Push Button Start with Passive Device Key wanted

[spddmnjay]

I want to install a Push Button Starter and ignition that would have a passive device that the car detects.

Starting procedure would be: insert the card type key into ignition (no turning of ignition required). Car would detect that key has been inserted. Next step: push start button.

Anyone know of an aftermarket setup like this that I could install into my '96 Viper GTS Venom 550 Hennessey car? Here is a link to my Viper build https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33878

[MrQuick]

Im doing a similar set up on my Firebird project. It uses an aftermarket key chain fob and reciever relay that only works when the key chain fob is with in 10 feet. The relay activates the power distibution and ignition circuit.

Then a double latch relay set up runs the starter an ignition kill on the S2000 starter button. I was originaly going to use a Viper push button but the Honda version is illuminated.

Try a google search on "PASSKEY". OR PM Frank about the set up he is using on Empty nest.

[MCMLXIX]

Im doing a similar set up on my Firebird project. It uses an aftermarket key chain fob and reciever relay that only works when the key chain fob is with in 10 feet. The relay activates the power distibution and ignition circuit.

What brand / Mfg did you use for the pass key ... ?

[ProdigyCustoms]

We are in the testing stage right now. but it looks good. All i can say for now.

[novanutcase]

My sisters 2008 Altima has that same setup. Pretty Cool!

John

[JohnC]

We are in the testing stage right now. but it looks good. All i can say for now.

Is there anything new with this? I think I'm in the market... group purchase?

Thanks
John

[CapSS92]

I used one I got from ebay brand new for 25 bux. Search for RFID. Here's a set of 2 for $18. http://cgi.ebay.com/2-TRANSPONDER-RFID-KEY-FOB-proximity-detector_W0QQitemZ260195218977QQihZ016QQcategoryZ9 4830QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Damn True]

Renault has a similar system.

[JohnC]

I used one I got from ebay brand new for 25 bux. Search for RFID. Here's a set of 2 for $18. http://cgi.ebay.com/2-TRANSPONDER-RFID-KEY-FOB-proximity-detector_W0QQitemZ260195218977QQihZ016QQcategoryZ9 4830QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

within 3 inches of the sensor???? even if it was in your pocket and the sensor was right under the seat--I dont think it would be close enough to activate the cellinoid for the push button start. It would be more ideal for door locks like it says.

Am I missing something??

[67rsssls]

Frank,

Can you give us an update on the kit you are working on?

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I would be interested too.

[Mark68]

Frank,

Will this kit work in a '68 Camaro? If so , I am interested in one too!

[esenior]

This might be what you are looking for...

http://www.digitalguarddawg.com/

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I'm looking more for the push button start like on the Honda S2000.

[JohnC]

I'm looking more for the push button start like on the Honda S2000.


Let me know what you come up with, Tom...

[spddmnjay]

I purchased a Honda S2000 push button starter for my Viper on Ebay. The company I purchased it from provided me with a proper wiring connector and wiring diagram specific to my Viper.

The company sells the Honda S2000 starter for all different vehicles and will include the proper wiring diagram, etc.

Sorry I can't remember who the Ebay seller was otherwise I would post it.

[496 ci smblk]

hi guys .
lexus have the push button start and passive key device you are after . check your local dealer or wrecker for a gs 430 or is-f .

[matty b]

Flaming River showed their new setup at SEMA and is based off of GM/Delphi hardware same thing thats in the c6 vette and the caddys with push start. Downside is the parts are $$$ and the kit will cost about 600 and should be available at the start of Feb according to them. So pay attention to their site or call em up.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Surely there must be a more economical way of doing it, right? I mean, it's basically a push button and wiring it into the ignition. Can't anyone come up with a simple setup that doesn't break the bank or am I just oversimplying things?
How about it Frank, any news on your version?

[matty b]

well the flaming river setup is wireless technologyand OEM level quality that allows you to keep your fob in your pocket. If you want a push button keyless ignition I have a little kit that allows you to use one button and it goes off> press button for ign on> hold button for start >let go when car is running> press again to turn it off. You need an alarm or a hidden kill switch though to kill power to the module or someone could just jump in a drive off. Im me if you need any details.

[496 ci smblk]

hi again
check out handa accessories.com for s2000 starter switch

[matty b]

the button by itself is just a momentary switch, you need other parts to facilitate what hes asking for

[DarkoNova]

My question is, what happens to the steering lock? Do you have to pull the column apart and disable the lock? And what about accessories? Would you have constant on for the radio or something?

Matt

[MrQuick]

I would just use an early version (1967) Ididit colunm. Not hard to disable the locking pin though.

[roadracer55]

lol, i just use a push button in combination with something sneaky - a favorite is to wire the cigarette lighter into the ignition, or a couple of switches on your dash. unless the circuit is complete, no ignition. I have a cutout switch on my oil tank shutoff anyway so the ignition wont fire if the oil line is shutoff. You could wire these switches almost anywhere - e.g. the car only starts with the clutch depressed and the gear level in 2nd..whatever you want, right?

Wire and a couple switches is what, $10?

[matty b]

yes thatll work as will a lot of other things, what it wont do is allow you to press the same button to turn the car on, crank the car and shut it off and provide you with a security system that has no mechanical way of being bypassed. Im actively playing with some parts from delphi right now that gives you the smartkey access for the door locks and ignition switch, stay tuned when I have something together Ill post what I did

[MonzaRacer]

Ok so I was working on a 04 GMC W3500 and its wired basicly like an 04 3500 Sierra, the neat thing is that it had a 6.0 LSx.
Well I found the crank wire goes through a fuse to the ECM, the ECM energizes the wire to a relay enguaging the starter solenoid so these vehicles DONT use an actual key to start the engine. The key simply turns off the ECM and it dies.
Figured out the idiots driving the W3500 had used a fuse tap in fuse box and caused the fuse box terminalsto not make contact to the ECM 1 fuse. I wasted a day tracing down the stupid wires from the key to the computer nad computer to start relay.
SO the later GM LSx can be started easily and RF transmitter causing a relay to energixe the fuse(s) to ECM and a simple push button to the black/whie wire through crank fuse, and tada its running.
Have figure out a master kill so you can kill it in emergency like a toggle switch of push on push off switch somewhere easy to access.
Kind of neet finding these things.

[matty b]

or you could get an alarm system with keyless start functionality. The ecm does ground the starter relay when given the enable message from the BCM. In a swap situation where the security in the computer has been programmed out there is no need to have all that though

[Cruiser]

Frank, you have anything on your set up?

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I've been wondering about that too.

[Cruiser]

Bump for Frank

[crazeflier07]

On an S2000 you have to insert the key and turn it until everything is on and they you just push the button instead of turning the key that one more twist to start. All the kits I have seen have had you use the key in the ignition and then instead of turning the key past on to start you just push the button. Figured it was just a matter of cutting one wire and hooking it up to the push button. At least thats what I thought.
~Jon~

[Cruiser]

The new Nissans you have a fob in your pocket. When you come up to the car you unlock it. Get in and push the button, no key required.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Lexus has that setup too but since I don't have power door locks in the 72, I would be happy with putting the key in and turning it to the "run" postion then push the button and off I go.
After you push the button again to stop the engine, turn the key to the "off" position, pull it out and go about my merry way. I like it simple, and the cool factor is still there key fob or not. I would also prefer for the key work like normal just in case!
Now if I decide to someday add power window & locks then I'll be looking for a better bell and whistle.

[matty b]

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR60001/10002/-1?inventoryMessage=in+7-10+days&jspStoreDir=JegsDirect&orderId=2506571&inventoryAvailable=N&catalogId=10002&quantity=1&orderItemId=6888864&langId=-1&catEntryId=970397&addCatEntryId=970397&storeId=10001&ddkey=OrderItemAdd

[Tom 72RS/SS]

No trick remotes but effective.
http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/wiring_accessories.html

[matty b]

that thing sucks!!! I installed one in a camaro recently and was very pissed off with how it works. When you press the button, the starter engages right away and then reverts to the igniton on position. If you want the scematic on making one and the parts list you can build your own for over half the cost of what they are selling it for. IMO its not worth the hassle to hook it up not to mention you have to wire up a bunch of relays to make it work and you lose the ACC postion of your igntion switch. Avoid that product completely

[MrQuick]

that thing sucks!!! I installed one in a camaro recently and was very pissed off with how it works. When you press the button, the starter engages right away and then reverts to the igniton on position. If you want the scematic on making one and the parts list you can build your own for over half the cost of what they are selling it for. IMO its not worth the hassle to hook it up not to mention you have to wire up a bunch of relays to make it work and you lose the ACC postion of your igntion switch. Avoid that product completely

Why don't you tell us you really feel Matt. LOL. Do you still have it?

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Sorry you had such bad luck with that product but thanks for the heads up for the rest of us. Besides, I'd like the button to say: Push to Start anyway, if I can. I also want something that is relatively simple to wire up without a bunch of relays and hacking into the factory harness and possibly an upgraded version for those that have other accessories to control or need security.

[Jimmy Sean]

that thing sucks!!! I installed one in a camaro recently and was very pissed off with how it works. When you press the button, the starter engages right away and then reverts to the igniton on position. If you want the scematic on making one and the parts list you can build your own for over half the cost of what they are selling it for. IMO its not worth the hassle to hook it up not to mention you have to wire up a bunch of relays to make it work and you lose the ACC postion of your igntion switch. Avoid that product completely

Can I get copy of the schematic? I'm curious how it is done. I could see if you had to crank more than once you would have to run through all the cycles of the button. Push to start, release to the ignition on, push again too turn off, repeat.

[JohnC]

What's wrong with the Flaming River one??? Looks pretty cool.

John



http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR60001/10002/-1?inventoryMessage=in+7-10+days&jspStoreDir=JegsDirect&orderId=2506571&inventoryAvailable=N&catalogId=10002&quantity=1&orderItemId=6888864&langId=-1&catEntryId=970397&addCatEntryId=970397&storeId=10001&ddkey=OrderItemAdd

[James OLC]

that thing sucks!!!

Which one are you refering to?

[Jimmy Sean]

Which one are you refering to?

I thought he was refering to this one?


No trick remotes but effective.
http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/wiring_accessories.html

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I think mattyb was refering to one I posted a link to and not the Flaming River one.

[matty b]

yeah the watson one is horrible. I installed in a 68 camaro that I finished and is gone. Ill post the schematic later but the components used are a VW beetle (aircooled beetle) headlight relay and a regular bosch relay. The switch they use is a Bulgin Vandal push button switch used in custom desktop computers. They can be found for 20 dollars all over the internet. I was very upset with how they represented it to work and once I had it they said, "well you can add a second button for accesorie circuits". I said whats the point of that? If you have two switches you can acomplish the same thing for the cost of the switches. The circuit is a waste of money though and doesnt work correctly, I dont like that you have to start the car as soon as you get in it, especially if you want to power up the car to test things. The Flaming River setup appears to be the best way to go since it does in fact have a passive key and antennae so you dont have to do anything except get in the car and go.

[James OLC]

thanks for the clarification. I am trying to get more information regarding the Flaming River piece and will share if I can find anything.

[cpederslie]

Matty,
I'd like to get a copy of the schematic and any other details you can provide on the Watson's setup. I'd rather not cough up the $$$ that watson wants for it, it can't be that hard of a setup. Besides, this type of setup would be perfect in the bare bones basic 29 Roadster I'm building. No need for an ACC or anything else.

