which A/C unit?

[CamaroAJ]

i installed a 4th gen dash into my 67 camaro and now i am looking at putting A/C into it. there is enough room behind the dash that i can fit behind it so size isn't an issue. what is though i want to hook everything up to the factory 2002 vents and controls, anyone know of a unit that will let me do this?

[lbdz28]

I am doing the same thing with a 69 Camaro and talked to a rep for Hot Rod Air at a show. He pointed me to their Elite Deluxe system. Said you could send in your existing controls and they would make them work with their system. Quoted $1120.00 for the full system.
Would be interested if anyone has any experience with this system and what they thought of it.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am not sure about Hot Rod Air hooking up to late model controls, but I do know of the 3 A/C systems we have installed, being Vintage Air, Classic Air and Hot Rod Air. My least favorite performer was Hot Rod Air by a bunch. We used it in a convertible, and the customer gave up and rolled the windows down. Very weak compared to the other 2. For that reason we do not sell Hot Rod Air.

With that said, neither VA or CA will use the 4th gen dash controls, so you are almost forced to have weak A/C or other controls.

[CamaroAJ]

hmm....i if i can adapt there controls to the knobs and face plate of the stock controls. i was looking at the Vintage Air system. i just need to get my hands on one and see how hard it will be to hook up the vents and make the controls work.

[dhutton]

I just finished looking at the Vintage Air Gen IV controls because I am trying to install a 69 Camaro setup in a 69 Firebird. The VA controls use slide potentiometers to replace the cables. The potentiometers are 11 kohm. There are three controls, one for fan speed, one for temperature and one for dash vents/floor/defrost. Vintage Air sells an accessory control panel with 3 rotary potentiometers and knobs that could also be used. The 69 Firebird controls only have two sliders and a switch for fan speed so I can't quite use them in the same way the Vintage Air uses the three sliders in the Camaro controls.

At this point it looks like I have 3 options:

1. The Vintage Air rotary control panel
2. Make a custom panel with 3 slide potentiometers
3. Make a custom panel with 3 rotary potentiometers similar to the VA control panel

If you decide to do something with potentiometers be careful of the taper (change of resistance with movement). I think it's a linear taper and if you use something else the action of the controls will not be correct. The slider also does not go to zero ohms at the ends so be sure to measure and add a series resistor to both ends of the pot. I think a 10k pot with 470 ohms on both ends will get you close enough.

Don

[ProdigyCustoms]

Don, Any chance of fitting a Camaro slide control in there? I probably have one you could check out. The 3 knob deal kinda sucks because it requires a ECM chance to, which is $300 some odd dollars!

[dhutton]

Frank ,the horizontal Firebird controls are angled quite a bit differently compared to the vertical Camaro controls but that is another option I have considered.

Thanks for the headsup on the VA control panel needing a new ECM. I just assumed it was three rotary pots to replace the three sliders. I wish I could get my hands on the schematic of the controller and VA control panel...

Another option I came up with and abandoned was using the Firebird fan switch and some resistors to make the VA fan speed operate at low med high speed with the Firebird switch. Looks like I need to put this one back on the list. This might be the easiest solution.

If you have an old Camaro set laying around by all means send them to me and I'll take a look. I could probably find a cheap set on ebay too.

Don

[KUL FIR CHICK N]

The Gen 4 systems can come with several different ecu's, but the Magnum and non-air '69 Camaro use the same one. The pots are wired as voltage dividers, and you can use any linear pot in the 5-15k range. No need for additional resistors on the end, it can go to zero. The ecu can be calibrated to use any portion of the full travel and scale that portion. Also, you can rig the switch to run as a stepped voltage divider. The Gen 4 systems are extremely flexible, if you're crafty, you can convert about any panel.

You need to have a basic understanding of electronics to mess with setting up a voltage divider on the blower switch, but you can't get into a lot of trouble on the pots if you're careful. Once you know what you want to do, let me know and I'll guide you through what you need to do to make the conversion work.

Don, if your car is a non-air FB, I'd buy the non-air '69 camaro kit with the understanding that you'll need to work out a few things since it wasn't designed as a "sure fit" for your car, but is very close to the FB. I've got both a non-air and factory air '69 FB panel in my office and the non-air panel is a pretty easy conversion. The factory air panel will take a bit more work since it runs on vacuum. Either way, I'll help you make it work.

A.J., You can't just plug in the factory late model controls, but you could probably gut them and install three pots to the original panel and knobs with a bit of fabrication. Again, I'd be happy to guide you through it.

I'm always leery about suggesting that people can do custom installations since you never know the skill level of the person you're dealing with, but many of the guys on this site are easily up to the task. When we set out to design the Gen 4, I wanted it to be absolutely as flexible as possible so that custom installations like these would be possible.

If anyone jumps on the "brand HRA" mentioned above, please fill us in on how it works out.

Ryan

[CamaroAJ]

i will look at the controler tomorrow, i maybe be abe to make something fit as long as it fits good and looks like it should be there.

[CamaroAJ]

You need to have a basic understanding of electronics to mess with setting up a voltage divider on the blower switch, but you can't get into a lot of trouble on the pots if you're careful. Once you know what you want to do, let me know and I'll guide you through what you need to do to make the conversion work.

A.J., You can't just plug in the factory late model controls, but you could probably gut them and install three pots to the original panel and knobs with a bit of fabrication. Again, I'd be happy to guide you through it.

