineered R&P has the potential to outperform a steering box. However, the majority of the R&P retrofit kits suffer from contrived mounting bracketry and bumpsteer issues. I cannot speak for Unisteer set ups as I have no first hand experience. How do the Unisteer kits fare when it comes to bump steer??


Wagonboy,
Hi I run Unisteer, our kits come with a pump and bracket for your small bock....all bolts on. We have sold over 100 kits to date, no problems, no tech calls, only praise.
Ive been part of this forum for a couple years now, and not to sound pissy, but everytime a rack kit is brought up Tom Lee is always brought up. How come? As far as I can see he's not even a advertiser. I know Tom, and he makes a good product, but why does MonzaRacer always make a point to tell guys looking for a rack kit that Lee is the way to go. Id be happy to put our kit up against any box. Put each on the track and see what the results are. Ive been doing steering for 17 years now and I can hostley tell you that the box set ups have twice the amount of pivot points, which lead to more play and play equalls slop. Plus boxes without a doubt wear out quicker than racks. There is a reason that all OEMs use racks in favor of boxes, they are more reliable, last longer, and are more responsive. Like I said I'll put our kit against any other, rack or box, on the track.

[steeryourite]

dipren,
Im glad I can contribute. Ohhhhh I agree that rack kits in the past and present have been cobbled up messes. We strictly adhere to reducing bump steer from the factory set up. The Chevelle kit we offer has
.030 of tow out through its entire travel. Compressed
.020, rebound.010. Thats a big impovement over factory set up. The key is to get the inner tie rods at the right height, and match the swing of the control arms. The A Body was difficult to engineer, but the result was unbelievable. Not to bash my competitor but(Flaming#@%$&^) there stuff is crap. I worked for them 10 yrs and know that they have no clue. Just ask them for bump steer specs, see what they say. Besides that their kits are down right scary. A thin wall bracket that hooks to a conventional rack holding the inner ends???? Its gotta twist. Have you ever seen an OE do that? Im just worried that someone will get hurt, and that will tarnish rack kits even more. BEWARE!!!! I work with many companies that are competetors(Total ConTrol, RRS, Randalls) and we all agree that FR's kits are not safe. Hope this info is usefull.

[TitoJones]

Wagonboy,
Hi I run Unisteer, our kits come with a pump and bracket for your small bock....all bolts on. We have sold over 100 kits to date, no problems, no tech calls, only praise.
Ive been part of this forum for a couple years now, and not to sound pissy, but everytime a rack kit is brought up Tom Lee is always brought up. How come? As far as I can see he's not even a advertiser. I know Tom, and he makes a good product, but why does MonzaRacer always make a point to tell guys looking for a rack kit that Lee is the way to go. Id be happy to put our kit up against any box. Put each on the track and see what the results are. Ive been doing steering for 17 years now and I can hostley tell you that the box set ups have twice the amount of pivot points, which lead to more play and play equalls slop. Plus boxes without a doubt wear out quicker than racks. There is a reason that all OEMs use racks in favor of boxes, they are more reliable, last longer, and are more responsive. Like I said I'll put our kit against any other, rack or box, on the track.

I'm a Lee dealer, and I use his boxes exclusively. So I pay for Tom Lee to be on this site.

That said, our 670 box will feel exactly like your R&P kit will, and will do it for almost $500 less. I'll take you up on the track offer. We can have clients get in each one and try to tell us which has a P/S box, and which one has a rack.
I'm going to bet that without looking, no one can tell the difference in steering feel between the two. There are much better ways to spend $1000 than going to a rack on a stock frame.

What happens when my client is on the Hot Rod Power Tour and they have a steering part fail? Do they have to come back to me for my proprietary items, or can they get it at any parts store? I like the fact that I know I can get a replacement part to my client 30 years from now since they are everywhere and not made by only one aftermarket company.

Tyler

[steeryourite]

Tito,
You get the car, I'll send the parts. As far as your coments about failure on the road, what parts are you refering to? Boxes need to have seals replaced, so do Racks. My kit uses factory seals. If your Lee sector or worm fails, there isnt a part store in the contry that have those. Our company have been rebuilding racks for 25 years, we are all former TRW guys and we can honestly tell you, gear boxes are more subseptible to failure than racks. Boxes have many more parts that can fail. Sector shaft are know to wear as are sector bushings, ball bearings, bearing cages, as well as valves. None of these would be able to be replaced on the road. Worst case for a rack is that a tie rod gets damaged. We only use low friction inner and outer ends which can have a life span of 50, 60, 70k miles. Plus all our kits have a lifetime warranty. How bout your boxes?
How do you know that your box feels like a rack....have you tried ours...Ive tried the Lee box.