Thanks,
Chad

[matty b]

Ok I have not held the Flaming River kit in my hand so I cant tell you for sure but from the looks of it, it is a doorlock module out of a GM vehicle with passive key technology like a caddilac or c6 vette. These modules are pretty cool and not all that expensive. I got one for 104 dollars my cost from the dealership. You do need the antennaes and a fob that adds to the cost plus a schematic and the abilty to adapt it but it has the abilty to control the doorlocks and also controls the ignition switch. Programming it is handled directly through the modul and a main antennae which in the c6 is in the glove box. You stick it in there and preform a key on and off procedure to program the fob and your done. I dont sell Flaming River parts and I dont normally promote their products but considering that they have it available now and I have no intention of selling them anytime soon. I was suggesting it since it does what the original poster asked for as far as function is and there is no back engineering any OEM components. When I get to wiring my car Ill be sure to show off the way I did it along with alot of other prototype stuff that I have been developing at my company and am going to test in my personal chevelle. Till then thats all the info I can give as far as FR is concerned as well as any info on OEM stuff

[Stupidnewbie]

I'm doing something similar in my Firebird, but I'm also using an alarm/remote start system from Electric Life. This is my plan:

I will be shaving my door handles, so I have no real need for electric door locks. I suppose the keyfob could auto-pop the door when I approach, but that would happen every time I came close to my car. That would get annoying very quickly. So I plan to pop the doors via my remote. I am considering using the Ebay RFID system and placing the sensor inside my center console so that the keyfob will sit directly over it while driving. I will use the RFID to enable a push-button switch on the dash. This will prevent the RFID system from shutting off the car should the keyfob go out of range and will also allow the remote start to work regardless of the RFID.

I found the Bulgin switches for very cheap HERE. (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=375&zenid=696fe320ed68375bbe293d66f321f323)

My only problem now is trying to get one button to do everything. I would like the first push to go to "on," the second to start the car, and the third to shut it off. Any suggestions?

[Young Gun]

I know BMW uese that technology, pretty neat stuff...probly could source the stuff from a dealership...or a wrecked one

[matty b]

My only problem now is trying to get one button to do everything. I would like the first push to go to "on," the second to start the car, and the third to shut it off. Any suggestions?

I have a schematic that I attempted to put together that does just that but either I messed up assembling it or its no good. http://that.homepage.dk/PDF/PB_Start.pdf a guy on an electronics website made the schematic for me so you can play with it if you want. I think I messed up building since the schematic itself makes sense if you know it. It uses a decade counter and a flip flop to debounce the button. If you dont know anything about IC's dont even try to make heads and tails of it since I dont feel like explaining how it all works. If you do you probably could whip it together and try it out.

[MrQuick]

hey Matt, on that Watson unit....is the latching relay the primary or secondary initiator? Can you send me a picture of the schematic for it? thanks dude.

[matty b]

all the latching relay does is click over to ignition relay ones you release the button the first time. The starter relay is the other relay they include so it functions as so.. press and hold button and the starter engages release button and it click over to just the ignition relay. More or less you activate the latching relay as soon as you press the button but the contacts wont swap over until you take your finger off the button so I guess its the secondary actuator if that what you want to call it. Keep in mind that you have to add on an ignition relay capable of carrying the entire load of the vehicle through it. When I installed it I seperated the ignition and accesorie circuits on to two seperate relays so that I wouldnt have to put a constant duty solenoid in the car. If you dont do this then you will have to find a relay capable of AT LEAST 70 amps if you have alot of stuff powered off of the key. I circumvented alot of that by relaying a good portion of the circuits on the vehicle so I was more or less only having to carry the load of the dash and radio. I know that 99% of the guys on this site barely know how to solder correctly let alone design a complete vehicle electrical system that takes this into consideration and keeps the load off of these relays in order to keep the car safe. Ive considered putting it on the web and a few people PMd me about it and I really dont want to just because my name will be associated with that if anyone searches for it. Being that I am so opposed to how it functions, I have an issue justifying to myself just how helpful Im actually being by posting it. You truthfully would be better off having someone fabricate the circuit that I posted above. It would work like an OEM circuit in every way and it is solid state logic controlled so there are no moving parts in the unit to fail. I again want to say that the watsons setup is far from desireable and any of you guys wanting it for free will pay for it anyways when you find out that it doesnt work well and that you spent a grip on relays to make it function in the first place. Beleive me that Im not trying to keep this a secret just to be a **** but I dont think it would be right to tell someone how to build something that I know is poor in design just to appease you. Its on the same level as if I was to tell someone how to design a suspension system that I knew didnt function correctly at all and had horrible design flaws built into it or if I suggested to buy an engine part that I knew would cause you to lose horsepower just because it looked "cool". I have somewhat of a conscious to not let guys unwhittingly modify their cars for the worse it just isnt right regardless of how bad you want it.

[Fesler built]

Funny you had a problem with this, I use them all the time and love them, they work awesome just as stated......
You push once and get ignition you push and hold for a second it starts and goes back to ignition, you push again and it turns off. Seems pretty easy to me..... The relays are for the start system so you dont have to add any in there like all the other systems these guys are talking about up here. If anyone would like to know more about this PM me I sell them and they work perfect if put in correctly.


that thing sucks!!! I installed one in a camaro recently and was very pissed off with how it works. When you press the button, the starter engages right away and then reverts to the igniton on position. If you want the scematic on making one and the parts list you can build your own for over half the cost of what they are selling it for. IMO its not worth the hassle to hook it up not to mention you have to wire up a bunch of relays to make it work and you lose the ACC postion of your igntion switch. Avoid that product completely

[matty b]

um they dont work like that at all. Start engages as soon as you press the button from the off position, release the button and it goes to ignition only press again for off. Call watsons yourself if you think Im making this up. You do not press it once for ignition and a second time for the starter to engage. If it worked like that I would not be making an issue about it. If you can prove to the contrary Id love to see it on a little youtube video. Im not gaining anything by saying that its an inferior design and believe me when I say that I had a less than productive conversation with the people over there. If they worked so great Id throw em in every car I could. However, I think Id be doing my customers a diservice by installing one of these POS things in their car. They rank right up there with clear distributor caps and whistler tips. Word to the wise out there, if you want a push button ignition switch that functions like an OEM style you wont get it with the watson setup I dont care who says it. PS I dont know if youre implying that I dont know how to install one these things but if you are I challenge you to show me how it works as you state with the setup they use. All I do day in and day out is custom electrical systems on muscle cars and street rods so I think I have a bit of expierience in this area of automotive construction. Ill say it again, call Watsons directly and ask them how it works it is not how Mr. Fesler is representing them.

BTW their site backs me up on it

http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/wiring_accessories.html

Put your Ignition Switch and Starter all into one unit. This gorgeous chrome recessed switch is 3/4" diameter and has a blue LED ring to indicate when the ignition is "On". *****>>>>Push and hold the button while the starter turns over and release when the engine starts. The ignition stays "On". Push again to stop the engine<<<<*****. You've seen it on new, top-end luxury cars... now it can be on your
ride, too.

Mr Fesler if you are attempting to profit on misinforming potential customers then you have a problem. Its pretty unethical to out and out say that something functions in a completely different way than it really does especially when the manufacturer publishes the information on their own website that states the contrary to what you are saying. Im gonna let it go at that and Ill go ahead and post up the schematic tomorrow so at least you guys can save yourself a bit of cash than buying this garbage for retail price.

[fairlane347]

I think the Flamming River Kit is really nice, its more advanced than just a switch. I work for the company that came up with this new system. We showed it on the 32 Ford at SEMA 2007 and it was on "Two Guys Garage" tv show. This system is all brand new, yes I thought the price was a bit high, but there is not much out there like this. Our kit has NO keys at all, only a fob to start the car.

[matty b]

ok heres the drawing i made. The 4 pin part is the standard bosch relay and the other part is the latching relay. The little arrow looking thing is a diode and if you build it the stripe on the diode goes towards the latching relay. The lead that says ignition is a trigger lead to the igniton relay. The switch legs go on either sides of a normally open momentary switch. the start leg is a 12
gauge wire as is the battery leg. This is all im providing so please dont ask any questions about how to make it. Im doing this as a favor to the guys that are willing to spend 130 bucks on this. Youll probably be in it about 45 bucks for everything.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/IMG00077-1.jpg

[viper11]

am still looking for a passive ignition device and found this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Digital-Guard-Dawg-Keyless-Security-System-DGD-M1_W0QQitemZ310010028203QQihZ021QQcategoryZ35571QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638 Q2em118Q2el1247QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
it will probably work well and has a range of ten feet
jason

[matty b]

that looks bad ass!! I could think of quite a few different things I could use that for depending on how you wire it in. As it sits the standard relay is a keyless starter interupt however if you wire it in line with say the ignition circuit to the fusepanel, you can simply walkup to the car and it would turn the car on. You could wire it to wake up and allow door mounted buttons to unlock or lock the doors like a permanently mounted keyless entry system pretty much like a new corvette or infinity. For the price of just the relay at about 90 bucks and the abilty for multiple relays to be coded to a single fob, you could do many cool things with it. Im buying one of these to play around with, big ups to tracking this down :thumbsup:

[EE_Delphi]

HI ALL --

RE: RELAY IMMOBILIZER -- for example --

http://www.mastersentryseries.com/starter/installation.shtml

Anyone know how these work? Anyone have a smart way to do the pushbutton start for them?

Do they meet the new Canadian specs for immobilizer conversions of cars licensed from the US ?

They are available thru Amazon etc. for less than $100 US

[derekf]

That looks pretty cool. Details on how they work are on http://www.mastersentryseries.com/starter/product-overview.shtml

[matty b]

im working on the pushbutton start part of it at the moment. I found out that I screwed up building the circuit that I posted up a little bit up the page in a pdf. Between that portion and the wireless part you end up with a full functioning one button ignition switch for literally pennies on the dollar along with the abilty to also setup keyless entry without using a fob. Hell you could set up the relay to unlock your doors when you walk up and lock when you walk away. Totally brainless operation that doesnt require anything except for the fob in your pocket.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I would definately be interested in that, keep us posted.

[matty b]

just so happens I was going over the circuit I built and what I thought was a mess up on my part ended up being a crappy switch. Im going to hook up another switch at work tomorrow and if it works properly Ill let you guys know about how well it works, pretty cool stuff and raw parts costs bout 60 bucks but it does take some time to put it together, took me about 3 hours. Hell if it works good maybe I can have a pcb fabricator in town make some printed circuit boards and go from there as far as making a product of some sort.

[ZoomieFoosh]

While we are digging into this push-button start thing, I figure I'd see if anyone knew a solution for this. I want to use one of those Bulgin-type, vandal-resistant switches for my start button. The LED is a 3.3V, so I'd have to put a 470 ohm resister on it to run it with the 12V car system. The only problem is that the switches are rated at 50mA, 24V. I know I'll have to hook it up to a relay, but don't you need at least 200mA-ish to even use one?? Basically, does this mean I'll fry my switch if I try to use it how I want to?

[matty b]

no it works without a resistor at least it does used with the watson setup

[ZoomieFoosh]

They use a completely different switch than the ones I'm interested in.

[jlmccuan]

I set mine up using the Honda switch, an RFID alarm, central lock, and a few relays. The RFID unlocks the doors and powers up the Engine Start button as you approach. One press and release of the Start button powers up the accessories. Second press shuts them off. If you press and hold the Start button (I use a 4 second delay, it is easy to change) the starter engages. The second press and release kills the engine, or if I walk away, the engine shuts off and the door locks engage.

[Jimmy Sean]

I set mine up using the Honda switch, an RFID alarm, central lock, and a few relays. The RFID unlocks the doors and powers up the Engine Start button as you approach. One press and release of the Start button powers up the accessories. Second press shuts them off. If you press and hold the Start button (I use a 4 second delay, it is easy to change) the starter engages. The second press and release kills the engine, or if I walk away, the engine shuts off and the door locks engage.

Do you have a schematic and parts list that you can share with us?

[matty b]

I set mine up using the Honda switch, an RFID alarm, central lock, and a few relays. The RFID unlocks the doors and powers up the Engine Start button as you approach. One press and release of the Start button powers up the accessories. Second press shuts them off. If you press and hold the Start button (I use a 4 second delay, it is easy to change) the starter engages. The second press and release kills the engine, or if I walk away, the engine shuts off and the door locks engage.

what are you using to do the switching for the ignition switch? I havent come across a setup like you are describing but I would really like to know what you used.

