Building a Poncho 400

[79TransAm]

I'm planning on building a 400ci for my 79. Heres a simple list of the bolt ons and all:

Holley Street Avenger 770cfm Carb
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold(Port Matched To Heads)
KRE Aluminum Heads 85cc Ported for 290cfm @ 28" w/ 2.11
Doug's D-Port Headers
Pypes 3" Header Back X-Pipe Exhaust
Comp Cams Cam:
Cam Kit #: K-51-246-4
RPM: 2,500 - 6,500
INT Dur @ .050: 248
EXH Dur @ .050: 248
INT Lift w/ 1.5: .525
EXH Lift w/ 1.5: .525
LSA: 110*
Comp Cams Alum 1.65 RR's
Comp Cams Chromemoly Pushrods
Sealed Power Forged Pistons(.040)
Reconditioned Stock Rods & Crank

This is basically the first step of the engine, other odds and ends of course. I'm also planning on eventually throwing on a procharger. How do you think this cam will work with the above, and then also when the super charger is on. Would you recommend a diff. cam when in throw on the s/c? I know ill have to get a blow through carb when i throw on the s/c, other than that what would you recommend? Thnx in advance.

[Zee]

If you haven't already done so, I would read Jim Hand's book and follow one of the 400 ci recipies in the back of the book. My only comments would be without an idea of what gear, trans or usage is intended for the vehicle, it would be difficult to recommend that much cam. I think you would also be better off using the 75cc heads. Also, IMHO, I would reconsider selecting stock cast rods and heavy TRW pistons.

[79TransAm]

I'm planning on the TKO600 with the .82 OD, poss. 4.11's but prob. 3.73's. Sunday driving and I'd like to run it on a street course track if I could.

[critter]

Since you intend to run the KRE heads, why not contact Kauffman about a cam selection? I can tell you that single pattern cams do OK but most Pontiac builders favor an asymetric (dual pattern) cam to give the exhaust side a little help.

When you get to the point of forced induction you're looking at another sizable chunk of $$$. That cam needs a swap and the carb will have to be converted to a blow through type or you'll need fuel injection. I'm guessing that's why you've chosen to save money with that Avenger.

You do know that there aren't any folks selling a "kit" for superchargers to fit the traditional Pontiac engine, right? Pontiac Dude (Ken Keefer) does have a kit he sells where he fabs up all the brackets and stuff you'll need. That's the closest thing to a kit I've seen.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/kensspeedandmachineshop.html

[rohrt]

I concure with Critter

There are several reads out there that have shown that going to a bigger cam like you listed didn't make any more power then a common 041 style cam aka RAIV.

You said you want a fun driver, then in my opinion think about a stroker kit for the 400. There are several people on the classicalpontiac site with very streetable combo's that are getting 500hp with 550 lbs/ft or torque.
My brother is running a 68 conv GTO (heavy) with a buttler stroker kit and ported 6x-4 heads 825 deamon, Performer RPM, Dougs header, RAIV cam and is in the mid 12s, with a 200 shot of NOS he is in the high 11s.

[79TransAm]

ill take a look. the other thing i was looking at was building a 455 into a 474 stroker. I was also talking bout pontiac dudes kit. And the RAIV cam i was also thinking bout while on comps site. thnx for the tips guys.

[Zee]

From Hands book KRE would likely recommend Crower 60916, 221/226 @ 050, 112 lsa, .500/.516 @ 1.65 or like mentioned above Crower's version of the RA IV cam, pn 60919. The RA IV cam needs some help with a low compression 400 to get the dynamic compression numbers where they should be. However, you can probably get by with using Rhoads lifters and the 75cc heads on a 400. If you go the stroker route, the RA IV cam with KRE's 85cc heads is very hard to beat. My 463 is a little "cammy" with the 60310 so a swap to the 60919/Rhoads may be in my future as well.

I have no blower experience so I can't really give any advice other than to call Ken as mentioned above.

[79TransAm]

would you reccomend crower RAIV cam or Comp Cams RAIV cam? I will prob stay N/A. I'll prob go with chiefmanyhorses.com 467ci stroker kit, KRE 85cc heads with 1.65 rockers. Comp Cams # 51-116-3 Dur @ .050 230/240 Lift @ 1.5 .516/.516 LSA 114*.

[Zee]

My friends and I have been using exclusively Crower cams and valvetrain parts for years, well more like decades. Not one problem ever and they spec out spot on. To be honest, I have never changed brands of cams and never felt the need to. Accordingly, I would prefer the Crower 60919. Likely nothing wrong with Comp either though. If I make the switch to a RAIV, I will run Rhoads lifters. I used them in the past to tame a wild 106 lsa cam I had in a 355 SBC. They made it streetable although just barely but the motor still pulled 7K without a problem.

