Need whole new brake package for 1970 A-body, looking for input

[CreepinDeth]

Greetings fellow car mod junkies!!!

Alright so I've had my 1970 Olds 442 sitting in limbo for a decade and I'm finally putting the final touches on the build.
Got an LSx / T-56 swap entering it's final stages, and I'm looking at the brakes now to figure out what I want to do.
The purpose of the car is just a family cruiser, with plans for 2 turbo's afterwards.
Nothing track racing oriented or anything.

I ended up removing the weak Olds "O" faux 12 bolt (Actually a 10 bolt) and putting in a Chevy 12 bolt with 3.73's and disc brakes
I got off another member here like 10-12 years ago. So I already have discs on rear, but I have factory discs on the front and
I want to update them to something a bit more current and fresh. (*I forget what brakes on the rear to be honest)

I did a C5 brake swap on my 78 Camaro that also got an LS swap many years ago , I believe from Tobin @ Kore3.
and I was very happy with it, so I was debating a Kore3 C6 setup, or something else for my Olds.

Just testing the waters here to see if anyone has any input on a relatively reasonable upgrade that won't be BAER cost level.
I've looked at Hydratech, CPP, Kore3, and various others but just not 100% sure if vacuum is best or go Hydraboost.

To start off, I'm likely gonna swap to the spindles to give it a simpler approach long term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ltk2O7FOQk

Hydratech VS CPP ??
https://www.hydratechbraking.com/GM_A_Body.html
https://www.classicperform.com/Store2/Hydraulic-Brake-Assist-Systems.htm

Kore3 front upgrade
https://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10336-03

Thoughts , input, ??
So far I've looked at so many options, I've got over-analysis paralysis and no clue which way to go.
Just looking to get at least Corvette brakes at the bare minimum for extra stopping power over factory, but interested if Hydraboost is the most cost efficient

[79 Camaro]

If you have good vacuum I would keep the vacuum brake booster. If not I've used Hydratech and they worked well.
C5/6 brakes I've used on a number of projects. Always worked well.
With a vacuum booster I use a C5 booster and 2002 Camaro master. Wilwood adj prop valve.

[Jk918]

What i like about the C5/C6 option is many pad options that are easily obtainable, that can make a difference in performance, plus could always upgrade to the Z51 option if you have the wheel clearance.

[232_ray]

I’m selling my Baer 6S kit if you’re interested. Full front and rear kits plus I’ll throw in a Baer remaster for manual brakes which was the plan for my build. If interested message your you direct contact info and we can talk

[boss_hoss]

Another think to look at if you want to add a bit of tech to your braking system is going with a Bosch ibooster instead of Vacuum, or Hydroboost. It's more expensive that the standard Vacuum set up but less than a Hydroboost. You can get an ibooster out most new hybrids or EV but the most common are out of TESLAs or a newer Honda CRV. There's a couple of companies that sell various parts like a simplified harness and firewall adapter. Not a whole lot of guys running it but the reviews I have read are generally positive. I know Andrew has one on his GTO. I'm planning on doing that upgrade at some point myself

[SPG]

Another think to look at if you want to add a bit of tech to your braking system is going with a Bosch ibooster instead of Vacuum, or Hydroboost. It's more expensive that the standard Vacuum set up but less than a Hydroboost. You can get an ibooster out most new hybrids or EV but the most common are out of TESLAs or a newer Honda CRV. There's a couple of companies that sell various parts like a simplified harness and firewall adapter. Not a whole lot of guys running it but the reviews I have read are generally positive. I know Andrew has one on his GTO. I'm planning on doing that upgrade at some point myself

I am putting one in my camaro because my engine doesn't make a lot of vacuum, seemed easier than doing hydroboost
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2024/06/AP1GczN9vP1_EgwSv8cHpl9s9a5S0ioPQrGAv25D-1.jpg
Obviously my car isn't running yet, but I haven't heard anyone complain about it yet. I bought mine off of ebay for $200 from a 18 accord

[CreepinDeth]

Tobin called me yesterday and caught me just waking up at noon (3rd shift) but really gave me ALOT of great info to work off of.
He recommended I go with a 9" dual diaphragm C3 style vacuum booster, and 1" bore, likely Wilwood master.