[jlmccuan]

Everything is switched by the Honda Engine Start button via relays. The first pulse from the switch turns power on to the MSD, fuel pump, etc, as well as powering up the relay which supplies the accessory circuits (stereo and so on). The second pulse shuts everything back off. The only way the starter gets power is the RFID is present and the Engine Start switch is kept depressed for the time delay setting. The starter shuts off when the switch is released.

I'll get the schematic drawn and posted in the next few days and some pics of the components used.

[matty b]

so the button does it all by itself? I coulda sworn that the button was nothing more than a momentary switch... what year and make honda is this out of? I can look at any OEM schematic at the shop for cars made for the US market so if this is out of an S2000 or something like that lemme know.

[matty b]

ok i looked over the S2000 switch and it is a momentary switch so I dont see how you are just hooking up a relay for ignition and the starter to this button and getting the switch to do what youre saying they do. There isnt any logic in the switch so I dont see how you are getting it to work. And just so I dont sound like an ass Im under the assumption that you say that the honda switch turns on the ignition with one push and if you hold it for a few seconds it engages the starter. press it again and turns off the car. If youre saying that the S2000 switch is doing that I call BS

[viper11]

hi
what brand and model# is the rfid alarm
thanks jason

[jlmccuan]

The switch is just a momentary contact with a light. The relays provide the logic of the functions of on, off, and start. The RFID alarm sends power to the relays, unlocks the doors and turns on the interior lights when the fob is within range(about 30 feet). The central locking sends the lock/unlock signal to the door lock actuators.

Here is the schematic for using a momentary switch to provide a latched on or off condition. All I did was put a DEI28T time relay into it to provide a 12VDC signal to the starter solenoid after an adjustable delay.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/LatchedOnOffOutputfromMomentary-1.jpg

I got the Honda S2000 Engine Start Button from http://www.autopartspeople.com/ for $39.78
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/001-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/002-1.jpg

I just used a cheap Ebay RFID alarm.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/rfid-1.jpg

I think it was $75

I bought the relays, Bosch 30/40 Amp SPDT for less than $2 each with sockets.

The DEI relay was well under $25 for 2

The Central Lock was from Autotoys.com

[jlmccuan]

To add to the above post, I did it in modules individually. I started with the relay logic and got that working. ( I laid it all out on my pool table ) Once I had the relays set up to turn the 12VDC output on and off with sequential pushes of the Start button, I laid out the RFID and got it set up so that it sent the lock and unlock pulses. Then I used the alarm leads that power up the park lights when the system is disarmed to power up the start logic relays. I added a few other functions (such as a solenoid valve on my Accusump to preoil the engine before starting) and put everything in project cases so they are easier to troubleshoot once installed, then transferred everything from the pool table to the car.

[matty b]

ok that makes alot more sense dude. Thanks for posting it up that is quite easy to do. Good job I think we have a winner

[perry mitchell]

ok i looked over the S2000 switch and it is a momentary switch so I dont see how you are just hooking up a relay for ignition and the starter to this button and getting the switch to do what youre saying they do. There isnt any logic in the switch so I dont see how you are getting it to work. And just so I dont sound like an ass Im under the assumption that you say that the honda switch turns on the ignition with one push and if you hold it for a few seconds it engages the starter. press it again and turns off the car. If youre saying that the S2000 switch is doing that I call BS

So next time, before you call BS, why don't you give the guy a chance to explain. He said he was going to post a schematic but the way you jumped on him, I'm surprised he responded at all. I don't think I would have.

[MrQuick]

The switch is just a momentary contact with a light. The relays provide the logic of the functions of on, off, and start. The RFID alarm sends power to the relays, unlocks the doors and turns on the interior lights when the fob is within range(about 30 feet). The central locking sends the lock/unlock signal to the door lock actuators.

Here is the schematic for using a momentary switch to provide a latched on or off condition. All I did was put a DEI28T time relay into it to provide a 12VDC signal to the starter solenoid after an adjustable delay.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/LatchedOnOffOutputfromMomentary-1.jpg

I got the Honda S2000 Engine Start Button from http://www.autopartspeople.com/ for $39.78


The DEI relay was well under $25 for 2

The Central Lock was from Autotoys.com

Thanks for the info JLM, but just to clairify, whic .h relay pictured is the DEI relay? #1 #2 #3 #4

Nice work

[jlmccuan]

That pic doesn't have the DEI relay in it. While the circuit works fine as it is, the light in the Engine Start switch stays lit all the time. I am redoing it so that the light goes off when the alarm is active. I'll have to set it up to control the start solenoid by a positive rather than negative pulse. It works fine as it is, but I'd really like to nail it 100%. Should be able to post the complete schematic this weekend. Functionally, the only difference will be that when the car is both turned off and locked, the Start button light will go out.

BTW, no offense taken. I can't count the number of guys on the 'net saying they have this working, but they all have a key you turn or another switch to flip to make it work.

My goal is to end up with a small disc on the back of my watch to ID me to the car and enable the Engine Start button. All I have to do is wear the watch, hit the button to start and get out and walk away to shut it down and lock it up. It's close now, I just need that light to go out.

[matty b]

So next time, before you call BS, why don't you give the guy a chance to explain. He said he was going to post a schematic but the way you jumped on him, I'm surprised he responded at all. I don't think I would have.

Look at the last sentence, it starts with the word IF, there are tons of guys that like he said just use the button as a starter button and thats it. Im on alot of electronics forums and maybe 1% of them are in the same league as this. As soon as he posted what he did I also congratualted him on a cheap simple setup. You wouldnt believe how many guys will say that they did something like that and never come back to even show the setup functioning let alone how its made. So although it may come off a bit harsh I didnt go all the way by saying it was BS just that it would be BS if he didnt back up the claim.

jlmccuan- suprisingly the company that makes the cheapy alarm you bought actually makes an RFID push button start kit as well and Im talking with them on how to obtain it or who their supplier is in the US so everyone may not have to go through the trouble of modifying stuff if this can be bought ready to go. Either way good job. Also I gave it some though and figured that you could get a latching relay for the ignition circuit that is pulsed by the alarm on one channel and setup the starter so that when you hold the button for a second a second channel is activated. Some alarms allow for this such as a quick tap unlocks the doors while holding the button for 2 seconds unlocks the trunk. This could be modified for the igniton as well so that the latching relay is controlled by the door unlock and the standard relay is controlled by the trunk release. Only modifications necessary would be to open the alarm box and find the transistior that is trigger by the fob and hard wire off it for a switch. Other way would be to open the fob and hook a switch to the fob button and wire in a voltage drop to the battery in the fob so it is powered by vehicle volatge and not just the little battery in the fob. Im going to go by the alarm/stereo shop today and get a cheap 3 channel alarm and play around with it and see if I can get it to work for under 40 bucks.

[tellyv]

I'm very interested in this, I only want to use it for ignition and accessories, any easy ways just for that?

[matty b]

what exactly do you want it to do? turn the car on when you walk up to it and just hit a button to start the car? if so thats really easy, lemme know if thats what you want and Ill draw you a schematic

[tellyv]

what exactly do you want it to do? turn the car on when you walk up to it and just hit a button to start the car? if so thats really easy, lemme know if thats what you want and Ill draw you a schematic

yes thats exactly what I want.

[matty b]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/rfidsetup-1.jpg



This is based off of Chevy Color Code but as long as you can identify the different wires from your original ignition switch this is how to set it up. Remeber that this will turn the car on when you walk up to it so there is no way to turn it off with out walking away from the car. This could be potentially hazardous if something happens and you need to turn the car off. If you want, you can put an SPST switch on the ground coming from the RFID relay that you normally keep on but it can be switched off in the event that you need to kill the car. It can be a small microswitch since it wont be carrying any heavy current through it. Basic function of this setup is as follws, The RFID relay is a switch that triggers the POWER RELAY and the START RELAY. The POWER RELAY powers up the IGNITON and ACCESSORY circuits only. The START RELAY handles the STARTER and the ground trigger is handled by a momentary switch of your choice. This can be an S2000 start button, Z8 button ect. This does not have provisions to light up the button however it could be setup if you splice off of the IGN or ACC wires and hook it to the light. This will keep the light lit when the car is turned on and could indicate that those circuits are hot. With a latching relay you could hook it up so that the light is on until the STARTER is engaged and then it turns off after you pressed the button. This is expensive though and wont keep the STARTER from being engaged a second time so its purely esthetic. This should handle what you are asking for though and is pretty simple in its operation. Hope that helps

PS the 20 amp fuse for the starter is just a recommendation, based off of how much current the starter solenoid draws it may need to be bigger but as it is, it is fused at the same size that most cars are for the starter and it should work fine.

[matty b]

BTW I got off the phone that handles our alarm and stereo installs and he told me that he has a "brain" as he calls it that can in fact be programmed to do what we need with no need for special latching relays or anything since it is programmable to do it out of the box. Im getting one on moday during lunch and Ill play around with it to see if I cant get something working by dinner time. Stay tuned and Ill get some pics of it

[viper11]

hey
matty

do you know what brand/model the alarm is???
the only ebay rfid alarm I found is $32.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170213383424&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007
jason

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Mattyb, I'm eargerly watching your posts as finally someone has made progress in providing us with a "Push to Start" feature that's safe & secure at minimal $$. Keep it coming.:hail:
I personally know only a little about electrical systems but I so want to do this!

[jlmccuan]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RFID-RADIO-FREQUENCY-IDENTIFY-CAR-SECURITY-ALARM-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ120251713426QQihZ002QQcategoryZ337 21QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is the one I used, but it does require some other additions to meet what I wanted.

[matty b]

yeah my way is gonna use a normal alarm that should be in the $50 range and Im gonna use one of those masterlock rfid relay to handle the security. If all goes according to plan I should only have 3 relays; 2 normal bosch relays and the RFID relay. Also I can also use the RFID relay to turn on a doorlock module that I can use to hook to small waterproof buttons by the door handles to unlock the doors yet be dead if you dont have the fob. Its a total aftermarket version of a new corvette or infinity for less than $200. Im pretty excited myself and have to hand it to everyone that has chimed in with different links to the parts necessary.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

So how hard would it be to install power door locks to benefit from the alarm feature. Maybe use a later model setup to actuate since my 72 never had that accessory?

[jlmccuan]

I had to add central locks and actuators. I think it was $30. Got the last details working last night. Ignition and accessories have no power until RFID is present. Doors lock and alarm is armed when RFID is removed or button on fob is pressed. I did elect to use the shock sensing and starter interrupt. I'll try to summarize the functions below.

With RFID not in range or manually armed.

Doors lock.
Fuel door release disabled
Trunk release disabled
Push to start button disabled
Accessory circuits disabled
Alarm enabled, triggered by shock, tilt, opening of door, etc.

When RFID comes into range

Doors unlock
Fuel door release enabled
Trunk release enabled
Courtesy lights come on for 3 minutes
Push to Start button enabled for 3 minutes
Press and release of Push to Start turns on accessory circuits
Second press and release of Push to Start turns off accessory circuits
Press and hold (4 seconds) of Push to Start engages starter until button is released
Subsequent press of Push to Start kills engine and shuts off accessories

I have simplified this a little because I have some other logic in the start circuit that most people won't want to use. For instance, the starter doesn't engage until the engine oil pressure is over 30psi. After a 3 second delay in the press and hold of the Push to Start, a solenoid valve releases oil stored in an accumulator, preoiling the engine. The transmission must be in Park or Neutral and the brake must be depressed for the starter to engage, as well.

The point of all this is that it is possible to to do everything with an RFID signal and one momentary contact switch.