[steeryourite]

Oh....When Kyle Tucker and Detroit Speed designed there new front end for Camaros, why didnt he use the same 600 box that is supose to be so great? No....he used a rack

[shep]

Is the rack a bolt in deal or is frame modification required? I assume the figures you gave are for stock spindles and steering arms. What about aftermarket spindles ATS, fatman etc.? I realize that each will be different so is the rack adjustable to get the specs stated above?

[steeryourite]

Shep,
It is a bolt on....no mods needed, it comes with a new aluminum TC pump, brackets, hoses, steering shaft. My specs are based on factory spindles. If your using aftermarket spindles that maintain the stock steering arm location its the same.
I still cant understand the logic that a 40 year old steering design is as good as our updated kit. Just look at a center link design(steering box) and you'll see all the extra moving parts. Im not say Lee's boxes are bad, Im saying the center link design is bad. Its hard to argue that no modern car uses that design. Even in racing.....yes NASCAR still does, but any real road race car uses rack and pinion steering.....

[Wagonboy]

So i have been doing some reading on the Unisteer kit, and I like it. My questions are, Im planning on laying frame, flat out on the ground, this may constitute some engine K-member modification, as well as drop spindles. do you have some very specific install pics of the rack on a 64 or 65 chevelle, and how much would this kit cost including pump, shipped to seattle.

Tony

[LowBuckX]

I would call for pricing. Steeryourite whats your name

If Im correct I believe Factory five racing..Heidts... Alston.. And Art Morrison use variouse Unisteer/ Maval products as well. Polaris also

[dipren443]

Oh....When Kyle Tucker and Detroit Speed designed there new front end for Camaros, why didnt he use the same 600 box that is supose to be so great? No....he used a rack

I don't think anyone is going to doubt that a R&P is preferred when building a custom frame, i.e. Detroit Speed. The fact of the matter is that a R&P uses fewer moving parts. They are more direct and are far more mechanically efficient.

I think the R&P retrofit kits have been subject to a bad reputation since all of the early players were peddling street rod stuff and not concerned about the actual performance and design of the whole thing. So, if someone were to bring to the table a properly engineered rack that will put up to track abuse and provide optimal geometry, I think many of the naysayers will go away.

Steeryourite, can you provide some detailed pics of the mounting bracket?

Oh, and if you can figure out how to get a rack with proper geometry into a stock framed 2nd gen Camaro, then you will definitely have my interest.

[steeryourite]

Wagon,
You can download the install instructions from our web site. Ill send you the link. Download the PDF. It says 68-72, but its the same for all A bodies.
http://www.unisteer.com/help/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=view
The cost is $1774, and that includes everything, Pump, Hoses, Pulley, Pump Bracket, Reservoir, Steering Shaft. Ill give you the discount we were running on Pro Touring which was 10% off and free freight.
Lowbuck,
Same goes for you, Im Dave Batke but Ive informed my office staff that you guys may be calling and yes we supply Alston, Heidts, TCI, Morrison, and many others.

[70LS1NOVA]

steeryourite, I've been reading and chasing rack and pinion install threads for a month now and as of this morning, I was leaning toward the lee box from ATS. My situation is a bit different because I have an LS1 in a 70 nova. My oil pan is already modified for the drag link since I've been driving the car for two years now. Some other posts I've read on Ls1tech mention grinding your banjo fittings and grinding and cutting motor mounts to make clearance. That scared me away. If I'm paying $1000 (or more) for this kit, I would like it to bolt up and work. Do you recommend any certain vendors motor mount plates to work best with the conversion? How does the rack feel with a stock 99 LS1 PS pump? I currently have a GM 2 1/2 turn box in it, so will I feel a great improvement over this box? Also wondering will the Lee box have much of an improved feel over the gm quick ratio box....your time is appreciated.
Mark

[UNISTEER]

our 670 box will feel exactly like your R&P kit will, and will do it for almost $500 less. There are much better ways to spend $1000 than going to a rack on a stock frame.
Tyler

Tyler,

With all due respect this statement is a little vague because simply bolting a box on a car with used frontend parts is indeed cheaper, but that is a "apples to oranges" comparison when you compare it to our rack kits. Our rack kit obviously replaces ALL of the steering parts (Centerlink, Pitman & Idler Arms, Inner & Outer Tie Rods & Adjusting Sleeves).

