aftermarket accessory brackets - HELP!

[BobB66SS]

I'm new to this forum and am looking for some expert help.

I have a 66 Chevelle SS with a 461BBC and T-56 trans. Detroit Speed worked a bunch on the car when their shop was still in MI (I was 10 minutes from them then , NC is a bit further).

I need some help with aftermarket accessory brackets.

Despite searching all the suppliers I could think of in the industry (March, Billet Specialties, Zoops, Alan Grove, DSE) I can't find a set of brackets that will work for all the components. The car has Vintage Air AC compressor mounted on passenger side (outside the head), Billet Specialties alternator on driver's side (also outside), short water pump, and power steering including the factory gearbox. The car has Billet Specialties brackets on it now for the AC and alt.

The main problem I have is finding a bracket setup that will work for the PS. I can go with a Type II / TC-style pump from Detroit Speed (preferred direction) or even a stock style pump (2nd choice), either with a remote reservoir. But no one seems to make a bracket that will allow the pump to clear the gearbox from below and to the side, and still clear the alternator bracket from above. If I change brackets to clear one, I run into the other and vice versa.

The alternator brackets all seem to utilize the lower bolt hole location on the head, which is where the pump or its bracket interferes. The PS belt has to run on the forward groove of the 3-groove crank pulley so the pump also has to clear the alternator belt routing; I can't run both the PS and alt on the same belt.

The car has a BeCool aluminum radiator and dual Spal fans, so a Front Runner or other serpentine system is out for me, no room without totally reworking the radiator brackets and fans. Plus I'd prefer not to have to go the swap meet route with the existing compressor, alternator, water pump, fans, brackets, etc.

Anyone out there been down this road and know which route to take? Suggestions very much appreciated.

[ZZ430]

Would this work?

[TitoJones]

You forgot one of the best ones out there-

The Vintage Air Front Runner system. That will take care of most people.

Tyler

[BobB66SS]

ZZ430 -

It may be possible, it's hard to tell from that angle but my steering box pops up directly beneath that spot. I need something that mounts almost straight out from the 3 mounting bosses on the front of the block. I'll check with Bill's, thanks for the direction.

Tyler -

I did look at the Front Runner as noted in my original post, as well as serpentine set-ups from Zoops and Billet Specialties. I only have about 5.5" from the front of the heads to the radiator, well shy of what a Front Runner takes. Even a radiator bracket mod wouldn't make up the difference. For a mid-size car this engine bay doesn't leave much room with a big block. Packaging the 2-1/8" headers around the steering and clutch linkages was a real joy even with the option of laying them in with the motor in or out.

[ZZ430]

Bob, Bill's has all kinds of tight fitting brackets, I found that one at a street rod shop.

The pic I posted is a 71 Corvette with a 461 BB SWP. I had problems with belts too because of the 8-71 blower drive.

I'm not sure about your Chevelle but maybe Bill's can help you.

[MrQuick]

Hi Bob,
I havent seen anything that would help you at all. You are going to have to go with the typeII and have a bracket made to rotate and possibly lower the pump to clear everything. Can you post pictures of the space you have to work with?

[BobB66SS]

Vince -

That's the conclusion I keep coming to as well. The DSE setup almost works except when I take into account that I'll have to cut down the bracket-to-block spacers for my short water pump, the top of the bracket interferes with the alternator bracket. I need something that does not protrude above the top of the block at the head. I can't rework the DSE bracket, the design doesn't leave me enough room to relocate the mounting holes or the adjustment slot. I'll have to have one fabbed that meets my setup.

Here's a couple of shots to give you an idea of the packaging. They're not that great, it's tough to get in there at all, never mind get a camera in a spot to take a decent shot. I tried to give some perspective on the relative amount of room in both the vertical and horizontal planes.

11741

11742

Any other advice is surely welcome.

P.S. - -no wisecracks please about the timing pointer, I wanted to smack my engine builder when I saw that. It looks even worse now that I see it in a photo.

[BADVELLE]

Bob - First of all, I remember seeing your car in the DSE shop back in Brighton, very nice. Secondly, I would also go with the Type II piece and then custom make the bracket. Let us see it went it is done.

[MrQuick]

Thats not too bad. Have a bracket to rotate the pump, fixed mount to the block, run a shorter belt to drive both PS and alternator with the alternator acting as the adjuster.

Set the bracket thickness to make up the distance for proper belt alignment. Bracket mounts to the block with counter sunk holes and longer bolts through the pump into threaded holes in that bracket.

nice weekend project.

[BobB66SS]

Thanks, BADVELLE, what brought you from MO to MI? Did I see your car at DSE? The car's come even further since DSE last had it. New 461 inch motor, coilovers, smoothed firewall, the list keeps growing. I think we'll all agree they're never really 'done'.

I've been looking the option of running the PS and alternator off one belt, or even possibly running an idler to reroute the alternator belt routing if it would somehow help. The problem is the overall mounted length of the Type II pump and pulley won't allow it to run on the rearward-most pulley groove where the alternator runs. The assembled pump and pulley is already about 4-3/8" long from the back of the pump to the centerline of the pulley, and that's with no bracket. I have less than 4" from the face of the block (not the face of the mounting bosses) to the centerline of the alternator pulley.