[matty b]

would you mind showing how you got the delay relay integrated into the setup? Im trying to get my head around how it actually functions and a quick diagram would help me figure out exactly what you did

[jlmccuan]

I just ran a delay relay parallel off the momentary switch. Since you need the power to the ignition while cranking the starter, it's just a matter of delaying the starter so you can switch the ignition and accessories on or off without the starter engaging when you don't want it to. For example, without the delay, the push to start button would engage the starter when you pushed the button to kill the engine.

[matty b]

forgive me if this is obvious but what keeps the ignition from turning off when you press the button for the starter the second time?

[jlmccuan]

Press and hold to to turn on the ignition and engage the starter. When the switch is released the starter stops and the ignition remains on until the switch is pressed and released again.

The main function of the switch is to provide a negative pulse to latch and unlatch the ignition/accessory circuits. Secondary use is provided by holding the switch until the delay relay times out and provides power to start relay.

So, the RFID provides access to the interior of the vehicle through the central lock system and power to the Engine Start button which cycles the power on and off to the ignition and accessory circuits with sequential activations of the momentary contact and also power to the starter relay by pressing the switch for more than 4 seconds.

[matty b]

I got that part but when you press and hold the button for start it applies a negative trigger to the ignition latching relay which I would think would turn off the latch and kill the ignition. Is the start relay setup in such a way that it keeps the ignition latched on? Thats what Im struggling to follow. How are you blocking the second pulse back to the latch when holding it for start?

[jlmccuan]

Maybe we're losing the translation in the operation. The first time you push the button, you hold it and after the delay, the starter engages. There is no second pulse unless you release and push a second time which would turn off the ignition. Push and hold to turn on and start, push again kills. Sorry I'm making this so hard, it's really not that hard.

[matty b]

ohh I get it now ok I was confused about how you had it setup. Your setup is kinda like the watsons setup although yours is better cause it doesnt necessarily engage the starter as soon as you press it. My setup will require two presses of the button one for igniton on and a second for the starter. This whole time I thought thats how yours was working but I guess I was mistaken

[jerome]

so with his, you have ignition as soon as you are within range of the car you have ignition, and its not possible to sit in the car with it completely off without having some sort of manual master cutoff switch.

[viper11]

just thinking out loud
but:
if you live in a smaller house/townhouse or at bodyshop etc, theres a chance that your keyfob might always be in range (30ft) of your car causing the ignition to always stay on,
I have a separate airplane style ignition switch
jason

[jlmccuan]

If you're talking about mine, there is no ignition power until the RFID supplies power to the Engine Start button AND you push the button AND you keep the button pressed until the delay passes and the oil pressure comes up. If you just want to sit and listen to the radio, get in the unlocked car, press and release the Start button once. To kill the accessories, push and release the button again, get out and walk away with the RFID chip and the car locks up and arms the alarm. This is way simpler than you guys are making it.

[jlmccuan]

With the power and start logic working I'm more concerned at this point with the security portion of the equation. Obviously, if someone clones my RFID, the car is gone. Short of that, what would a theif try and what can be done to counter it?

[jlmccuan]

As to the question of not getting far enough to arm the system when the car is at home, there is a manual arm/disarm button on the RFID chip.

[matty b]

some of them also have an antennae that can be shortened up to adjust the range that a fob works. As far as cloning the RFID, I highly doubt that any thief with the capabilty is going to go after a classic car when they could steal a $50k+ luxury vehicle. Also remember that its still just another alarm and if they want it they are gonna find a way to get around the security and take it. Ive seen alot of newer cars actually stolen by guys with a set of wheel dollies so they can just break in at a secure building. Youre setup is pretty straight forward though and would be fairly easy for any guy to set up on his own. My setup will require modifications to the fob ans such so it would be a bit more complicated

[jlmccuan]

Do sirens actually work? I have one installed and hooked to the prox alarm, vibration sensor as well as any sudden amp flow from clipping a wire. But I'm thinking if a guy is bold enough to steal a car, wouldn't he be willing to drag it up on a rollback, siren blaring, and just drive off with it? Short of setting up a "scorched earth" trigger, which I would consider, what else can you do?

[matty b]

fire and explosives lol. I dunno, you can only do so much to deter and prevent the theft of your car. Short of chaining it to the wall and have it surrounding by vicious pit bulls there just isnt anything you can do to stop it if they really want it. And like I said before if they really want it they will take it horns and all. Think of it this way, they jack the car up on tire skates and roll it down the street, open the hood and remove the battery cable. Now the car is making no noise and they can just put it on a tow dolly or a trailer and off they go. Back at their lair they can do a vin swap, chop it up for parts ect. So do the best you can and let it be. Youre one step ahaead cause they cant just bust the ignition and go. Hell they cant even pull the igniton switch connector off and jumper it. That reminds me of a story, my buddy left his keys in the house and I was in the back doing some electrical work so I had some wire. I bet him that I could have his car running before he could get his keys and come back outside. All I had to do was pull the connector off the switch and jumper the ignition to bat and tap the starter to start it up, took me all but 30 secs. Granted I could steal just about anything with my electrical knowledge but it isnt that hard on our early cars. Sucks the world is like that but it is and there isnt much you can do about it.

[matty b]

ok well disappointing news for my project. The alarm guy was not on the same page as me and after going over to his shop and spending an hour looking at every conceivable module including keyless entrys, alarms and door popper modules I came up empty handed. He gave me a 10 year old Prestige alarm that uses a single button for lock and unlock however I cant make it toggle between ignition and off without engaging the starter. What I mean is that whenever the car is turned on it would be necessary to at very least blip the starter before I could turn the car off. This is not acceptable for me so I will keep working on something. Sadly, its looking like I may just have to pony up the cash for the flaming river setup although I dont want to unless its a last resort. Its a great product but it just costs so damn much money that it kills me that I cant make a unit that does it myself. I think its more of an ego thing than anything else but Im getting to the point that its gonna be more time than its worth to do this. So at this point it sounds like jlmccuan's setup is gonna be the cheapest, easiest way to go about doing it. I looked around and found that the relay setup could be done for as little as 25 bucks total. Thats for the DEI 528t timer, a latch and two relays. Add the cost of the button and the RFID relay and youd be in it for about $120-$150. Ill continue to look for a solution be it a custom circuit or using exsisting parts and adapting them but at this point I think that I am stuck right now. Ill probably need an electronic engineer to help me make something that works properly SO if you are an EE drop me a line and we can talk.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

So, let me throw this out there.
What happens to the original ignition switch? Can that be hacked to start (steal) your car or do we just pretend it's not there because it no longer works the starter?
I like the setup that jlmccuan has produced (love to see a kit for that someday) but just curious about the stock ignition switch.

[monza]

So, let me throw this out there.
What happens to the original ignition switch? Can that be hacked to start (steal) your car or do we just pretend it's not there because it no longer works the starter?
I like the setup that jlmccuan has produced (love to see a kit for that someday) but just curious about the stock ignition switch.

You replace it with the 'button.'

I'm just waiting for you guys to finish all this planning so you can make me one and ship it .... it's getting close!

[DarkoNova]

You replace it with the 'button.'

I'm just waiting for you guys to finish all this planning so you can make me one and ship it .... it's getting close!

lol, me too.

And honestly, I'd rather get a billet aluminum "block off plate" and put the push button somewhere else.

Matt

[jlmccuan]

The ignition switch left the right size hole in the right spot in the dash, so I replaced the key switch with the push to start.

matty, the addition of the delay is what allows me to avoid blipping the starter when killing the ignition. Plus, it allows me to just turn on and off the accessories without starting the engine. Another alternative is to run the start signal in a series through the brake switch and neutral switch. Lots of ways to do it. Keep plugging away, you'll get it.

[matty b]

well Im back to talking with some electronics guys making a custom circuit. If I can get past one stumbling block of making the starter momentary and not requiring a press on and a press off then I will be able to have something that works exactly like the Flaming River setup that allows you to have ACC IGN and START so it will work exactly like a normal switch and not losing your ACC circuits. I let you guys know by the end of the week if it will work. If I can do it then I will have circuit boards printed and I can assemble them for guys that just want something ready to go. Otherwise Id be willing to provide the parts list and a CAD file of the circuit board and you can go at it alone. I refuse to give up on this project and need to finish it or myself(its that ego thing again). Stay posted

[Tom 72RS/SS]

The ignition on my 72 is on the column, no hiding it unless you replace the entire column with one from a 68 or older that had the ignition on the dash, right?

[monza]

The ignition on my 72 is on the column, no hiding it unless you replace the entire column with one from a 68 or older that had the ignition on the dash, right?

Sorry my bad, I was thinking dash mount for sure. You need a fancy new steering column! Other then that I'm sure you could rig a button on the column or a cover plate and go with a dash mount.

[sacarguy]

ok just talking out loud here

from what i see here if you already have the ignition on then press and hold for two seconds for the starter to fire the latched circuit will deenergize and you lose ignition when u release the button as the only weekenss to that design.

ok would it be ok include another timed relay to that if the button is held long enough to engage the starter it relatches the latched circuit

ie if you push the button once it turns on or off if its less then 2 seconds but if its pushed for more then two seconds at any time it will also reenergize the starter circuit and the latching circuit

that way if the ignition is already on from the first short pulse and you press the starter and hold it more then two seconds the second timed relay relatches the latched circuit as well and you dont just turn the latched circuit off when you lift the button and the only way the latched circuit turns off is a short less then two seconds pulse of the button

[matty b]

ok guys awesome news.. I have a PCB laid out and I will etch a few a build them to test. If all goes according to plan I should have at least 4 boards. They will function as follows. Press once=ACC, Press twice=ACC and IGN, Press and hold after first two steps and STARTER engages, Release button and it goes back to IGN and ACC. Press fourth time=turn off car. I have the abilty to also make an led blink in differnt patterns based on its current position or three different leds for each position. As a bonus its only like 3.5"x3" so its really compact. Im gonna make the boards tomorrow and test them thursday so hopefully I have some good news. This will be able to work with a standard alarm, an rfid alarm or all by itself. Any starter button can be used as well and if it has a light in it, that can be used as the status light. If they turn out good Ill package them up as a kit with all the wiring and relays ready to go so all you gotta do is hook up to the igniton switch wiring. I also might setup a connector for chevys so that you can depin the ignition switch connector and plug the wires into a different housing and thats it. That would be the most brainless way to do it and would take maybe 15 minutes to install. I am really really excited about this and I hope some of you guys are interested in this as a cheaper alternative to the unit made by flaming river. Stay tuned

[blissbsm]

I would be interested in that.

[Mike Holleman]

Matty, I'm very interested. I've been planning on this type of start system for months for my current build. A 65 El Camino on a Schwartz Chassis with an LS2/T56. I will not have door locks involved and my setup will be fairly simple. I have already pulled together most of the parts. Needless to say I've been following this post from the beginning.
How difficult would it be to have a redundent backup, so if the RFID fails, you can still fire the engine?

thanks for your efforts.
Mike Holleman

[matty b]

ok just talking out loud here

from what i see here if you already have the ignition on then press and hold for two seconds for the starter to fire the latched circuit will deenergize and you lose ignition when u release the button as the only weekenss to that design.

ok would it be ok include another timed relay to that if the button is held long enough to engage the starter it relatches the latched circuit

ie if you push the button once it turns on or off if its less then 2 seconds but if its pushed for more then two seconds at any time it will also reenergize the starter circuit and the latching circuit

that way if the ignition is already on from the first short pulse and you press the starter and hold it more then two seconds the second timed relay relatches the latched circuit as well and you dont just turn the latched circuit off when you lift the button and the only way the latched circuit turns off is a short less then two seconds pulse of the button

the problem with that is that the second latch wont be able to turn off with out holding the starter on again. Remember that since it wouldnt be triggered until the starter engages, the starter would engage right along with the second pulse to turn of that latch. There is no way to properly seperate them using analog logic. It is necessary to use digital parts in order to step through the sequence correctly.

