It's Officially Dubbed Project P.O.S.

[70bird]

Hi all, I am not a happy camper today as I have found some rust in my roof and upper quarter panels that I fear is going to require, at the very least, removing the Q/panels to access for rust treatment of wheelhouse etc. Not to mention the condition of the panels themselves.

Here’s my roof and rear quarters stripped of paint. Even though I’m pretty sure I have a good idea what You all are going to tell me, I thought I would post this up. I hope to get some advice on how to save as much of this metal that I can as 70-73 rear quarters seem to be nearly non-existent.( No re-pops yet for firebird) Only the roof and upper sail panels are rusty because this was a Vinyl top car that evidently sat in a wet place for some time.

Not so bad at first glance



Pass.side window channel after rust cut out


rust is every where including tops of wheelhouses.


Spots like this all over roof and sail panels

Pinholes in sail panel 2 small ones on roof like this




I plan to replace the roof unless someone can tell me a way to save it (fingers crossed). The sail panels will be much tougher to find, and I have had no luck finding used full panels.

So, give it to me sraight guys (I can take it) Can these panels be saved?

How much would I expect to pay for labor to replace q/panels?

Labor for just sail panels?



Labor for Roof replacement?

I know that you can't give me an "quote" here, just looking for ballpark figures

Anyone have a source for these 1/4 panels?

Thanks for looking and any input is greatly appreciated
Mark

[redfire69]

Yikes ...sorry to see this. My 2 cents would be to replace at least the roof, possibly the quarters. I've not been able to source full quarters or those sail pans. I'll check some other contacts I have.... Good luck - Ron

[Happyfunballs]

Is that the worst of it? I don't see any panels in those pics that needs to be replaced. Obviously some window channel needs to be repaired, but thats it. Take care in getting all of the rust out of those pits, clean up the metal real good, skim coat of filler and your off. Am I missing something?

[70bird]

Is that the worst of it? I don't see any panels in those pics that needs to be replaced. Obviously some window channel needs to be repaired, but thats it. Take care in getting all of the rust out of those pits, clean up the metal real good, skim coat of filler and your off. Am I missing something?

Thanks for some encouragement
No, I don't think you are missing anything you can see in the pix. Unfortunately, in person, you can see inside, on pass.side to the tops of the wheelhouses, via the cuts I made in window channel. This area has some fairly heavy surface rust, every where I can see, inluding the under side of roof, and look much like this pic:



I'm not as concerned about the roof since those are readily available, new or used, as a last resort. I just wonder how much metal will be left after rust removal. Some of the pitting is pretty deep.

My main concern is the 1/4 panels on the inside, and wheelhouse areas. How will I access those areas for rust removal without removing the panels?

I am pretty sure a good metal man can repair the sail panels and window channel, but again, what about the backsides of these?

I wonder if blasting media would "miss" some of the real tight areas, like in the top of the wheel opening area. Would cutting out only the s/panels provide enough access for media blasting? Is there another process short of "dipping" the car?

Also, if the 1/4 panels need to be removed, would I be able to re-use them if replacements are not available?

My original plan for this car was to include a respectable paint job, and after learning recently how much a "decent" job will cost, I am a little hesitant, to say the least, of just taking a "good enough" aproach to making the repairs.

For the benefit of anyone reading this: don't ever assume you are buying a "rust free car, just because it came from the sothwest or CA. Or, from a "known source" BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!

Thanks for looking to all, and please keep the suggestions coming!
Mark

[redfire69]

The pits on the roof look pretty deep, and of course you can go as far as you think you need to, as well as what you can live with. My opinion is its cheaper to replace the panels that you can instead of wondering about lurking rust. From my limited experience, I wouldn't remove the quarters unless you were going to replace them. Removing them usually involves grinding or drilling away factory spot welds, etc. Again, only my opinion and best of luck.... Ron

edit: 1/2 quarter patch panels are available at most suppliers.

[70bird]

edit: 1/2 quarter patch panels are available at most suppliers.

Yes, I have found these as well.

Why in the world would they not have included the sail panel/roofline with this? The rear bumper mount locations are exclusive to 70-73 Firebirds, and won't work for later years, so WTF? It is the same s/panel as 70-73 Camaro (Not available seperately for Firebird or Camaro)yet the full panel is available for Camaro!

Once again the F/bird gets no love! LOL Ok, just a liitle!
Alright, I'm starting to rant now

Pleases keep the suggestions coming
Thanks, Mark

[Happyfunballs]

I wouldn't remove a panel just because of some surface rust on the back side. When my car was on the rotisserie, I poured some of Eastwoods rust encapsulator in the area where the rust is. Turned the car a bit, and poured a little more. The rest I got with an undercoating gun. This certainly isn't the best way of doing it, but it beats removing welded panels. I would consider getting your car bead(or soda) blasted to get rid of the rust in the pits. Unless the metal is rotted or won't stand up to a spirited stab with a flat blade screwdriver, it's good stuff and probably shouldn't be replaced. JMO.