I'm not 100% sure what rear calipers I have on the 12 bolt Chevy that's on there I bought, but he said 11-11.5" rotors,
it will balance out fine with the C5/C6 calipers. I would like to go bigger, but right now I just need to get the car back on the road.

Right now I'm looking at these combo's unless someone else has a better recommendation ???
I have a firewall adaptor plate behind where the booster goes to mount my LS / T56 swap slave cylinder on the firewall.
https://piratejack.net/booster-conversion-kits/gm/
https://piratejack.net/booster-conversion-kits/gm/
213811

What i like about the C5/C6 option is many pad options that are easily obtainable,
that can make a difference in performance, plus could always upgrade to the Z51 option if you have the wheel clearance.

I really love that Z51 (funny it's called that) caliper, but unfortunately I'm staggered 17" front and 18" rear with Foose rims.
I can't get them to clear, but I really like those calipers.



I’m selling my Baer 6S kit if you’re interested.
Full front and rear kits plus I’ll throw in a Baer remaster for manual brakes which was the plan for my build.
If interested message your you direct contact info and we can talk

Wow that's a huge caliper, and man I'd be all over that but I'd have to upgrade my rims again to fit those unfortunately.
Thanks for the offer.

[CreepinDeth]

Since I'm going to have to upgrade and begin doing the front suspension also, anyone have recommendations
on A/F/X spindles and UCA / LCA's to go with ??? I'm not going to autocross the car or track race it.

I did the whole Hotchkis TVS on my 78 Camaro with full overhaul SC&C UCA's, etc, and it's rigid as hell.
This one I want more coosh, as a family cruiser to play around with and AC I already have a Vintage Air setup on standby

I've seen some OPGI tubular UCA / LCA's for cheap, but not sure how the geometry works out and no reviews.
I'm not looking to break the bank for a super track car, just something to improve from factory and allow for modern brakes
with say the C5/6/7 sealed hubs on it.

[Hotwire]

If it's going to be a family cruiser, you do NOT need to go with C5+ brakes, that's just unneeded cost. I built my car on a keep it off the wife's radar budget and use as many well engineered stock parts as I could.

I'm running 2000ish Camaro brakes front and rear on my Chevelle and haven't found the edge of them yet. I pulled the brakes (rotors, calipers, pads, abutment brackets) from a V6 Camaro at the local LKQ pull a part complete w/ the parking brake cables. Got CPP billet hubs off craigslist, mounting brackets off ebay, used NiCop 3/16" tubing, C3 Corvette 1 1/8" master, and a wilwood prop valve on the rear lines. I'm using stock camaro rubber brake lines from napa, and have been wearing the car out with 0 issues. I did also get a hydroboost setup off an 05 tahoe at the same pull a part, bolted right in to my LS swap along with a quick ratio late model steering box, even using the tahoe hoses. Notice all the stock parts? If something goes wrong I can go to the nearest parts store and get replacements instead of waiting for it to ship from somewhere. I have $550 total in the braking system including a new caliper that was frozen, fluid, hoses, tubing, etc.

For suspension, SPC fully adjustable uppers, stock spindles, ebay tubular lower, proforged 0.9" taller upper ball joints, 0.5" lower balljoints, 1 5/16" Hellwig sway bar, QA1 double adjustable coilovers w/ 450lb springs. 2002 Camaro SS 17x9 wheels too.

Just went on an 88 mile trip yesterday with my daughter through the twisty backroads in NC/VA and didn't think twice about the brakes. Did a couple of 100+ pulls, lots of hard cornering, and had a great time while sweating my butt off. My pedal is a touch on the sensitive side, a 1" bore would give you a little more feel and leg power needed to fully lock it up, I have to thread the needle with the pedal. (also using Napa ceramix pads)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2024/06/50436508482_c0cc2fae80_k-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2024/06/52031876898_dccb66f702_k-1.jpg

[JPnTX]

213823213824213825

I use and highly recommend the iBooster. A body kits in stock and ready to ship

[130fe]

JPnTX, what kits are you referring to?