[matty b]

Matty, I'm very interested. I've been planning on this type of start system for months for my current build. A 65 El Camino on a Schwartz Chassis with an LS2/T56. I will not have door locks involved and my setup will be fairly simple. I have already pulled together most of the parts. Needless to say I've been following this post from the beginning.
How difficult would it be to have a redundent backup, so if the RFID fails, you can still fire the engine?

thanks for your efforts.
Mike Holleman

well the plan would be to use the starter interupt built in to the security system as the way to kill power to the ignition switch. A standard arlarm woud have the starter leg open when armed so there is no continuity through it. USing that circuit to block power to the ignition switch would provide security. The RFID alarm would operate the same way although instead of pressing a disarm button you just walk up to the car. In order to bypass it you would need to by pass the starter interupt. This could be done with an on off switch spliced in between the in and out wires and left off when you want the alarm to do the security but could be bypassed by turning the switch on. If you did that I would hide the switch in a very concealed location like the trunk or engine compartement. Theives look for hidden switches and believe me they will look under the dash or under the seat. Ive done some very creative work inorder to hide the kill switch. Best one was to install a push button in place of the glovebox switch. When open it looked just like the normal switch but if you pressed it the car would die. :smoke: thats all you can do to bypass it in the even of a failure. Thing is that most alarms dont fail without being hooked up wrong or you lose the fob (which is very common).

[jjump59]

I'm real interested in a system that will work just like the new vettes. walk up and the doors unlock, push the button and it starts push it again and it shuts off, walk away and the doors lock. if i understand you correctly that's exactly what your planning and i'm all over it! just let me know when it's ready to ship! i've been watching the thread since it started and it's hard for me to understand the how and whys (electric IQ of 5) but you sound like you've got it figured out. Thanks, J.J

[matty b]

I should have something that does just that fairly soon, looks like it should be pretty popular too.

[jlmccuan]

A good way to hide a switch is to place it under the carpet behind the brake pedal. If you want momentary use an old Chevy floor mounted starter switch. For push on/push off a regular floor dimmer switch.

[DarkoNova]

Matty, I'm interested in one of your kits. I'd love to have an RFID setup where walking up to the car unlocks it and turns the dome light on, and walking away locks the doors.

Matt

[matty b]

its not a kit yet, I have to make a test a few to make sure this is something that isnt gonna leave you stranded if you know what I mean. At the moment I have a breadboarded version and a PCB layout. In the coming days Ill have info and then figure out what it will take to make this available.

[LSX69]

Someone Posted This Link In Lateral-g And I Have Been Following It Since. So My First Post Over Here Is To Say Im In!! When You Have A Kit Made Let Me Know!

[LSX69]

Oops, I Mean Second Post. :)

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Needless to say, alot of us are watching and waiting. Take as long as you need to get it right and I'll be one of the first to jump on it.
Now I have to look into adding power locks to take advantage of all the features...ahh what fun!

[Fuelie Nova]

Man I just found this thread. I have a chance to pickup a push button setup out of an 08 Toyota Camary next week. I want to try and disect it to see if I can figure it out. I like there switch, it says "press to start"
There thought is... if you are in the proximity with the fob, press the button (momentary) and it is on ACC. Press again and it turns off. If you want to start the engine, press the brake pedal and be in range and the engine goes to the Start pos for a specified time then automatically goes to the Run pos. It only takes a momentary push and then latches in for start.

I might try and work on a circuit to simulate the above and then use an output off my XFI to tell it when it is running which would drop it back to the run position.
Tg

[matty b]

well got 2 boards made, gotta drill em and assemble them tomorrow then get to test it out. Things are definitely moving along nicely

[matty b]

Man I just found this thread. I have a chance to pickup a push button setup out of an 08 Toyota Camary next week. I want to try and disect it to see if I can figure it out. I like there switch, it says "press to start"
There thought is... if you are in the proximity with the fob, press the button (momentary) and it is on ACC. Press again and it turns off. If you want to start the engine, press the brake pedal and be in range and the engine goes to the Start pos for a specified time then automatically goes to the Run pos. It only takes a momentary push and then latches in for start.

I might try and work on a circuit to simulate the above and then use an output off my XFI to tell it when it is running which would drop it back to the run position.
Tg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/TOYOTASTYLE-1.jpg

very easy like that, just gotta remember that the brake cannot be pressed when turning the car off or the starter will engage and nothing else will happen. The latching relay is not shown but the lead that goes to the S teminal on it is marked as LATCH TRIGGER. The relays shown are normal 5 pin bosch relays. Im tired and Im not sure if the push button goes to the horizontal terminal or the vertical terminal at the bottom opposite it. If you make this and it doesnt work switch the two wires and it should work fine. An rpm trigger isnt really necessary and it would just complicate things. If you dont wanna turn the car off without pressing the brake set the e brake instead or just put it in park. If you want to be able to press the brake when you turn the car off you are asking for a quite a bit more complicated setup and at that point youd be better of with the module Im building.

[matty b]

UPDATE Ok I got the first board put together and it works perfectly. Im gonna make probably 5 to start. This is just the keyless ignition switch none of the rfid stuff with it. If you want that I can set that up as well but it will be a bit more. If you are interested in one PM me and we can talk about the details.

[monza]

PM sent.

[DarkoNova]

PM sent.

What he said.

Matt

[matty b]

thanks you guys for grabbing these up, Im swamped by the interest I didnt expect it to be quite like this

[ZoomieFoosh]

I also emailed the guys over at Digital Guard Dawg and this is what they said about their product. I guess it doesn't do all the door locking/unlocking and it skips out on the step of one push powering up the acc then the next starting the car.

We have a great little product that might just do the trick. It's our DGD-ADS. "Keyless" Push Button Start system. It provides push button start operation for vehicles that is securely controlled by one of our RFID "Dawg Tags" It's quite simple to install and works great. When you approach to within 10 feet of the vehicle the system passively reads the Dawg Tag code,(one in 6 billion), No buttons to push, just walk up. If a valid Tag is seen, the systems push button will allow the vehicle to be started. The starter cranks upon full depress of the button and runs when released. The button also has a LED ring on the outer edge that lights up while the vehicle is running. Another push and the engine stops. There's a 20 sec. safety feature so the engine can always quickly be restarted if you were to stall. The system automatically arms when you walk out of range, no one can start your vehicle without the Dawg tag present. System has manual and automatic operating modes. I've included a link the product page on our site: http://www.digitalguarddog.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DGD&Product_Code=DGD-ADS&Category_Code=a20000

[viper11]

also emailed the guys over at Digital Guard Dawg and this is what they said about their product. I guess it doesn't do all the door locking/unlocking and it skips out on the step of one push powering up the acc then the next starting the car.
this can probanly be done easily with a relay triggered by the dawg sensor output
try this alarm instead, http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-K9-SOMBRA-AUTOMATIC-KEYLESS-ENTRY-CAR-ALARM-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ170217258632QQihZ007QQcategoryZ602 02QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem it is only $33 and does everthing but the 'acc' feature (unlocks doors, enables /disables starter) the ignition/acc circuit can be handled with extra relays
jason

[matty b]

The rfid is the easy part coming up with a way to make one button act like a three-way switch is entirely different. The digital gaurd dawg setup is for motorcycles that has an ignition button and a start button and it bypasses the key cylinder that normal turns the bike on. It wont do the one button start though and thats what everyone is looking to do. If you want simple I drew out a diagram up the page that will do an ignition on and start and would be very easy to do. My module on the other hand works exactly like an ignition switch would with an acc, ign and start mode with 1 switch and works independently of all other switches in the car. Also my box is the same price as that digital gaurd dog unit approximately and has rfid and all the wiring setup to drop into a car very simple clean and easy to do for a diy'er. That rfid alarm would work with my setup also as will any alarm. The module switched on by through the starter kill circuit so instead of just disabling the starter it disables the whole ignition switch.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Question: If I install an aftermarket power door lock kit in my 72, will the RFID function in "your kit" work along with the push to start, etc.?

[DarkoNova]

Question: If I install an aftermarket power door lock kit in my 72, will the RFID function in "your kit" work along with the push to start, etc.?

Good question. I'm planning on buying a power window and doorlock kit from Frank, but I already bought the kit from Matt. Maybe I should have asked that before ordering. :razz:

Matt

[matty b]

Ok heres how the rfid portion works with the keyless ignition module of mine. When the rfid sensor is near the car the rfid relay or rfid alarm (depending if you wanted it to unlock the doors or not) disarms and allows the ignition switch to work. I utilize the starter interlock built in to the alarm to switch power on or off to the ignition switch module. It very simple in its function but works very well. more or less when the alarm is armed it will open up the circuit going through the interlock, it could be the starter wire or in this case +12 to the module. Any door lock module will work with it though regardless if you got it with rfid or not.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

OK, that's good news. A1 Electric has a slick keyless power door lock kit for my 72 along with an alarm system at a very reasonable price. http://www.a1electric.com/catalog/cat_door.htm any thoughts on these?
Now I'll just wait for you to perfect your push to start setup and be good to go.

[matty b]

what exactly needs to be perfected? Im curious you say that since it works awesome. I suppose Ill let people that already bought one speak for me when they install them. Its universal, isnt restricted to a certain type of switch other than it needs to be momentary and its simple in its design. Also you only need to hook up six wires, +12 and ground and then splice into your ignition switch wiring for battery, ignition, accessory and start. Everything else is prebuilt and ready to be installed plus everything is hooked up with connectors so it more or less plugs in. Hell, if you have a GM car, you dont even need to splice the ignition switch wiring because I have it setup so that all you need to do is depin the wires out of the connector and snap them into a connector housing I supply. Then you plug it into the relay harness connector and you are done. I do custom electrical work on vehicles everyday and I went to great pains to make sure that this requires as little work on the installers part as neccessary. This assures two things; that the installer can do the job quickly and it reduces the chance for errors on the installers part. Truthfully it is harder to install a stereo headunit than this. I would definitely like you to explain yourself though as I dont know whether to take that as a sarcastic statement or if you dont trust that it will work properly. I definitely dont want to come off as being rude though, if you meant that youll grab one once it is proven then I can definitely understand that. It can be a bit hard to plunk down cash on a part that youve never seen work from a person that you dont know. Thats fine and respectable and I would never hold that against someone, however I dont know how Ill be able to perfect this anymore as it does what it does and I dont know if it really needs any improvement save for the possibilty of using SMD construction and shrinking the module to over half its current size. At this moment though there is no reason to go to surface mount construction being that the module is only 3.5 by 4 inches in size. Forgive me if I misunderstood what you meant I just dont know how to take that.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Well, I guess I used the wrong term and certainly didn't want to imply that your setup was flawed. I remember reading that you were putting together serveral units to insure they performed correctly (which we appreciate, by the way) and I will definetly get in line to buy one when available.
Sorry for the confusion, I am in no way doubting your abilities and hope you accept my appoligies for implying otherwise. I know you have invested a lot of time & money to create a product that's of high quality, easy to install and works effectively so the rest of us can enjoy some high-tech goodies without breaking the bank or worse, butchering our cars. It's people like you that keep this hobby moving forward and I for one would like to say thank you.

[matty b]

oh ok I understand. Yeah they are available now so if you want one they are being built to order. Just pm me if youd like to get one. BTW I figured I misunderstood what you meant, there havent been to many posts critisizing anything being discussed in this thread so I thought it was odd that would begin now. So sorry I took it that way and no hard feelings.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

It's all good, PM sent.

[alittle1]

Jim,

Have you worked out a finalized plan of your design and the functions yet? And, if you do, will you be putting the updated schematic here. Thanks again Jim and Matty for a most enjoyable thread.

[jlmccuan]

The system has been running laid out on my pool table with the alarm,door lock actuators, fule pump enable,accessory power, push and hold to start, push to shut off, and RFID entry and power up. I have been burning it in running it 24 hours a day for 2 weeks. No problems, so looks like I'm good to do the install. I'll post up the as built after its in and working.