[MonzaRacer]

Ok first I would try to get as much rust removed by soda blasting, then look for a shop that uses the rustbusters process. It entails the use of a special gun/welder type unit that feeds 2 wires into an airstream and sprays a plasma spray from the arc point ontot the panel being repaired.
http://www.rustbusters.com/
I am lookingat getting a system but its going to take time and I am Indiana, but I found it in one of the car mags ,they repaired an ElCamino rear window. and its 93% pure zinc, ie no rusting!

[70bird]

Ok first I would try to get as much rust removed by soda blasting, then look for a shop that uses the rustbusters process. It entails the use of a special gun/welder type unit that feeds 2 wires into an airstream and sprays a plasma spray from the arc point ontot the panel being repaired.
http://www.rustbusters.com/
I am lookingat getting a system but its going to take time and I am Indiana, but I found it in one of the car mags ,they repaired an ElCamino rear window. and its 93% pure zinc, ie no rusting!

You da Man!! I now remember seeing that artiicle too. i'll check my area
Many thanks, Mark

[mikey]

I hate to tell you this but if you've got pinholes then the other pits aren't far from becoming holes also. You could probably make patches for the sail panels but just eliminate the future possibility of rust returning and replace the roof. It's cheaper to do it now than 2-3 years after its painted. Rust is like cancer get it all or it will be back with a vengence.

[Happyfunballs]

MR, we use that exact process for regalving weld seams when producing galvanized tubing. Intresting application for rust holes. I'm not sure how paint would take to the zinc. I know paint adheasion to pure galvanized can be questionable.

[redfire69]

I've heard of some old school guys use brazing to fill in rust pits in window channels, etc....

[indyjps]

Ive been thinking of trying to shoot por 15 out of one of these 90 degree tips to get to hard to reach areas. I havent gotten around to trying it. Im looking for a tip that will spray a 360 degree circle 90 degrees to the paint supply. This would be great to feed into rockers and 1/4 panels then just weld up the access hole.
PM if you have any ides about a tip that can be used.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...emType=PRODUCT

[70bird]

Well, I took the car to a local shop today to let someone look at this thing up close. It was recommended by him, as well as by others who have responded here, that the roof be replaced or re-skinned at the least. Only problem I ran into with this shop in particular, is he wouldn't give me a price for repairs. He just kind' of stuttered and stammered and shook his head and said there are too many variables to give me even a ballpark figure. Even when pressed to give a price for replacing just the roof, he said "probably 20-25 hours for the roof alone", I thought we were getting somewhere and then he backed that up with "I don't know, $1000.00 or maybe $2000.00". Seems like a big spread for a known quantity of time. This guy didn't have much interest in my car, and I don't think he much needs the work as he has a 2 month waiting list. I wonder if it's going to be like this at another shop.

Now, I am on the hunt for a good roof donor. I don't expect this will be hard as I have found several in the local yards here. I plan to get this thing soda blasted to remove rust, and then treat it.
This leaves me with having to patch the upper sail panels as I cannot find any, new or used.

BTW, I just posted another thread in paint and body to try and hook up with someone local (SoCal) that would be interested in any barter, trade, cash, or cash for work on my car.
If you are intersted, look here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=38912

Thanks for all the help, Mark

[mikey]

Labor time sond pretty fair to me. But he's right there are some variables those being are the pinch welds damaged. I believe you are right in assuming he's not interrested. The way I do it if I'm not interrested is just shoot them a high price more often than not I don't have to mess with anything I don't want. If I do well it's usually enough to get me interrested. It's easier to sort out the serious from the maaco types too.

[70bird]

Labor time sond pretty fair to me. But he's right there are some variables those being are the pinch welds damaged. I believe you are right in assuming he's not interrested. The way I do it if I'm not interrested is just shoot them a high price more often than not I don't have to mess with anything I don't want. If I do well it's usually enough to get me interrested. It's easier to sort out the serious from the maaco types too.

I do see your point as I do this often in my own industry. I also shoot out a high price for jobs that will likely be a headache. But, I always give a price and let the customer decide. I will pay a price that is reasonable, even if it is more than I expected But I don't think I would drop off my car ANYWHERE with a blank check attached.
Maybe that's just me. Mark

[mikey]

I do see your point as I do this often in my own industry. I also shoot out a high price for jobs that will likely be a headache. But, I always give a price and let the customer decide. I will pay a price that is reasonable, even if it is more than I expected But I don't think I would drop off my car ANYWHERE with a blank check attached.
Maybe that's just me. Mark

I totally agree with you on the blank check. A decent shop will be able to quote a firm price on the skin alone. Then also give you a rough price to repace any roof bows ect. and adjust it as required for hidden rust. I would tell them you want to see the hidden rust bfore they perform any repairs to just cya, If they can't or wont discuss a potential high price with you it's time to walk. Believe me they know what it takes to replace the hidden parts repairing them is a big?.