Sprayable Body Filler

[rubadub]

Just want to pass on what I have read on different forums.

For us amateurs like myself, if the pros see a mistake here, please feel free to correct me.

I will mention three sprayable body fillers here, there are more.

1. Featherfill by evercoat

2. Slicksand by evercoat, slicksand kind of replaced featherfill as far popularity

3. Z-chrome by Clausen

Sprayable body filler is also called, Polyester Primer Surfacer.

Its a two part, Or 2k, as in two componets, it has a hardener or catalyst, or something mixed with it. Its not a single component, as in one part.

They all have a resin and talc in them, so there not waterproof, only waterproof if sealed under and over by another product.

So we have sprayable body filler, versus the body filler in a can that we call mud or bondo, that also has a hardener in a little tube that we squeeze out in a ribbon, and mix it in with a putty knife or spreader.

Why use a sprayable body filler.

If you have several dents along the side of your car, you fill them with bondo, its hard to get the panels straight by working each dent.

So we have all the dents filled and sanded, go out the next morning, and feel along the side of the car, and it still feels a little wavy.

Another thing that comes into play, you might have a little shrinkage with the bondo areas. Anyway we'll spray some 2k urethane, like maybe some k-38 or whatever you like, a couple coats, then we'll sand that off, but somewhere along the line, we will cut through the k-38 and see bondo.

So respray some more k-38 and sand again, then hopefully we won't sand through to bondo again, but its a pretty good bet we will.

This is where sprayable body filler comes into the program. We'll spray the whole side of the car, and this will be a lot thicker them the k-38 we just sprayed, gives us some working room, get a longer sanding block out, and your not going to break through to the bondo underneath as easy.

You will see the different colored bondo under the sprayable filler if you do sand through it.

Because the sprayable filler is so much thicker, you can cross hatch sand with a block to get those panels straight.

So sprayable filler is just bondo out of a spray can, only layed out more evenly on those body panels.

If you use sprayable body filler, you will need a larger nozzle for your spray gun, get the one they call for, or it could get nasty.

I use z-chrome sprayable body filler, but I'm sure some of these others are just as good or maybe better, I've only used one brand.

When your spraying it, you will need to kind of shake the spray gun around every so often, because the filler will separate in the paint cup and kind of settle to the bottom.

A little on just body filler here, or mud or bondo. We here rage or rage gold mentioned quite a bit, then you hear everglass, duraglass and metal to metal, all of these are bondo.

They all have resin and talc in them, so if it has talc in it, like metal to metal, I just went out to the shop and read it right off the can, its not waterproof like they say. None of it is if it has talc in it.

To the point here, when you put bondo on top of bare metal, there is a chance for condensation to get in between the two, thats why over the last couple of years, for the most part, you hear epoxy this and epoxy that.

Bondo over freshly ground metal will really stick, and might last forever, but cars are subject to temperature change, so why not get the extra protection of an epoxy under the bondo.

I have also read that some of these cars are on there second restoration, I'm guessing here, but if epoxy would have been used, would they have to redo these cars again.

Anyway, one way to go here.

First bare metal, then spray epoxy, then bondo, then sprayable filler, then either more epoxy or a k-38 or some two part urethane primer, should take care of the protection on a car body.

I looked at evercoats tech sheet on spraying epoxy under metal to metal, and they don't mention it, so I don't know whats going on with that, in fact I haven't looked to see if they recommend it under there other body fillers, you can read up on it yourself if you decide on evercoat products, I personnaly haven't noticed anything wrong with them, evercoat, I'm sure is as good or better then others.

Whatever product you buy, get the tech sheet from the counter guy, or have him print one out.

I mentioned everglass and duraglass.

Both of them are bondo, like rage and whatever, but these two have fiberglass mixed in it. If you have welded areas, take it to bare metal, then epoxy, then duraglas, then rage etc.

The fiberglass will hang in there better on the welded joints, so I've read.

This is all pretty basic stuff, if you want more stuff like this, let me know.

Rob

[Smock67]

Thanks for the informative read. I liked that very much too bad i just finished all the body work on my car. this would have been much easier then bondo and icing.

