67 Camaro Touring car

[Cdog]

Hey all. How's it going. I've been a visitor for a couple of years now and decided to sign up for the fourm.



I've had my 67 Camaro for 12 years now and have been looking to make a Touring car out of it since the day I got it. Some how in high school it ended up a drag car. I got intrested in re- hashing the project since the Mule was in Hot -rodding Mag.

So I'm looking for some advise and experiance for my suspension.
I've talked to Wayne Due and DSE. I like the design of wayne's frame.
DSE said they will have a Tri-4 Link kit out first quarter of 05. Seems like a lot of work to attach to a 37 year old car. Fab work is no problem, my cousin owns a rod and fab shop and my best friend does the fastest street cars shoot out.

What i'm really looking for is a engineered frame. I spoke to Kevin over a Art Morrison about a new G frame for the First Gen Camaros. He seemed to hit all of the hot bottons like redoing the floor pan of the car and opening up the fire wall. Bolt -ons are great but i'll have this car till I die so I really want it done right the first time. From what i've read the Art G-frame on a 55 chevy out handled a new vette.

So what are your recomenditions and experiances?

[Payton King]

I had a DSE set up on my car...it has never hit the road. Sold it to one of my friends. I am going with a 21st Century Street Machines C5 front clip. They basically designed their own sub frame using the C5 stuff and a rack from ARG. Uses a NASCAR style sway bar...very slick. With the subframe they are making custom headers for your application. Mine is a LS1, but they are doing bigblocks and small blocks as well. Go to www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com and take a look. Their shop is about 5 minutes from my office and I can tell lyou I have crawled all over that subframe before making a decision

[Cdog]

Would'nt a full frame care handle better? Not flex as much. By the time you add subframe connectors and the rear suspension, there wont be much of a weight savings. Enlighten me. What do you think?

[BRIAN]

There are plenty of suspension experts here so I will leave the design to their opinion but as far as the frame: If you have no problem cutting car up and this is no expense spared build a full frame is the only way to go. Honestly when I build a car I try and leave as much of the factory floor and seams as possible as it always winds up being cleaner well finished look. I would probably would just do front clip and tie into remaining car. No I am not going both ways here. If you have rusted out shell gut it and start with bare frame. If rear unibody is salvageable tie into it. Starting with bare frame is expensive as to finish off metal work correctly is VERY expensive and time consuming but would be the ultimate way to go. Money is always the deciding factor.

[MuscleRodz]

I second Brian's thoughts. I think I have taken my 68 Camaro to the ragged edge without doing a full frame and could have real easy at one point but I wanted it to have a stock look underneath. You can click on my sig at the bottom and see what I have done. I will have $10K underneath a solid rolling shell before I start body work and nobody will see any of it when its on the road! All in the name of stance and drivability.

Floor pan channeled 2", tube rear subframe tied to reinforced rockers, working on satchel rear suspension, 6 pt roll bar, custom front subframe, and a few other tricks up my sleeve.

Mike

[TitoJones]

I have a full framed car. Wayne Due built it himself. It is one of the most solid Camaros out there. Zero flex.




If you don't want to go full frame, but don't mind cutting into certain areas, I'd recommend a frame similar to the one Payton King has from 21st CSM-



This one is built by Wayne Due- It uses all correct C5 mounting and geometry, plus leaves the rack and pinion in the C5 stock location- Requiring an engine setback, but improving handling/weight distribution.

Just fuel for the fire.

Tyler

[Cdog]

Nice! I've been watchin your car for a while. In fact I spoke to Wayne about it. Looks like your doin the rear IRS and re did the whole floor pan. Did you set the engine back for the weight dist. or because of the drive shaft tube being short? How much did you loose in the dash? My floor pan is ok but the trunk and wheel tubs are goners. I've allready got all the new sheet metal for the trunk with exception for the DSE deep tubs. Is your car done yet? If so how does it handle? Have you seen the Art M setup? I used to have a 68 SS 350 with the same Mountain Green color.

[TitoJones]

Yeah, we went nuts on the frame/sheetmetal. What pisses most people off is that I started with a rust-free car, and cut it apart. My IRS is totally different than any other Wayne has done, since it is C5. I have the rear mounted T56 transaxle using factory C5 cradles and suspension geoemtry.