[perry mitchell]

Hey Matt, been trying to send you a PM but you need to empty your box. Perry

[Mike Holleman]

Like Perry said, please empty your box.
Mike

[Fesler built]

um they dont work like that at all. Start engages as soon as you press the button from the off position, release the button and it goes to ignition only press again for off. Call watsons yourself if you think Im making this up. You do not press it once for ignition and a second time for the starter to engage. If it worked like that I would not be making an issue about it. If you can prove to the contrary Id love to see it on a little youtube video. Im not gaining anything by saying that its an inferior design and believe me when I say that I had a less than productive conversation with the people over there. If they worked so great Id throw em in every car I could. However, I think Id be doing my customers a diservice by installing one of these POS things in their car. They rank right up there with clear distributor caps and whistler tips. Word to the wise out there, if you want a push button ignition switch that functions like an OEM style you wont get it with the watson setup I dont care who says it. PS I dont know if youre implying that I dont know how to install one these things but if you are I challenge you to show me how it works as you state with the setup they use. All I do day in and day out is custom electrical systems on muscle cars and street rods so I think I have a bit of expierience in this area of automotive construction. Ill say it again, call Watsons directly and ask them how it works it is not how Mr. Fesler is representing them.

BTW their site backs me up on it

http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/wiring_accessories.html

Put your Ignition Switch and Starter all into one unit. This gorgeous chrome recessed switch is 3/4" diameter and has a blue LED ring to indicate when the ignition is "On". *****>>>>Push and hold the button while the starter turns over and release when the engine starts. The ignition stays "On". Push again to stop the engine<<<<*****. You've seen it on new, top-end luxury cars... now it can be on your
ride, too.

Mr Fesler if you are attempting to profit on misinforming potential customers then you have a problem. Its pretty unethical to out and out say that something functions in a completely different way than it really does especially when the manufacturer publishes the information on their own website that states the contrary to what you are saying. Im gonna let it go at that and Ill go ahead and post up the schematic tomorrow so at least you guys can save yourself a bit of cash than buying this garbage for retail price.

OK I have two that we have just installed and here is how they work for me out of the box, so if you guys are getting something different not sure why.

You push once quick let go it goes to ignition and the dash lights up and stays that way so you can have radio on no start, you push again for off and push again and hold and it starts and runs and the dash stays lit, you push again and everything shuts off. I will have my blazer at Columbus if anyone on the site would like to come see how it works and how simple it is. I am not making things up and am not trying to rip anyone off as you state. I think I worded it wrong from what all you guys want and sorry for the miscomunications on that. I dont want to misinform anyone here at all this site is great for finding this stuff out and we can all learn alot from each other.

I do however know they did have some problems with some units not doing this and it was a simple relay problem. I am not looking to cause any problems just state that they work fine for us if you want simple. I do agree that there might be several different ways to do this and I am very intersted in what you are doing and would like more info on it as it sounds better than what everyone else out there is doing. I will PM you when you empty your box so we can talk or call if you are cool with that.

The Watsons peice is too hot rod looking for most of the cars I do so what you have sounds good. I would be intersted in talking more to you about it as we have been messing around with other things as well. But I can assure you by looking at what we do we dont missell people or try to get them to buy one thing over the other. We use the products that we think are the best for ease of installation and how long they last.

Again I am not trying to start anything or take buisness from anyone as I sell the Flaming River one as well but would like more options.

[perry mitchell]

Did any of you that sent mattyb money for his PUSH BUTTON START SYSTEM receive the item? I have been trying to get ahold of him for a couple of weeks now with no luck. His mail box is full and he doesn't accept personal e-mails. I am not worried about losing my money but am concerned he may be ill or something.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I was thiniking the exact same thing but I got an email from him last night. Apparently he's had to order the switches directly from the manufacturer and is waiting on THEM. He is upset over the delay and stressed that since demand has outstripped supply, it's making him look bad. Trust me, all is well with Matt and he said he's decided to send out the modules now and the switches when he gets them.
He will definately come through on his word, please be patient.

[jjump59]

Need to clean out your mailbox. I'd like the red switch.

[perry mitchell]

Thanks for the reply. I knew it had to be something simple because the times I corresponded with him he seemed like an honest guyand a straight shooter. I had a feeling he was going to be overwhelmed because of the high demand. He and Jim both hit a home runs with their systems.

[jlmccuan]

My next step is to find an RFID device on a small disc which I can put on the back of my watch. Anybody have a source for these?

[jerome]

http://rfidusa.com/superstore/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=12&products_id=69

you do carry a wallet right?

If you want a buddy to get something from the car for you, it would be weird to give him your watch...much more natural to give him a card.

Gotta have a wallet w/ drivers licence to drive right?

Don't know where you live, but in the near future, something you have will have an rfid. WA state already has RFID's on its drivers licences for border crossing to Canada. New passports have them too.

[jjump59]

OK, starting to get worried, no response from Matt even after opening a Paypal dispute, still has not emptied his mail box here. has anyone recieved anything from him? At this point just want to get money back.

[perry mitchell]

I heard from him this morning. It's still good. He says we should be receiving the modules any day now since he did send them out. The buttons will arrive separately.

[DarkoNova]

I don't even remember when I sent my money to him, but judging by the dates on the posts in this thread, I'd say it was around May 10th or so. I'd say just be patient since he said he had an issue with the S2000 switch, and the switch that worked right was on back order.

Matt

[jlmccuan]

Good idea on the card, Jerome. I'll try it out.

[madcarson]

maybe no news is good news ?

[Mike Holleman]

I got my module this afternoon from Matt. Looks well thought out. Hopefully it will work as good as it looks.
Mike Holleman

[Fesler built]

Matty B please clean out your mail box some of us have been trying to get in touch with you for weeks. its been full for weeks now

I have some questions for you on your switch

[jjump59]

Cool, hope I get one soon then. Only problem I have is the no communication, i've been trying to send pm's for awhile and posted here with no response from him. But anyway like I said, hope to have one soon.

[capbuster]

This is a great thread with a lot of good information...
Has anyone tried the K9 Sombra alarm for this?? I can't find the Swoosh unit anywhere for sale ( in the US anyway ).
BTW, I did find a watch that seems to contain an RFID tag..
http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/aston-martin/jaeger-chronograph-unlocks-the-aston-martin-dbs/
Although, it would NOT fit into my budget for the Camaro.

[MrQuick]

...thats right Mr Bond...pricey. LOL


Anyone eles receive their product ok?

[jjump59]

I disputed the charge thru Paypal and recieved a refund a couple of days ago. Like I said before it's all about the communication or lack of it. I think it's a great product and when he gets the switches or whatever the problem is it'll be good. I can't have the money out there for so long without knowing whats going on. Spent a couple of weeks trying to PM him with no response due to the full mail box and got worried, I mean who would just not clean out the box and reply to everyone?

[DarkoNova]

You know, I'm kind of getting worried now. I'm a little strapped for cash and $400 would go a long way.

Anyone else get their stuff?

Matt

[jlmccuan]

$400 - seriously? I thought he was coming up with a setup for under $100, so I just built mine and sort of lost interest in providing kits. Maybe I should rethink that.

[Cruiser]

So is there one of these guys making a kit to this? Lost track of whos who in the 5 pages....LOL

I am just wanting a push button start to work just like my keyed ign. No door locks, windows dome lights etc. I have a set of keys to get in!! ...LOL

[DarkoNova]

Anyone else get theirs? I don't really want to file a dispute with Paypal because he seems like a trustworthy guy...I just hope he's alright, because going this long without responding to any form of contact can't be good. :injured:

Matt

[jlmccuan]

Hmmm... According to his profile he last logged on - Last Activity: 06-23-2008 10:10 PM

[jjump59]

He's posted over at Lateral G also. jlmccuan, did you get my PM?

[DewMaster]

Thanks for the update Jim. Drop me an email when you post them.

Thanks again

Carl

[DarkoNova]

Hmmm... According to his profile he last logged on - Last Activity: 06-23-2008 10:10 PM

Interesting. I tried looking at his profile but didn't see "last login" anywhere. I tried emailing him a couple days ago, too, but haven't gotten a response.

Looks like I may have to file a Paypal dispute and just order the Flaming River one. :dunno:

Matt

[DarkoNova]

Alright I just talked to Matt. Apparently he's been in a pretty bad accident and has been in the hospital for the last few weeks. Hopefully he'll be alright.

Matt

[madcarson]

Hope he's ok ! Soon as he's back in buiseness I'm in !:cheers:

[perry mitchell]

I have to ask. Of all of you that sent MattyB money for his push to start system either recieved the product or received a refund? I sent him money on May 5th and when he couldn't make his system work with the button I chose, he willingly offered me a refund. I accepted and he credited my paypal account. I received confirmation from paypal of this transaction but had to wait for the funds to clear his account. This is paypal's policy. I waited at least 2 weeks and nothing. Finally, I received an email from paypal that his account was lacking funds so my refund was denied. I contacted Matt again and told him the problem. He said he had 2 paypal accounts and that they (paypal) used the wrong account to re-imburse me. He appologized and said he would re-send the money. This was back on July 5th. Since then I have not heard from him. He won't respond to the emails I have sent him, both directly and through paypal. I am reluctant to post this on the forum because he seems to be a nice guy and if he is hurt, as somebody said he had a bad accident last month, I can wait till he is better, but it has been 2 1/2 months.

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I have to agree with you on all accounts. Paid for the push button start on Mar. 12 and after waiting quite some time found out there was a supply problem, ok cool. Then the accident, well I'm not a jerk, I can wait til he's back on his feet. But for someone that has always been outspoken and up front with everyone, for some reason, has not responded to requests for the latest info. I still believe Matt is a good guy that had some bad luck lately but why not get online and explain your situation so we can make an informed decision to either wait or ask for a refund?
I'm holding out a little longer because I think he came up with a very creative and slick push to start system (that I still want) but I can see the natives are getting restless.

[Mike Holleman]

OK, Here's my take. Matt shipped me my module and I received it on June 13. He says my Honda switch will not work with it so he will provide one that will. I went ahead and wired his module into my harness and waited on a switch. On July 4 he emailed that my switch was in and he would sent it right out. A week later I inquired about the switch again and he said it was mailed. USPS A few more days passed and no switch so he said he would ship it again UPS or Fed EX. As of today I still have no switch and no way to test his module or test fire my car. My project has now been stalled for at least 30 days. This is extremely bad timing for me as I have been putting off starting another project to get the Elky mostly complete. The customer is being patient but now I'm will be very much time crunched to have the Elky ready for Rtth. I'm not going to comment on Matt or his personal problems that may have come into play. I do not know him except thru this site. He has inconvenienced me in a major way and handled this situation unprofessionally. At least "I" do have a product that is worth the price charged if it works. At this point I will most likely have to pull the module back out of the car and go with a key start setup. If anything changes I will post it.

[jerome]

I have nothing to say about Matt, but does the kit not work with any momentary switch? It sounds kind of ridiculous that a little switch is holding your whole project up. You should definitely be able to rig something temporary up...

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Actually, Matt had sent me an email on May 19th regarding an issue with the original switch (something about bounce signals) but found another switch that did work and was going to use that instead but ran into a supply problem and was waiting on the manufacturer to restock. I've not heard anymore about it since.

[Mike Holleman]

I have nothing to say about Matt, but does the kit not work with any momentary switch? It sounds kind of ridiculous that a little switch is holding your whole project up. You should definitely be able to rig something temporary up...
Jerome, I'm not an ET, so my understanding of what is needed is lacking. A momentary switch will not work. What is needed is a single pole double throw momentary switch. The Honda switch I have caused bounce as Matt put it. Each press of the switch activates a function in a certain order. The Honda switch allowed it to jump steps. His module was designed to give acc. on first press, ign on second and starter when held and shutoff on third. I would have already looked for another source for the switch had I not been assured one was on the way. Yeah, I'm at fault for taking someone at their word.

[beep4beep]

Watson street works ,street rodder mag ad, sells a push button start,kill switch for under 150, but you need seperate security device,ign kill, or something simular.