The opposite alternative is to move the alternator out to the second groove and run them both on that groove, but that makes a mess out of my compressor and alternator brackets trying to accommodate that.

[MrQuick]

how about a picture of the whole belt and accessory set up. can you re-align the ac pulley to the rear groove and then the alt to the front groove? spacers and shims?

[BobB66SS]

Looked at that too, but there isn't enough stock on the AC bracket to machine off. If I remove the 3/4" needed to move the AC from the fwd groove to the rear groove, the bracket has no structural integrity.

I'm starting to understand why there's no off the shelf parts available, every option has an ugly consequence.

[Bill Howell]

I'm starting to understand why there's no off the shelf parts available, every option has an ugly consequence.

Really?????? You mean parts don't fit like everyone thinks? lol

[BobB66SS]

It's

[BobB66SS]

It's not that the parts don't fit (we all know to expect them not to), it's that there are no parts available to try to fit. All of the major vendors I've talked to seem to be aware of this particular packaging problem but none have a solution for it.

[BobB66SS]

Looks like March may have a solution. They make an "outward mount" serpentine kit that allows me to use the compressor and alternator I already have and has a Type II p/s pump bracket that will clear the gearbox. The kit evidently isn't widely used and Summit, Jeg's, etc. don't stock it. I can get it direct from March. One-stop shopping for everything else needed for the install --remote reservoir, hoses, fittings, reverse rotation w/p, hardware, the works.

Found out March routes your call to a tech rep by your zip code. :confused: Apparently the first time I talked to them I got a rookie tech rep who didn't know what fit and what didn't. Had a specific rep recommended to me by a speed shop, asked for him directly, and now a potential fix.

BeCool will alter the radiator mounting brackets to move the radiator closer to the core support to give me the that little extra room I could use for the w/p pulley to adequately clear the electric fans.

We'll see how this goes. Been down this road too many times to sleep easy that this will be the fix. Will be happy to have this concluded, wrestling 245 front tires thru a 14" Grant Wheel and a p/s gearbox without the p/s is a workout and makes low speed traffic turns entertaining.

[Air Daddy]

If all else failed you could always get one of these……
I’m sure it’s $$$$$!!!!!

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=210/home_id=210/mode=cat/cat210.htm
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[BADVELLE]

[quote=BobB66SS]Thanks, BADVELLE, what brought you from MO to MI? Did I see your car at DSE? The car's come even further since DSE last had it. New 461 inch motor, coilovers, smoothed firewall, the list keeps growing. I think we'll all agree they're never really 'done'.

I've been looking the option of running the PS and alternator off one belt, or even possibly running an idler to reroute the alternator belt routing if it would somehow help. The problem is the overall mounted length of the Type II pump and pulley won't allow it to run on the rearward-most pulley groove where the alternator runs. The assembled pump and pulley is already about 4-3/8" long from the back of the pump to the centerline of the pulley, and that's with no bracket. I have less than 4" from the face of the block (not the face of the mounting bosses) to the centerline of the alternator pulley.

GM brought me to MI and a newer company at the time (1999) brought me back to MO. I met Kyle through another friend of mine that work at Truck Product Center/GM. I have stayed in touch with Kyle since then, actually going to see them next week in Charlotte. My car was never in the shop (torn apart in my shop though), just saw a lot of cars since he started behind the house in the garage and have given them some business along the way. Kyle and Stacy and the crew are very good people and they are successful for a reason, not just great product/ideas, but great people. Anyway, any newer pic's of the car, I looked it over really good when I saw it at the shop, but it has been awhile.

[Steve Chryssos]

Bob,
Contact these people. I expect that you will need to replace one or more of your existing brackets to accomplish both your fitment and alignment goals. Jones makes every conceivable bracket, spacer, pulley, belt type and adjuster imaginable.

That said, their catalog can be very confusing until you figure out how to use it. From there, it is extremely helpful. Go do the website and download the pdf of their catalog (17 megs!!) Since the crew at Jones is made up of predominantly race car people, they don't have a lot of tolerance for stupid questions. They don't care if you have March, Zoops, etc--they want measurements. Study the catalog carefully and then call them with specific questions.

http://www.jonesracingproducts.com

[BobB66SS]

Steve -

Thanks for the insight on Jones. I'm an engineer myself so I'm all about measurements and numbers. I'll check into their options.

AirDaddy -

During my engineering days I was involved in several programs to put electric steering into a production car. They are more widely used in Europe and a couple of Saturn models here use them but I'm not a big fan. The feel and feedback is really vague and if they go out you risk having the steering wheel locked into one position. You can backdrive the motors under a no power situation but if the rotor inside the motor gets jammed, it can get ugly.

Craig -

100% agree with your thoughts on the DSE crew. Formerly having them 5 minutes from me was great. I even tried to talk my wife into buying Kyle and Stacy's house when they moved. My first work with them was in the garage behind their house and kept up right up to their relo to NC (I actually helped them load up the semi's). Their products are first rate but it's their attitude toward their customers that makes them a great company.

Here's a few shots of the car. The underhood pic was taken during one of the iterations of trying to find a bracket setup to fit so it's not finished.