[79TransAm]

nice... thaanx man. I'm still kinda new with all this. I've owned my 79 since I was 16(4yrs now) I will now begin the full resto/mod. I will look into the rhoads lifters too.

[Zee]

You are registered at the PY site as well right? If not, do that and search around there too: http://216.178.81.108/forums/?

[79TransAm]

no, i havnt registered yet.

[critter]

While you're at it check out:

http://www.transamcountry.com

and

http://www.classicalpontiac.com

and if you're really bored you can come to my club site at:

http://www.arkansaspontiacs.org

I'd also tell you that I currently have a Crower solid cam in my car and I'm happy with the quality. It's a bit much for my combination and I'll probably be swapping to a CC XE284 in the near future. I've also run Ultradyne back when Harold was still grinding cams. That stuff is now on the shelf with the good folks at Bullet Cams.

http://www.bulletcams.com/

They're good people and will do all they can to help with cam selection.

[79TransAm]

thanx for the info man

[79TransAm]

the other thing i was looking at was building a 474ci Stroker(455) 4 bolt main and running approx 100 shot of N2O. I was looking at the NOS top shot kit. If i ran that much(wouldnt be often) would you reccomend full forged bottom end? This is the stroker kit I was lookin at: http://gallery.bcentral.com/GID4716958P1571498-Rotating-Assemblies/Rotating-Assembly-Converts-455-to-474.aspx

If so would you still reccomend the KRE 85cc heads? Or would the cr be too high? I wanna be able to run on pump gas. thanx again for the advice.

[Zee]

I'm a motor guy but have played with N2O. Too much to worry about IMHO.

How fast do you want to go? A typical 2 bolt, nodular crank 455 on motor alone can push you into the 11's with suitable chasis mods. No affordable forged cranks really exist and if you tune to the RPM range most Pontiac folks do, you don't really need one either. I would go with forged rods just because they are inexpensive insurance although many do just fine with the stock rods.

Anyway here's some examples of fast Ponchos that use very little in the way of trick parts: http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/featuredcars.html

[wick]

Zee, that is some very good info on that site and shows that a smart setup with a Pontiac can make you some good power. I ran almost the same setup as you in a '71 GTO years ago with the 96 heads (non ported) and a much milder 068 cam with exhaust manifolds and it ran 13.70's all day with 3.08 gears. I even ran a stock intake and points ignition with a stock coil.

[79TransAm]

alright thanx guys. I think im gonna go with the 474 N/A with all the stuff listed above.

[79TransAm]

I was looking through our Edelbrock catalog at work yesterday and saw they have a EFI system. Does anyone know of anyone that has used this or used it themselves? If people have used it an liked it I might go with it. My buddy has a 79 TATA and the guy he bought it off of pulled the orig 403 & T/H350 and dropped in a 350sbc & 700R4 but he got one of edelbrocks EFI kits, and it fits great with the shaker and it was really easy to calibrate and all, too bad my buddy blew the 700R4(go figure) and now is too lazy to put a T/H350 back in that he bought off a guy at my work.... anyway if anyone has an experience with the edelbrock Pro Tuner EFI system pls lemme know. Also i went on summit to get prices and some of the part #'s didnt match... So i gotta check that out too..

[critter]

They announced it. No one has ever seen one to my knowledge.

[Johnny Blaze]

One of the guys on here, with a blue bird droptop, is running the edelbrock efi intake.

[79TransAm]

do you know his domain name?

[critter]

One of the guys on here, with a blue bird droptop, is running the edelbrock efi intake.

With the EFI system? I'd like to hear about it. It's be the subject of a great deal of discussion on some Pontiac boards but I'd not heard of a full setup hitting the streets yet.

[Johnny Blaze]

The guys screenname is Hammered. He is runnning the Edelbrock EFI intake, but I think he is useung a fast ecm.

[sporter]

There are many options available for a blown Pontiac. Several companies make kits using the 8-71 or 10-71 roots blowers and Vortech is working on several centrifugal kits for the traditional Pontiac. Also, BOP Engineering has some new brackets for centrifugals too.

Blower Drive Service (http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/categorynarrow.php?category_id=3482&company_id=101011)

BOP Engineering (http://www.bopengineering.com/)

Blown Pontiac Photos (http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=454106&page=1&pp=20&highlight=roots)

Vortech thread (http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=380042&page=1&pp=20&highlight=vortech)

[critter]

Looks like Johnny has the dope.

http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=465254