[oestek]

Another benefit to consider with the sprayable polyester is that it greatly reduces the chances and occurances of pinholes... when you mix traditional body filler, you introduce air bubbles into the mix, which can be spread on the panel with the filler. These become "pinholes" when sanded and are exposed, and they will need to be re-surfaced with another filler product. The sprayable goes on wet; it does not hold air pockets.

Another nice feature is that most sprayable products (add Standox to the mix) are very easy to sand.. the Standox product literally feels like sanding chalk. This reduces the effort and time to complete the work.

Here's a video on the subject:

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/368/43/

[Damn True]

Am I wrong or do poly products have to be dry sanded only?

[hotrdblder]

yes they have to be dry sanded why? they are so so nice, especially when blocking inbetween panels, standox builds 40-50 mils in 5 coats, i sand with 100 then 180, then 3 coats of 2k hs system filler, then wet sand 400, wet sand 600
only way to fly

[ProdigyCustoms]

Standox is the snaz! Pricey at $58 per litre, but well worth it. Evercoat is kindergarden. We have a Standox knock off (cannot say it is Standox in a different can for legal reason) that is $40 a litre. We use it a lot, often in place of typical primer building. Our primer is often more of a sealer with the PE Filler doing the filling work.

[Damn True]

So is there no reason to wet-sand primer?

[hotrdblder]

you cannot wet sand poly, it is not water proof, however urethane primer is as waterproof as clear, i always wet sand the urethane with 400 then 600. however yes you can dry sand 400 then 600 also, i prefer wet as it cleanes up better and i rinse the whole car before spraying anyway.
jake

[Taylor1969]

Standox is the snaz! Pricey at $58 per litre, but well worth it. Evercoat is kindergarden. We have a Standox knock off (cannot say it is Standox in a different can for legal reason) that is $40 a litre. We use it a lot, often in place of typical primer building. Our primer is often more of a sealer with the PE Filler doing the filling work.

So what is the stuff you buy at $40 a liter called? :poke:

[ProdigyCustoms]

It is a secret! Actually we import it. it is called MIPA. I need to get my S--t together and get my shipping licsence for it.

[zero g]

Standox is the snaz! Pricey at $58 per litre, but well worth it. Evercoat is kindergarden. We have a Standox knock off (cannot say it is Standox in a different can for legal reason) that is $40 a litre. We use it a lot, often in place of typical primer building. Our primer is often more of a sealer with the PE Filler doing the filling work.

So the Evercoat is not good?

[ProdigyCustoms]

I basically hate it.

[70 Chevelle]

Can anyone tell me what gun their usin with sprayable fillers? Every time I use it ,it turns into a headache. I know the tip on my primer gun is too small. Something affordable if possible. could you also tell me what tip size to use. Sorry, I don't mean to change subjects but it's an important part of laying this stuff down.

[hotrdblder]

iwata has a gun made by an affiliate, called air gunsa, you can find it on iwata's website, i use it for standox pe sprayfiller and i use a 3.0 tip, works great, and you can find them online for 100-150.

[rubadub]

I use a binks #7 with a 36SD air nozzle and a 36 fluid nozzle.

Also use the same setup for ppg dp90lf dp402lf epoxy, lays it on there really nice.

Rob

[Duesey2]

What are you guys filling with this stuff? Just curious as a good metal guy shouldn't need to be spraying filler. Most panels shouldn't need more than a skim for perfection. Does this stuff shrink more than standard filler? I would think it would since normal filler doesn't have solvent evaporation like these sprayables. Only experience I have with featherfill is my grandfather telling me how bad it was in the 70's. It wasn't good from what I remember and he used to say you have no business doing metal work if your using it. He is an old school lead guy that is just now starting to trust plastic fillers. Apparently it wasn't good when it came out. I know my experience is worthless since this stuff has came along way but I was just curious what type of application it's being used for.

[ProdigyCustoms]

What are you guys filling with this stuff? Just curious as a good metal guy shouldn't need to be spraying filler. .

