New shop.........."build"

[traut811]

This build thread isn't for a pt ride, its actually somewhere for them to go. I've read through so many threads on this site and others trying to get ideas on what to do for this or that. I figured I'd try to post progress as we go and maybe it'll help someone out going through their own process.

My setup is currently a 2 car attached garage, with a 2-story detached (26'x26' upstairs and downstairs) Upstairs has 2 garage doors and you drive around back where there is a single wide door to get in. Basement houses all of the machining stuff - lathe, Mill, sheet metal brake, blast cabinet, welders, plasma, and 2 post lift I posted on here previously about. Upstairs is more of a "cleaner" place to do assembly, wiring, or just hang out. When we bought the house, it had a 24x40x14'tall old horse barn that I ended up tearing to put a new shop in it's place. I just needed more room for the "stuff".

Going with a 48' deep by 60' wide with 14' tall ceilings. Three 14' wide by 12' tall doors across the front and only one floor drain with a 6' sweep behind the left door, to keep the rest of the floor as flat as possible.

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I will have at least one 4 post lift that will primarily be used for storage and need it high enough to fit ideally my 3/4 ton 2500hd under, but if not at least put the jeep under. I'll get into this shortly as I need to pick out a lift soon so I can determine electrical requirements.

Concrete:
Based on varying elevation, it was tough to get the size I wanted. It required 9ft of fill in the back corners and sides. The contractors did a 9ft wall, and I ended up backfilling all but about 2 feet of this to make it look more natural. Between my dad hauling 40ish tandem loads of rock in and both of us pushing dirt from the field nearby for 8 hours each, it turned out pretty good.
The floor is 5" thick with rebar on 2' centers. I did not do heat in the floor. It was pretty straightforward, but did run plumbing beforehand for the floor drain (3") and a 4" for septic if needed. Both run out the side about 3' down below ground level. I will tie into this later.

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Plumbing:
3/4" PEX was ran from the house down to the area (220' or so), where I split and added a frost proof hydrant outside and split to run a line through the concrete to the back corner for a simple 5'x5' bathroom.
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Electrical:
I'm still struggling here... I want it to be bring but definitely don't want "hot spots" that seem to come with improperly positioned LEDs. We'll use the "high bay" style LED lights, likely Lithonia ALO13 REBL series. They're about $130/each and can't decide between a 4x4 grid of them, or 3x5. Playing with online lighting calculators now to get lumen/sq ft readings. It's pretty cool these are offered.
We'll need power ran for the following:
Compressor (220v 40A)
Lift (220V 30A, or 110V 30A depending on mfg)
1 220V 50A receptacle for welder/plasma
1 30A for camper
2 ceiling fans (I'd love to have a big ass fan or something, but can't justify the cost). Will likely just do 2x hunter industrial fans
receptacles for each overhead door opener
several receptacles alone the wall
wall pack lights on exterior.

Building:
I won't have anything to do with this part. Definitely something best for me to leave to the pros than even attempt. 2x6 construction with 2x6 over 2x6 trusses (3-1/2:12 pitch) with metal tin roof and walls.

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[Larry Callahan]

Oh this is going to be awesome! Thanks for sharing.

[dhutton]

That will be a great shop!

[dontlifttoshift]

My shop is 15.5' to the ceiling and the highbays didn't work out for me. No matter what we had shadows that I hated. It's too much light from one source and at a 14' ceiling height you will have even less spread than I did. They aren't servicable so when one fails you have to replace the whole thing........and it probably won't match the ones you have. After 7 years with those I had replaced about half of them. (these are on about 50 hours a week) At that point I just replaced them all with T8 fixtures with LED tubes. The light is much more even, I can swap a bulb on a ladder without any tools, and it wasn't anymore money in materials than the high bays.

It's a lot of fixtures to put up but it will go fast on a scissor lift in an empty shop.

I have one Hunter Industrial fan and it's awesome. I need some more. Also be sure to plan your fan placement so that it doesn't cover the lights, that can be super irritating.

There is gobs of information here. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/light-fixture-layout-collections.289441/

[Vimes]

For lighting in my shop I just put 4 foot T8 dual flourescent fixtures on each joist, and used 4ft LED tubes for the lighting. It meant removing the ballast from the fixtures, but there's plenty of light in there and no hot spots anywhere. I like the 3500K tubes because the light is no different than the incandescents I grew up with. SuperbrightLEDs sells the tubes in bulk packs. I went this way because I didn't want to worry about a fixture with hardwired LEDs not being available when they burned out, but there are billions of T8 4ft fixtures out there - replacements will always be available.

[Larry Callahan]

As long as we are talking about lighting.

I can't tell you how happy I am with what I did. They are LED's and can use a 0-10v dimmer that I added to my home automation. I can turn them up or down with voice commands.

Everyone who walks into my garage when the lights are all the way up has almost the same reaction. Holy S!

They are bright enough that with a car on a lift I don't need any extra lighting under the car except into the deep crevices.

I have 9 of these LED 2' WILDCAT 110 Bay Shop Light 14,300 Lumens from Primelights.

When you walk into the garage after having been outside in dark it's almost painful for a moment when they are at 100% brightness

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[traut811]

All - I appreciate the kind words and feedback.
Dontlifttoshift - I 100% understand where you are coming from with the "hot spots". This was my biggest concern. My brother is an electrician and uses the Lithonia REBL https://www.acuitybrands.com/products/detail/2153853/lithonia-lighting/rebl-led-high-bay/rebl-led-high-bay in almost every shop he wires and said over a thousand lights he's only had callback on 2 that failed, which they immediately replaced under warranty. The ALO13 is rated for 12-16'. They have a "wide distribution" option, so I am playing around with lumen calculators for this. That's where I'd lean towards a lot of lights that are less bright to get coverage without shadowing. I just did 9x LED "wafer lights" to mimic cans in the house garage, and it certainly is better than what I had but does still cast shadows.
Side note, any idea what Hunter fan you have? I was going to get two of the Hunter Downtown in 72" as seen here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hunter-Downtown-72-in-6-Speed-Ceiling-Fan-in-Matte-Black-with-Wall-Control-For-Patios-or-Bedrooms-51592/323891033 My concern and yes definitely staying away from the lighting spacing so you don't get that flicker from blade path being under the light.