[DarkoNova]

Yeah I paid for it around May 12th if I remember correctly, and I still haven't gotten anything. I emailed him a few times and finally got a response that he was in the hospital due to an accident. He said his brother was taking care of sending the units out and he'd check into it if I hadn't received it. Well, that was the last I've heard from him, I still don't have the system, and I tried to file a claim with Paypal but apparently it's been too long? They said they can't do anything about it and my only option is to keep trying to communicate with him.

Pretty pissed off right now as I've lost my job and am basically out of money, so $400 would help, at least for a little while.

Matt

[MrQuick]

Watson street works ,street rodder mag ad, sells a push button start,kill switch for under 150, but you need seperate security device,ign kill, or something simular. page 2 post #6....

why these guys are spending money.

[perry mitchell]

Pretty pissed off right now as I've lost my job and am basically out of money, so $400 would help, at least for a little while.

Matt[/quote]

I am wondering why you had to send him $400. I sent him $282 ($275 + 2.5% paypal fee) which he requested. Did everybody have to pay a diffrent price?

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Matt offered two versions: for $275 you get the pre-wired push to start setup and for $400 you get it with the RFID that activates the switch when you get close and disables it when you walk away so no one can jump in your car, push the button and take off.
All of which would be pretty cool if it ever gets delivered!

[perry mitchell]

Thanks Tom. I didn't know there were two versions. I am glad I didn't order the more expensive one. Matt isn't responding over at Later-G either.

[all wired]

Hey Perry,

I am in the electrical engineering field and I may be able to help to get your unit working with almost any pushbutton and a relay. If you would like help, just shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do

Jay

[MarkM66]

page 2 post #6....

why these guys are spending money.

http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/wiring_accessories.html

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I was just thinking about this today after driving 2 different cars with push button starts (Cadillac CTS & Infinity G35). I thought man this is so cool, then of course I realized that next Tues. will be 5 months since I (along with others) paid for and did not receive Matt's version of the push to start setup.
I sent Matt an email a few weeks ago asking him to do the right thing and either send the product I ordered or a refund - no response. This is just rediculous that this has gone on so long. I can't beleive Matt hasn't chimed in at some point to defend himself, offer to send our money back or tell us all to go to hell!
I really want this setup but dread looking at alternatives and spending more money. :ripped: Rant off.

[DarkoNova]

Yeah and it's complete bs that Paypal won't do anything to get the money back. I thought Paypal's motto was "the safer, easier way to pay." :banghead:

Matt

[Tom 72RS/SS]

The operative word being "pay" nothing about "refund"...damn, fooled again.

[Mark68]

What all of you should do if you get your money refunded is buy the kit from Digital Guard Dawg. I put this system in my '68 RS/SS Camaro and it works like a charm. It even fits in the hole on the dash where the original ignition switch mounts. I used my original ignition switch harness and hooked up the Guard Dawg wires directly to it using electrical connectors. This way, if I want to go back to the original setup, it is a simple plug and play procedure. To get the accessories to work you do need to wire in two 30 amp relays but this is very easy to do. The great feature is the RFID DAWG Tag which you carry on you and when you get say within 10 ft or so the system kicks in and you can start the car. They can be set to work automatically or manually. The battery is conserved if in the manual mode. When I bought my kit they offered me an extra RFID tag (which retail for $75), so if you order, ask for this deal also. Having two of them lets you can place one in the auto mode and use it and place the other in manual mode for a spare and save the battery. The kit cost $399 but I feel it was worth it because it was easy to hook up and it works as advertised. If anyone needs any further info on this kit, please ask and I will be more than happy to help out.

http://www.digitalguarddog.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DGD&Category_Code=a20000

[Tom 72RS/SS]

That's pretty much what I've already paid for but obviously never received. I don't know, another $400 bucks, this getting expensive! Watson streetworks sell one similar only without the RFID which I think would be useful.
I have a concern on how to wire this thing since I have a 2nd gen with the ignition on the column. On top of that, I have an electric fuel pump that comes on the key is turned...lots of questions...

[perry mitchell]

So Guys, what are we going to do? Are we just going to let him rip us off? Does anybody live in Sacramento? That is where Matt lives. He said he has an electronics shop/business there. I have to believe there are more than the three of us that got burned!

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Everyday when I get home from work I'm hoping to see a Fedex package with his name on it but of course that's probably never going to happen. I don't know how Matt sleeps at night knowing full well he's ripped us off.
Surely there is someone out there that knows him or where he works...a little help here please fellas.

[DarkoNova]

I dunno, but I could definitely use that money right now. I'm just too lazy to do anything about it. :poke:

Matt

[jjump59]

That's why I started complaining early, only have so long with paypal to file a claim. I also agree something needs to be done but I don't know what to tell you to do. How many people do we have here that bought from him and didn't receive anything? Did anyone receive anything from him? Just asking to see if we might have a fraudulant schemes case against him. I'm in law enforcement and can make some calls to see if anything can be done.

[Bruning Auto Design]

matty b "Last Activity: 07-29-2008 12:29 AM"

last posted on 5-23-08.

Looks like he still comes around...

[Tom 72RS/SS]

I'm sure he's been reading these posts but can't believe he won't jump in to say anything or even pm one of us. Never thought this would happen with someone from this forum and held out as long as I could (too long as it turns out) before saying anything. I'm not one to bash another but this is just wrong and he knows it.
At this point I just want the money back, I'd be afraid something may go wrong with the setup or have questions and won't get any help.
You can add me the list of someone that got nothing.

[Larry Callahan]

Did everyone pay via Paypal?

[Mike Holleman]

OK guys. Here is what I know. I recieved a module from Matt, in mid June. It was late July before I got a switch, from Matt, to test it. I did not work correctly. Matt had me check several areas to find what was wrong and within the PCB it was losing two of three grounds. He was going to get back to me with further instructions to determine what to do next. That's the last I heard. My guess is something in the board itself is bad. So basically I have a non working module. Only slightly better off than you guys. If you have followed my posts in Project updates, you know I'm running the car with a Ron Francis switch. I would still very much like to go with keyless push buttom but I have no time or patience left to deal with this setup. Matt, You need to get right with everyone who trusted you.
Mike Holleman

[perry mitchell]

Put me on the list as one who paid with paypal and received nothing. As outspoken as he was, he sure is quiet now. He promised me a refund as soon as he was convinced that I did not receive the unit that he supposedly sent. Once he was convinced of that, he said he lost his credibility with paypal because he claimed that paypal tried to refund me from the wrong account, (he said he has two paypal accounts) kinda like bouncing a check. Not only am I mad at Matt but I am not very happy with paypal either!!

[Steve1968LS2]

Everyone with Paypal needs to retract the $$ before time runs out since Matty seems like an unethical flake.

[perry mitchell]

Sorry. I just cleaned out my PM box for whoever was trying to get ahold of me

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Yep, per Matt's request, I payed using PayPal but it's been like 6 months now so I'm sure I have no recourse through them.
You know several months ago Matt emailed me all upset because he couldn't get the replacement switches fast enough and was "afraid of looking like a fraud" - his words. Well, guess what...

[TonyL]

Sorry guys, I didn't know about this situation till this morning. I haven't been keeping track of this thread. I assumed all was well. Since it is not and I cannot get to the bottom of it fast enough. I'll do what I can, I'll post his contact info for all to see. You're dealing with a real, legit business here, There's always the BBB and other consumer agencies to fall back on when you get burned. Call them.

It is true that I live here in Sac also, Rancho isn't that far away, I could pay him a visit, But I'll at least give him this last chance before I have to. Call him. If he blows you off, Let me know. Let us all know.

matt's first post.

Hey guys Im here introducing myself and let me just say that I am very impressed with the cars and the guys that build them on this forum. I guess I should tell you all a little bit about myself. My name is Matt and hail out of Sacramento, CA. I am the second generation owner of California Rewire and we specialize in custom wiring, light fabrication duties and engine swaps. We are pretty much located in the NorCal car mecca of Rancho Cordova

a quick google of sacramento and "california rewire"....
Here's his site. http://www.calrewire.com/
Here's his phone number

Call us toll free at 1-800-8-seven-8-294 seven (for the bots that'll be seeing that number.)
11419 White Rock Rd. Rancho Cordova, CA 95742

[parsonsj]

I think Matt needs to get a phone call from each of the members he stiffed.

Matt: give these people their money back.

jp

[TonyL]

Here's his local 916 area code number, in case there's a problem with the 1 800 number.

Phone: 916638542four

[TonyL]

aaaaand his email address.

mattnsac "at" hotmail.com

[Tom 72RS/SS]

Tony, I think that's his email to his Blackberry but he won't respond to any my messages.
If I got my money back, it would make a nice down payment on the Flaming River setup ($599.) Ouch!

[perry mitchell]

Hey Guys. I just talked to Matt through the phone number that Tony provided and all is well. He said he was in and out of the hospital and is going in again soon for more surgury. I didn't get into the details but I am glad he is all right. He said he did refund me but when he looked up his account it said the transaction was pending. He didn't realize that he needed to push the PAY NOW button. He did so while I waited and sure enough, I received an instant email saying I received payment from Matt. I told him that there were others in the same boat. You guys should give him a call He will take care of you. Thanks Matt, sorry for the hastle and hope you get well. Perry

[TonyL]

Im glad to see this is working out. I hope this gets all cleared up and things go back to normal. I hope matt is indeed ok. I remember him saying he'd been seriously hurt in a motorcycle accident last year, perhaps this is related, and he's still getting surgeries to fix it.

Once I am aware that all this is cool, Im going to remove the contact info and clean up this thread. Those that are owed, please let me know by PMing me weather you've been taken care of or not.

[mr_hyde]

The switch is just a momentary contact with a light. The relays provide the logic of the functions of on, off, and start. The RFID alarm sends power to the relays, unlocks the doors and turns on the interior lights when the fob is within range(about 30 feet). The central locking sends the lock/unlock signal to the door lock actuators.

Here is the schematic for using a momentary switch to provide a latched on or off condition. All I did was put a DEI28T time relay into it to provide a 12VDC signal to the starter solenoid after an adjustable delay.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/LatchedOnOffOutputfromMomentary-1.jpg

I got the Honda S2000 Engine Start Button from http://www.autopartspeople.com/ for $39.78
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/001-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/002-1.jpg

I just used a cheap Ebay RFID alarm.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/rfid-1.jpg

I think it was $75

I bought the relays, Bosch 30/40 Amp SPDT for less than $2 each with sockets.

The DEI relay was well under $25 for 2

The Central Lock was from Autotoys.comjlmccuan, I've been searching the net for this exact solution for several days and had not found exactly what I wanted until reading this whole (yikes, yes whole) thread. Early on in my reading, I liked your idea and your personality and had concerns about Matt based on the tone of some of his posts. At any rate, I think this whole concept is worth continuing either here on in a fresh thread.

I clicked the ebay link you showed and there is nothing exactly like that listed right now. If it's not too much trouble, do you have a complete 'start to finish' schematic? I'm wondering what you were using from the alarm that engages the start button board? In my blurry reading, it seems this project has two distinct phases: 1. Getting and RFID to unlock the card and 2. Using the start button instead of the traditional key. One or the other would be neat but both together are REALLY cool. Any further suggestions would be great. Thanks for the hard work!
-hyde

[viper11]

hi mr_hyde
this is the rfid alarm I picked up,
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-K9-SOMBRA-AUTOMATIC-KEYLESS-ENTRY-CAR-ALARM-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ150291071673QQihZ005QQcategoryZ602 02QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
not installed yet but it looks good for the price
jason

[mr_hyde]

Thanks Viper - that looks good. It would seem that the RFID portion of the project is not too hard to make happen and that it could be updated fairly easily in the future. I have considered, for instance, it may be cool to have the RFID on a card in my wallet. You're not supposed to drive without a license (kept in most of our wallets), right? I've already ordered the S2000 button and 30A relay.