Are you this guy? I am looking for the guy that can do this. Even the great Marcels work has to be filled and blocked, just watch Boyds show. The Polyester Spray filler takes the place of the "skim coat" in most situations without the "skim lines" of bondo. Anything requireing a "skim coat" is much better done with PE filler. Shrink wise, when PE filler tightenes up, it is done shrinking for life. The Germans are the best in the world at paint and body and P and B products, and they have been using PE fillers for many years

[Rick D]

What Frank Said if you can do this with out blocksanding a few time I've got a BIG PAY CHECK for you. Frank we get Mipa reps coming by us all the time, maybe because we are in Chicago market?? We use Spies Hecker from start to finish, used to use Standox for the last 10 years love it. Spies is same product for the most part just diff labels. PE filler is the best for making a car straight.

[customcarpainter]

Sprayable"filler" is like any other product that is used in the paint and body field.If its used properly and not abused it will work as its supposed to.More often than not paint products get abused in the application process,which often results in the product getting a bad rap.If you use the best product in your price range,and use it as the label instructions say,then the results in the end should be satisfactory for your needs.You can't expect a lasting show quality job for 1/2 price.

[Duesey2]

I wasn't trying to stir anything or brag. Just curious as to what type of inperfections your using it for. Just got the sheet metal back from stripping for a 37' cord and I'll be spending all weekend with a pick hammer and body file in my hands. I get it straight with my file and body grinder then I put epoxy primer on. Let it sit a couple weeks and block it with afs blocks picking any low spots that I missed. Then I wipe low spots with steel spreaders and block down. Then a couple more coats of epoxy, block and then usually another coat of epoxy and finish block. Seal and paint. Just what I've been taught and it works really well with minimal materials. I guess my grandfather saw so many problems early with spray fillers and bondo that he strayed away from the products. That is why I was curious as to what is being filled.

[rubadub]

duesy2, that 37 cord you have, has some pretty thick sheet metal, a guy can do quite a bit of grinding and fileing on that, but this is what were working with.

http://www.1969supersport.com/smthoughts.html

Rob

[Duesey2]

Rob,
Your right, old cars have more sheet metal. I have a 69'z28 in the shop that I've already painted. Did the same thing to it and it's not as easy but I did it the same way. Minus the grinder though since muscle car sheetmetal is so thin you can make a mess in a hurry. Just a file, technique, and time. I do like the idea of spraying the filler so their isn't the padel lines but the solvent evaporation has to equate shrinkage. What kind of thickness are we talking about? I don't like to spread fillers more than a 1/16" anywhere but sometimes you have to when you can't get to the backside.

[MrQuick]

I wasn't trying to stir anything or brag. Just curious as to what type of inperfections your using it for. Just got the sheet metal back from stripping for a 37' cord and I'll be spending all weekend with a pick hammer and body file in my hands. I get it straight with my file and body grinder then I put epoxy primer on. Let it sit a couple weeks and block it with afs blocks picking any low spots that I missed. Then I wipe low spots with steel spreaders and block down. Then a couple more coats of epoxy, block and then usually another coat of epoxy and finish block. Seal and paint. Just what I've been taught and it works really well with minimal materials. I guess my grandfather saw so many problems early with spray fillers and bondo that he strayed away from the products. That is why I was curious as to what is being filled.

Its not like they are throwing on Sandy with a texture gun.

[newby]

what ever you do, just remember to sand the crap back down. doing the restoration phase of my car and found literally 1/8" of spray plastic on the whole back half of the car...

when I first started stripping, i was like OH S**T! but it was kind of b.s. Once I got it stripped down, the damage they were covering up was minimal. the shop that did the repairs was just lazy and didn't do any dolly work, they just sprayed it with plastic, primed, painted and out the door.

I told you that story to tell you this one...

I did not see any cracks or other obvious flaws in this 'abuse' case. hell, except for noticing the body lines were a little thick (which I attributed to the known repaint) I thought the car had original sheet metal etc. I was wrong.

anyway, my best guess is that this lazy repair work was done in the mid 80s so that would be a 20yr guarantee for you.