I'm always leery about suggesting that people can do custom installations since you never know the skill level of the person you're dealing with, but many of the guys on this site are easily up to the task. When we set out to design the Gen 4, I wanted it to be absolutely as flexible as possible so that custom installations like these would be possible.

Ryan

i do alot of electrical work at work. being a GM tech and Master ASE, plus i do all my own fab work so i'll under stand what your telling me. i planed on gutting the back side i just want the face to look factory. i'm pretty easy on any ideas you have, i would like to tie the factory vents into this, i think if i make a fiberglass connection to hook the hoses too i'll be in good shape. looks like the Gen 4 is the way to go for what i'm doing.

[KUL FIR CHICK N]

Fire me off a photo of the panel. In the morning I'll look up some pn's for pots that should fit the bill.

Ryan

[dhutton]

The Gen 4 systems can come with several different ecu's, but the Magnum and non-air '69 Camaro use the same one. The pots are wired as voltage dividers, and you can use any linear pot in the 5-15k range. No need for additional resistors on the end, it can go to zero. The ecu can be calibrated to use any portion of the full travel and scale that portion. Also, you can rig the switch to run as a stepped voltage divider. The Gen 4 systems are extremely flexible, if you're crafty, you can convert about any panel.

You need to have a basic understanding of electronics to mess with setting up a voltage divider on the blower switch, but you can't get into a lot of trouble on the pots if you're careful. Once you know what you want to do, let me know and I'll guide you through what you need to do to make the conversion work.

Don, if your car is a non-air FB, I'd buy the non-air '69 camaro kit with the understanding that you'll need to work out a few things since it wasn't designed as a "sure fit" for your car, but is very close to the FB. I've got both a non-air and factory air '69 FB panel in my office and the non-air panel is a pretty easy conversion. The factory air panel will take a bit more work since it runs on vacuum. Either way, I'll help you make it work.

A.J., You can't just plug in the factory late model controls, but you could probably gut them and install three pots to the original panel and knobs with a bit of fabrication. Again, I'd be happy to guide you through it.

I'm always leery about suggesting that people can do custom installations since you never know the skill level of the person you're dealing with, but many of the guys on this site are easily up to the task. When we set out to design the Gen 4, I wanted it to be absolutely as flexible as possible so that custom installations like these would be possible.

If anyone jumps on the "brand HRA" mentioned above, please fill us in on how it works out.

Ryan

Thanks for the help Ryan. I already have a Gen IV setup for a non A/C Camaro sitting in my shop. I'm starting to like the idea of using the fan switch as a voltage divider. Can you give me the optimum divider values that I need to have to drive the fan to low/med/high? I'm an electronics engineer so I should be able to figure it out from there. Does the controller feed 12 volts to the pots or is it something different?

Do the other two pots travel over their full length when installed in a 69 Camaro control panel?

I do have one other question too that we have been discussing on ls1tech.com. Why do you supply a rear exit compressor for the LS1 mounting bracket? It looks like the hoses are going to hit the engine frame mounts. Is there any issue with using the side exit compressor with the LS1 bracket?

Thanks again,
Don

[PRRC]

We have the Hot Rod Air units on sale right now. (In our weekly specials)The controller change is an 185.00 up grade. But my understanding is they change them over if they are cable driven. We have a 69 Pontiac we are installing a unit in with the controller change. I personally like the Hot Rod Air units better than the Vintage Air. I think both air very good products.
Tim

[KUL FIR CHICK N]

We use 2.5k per step for a three speed blower switch. The signal voltage is 5v. In the control panel cable, the red is 5v and the solid white is ground. The white with colored stripe wires are the signal return lines. You will not use the white/blue. You can play with the values to tune your preference for low and medium speed. Using the calibration procedure in the instructions, you can calibrate for any span between 0-5v. For instance, if you have 2-4v, 2 will be off, and 4 will be high with the range in between being linear. You can also reverse the functions by reversing the calibration procedure where 4 would be off and 2 would be high. Its pretty versatile.

A word of warning to anyone tinkering with electronics, NEVER use a "test light" for any reason. You are essentially poking around with a dead short, which could fry components instantly if you poke on the wrong line. Only use a digital multimeter and if you don't know, ask.

Ryan

[dhutton]

We use 2.5k per step for a three speed blower switch. The signal voltage is 5v. In the control panel cable, the red is 5v and the solid white is ground. The white with colored stripe wires are the signal return lines. You will not use the white/blue. You can play with the values to tune your preference for low and medium speed. Using the calibration procedure in the instructions, you can calibrate for any span between 0-5v. For instance, if you have 2-4v, 2 will be off, and 4 will be high with the range in between being linear. You can also reverse the functions by reversing the calibration procedure where 4 would be off and 2 would be high. Its pretty versatile.

A word of warning to anyone tinkering with electronics, NEVER use a "test light" for any reason. You are essentially poking around with a dead short, which could fry components instantly if you poke on the wrong line. Only use a digital multimeter and if you don't know, ask.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan. I didn't realize that the system could be calibrated by the user. I think I'm going to go with the fan switch voltage divider solution. I've got enough to do on this project without having to fab custom controls.

Update: Now that I've got a fan speed solution I went back and starting looking at hooking up the other two slide pots. The upper Firebird control is designed to move two cables, one through the first half of it's travel, the other through the second half. This means that if I connect one of the VA sliders to one of them it will only operate over half the travel of the Firebird control. Ryan, am I seeing this right and if so, do you have a solution for this?

I also noticed that the cable connection pins are larger than the holes in the VA slide pots? Are the Firebird pins larger than the Camaro pins?

Thanks,
Don