The engine was setback because of where it sits on the front cradle. We had to lengthen the tube to reach it even with a 7" setback into the firewall. My dash is no longer in exisitance, but I was planning on a custom interior anyways.


Art Morrisons stuff is very nice, and if they make a 1st gen Fbody clip, I'd like to see it.
My car is a ways off from being done, but I am sure it will out handle 97% of the cars it goes up against.

Tyler

[kracker]

Payton king what is your reson for the 21st C-5 front? have you ever seen a Due C-5 front? What is the cost of the 21st front? It kinda looks like less then good fab work.

[kracker]

Cdog, the body on a first gen or any unibody car is vary stong, and once you cut all that away it becomes a bit weak, unless your doing a project like Tyler, ( sweet!!)
it is not the best way to go. Did the guys at AM tell you if you go with the tri.
four bar rear there is no more rear seat? or if you go with there Corvette front you would need to move the eng. back? AM makes vary nice stuff! thats for sure, but remember you were talking to a SALES MAN.

[Cdog]

Cdog, the body on a first gen or any unibody car is vary stong, and once you cut all that away it becomes a bit weak, unless your doing a project like Tyler, ( sweet!!)
it is not the best way to go. Did the guys at AM tell you if you go with the tri.
four bar rear there is no more rear seat? or if you go with there Corvette front you would need to move the eng. back? AM makes vary nice stuff! thats for sure, but remember you were talking to a SALES MAN.

Ya. The sales guy (Kevin), was trying to tell me that the C-5 and C-4 Vette suspension is ok but expensive. I have never been too excited about using pinto/mustang a-arms on my camaro but he was trying to sell me on their G frame. I believe he said that they are doing one right now and it requires a bit of chopping to the floor to sink the frame into the car and lower the ride height. I have spoke to Wayne D a couple of times and have come real close to putting in a order for a subframe. The tech. for these cars seems to be getting better and better every year, I wonder what's next. Now i'm thinking of running Wayne's subframe and have him extend the frame to mate up with the AM Tri-4 bar rear. It would be pretty much a full frame car.
Some guy's are really doing some cool stuff to their cars, some of it is excotic and a tad bit over kill. I'm planning on 650 hp LS small block and to run this car on the track for fun and then drive it home with the AC cranking. So what's the best route for the rear suspension Tri-4 bar, IRS or truck arm? What would be really cool is a rear section that replaces the rear frame rails and is set up for the tri-4 bar. What do they use in the Trans -Am cars?

[Ralph LoGrasso]

The Trans-Am cars that I've seen run 3-links.

[Cdog]

The Trans-Am cars that I've seen run 3-links.

Is that like a ladder bar with a sway bar?

[phattires68]

That's about the most awesome setup I've ever seen... No nonsense butt kickin... Do a search on his name but make sure you have a drool cloth handy. Not stealing any thunder from you Tyler, yours is wicked as well.

On another note, Do you really have to loose the back seat if you go w/ AME's tri-4 bar rear clip??? I thought you could leave it in but rework the bottom cushion.

[Cdog]

That's about the most awesome setup I've ever seen... No nonsense butt kickin... Do a search on his name but make sure you have a drool cloth handy. Not stealing any thunder from you Tyler, yours is wicked as well.

On another note, Do you really have to loose the back seat if you go w/ AME's tri-4 bar rear clip??? I thought you could leave it in but rework the bottom cushion.

Seems to me you should be able to make the AM tri-4 work with a rear seat. I'm going with a roll cage so i'm not too worried about the rear seat. Usually in a tubbed car you loose the rear seat because of the frame rails are so close to eachother, so you end up with a little pad in the middle. I was thinking, if you had a rear section that just replaced the rear frame rails you would need a new fab'd trunk but the rear seat should be ok.

[kracker]

I think the AM tri 4 bar is a vary good way to go but looks like the rear seat is a goner.
but maybe not, lets get a measurement from rear axle CL to were the 2x4 rails go under the car, I think John Parsons could help out here.