On a side note, how are you guys dealing with the steering wheel lock?
-hyde

[mr_hyde]

Update - ordered the RF unit viper suggested and the rest of the relays. I still hoping to have the full schematic confirmed. I think the one I referenced a few posts up did not deal with the illuminated start button issue. Jlm mentioned a different trigger scheme but I don't think I saw it listed. If nothing else, I'll have a small 12v battery on the kitchen table with two meters and a few jumpers and see if I can make some sparks fly! :):jump:
-hyde

[jlmccuan]

I can't believe this thread is still active. It wasn't my post originally, but since I was working on the same thing at the time, my intent was to give some encouragement to folks that it can be done. I will start a new thread, rather than make folks wander through page after page of stuff that has nothing to do with how to make it work. I hope that the new thread will not become a rehash of the problems of people's business transactions. I totally underestimated the interest in this type of device. I will say this - I will not accept any orders for a solution on a prepaid basis.

A question for the moderator of this forum. Is this the proper forum to open discussion to determine the volume of interest in a secure push to start product?

[vipercuda]

I can't believe this thread is still active. It wasn't my post originally, but since I was working on the same thing at the time, my intent was to give some encouragement to folks that it can be done. I will start a new thread, rather than make folks wander through page after page of stuff that has nothing to do with how to make it work. I hope that the new thread will not become a rehash of the problems of people's business transactions. I totally underestimated the interest in this type of device. I will say this - I will not accept any orders for a solution on a prepaid basis.

A question for the moderator of this forum. Is this the proper forum to open discussion to determine the volume of interest in a secure push to start product?

I will tell all members here that the Flaming River system does work well. We have installed it in two cars at the shop getting ready for SEMA. It takes a bit to install and is wiring intensive. You have top have the remote in the right area but all in all it seems to work quite well.....

Mike

[derekf]

A question for the moderator of this forum. Is this the proper forum to open discussion to determine the volume of interest in a secure push to start product?I'd say yes - but in it's own thread, please.

[perry mitchell]

Absolutely! I am still very interested. I tried to contact you several times without success. So let's get it done. I was kinda waiting to see if a product would show up at SEMA.

[JohnC]

Absolutely! I am still very interested. I tried to contact you several times without success. So let's get it done. I was kinda waiting to see if a product would show up at SEMA.

I would appreciate if someone could tell me what I'm not understanding here.

Doesn't Flaming River offer this product as already stated?

Is there a reason you guys are not acknowledging it or happy with it? Is there something you guys don't like about it?

You input is important to me because I'm going to put a push-button start in my project (Flaming River or somebodies...)

Thanks

[Radlark]

Well I will take a stab at it, being in the electronics industry and having access to speaking with many engineers, I think the FR piece is a piece of work (meaning a good design)! But at the same time I am always trying to design a mouse trap that is similar but more cost effective with all of the same safety precautions along with the security and piece of mind when you leave your vehicle parked. I think the bottom line regarding the FR piece is pricing, but that is just my OPINION! I too am working on a unit that is close to completion I have 2 units made I am testing them as we speak on a fuel injected vehicle and a carburetor vehicle.

[mr_hyde]

I can't believe this thread is still active. It wasn't my post originally, but since I was working on the same thing at the time, my intent was to give some encouragement to folks that it can be done. I will start a new thread, rather than make folks wander through page after page of stuff that has nothing to do with how to make it work. I hope that the new thread will not become a rehash of the problems of people's business transactions. I totally underestimated the interest in this type of device. I will say this - I will not accept any orders for a solution on a prepaid basis.

A question for the moderator of this forum. Is this the proper forum to open discussion to determine the volume of interest in a secure push to start product?
Jlm,
It is great to see you back! I have put my project on the back burner but I have everything I need in a box waiting for more time. The diagram you originally posted did not indicate exactly where the timer relay comes in. I have tried some things on the bench but was having problems with the latching nature of things. I was thinking about 'wimping out' and putting in a toggle switch for the ignition circuit but that would take all the fun out of things!:yeah:

It would be great to see a fresh discussion on this without all of the other nonsense. I think many would be interested in a setup where a cheap RFID alarm and a single button could be used to securely start and stop their engine. :git: We anxiously await an update ;)
-hyde

[mr_hyde]

Well I will take a stab at it, being in the electronics industry and having access to speaking with many engineers, I think the FR piece is a piece of work (meaning a good design)! But at the same time I am always trying to design a mouse trap that is similar but more cost effective with all of the same safety precautions along with the security and piece of mind when you leave your vehicle parked. I think the bottom line regarding the FR piece is pricing, but that is just my OPINION! I too am working on a unit that is close to completion I have 2 units made I am testing them as we speak on a fuel injected vehicle and a carburetor vehicle.
+1 Flaming River has a nice product but in the spirit of learning and tinkering, some may want to build their own.
-h

[fairlane347]

Just my 2 cents, I work for the company that builds the system for Flaming River. It was a SEMA last year, as a new product. Our system is really good, but price is a concern. If the current product is a success a newer updated system might be in the works, with less parts and extra features. I mentioned to the guys here it would be cool to adapt passive door entry to the package.

[WILWAXU]

Just my 2 cents, I work for the company that builds the system for Flaming River. It was a SEMA last year, as a new product. Our system is really good, but price is a concern. If the current product is a success a newer updated system might be in the works, with less parts and extra features. I mentioned to the guys here it would be cool to adapt passive door entry to the package.Yup.. like the direction you are going there. Would like to have one "fob" that unlocks the doors/trunk and also is the "igniter" Keep us up to date!

[DarkoNova]

Yeah, whenever I get my money back from Matt, I'd like to get the Flaming River setup.

Does anyone know if the push button actually stops the engine as well? Or is it just to start it? How do accessories get power?

I'd also like to have a button that says "engine start" or something, rather than just a boring red button.

Matt

[Radlark]

Well my prelim stage is that it is a 2 part system my unit actually unlocks the doors (or pops them if they are shaven) via key FOB, and the second part of the system will energize the ignition system I have a fail safe setup that occurs if you are like walking out to the car to grab something out of the trunk (the ignition circuit will not energize), so far so good I can tell you this I also have a 2008 335i BMW with this exact same system (of course the BMW system is pretty awesome....read as EXPENSIVE!! LOL but my unit.......so far will start and stop the engine!! Keep your fingers crossed I am almost done testing!!

[fairlane347]

Yeah, whenever I get my money back from Matt, I'd like to get the Flaming River setup.

Does anyone know if the push button actually stops the engine as well? Or is it just to start it? How do accessories get power?

I'd also like to have a button that says "engine start" or something, rather than just a boring red button.

Matt

Yes the FR set-up will start and stop the engine. You push the button one to get accessories and then push and hold a split second to start engine. To shut off push button again. Hope I helped. yes right now the button is boring but I think the second release might be different style button.

[JohnC]

Yes the FR set-up will start and stop the engine. You push the button one to get accessories and then push and hold a split second to start engine. To shut off push button again. Hope I helped. yes right now the button is boring but I think the second release might be different style button.

Is it possible to incorporate the cool-looking Honda S2000 Start/Stop button?

Can you just swap out the FR button for that one?

When is the second release coming?

Thanks

John

[DarkoNova]

Yes the FR set-up will start and stop the engine. You push the button one to get accessories and then push and hold a split second to start engine. To shut off push button again. Hope I helped. yes right now the button is boring but I think the second release might be different style button.


Is it possible to incorporate the cool-looking Honda S2000 Start/Stop button?

Can you just swap out the FR button for that one?

When is the second release coming?

Thanks

John

Took the questions right out of my mouth. If the button could easily be swapped for an S2000 one or maybe one out of a newer BMW, I'd buy the Flaming River setup in a heartbeat.

Matt

[bigtyme1]

Took the questions right out of my mouth. If the button could easily be swapped for an S2000 one or maybe one out of a newer BMW, I'd buy the Flaming River setup in a heartbeat.

Matt
I'm in on that as well. Seams like FR has it figured out, just don't like the button

[fairlane347]

Is it possible to incorporate the cool-looking Honda S2000 Start/Stop button?

Can you just swap out the FR button for that one?

When is the second release coming?

Thanks

John

I would think you could swap out the button yourselves, its nothing special. The second release is, I have NO idea, they are not that far.

[scottdidit]

has anyone looked at this?www.keytroller.com/pdf/KISS-GENIE%20Lit%201-08.pdf (http://www.keytroller.com/pdf/KISS-GENIE%20Lit%201-08.pdf)
I have one here at the shop.. I havent had time to play with it yet:guilty:
I'm sure it will work and I think it is what everyone is looking for ... well it dosent say start stop.. but other than that.
I was only disapointed that it has a short battery life.

[bigtyme1]

has anyone looked at this?www.keytroller.com/pdf/KISS-GENIE%20Lit%201-08.pdf (http://www.keytroller.com/pdf/KISS-GENIE%20Lit%201-08.pdf)
I have one here at the shop.. I havent had time to play with it yet:guilty:
I'm sure it will work and I think it is what everyone is looking for ... well it dosent say start stop.. but other than that.
I was only disapointed that it has a short battery life.

Where did you see battery life? I'm hoping there is a few to look at in SEMA

[scottdidit]

I have had several conversations with them and the passive unit is motion activated, thus you would ware out the battery just walking around. It does have a way to shut it off but would you?

[perry mitchell]

When you guys get back from SEMA, I hope you bring back some information about any "push to start" systems that you find.

[deluxecustoms]

I have put together a microprocessor based single button Push-to-Start system. This is my second working prototype and I've worked out all the bugs so it really kicks ass! Every car person who's witnessed it's functionality has expressed real interest and I want to start taking orders. I have found it extremely difficult to price this Push-to-Start system since I've built it by hand. My plan is to order the parts for and build 100 units so I can accurately gauge my time+cost ratio. Obviously if I order and build more than one at a time, I will be able to reduce the cost of production.

With a RFID security system and non-locking steering column, you will NEVER have to take the keys out of your pocket.

My wife thinks I'm crazy for wanting to do this in light of the economic situation, and I truly believe it will be a success.

My question to you... How much would you expect to pay for a Push-to-Start system?

[Flash68]

I have put together a microprocessor based single button Push-to-Start system. This is my second working prototype and I've worked out all the bugs so it really kicks ass! Every car person who's witnessed it's functionality has expressed real interest and I want to start taking orders. I have found it extremely difficult to price this Push-to-Start system since I've built it by hand. My plan is to order the parts for and build 100 units so I can accurately gauge my time+cost ratio. Obviously if I order and build more than one at a time, I will be able to reduce the cost of production.

With a RFID security system and non-locking steering column, you will NEVER have to take the keys out of your pocket.

My wife thinks I'm crazy for wanting to do this in light of the economic situation, and I truly believe it will be a success.

My question to you... How much would you expect to pay for a Push-to-Start system?

Looks nice! Not sure how much I would pay, but I am interested.

What price point are you thinking? You're the one who knows your costs. :)

[bigtyme1]

The only one on the market so far is by Flaming River and most people do not like them and the over priced at $550.00 I'd say some where around $300.00 if your trying to move them along. I'm intersted but would like to see more details on install and function.

[Jimmy Sean]

The only one on the market so far is by Flaming River and most people do not like them and the over priced at $550.00 I'd say some where around $300.00 if your trying to move them along. I'm intersted but would like to see more details on install and function.


X2 for me.

[JohnC]

Like the title says, is there any development for a push button start in the works like the new C6 corvette AND pass-key (activate the door membrane to go into the car) ??

[WILWAXU]

Flaming River had a new product at SEMA. They have incorporated the push button start/pass key into their columns.

Pretty cool setup:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2939329640050438321dwWAsV)

[perry mitchell]

I would like to know more about your system and how it works first. I am willing to spend an appropriate amount of money - $200 to $400 should be a range you could work with.

[thedugan]

im in too.
would be trick in a 68 Camaro to replace the dash key