These parts can really add up (usually $350-$500.00 or even more).

As a Unisteer salesman, I try to ask our customers if they have recently replaced these items and if they have I suggest our 600 box which is the great deal at only $449.00 (with the proper rag-joint & hose fitting adapters).

http://www.unisteer.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=8040050&Store_Code=UNISTEER

Throw in the Pro-Touring discount and that is an incredible $404.10 shipped to your door.

[UNISTEER]

You can dramitically upgrade & improve the steering & handling of your 1964-72 GM A-Bodies with one of our new rack & pinion kits.

Our rack kit easily bolts on & includes the rack & mounting bracket. The kits are designed to be used in conjunction with our various power steering pump kits with either remote resevoirs or a clip-on resevoir for short or long water pump Big Blocks or Small Blocks.

You can also select one of our steering shaft kits to suit your needs whether you have a stock or aftermarket steering column.
Our Chevelle kits feature a black powdercoated, heavy duty bracket which eliminates any twisting or flexing present in the competitor's kits; take a look.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/09/801070001-1.jpg








You won't have to worry about ground clearance with our kit either.








https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/09/Chevellepics016-1.jpg





We are currently offering a 10% discount & FREE SHIPPPING (to lower 48 states only) until the end of March on anything we sell.
So if you are interested in improving the steering of your ride take a look at our website and use the discount code: PT-10

[TitoJones]

Tito,
You get the car, I'll send the parts. As far as your coments about failure on the road, what parts are you refering to? Boxes need to have seals replaced, so do Racks. My kit uses factory seals. If your Lee sector or worm fails, there isnt a part store in the contry that have those. Our company have been rebuilding racks for 25 years, we are all former TRW guys and we can honestly tell you, gear boxes are more subseptible to failure than racks. Boxes have many more parts that can fail. Sector shaft are know to wear as are sector bushings, ball bearings, bearing cages, as well as valves. None of these would be able to be replaced on the road. Worst case for a rack is that a tie rod gets damaged. We only use low friction inner and outer ends which can have a life span of 50, 60, 70k miles. Plus all our kits have a lifetime warranty. How bout your boxes?
How do you know that your box feels like a rack....have you tried ours...Ive tried the Lee box.

I'm refering to anything that comes on your kit. Do you provide a parts list of items I can get at a Napa, autozone or GM dealer? Does the rack come off a certain model year of car? What about the outer tie rod ends, or steering shaft?

On a factory steering system you can get every item at multiple parts stores- because it is factory. No one is going to open up their steering box to replace a worm gear or some balls- they just replace the box if it were to ever fail (highly unlikely.)

Tom Lee takes apart brand new delphi boxes because they are so bad from the factory, that they would never pass his inspection. He mics every single ball, replaces all the valving with ones from a rack and pinion, blueprints the internals as he re-assembles it, and then dyno tests the box before it even sees a clients hands. I don't know of any other company that does this to NEW units. DSE doesn't, flaming river doesn't, Unisteer doesn't. Point being, the valving is what makes a box feel like a rack. I have driven multiple car with racks and not a single one impressed me enough to ever bother putting one on a car with a stock frame. Most had notchy spots where the 3 U joints required to get around the headers would bind up. A few had bashed in oil pans to make them fit, or completely inaccessible fittings for servicing after they were installed.

I purchased a car that had a Lee box installed on it 21 years ago, and after replaceing the idler arm ($65) it felt brand new again. That box will take one hell of a beating and still keep on giving the feedback and road feel I want.

As far as spending money on a rack vs a box-
670 P/S box- $515
Moog idler arm- $65
Moog pitman arm- $70
Moog inner tie rods (x2)- $56
Moog outer tie rods (x2)- $54

Total- $760.00

I can still find more great ways to spend that remaining $240 instead of going with a rack.

As far as not understanding the logic of how a 40year old box can do everything your rack can do-
It all about the valving. The 670 box uses a rack and pinion valve setup. The road feel, and feedback is identical to a rack. They feel the exact same as you drive it. It does not have the over-assisted vague feel that the early model boxes have, and most linkage when kept greased and in good order will last 15-20+ years. Your making it sound like boxes fail yearly, and linkage will be lucky to get a few hundred miles out of it. I have another 68 Camaro that has factory everything and it has zero slop after 40 years.