[JPnTX]

Not sure if it is permitted for me to mention here or not but my company, Retrofit Innovations, sells application specific turn key iBooster retrofit kits. retrofitinnovations.com

[79 Camaro]

A couple of pics of my C5/C6 brake swaps. 18" wheels on the 80 Camaro. 20" wheels on the 68 C10. C5 13" rotors and calipers on the 80.
C5 14" rotors and C5 calipers on the 68.
Many years ago I used C5 13" rotors and calipers on a 79 Camaro. It was tight but no clearance issues.

[Hotwire]

I use and highly recommend the iBooster. A body kits in stock and ready to ship

Are there any being put to use or are they all on show cars?

[CreepinDeth]

Definitely NOT interested in the complexity of iBoosters
ive watched the breakdown videos. Vacuum boosted soooo much simpler

I had no idea they came in 10th gen Accords as well as Tesla 3 & Y


If you have good vacuum I would keep the vacuum brake booster. If not I've used Hydratech and they worked well.
C5/6 brakes I've used on a number of projects. Always worked well.
With a vacuum booster I use a C5 booster and 2002 Camaro master. Wilwood adj prop valve.
I actually like the idea of keeping everything simple and easy to source OEM
Good lookin engine bays and setups

Are all the 2002 Canaro Master cylinders 1” bore??
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/agb-mc390455/make/chevrolet/model/camaro/year/2002
I only ask because the AC Delco OEM doesnt list it
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-18m971/make/chevrolet/model/camaro/year/2002

Trying to verify the C5 brake booster info now
is this a 9” dual diaphragm with an adjustable length to fit various cars??
Trying to verify force output to compare, and nor sure how to match it
All to my 70 A body, brackets, length, etc

probably sounds like easy questions but Im a rookie with all this
so bear with me guys

[JPnTX]

Are there any being put to use or are they all on show cars?

213828213829213830

None of the pictures I posted are of show cars, all are drivers, but I’ll pass your kind comments along to those customers! One of these is my own, 10k miles on the install and driven regularly.

[JPnTX]

Definitely NOT interested in the complexity of iBoosters
ive watched the breakdown videos. Vacuum boosted soooo much simpler

I had no idea they came in 10th gen Accords as well as Tesla 3 & Y


I actually like the idea of keeping everything simple and easy to source OEM
Good lookin engine bays and setups

Are all the 2002 Canaro Master cylinders 1” bore??
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/agb-mc390455/make/chevrolet/model/camaro/year/2002
I only ask because the AC Delco OEM doesnt list it
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-18m971/make/chevrolet/model/camaro/year/2002

Trying to verify the C5 brake booster info now


is this a 9” dual diaphragm with an adjustable length to fit various cars??
Trying to verify force output to compare, and nor sure how to match it
All to my 70 A body, brackets, length, etc

probably sounds like easy questions but Im a rookie with all this
so bear with me guys

While I don't disagree that trying to piece together an iBooster install on your own can be a daunting task, installing a vehicle specific kit is very simple, literally 3 wires and no fabrication. The difference in braking performance compared to vacuum and hydroboost is substantial.

[CreepinDeth]

While I don't disagree that trying to piece together an iBooster install on your own can be a daunting task, installing a vehicle specific kit is very simple, literally 3 wires and no fabrication. The difference in braking performance compared to vacuum and hydroboost is substantial.
If thats the case, I can not feel it
I daily drive a 10th gen Accord with the Bosch iBooster in summer til winter

I was completely unaware of it until this thread, and some research into Bosch iBoosters
Apparently the Tesla 3, Y and 10th gen Accords use them and its the “cheaper” source for them

I had a 9th gen Accord for a summer work DD
I can honestly tell you from first hand seat experience I didnt feel a difference

I verified this guys statements on an iBooster forum, and it was legit
He also does a physical breakdown of both, and I think its not for me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SRZ8XDNz2vU


Prefer to stick to the KISS method

[79 Camaro]

I can confirm the C5 booster push rod is not adjustable. I can't say in regards to the 2002 Camaro master bore size wise. I just go with a NAPA unit.