Vimes - My detached garage upstairs I did 16x 2-bulb 4ft fixtures with the LED tubes. It took forever but I split the tombstones on every fixture to wire up bulb 1/bulb 2 individually on 2 separate switches. That way I get 50% lighting with 100% floor coverage or hit the other switch and get 100% lighting. This kept me from having to do every other fixture or something where lighting wouldn't be even. I don't prefer the look of the 4ft fixtures, but honestly yes, they're probably the better way to go as I am completely happy with them. It would probably save me some money as well. Good point on the product availability if/when they go out.

Larry - awesome setup! Looks like a medical lab in there. I assume those are 6 bulb high bays with a diffuser panel over it? They look really nice, and don't appear to give harsh lighting at all.
I've got some work to do in now comparing the REBL to what I'd need with 4 ft tubes.

Here is where I was at with the wide distribution REBL ALO13's:
(leaning more towards the 4x4 though, if I don't do tubes, as it would create a natural happy space for two ceiling fans between the left and right side, front to back.
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The next thing on the list is picking out a 4 post. Still working on this one. I am between Bendpak, Challenger, Advantage and Rotary (Forward Lift, Direct Lift). I know what I want, just waiting on prices. Sheesh these have gone up in price over the last few years..

[dontlifttoshift]

Hunter Trak fan. It's outdoor rated and that helps keep the dust out. I had to order it from Home Depot https://www.hunterfan.com/products/ceiling-fans-trak-outdoor-96-inches-120v-com016?variant=41685712797828

Those Lithonia lights look great, like really great, and their layout tool is fantastic. If those were available in 2017 I may have a different opinion, or if I had known about them last year before I went back to tubes. I still think the tubes put out more even light.......especially with lower ceiling heights, at the cost of requiring more fixtures. I replaced 25 12,000 lumen High bays with 128 4' LED tubes in a 36x58 space and it is better in every single way. It was about a 20% increase in lumens output but now every corner is lit as well as the middle. The corners and walls are where your benches and equipment are.

If you decide on the High bays, I would for sure stay with ALO13 and probably run them at 12k lumens. To get 100 fc you will need about 25 fixtures in a 5x5 pattern.

[traut811]

Hunter Trak fan. It's outdoor rated and that helps keep the dust out. I had to order it from Home Depot https://www.hunterfan.com/products/ceiling-fans-trak-outdoor-96-inches-120v-com016?variant=41685712797828

Those Lithonia lights look great, like really great, and their layout tool is fantastic. If those were available in 2017 I may have a different opinion, or if I had known about them last year before I went back to tubes. I still think the tubes put out more even light.......especially with lower ceiling heights, at the cost of requiring more fixtures. I replaced 25 12,000 lumen High bays with 128 4' LED tubes in a 36x58 space and it is better in every single way. It was about a 20% increase in lumens output but now every corner is lit as well as the middle. The corners and walls are where your benches and equipment are.

If you decide on the High bays, I would for sure stay with ALO13 and probably run them at 12k lumens. To get 100 fc you will need about 25 fixtures in a 5x5 pattern.

Thanks for the link on the fan.

Did you pull your garage door wall lights back some so they weren't covered when the doors were open, or just do even spacing? You mentioned 100fc- is this what you shot for? I did research what you "need" and numbers were all over the place, with 20fc min and most recommending 40-50.
Maybe I missed it, did you do 128 single bulb fixtures or were they 2- or 4- bulb units? Just realized I need to dodge garage door tracks when figuring layout also.

[dontlifttoshift]

I find the 60fc number is for general shop lighting with the intention to use task lighting everywhere. It's a business and I think that plan sucks. There's a work light on the band saw, we don't even turn it on anymore.

All lighting layout was done without thinking about the doors. If the doors are open, there is sunlight, nighttime lighting with the doors open isn't a concern for me.

I mostly 8', 4 bulb fixtures with a handful of 4' fixtures to get around garage door tracks and other things already on the ceiling.

Hot tip, make sure to enter inside dimensions in the lighting calculator.

[traut811]

I find the 60fc number is for general shop lighting with the intention to use task lighting everywhere. It's a business and I think that plan sucks. There's a work light on the band saw, we don't even turn it on anymore.

All lighting layout was done without thinking about the doors. If the doors are open, there is sunlight, nighttime lighting with the doors open isn't a concern for me.

I mostly 8', 4 bulb fixtures with a handful of 4' fixtures to get around garage door tracks and other things already on the ceiling.

Hot tip, make sure to enter inside dimensions in the lighting calculator.

Yes, walls take up a foot total of that space.
Deep down A part of me still wants to do the 16x wide beam UFOs, and have dropped down lighting that is maybe 8ft off the ground on the side where the work bench would be for detail work. Will play around with calculators more later tonight.

[Raszaron]

I wish I had the space to build a shop... very awesome! I am currently remodelling my home garage (3+1 tandem with an inset -approx. 970sqft total with 12' tall ceilings). I am realizing how much of a pain in the arse it is to re-organize all my crap (tools, equipment, parts, etc.) I have accumulated over the last 10 years in this garage! Take advantage of the clean slate!

I can at most fit only one complete car in addition to one completely torn apart car in my garage at one time.