Who cares how many connections or moving items the linkage has if it works? The drag link is non-wearable on the Camaro, the adjusting sleeves will never need to be replaced, the pitman arm doesn't wear hardly at all. Hell we can use factory linkage with our AFX spindle and a 670 steering box and destroy any bumpsteer figures that anyone has been able to put out- aftermarket frame included.

Tyler

[LowBuckX]

Lowbuck,
Same goes for you, Im Dave Batke but Ive informed my office staff that you guys may be calling and yes we supply Alston, Heidts, TCI, Morrison, and many others.

Dave maybe we can talk about it over coffee. I work very very close to you.

[steeryourite]

Guys,
I am going to answer 70LS1 off line. I will tell you that you will only see posts from me from now on and if you have any questions please contact me.

[Wagonboy]

huh:confused:

[steeryourite]

I am trulely sorry that I have not been able to express my technical insight to all my employees. From now on you will only get posts from me.
70LS1NOVA,
I have yet to hear from anyone that has had to modify the banjo fittings on our kit. It does require a front sump pan, but thats should be all thats required. Fee free to call me and I'll supply install pics. Im sorry about my sales guy's advice, he a bit of a novice, and he his no longer to post on the sight.
Dave

[Marcus SC&C]

I`ll say up front that I`m a Lee dealer and have been nothing less than thrilled with their boxes. They`re by far the best boxes we`ve ever used period and truthfully have much better road feel and response than many factory R&P cars. IMO they offer the best performance for the buck out there. On top of that Tom Lee is a great guy to deal with and knows more about steering gear than most whole companies will ever begin know.
I`ve spoken out against poorly concieved and executed R&P conversions many times. I don`t suffer fools lightly.
All that said Dave and Unisteer know their stuff pretty well too apparently. I`ve talked to Dave a number of times and we actually have a Unisteer R&P on our A body test chassis as I type this. They agreed to let us test one even after I used "The B Word" :eek: (bumpsteer gauge)!
Well,they did their homework. The geometry is very good and bumpsteer is reduced to as little as we get with our StreetComp packages. It`s so good that the R&P conversion will require a few tweaks to work well with our packages. Basically a two rights make a wrong thing. I haven`t driven a car with the Unisteer R&P conversion so I can`t speak for the feel of the system at all but the install is common sense,brackets are well made and the steering shaft angle doesn`t require 27 U joints to get to the column. If you really have your heart set on a R&P for your A body Unisteers is the only one I would consider. Mark SC&C

[Wagonboy]

Thanks for your words Mark. My mind is made up that I am running a R&P, and from what I am hearing Unisteer may be my best choice.

[LowBuckX]

I`ll say up front that I`m a Lee dealer and have been nothing less than thrilled with their boxes. They`re by far the best boxes we`ve ever used period and truthfully have much better road feel and response than many factory R&P cars. IMO they offer the best performance for the buck out there. On top of that Tom Lee is a great guy to deal with and knows more about steering gear than most whole companies will ever begin know.
I`ve spoken out against poorly concieved and executed R&P conversions many times. I don`t suffer fools lightly.
All that said Dave and Unisteer know their stuff pretty well too apparently. I`ve talked to Dave a number of times and we actually have a Unisteer R&P on our A body test chassis as I type this. They agreed to let us test one even after I used "The B Word" :eek: (bumpsteer gauge)!
Well,they did their homework. The geometry is very good and bumpsteer is reduced to as little as we get with our StreetComp packages. It`s so good that the R&P conversion will require a few tweaks to work well with our packages. Basically a two rights make a wrong thing. I haven`t driven a car with the Unisteer R&P conversion so I can`t speak for the feel of the system at all but the install is common sense,brackets are well made and the steering shaft angle doesn`t require 27 U joints to get to the column. If you really have your heart set on a R&P for your A body Unisteers is the only one I would consider. Mark SC&C

Marcus I was waiting to hear of your findings. I remember you made mention of getting one and testing it in a post some time ago. Got a pic of it installed? would love to see it.

[steeryourite]

Thanks Marc,
We still have to make you outer tie rods. Have you contacted Brian in my office? If you have had any proplem getting anything call me directly
Dave

[Marcus SC&C]

Thanks Dave. We`ve been so hammered lately (which is great!) that I haven`t had the time to pursue all of the new projects as much as I`d like. I`ll drop Brian a line and we`ll get to it soon. Mark SC&C