[JPnTX]

If thats the case, I can not feel it
I daily drive a 10th gen Accord with the Bosch iBooster in summer til winter

I was completely unaware of it until this thread, and some research into Bosch iBoosters
Apparently the Tesla 3, Y and 10th gen Accords use them and its the “cheaper” source for them

I had a 9th gen Accord for a summer work DD
I can honestly tell you from first hand seat experience I didnt feel a difference

I verified this guys statements on an iBooster forum, and it was legit
He also does a physical breakdown of both, and I think its not for me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SRZ8XDNz2vU


Prefer to stick to the KISS method

While I understand your point, I would counter that comparing Gen 9 and Gen 10 Accords (with and without iBoosters) is not the same as comparing a 1970 Cutlass with a vacuum booster vs. with a iBooster. There is proprietary software loaded into the iBooster in OE applications that customizes pedal feel and makes it play nice with abs and collision avoidance systems. None of that is present in a retrofit application, only the pedal position sensor is utilized. In a retrofit application the difference in braking performance isn’t just noticeable, it’s dramatic.

[CreepinDeth]

I can confirm the C5 booster push rod is not adjustable.
I can't say in regards to the 2002 Camaro master bore size wise. I just go with a NAPA unit.

Yeah I did some more looking into it, and that's the end result I discovered as well. The C3 vette's is adjustable.
I just ordered a 9" dual diaphragm for the GM A-Body with a Wilwood 1" bore master & prop valve from Pirate Jacks.

My C5 calipers arrived today, along with my CPP A/F/X spindles.
Now I just need to get the rest delivered so I can begin ripping it apart and rebuilding.

Thanks for the input

While I understand your point, I would counter that comparing Gen 9 and Gen 10 Accords (with and without iBoosters) is not the same as comparing a 1970 Cutlass with a vacuum booster vs. with a iBooster. There is proprietary software loaded into the iBooster in OE applications that customizes pedal feel and makes it play nice with abs and collision avoidance systems. None of that is present in a retrofit application, only the pedal position sensor is utilized. In a retrofit application the difference in braking performance isn’t just noticeable, it’s dramatic.

Fair enough, I will just wait for the proof to be shown in autocross or something along the lines of race tested and proven over X time.
Forgive me if I'm just anti-tech in this regard with all the over-complicated systems I've got to deal with daily,

I just bought and sold a new Hybrid SUV I was testing out for 3 years.
Just sold it because of the overcomplicated electronics, I got rid of it and went back to an Accord for DD

I'm noticing a pattern of overcomplicated electronics, failures and costly repairs. I want to K.I.S.S. my setup with a multi-decade proven setup for now.

[Hotwire]

None of the pictures I posted are of show cars, all are drivers, but I’ll pass your kind comments along to those customers! One of these is my own, 10k miles on the install and driven regularly.

Understood, didn't know if the units were actually being used or they were just installed in expensive furniture. Do you know of anyone using them in recreational racing events?

[JPnTX]

Understood, didn't know if the units were actually being used or they were just installed in expensive furniture. Do you know of anyone using them in recreational racing events?

Bosch makes millions of iBoosters every year. They are incredibly robust and likely up to the challenge, but my experience is that assisted braking on track cars is not optimal. I don’t personally know of any of our customers that are tracking their cars other than in a straight line but it wouldn’t surprise me if some do.

[CreepinDeth]

What do you guys recommend for the front brake frame mounted hard line to flex line mounts??
These are the OEM ones that I took off and theyre all jacked up

Need a new hard to flex line option to secure to frame
Whats some good recommendations??
Also any preference for flex lines for rhe C5 upgrades?

Im not the best at knowing which brake line sizes to go with either …lol
Any guidance would be appreciated. C5 front, Ls fbody rears, and 1” bore master 9” Dual booster
213984

[130fe]

Are you removing the stock distribution block (on inside of frame)? You can run the front (MC) to a T and from there to the front lines. For the rear, just plumb in an inline prop valve to the rear lines. I would call Tobin at Kore3 and get the stainless flex lines from him.

[chacho44]

Can you shoot me the link for the setup for an A body? I have manual brakes with a wilwood big brake kit and can't stand it anymore. Also if you have and pictures of the setup installed on a A body preferably 71 chevelle. Thank you

[minni]

213828213829213830

None of the pictures I posted are of show cars, all are drivers, but I’ll pass your kind comments along to those customers! One of these is my own, 10k miles on the install and driven regularly.

Kickass setup; is anyone on this board using it ? Anyone have a build thread or installation video ?