[hotrdblder]

hate to tell ya but pe spray filler looks noting like body filler, doesn't strip, sand or other anything like body filler. not sure what was on your car

[Gordz32]

At BOS, we strip to bare metal, DP epoxy coat, then do our body work and gap adjustments, then we use PCL 901 poly 2K 3 coats, then dry sand, then we use a high build urethane 3 coats, Wetsand , Seal it DP 1 med/wet coat and paint. If you can metal finsh a car thats great but most customers to wanna pay for the time it takes. Not to mention the body fillers and primers today a lightyears away from what they used to be so its okay as long aas they r used correctly.

[newby]

hate to tell ya but pe spray filler looks noting like body filler, doesn't strip, sand or other anything like body filler. not sure what was on your car

I dont want to hijack this thread, but it definitely wasn't any type of filler I had seen before. it was a very light color (almost like an off white), evenly coated throughout the entire back half of the car, no lines from being applied in layers, did not smell like bondo coming off (judging from my cloths, i always wear a respirator) and was super easy to knock off with a wire brush. I did find some regular old bondo under it in some bad places. but I could see the layers and it was a the normal pinkish color and was much more difficult to sand

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I use Spies-Hecker Spray Poly and love it. Its going to make my Vette project MUCH easier. Its relatively straight (for a Vette), but this stuff is awesome on fiberglass, and will enable me to get out all the imperfections with ease. I'll be doing the whole car in Spies-Hecker products.:seizure:

[Duesey2]

Gordz32, that is a lot of material to pile onto bare metal. Not to mention plenty of solvent evaporation. I guess I can't see as to what needs that kind of fill. Oh, and be careful with that vette, less is more with fiberglass. C3's are better than the early cars but they still can soak up material like a sponge. Absolutely no reason to use any kinds of spray poly on a c3. Vette bond for the seams and a couple rounds of epoxy work great on vettes. I guess when I do a car I want it to look the same in 20 years but some of the procedures I see around here are suspect to redo in 5years. I'm not trying to insult anyone, just my opinion from experience.

[hotrdblder]

duesey please show us all your killer metal work, you must be better then troy, berman, ring bros etc, you must have it figured out please show us

[68fusion]

Gordz32, that is a lot of material to pile onto bare metal. Not to mention plenty of solvent evaporation. I guess I can't see as to what needs that kind of fill. Oh, and be careful with that vette, less is more with fiberglass. C3's are better than the early cars but they still can soak up material like a sponge. Absolutely no reason to use any kinds of spray poly on a c3. Vette bond for the seams and a couple rounds of epoxy work great on vettes. I guess when I do a car I want it to look the same in 20 years but some of the procedures I see around here are suspect to redo in 5years. I'm not trying to insult anyone, just my opinion from experience.

I'll agree withe the bond but epoxy no way! The solvents used to spray go directly into glass? no gel coat? just like k36 or similar ...looks good till it gets out in the sun - then watchout! sandscratchs , bonding seams repairs ...they all come back.

Poly or gel/combo only way to go!

[danbob67]

I dont want to hijack this thread, but it definitely wasn't any type of filler I had seen before. it was a very light color (almost like an off white), evenly coated throughout the entire back half of the car, no lines from being applied in layers, did not smell like bondo coming off (judging from my cloths, i always wear a respirator) and was super easy to knock off with a wire brush. I did find some regular old bondo under it in some bad places. but I could see the layers and it was a the normal pinkish color and was much more difficult to sand

Sound like marhyd sp? primer to me you can put that stuff on thick and it sands nice and actually hear of alot of people still using it. Kinda of a light tan off white color.

[BADVELLE]

What is PE filler?

[Travis B]

Gordz32, that is a lot of material to pile onto bare metal. Not to mention plenty of solvent evaporation. I guess I can't see as to what needs that kind of fill. Oh, and be careful with that vette, less is more with fiberglass. C3's are better than the early cars but they still can soak up material like a sponge. Absolutely no reason to use any kinds of spray poly on a c3. Vette bond for the seams and a couple rounds of epoxy work great on vettes. I guess when I do a car I want it to look the same in 20 years but some of the procedures I see around here are suspect to redo in 5years. I'm not trying to insult anyone, just my opinion from experience.

I have my bull**** flag at full mass......lets see some pics. I got money that says

A: There is more than 1/16 of filler/product on your car
B: Its not straight
C: all of the above

You cant come into the body section of a Forum and claim you dont use more than 1/16 of filler on a car? Are you building plastic models? lets see some pictures

Im going with C

[Gordz32]

Gordz32, that is a lot of material to pile onto bare metal. Not to mention plenty of solvent evaporation. I guess I can't see as to what needs that kind of fill. Oh, and be careful with that vette, less is more with fiberglass. C3's are better than the early cars but they still can soak up material like a sponge. Absolutely no reason to use any kinds of spray poly on a c3. Vette bond for the seams and a couple rounds of epoxy work great on vettes. I guess when I do a car I want it to look the same in 20 years but some of the procedures I see around here are suspect to redo in 5years. I'm not trying to insult anyone, just my opinion from experience.


Keep in mind that most of that primer gets sanded off, so there really isn't that much material. Our Cars are straight and they shine way better than most. They r straight b/c we block the crap outta them b4 paint. Bottom line is our customers are happy and usually say, the cars turns out to nice! Feel free to stop by the shop, and talk with our customers about how happy they r with our work.

If you can find a customer that would like his car metal finished, and agrees to pay the ridiculous amount of hours it would take to do that good luck and more power to ya. As for right now. I'd really love to see a car that you've done and see JUST HOW STRAIGHT IT IS!!!

Lets try and stay on topic and answer the guys question about spray able body filler. You've spoke ur peace and I suggest you leave it at.

[68fusion]

I have my bull**** flag at full mass......lets see some pics. I got money that says

A: There is more than 1/16 of filler/product on your car
B: Its not straight
C: all of the above

You cant come into the body section of a Forum and claim you dont use more than 1/16 of filler on a car? Are you building plastic models? lets see some pictures

Im going with C:lmao:

I guess there are varrious degrees of "straightness".

[Duesey2]

I'm sorry to stir the pot. Frank was the only guy that really answered my question and I appreciate that. You probably won't have much trouble spraying filler on newer cars. I'm just thinking 20's,30's,40's stuff with distinct lines. The thicker the material the harder it is to get the lines smooth and crisp. Spreadable filler has more control around these lines. I'm sure their are certain areas that have a 1/16" of filler when I'm done. That is about my target for bondo plus the thickness of 2coats epoxy, blocked and 2 more coats.but I'm sure it goes over sometimes. I don't do taco bell cars, I don't use an air board, and I have a 3' afs sander with 40grit klingspor paper that will make a car as straight as anyone can. Once again I apoligize for anything offensive or different from what you use. I'll leave this topic alone.

[HEMIDAYTONA]

I'm sorry to stir the pot. Frank was the only guy that really answered my question and I appreciate that. You probably won't have much trouble spraying filler on newer cars. I'm just thinking 20's,30's,40's stuff with distinct lines. The thicker the material the harder it is to get the lines smooth and crisp. Spreadable filler has more control around these lines. I'm sure their are certain areas that have a 1/16" of filler when I'm done. That is about my target for bondo plus the thickness of 2coats epoxy, blocked and 2 more coats.but I'm sure it goes over sometimes. I don't do taco bell cars, I don't use an air board, and I have a 3' afs sander with 40grit klingspor paper that will make a car as straight as anyone can. Once again I apoligize for anything offensive or different from what you use. I'll leave this topic alone.

just out of curiosty...why would you use 40 grit to sand filler that is that thin. i would think if you spend that much time metal working and using 2 coats primer that you would be in the 100 grit at the coarest.

[indyjps]

he's using the 40 grit on the steel itself.
Ive seen metal finishers in action. I used to run the metal finish shop in a GM stamping plant, what these guys could do with a hammer and file was amazing. Im guessing Duesey2 is using the same techniques.
Ill be using the pe filler myself so keep the discussion going.