68 Mustang EvilNoir

[TEntem]

Hey all,

My name is Tristan, I'm from Alberta and I have a drinking problem. Wait. No. I'm being told it's a car problem. I trust I've come to the right place?

So my 'problem' is a 68 Mustang GT, I'm going to call her 'EvilNoir'... I'll explain: growing up as a car-holic, my favorite movie was Gone in 60 Seconds. Always loved Eleanor. But I'm not the type for cliches and copying, I have to be different. So my vison for this car is kinda like Eleanor's evil sister. Black with silver stripes instead of the other way around. And coupe instead of fastback. More about the vision later, let's talk about how we got here.

For almost a decade now, southern Alberta has been without a road course. But finally, we are getting one, called Rocky Mountain Motorsports Park! :woot: They are hoping for 2021 spring to be done paving, and the course looks like it will be pure driving pleasure. So that means I must build a car, because car-holic. I've been on the hunt for at least a year now and have considered everything from Factory Fives to Palatov D4 (if you don't know what that is, look it up! :scared:) to legend cars to Ford F100's. Then this came up on the kijiji's, which is Canada's craiglist. I couldn't resist, the price was hella low for what was included, and it's almost Eleanor, a car that's been on my top 10 forever. The previous owner replaced almost all of the body, front frame, and floorpan, and had it all professionally done. Here's what I got:

- 68 Mustang shell, Cali special conversion in back, Maier racing trunklid, GT style hood, GT500 front bumper and side scoops etc
- Kindigit door handles, welded in and working
- Rod and Custom crossmember and front MII suspension with adjustable damping coilovers
- 2" drop spindles
- Rod and Custom 4 link kit (quadrabind) for rear with adjustable damping coilovers
- Mustangs to Fear interior door panels, headliner, and dash
- front and rear seats
- mini tubs
- Side glass, trim, etc
- 2012 F150 Coyote 5.0
- Griffin rad and fan setup for yote swap
- and probably some other stuff I can't remember

Here are the pics from the ad: Anything black is new, so.. pretty much everything.
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181267

I'll do more posts with all the work I've done so far as well, but since getting the car, I've torn the engine down and discovered a spun front main. So that's a boat anchor. Got a replacement from a 2011 F150 and tore it down to discover water in one of the cylinders. So it's at the machine shop getting bored 10 over. That engine came with a MMR Racing sheet metal intake, looks killer. Also bought a transmission while I was up buying the engine, it's an '02 TR-3650, so should work well. Also, bought brakes off an '11 mustang. They are 13.2" with Brembo calipers, I will be making an adaptor when they get here.

Ok so that's more or less where we are, now where are we going with this thing? She'll be mostly a street car, since I live 3 hrs from the previously mentioned race track I expect most of the miles on her will be on the street and not the track. But I'm hoping to do plenty of open track days through the summer, and there is also an autocross event nearby every year. I want this to be a fun car to drive. If you have seen what Gordon Murray is up to lately, he is building a car (The T50, check it out) entirely with the driver in mind. That's what I'm going for, think Ferrari F40 or even Mazda Miata, a simple car that is like an extension of the driver. Where the car only does exactly what you tell it to. Manual steering, manual brakes, manual transmission, simple simple simple. Not only for the reduction of weight, but for the feedback it gives the driver, the reduction of the build timeline, and also the increased reliability. So with that said, it will stay NA, only looking for ~380hp(crank) to begin with and I'll dial it up from there as I get used to racing and bored with that low of power haha For reference, my daily is a 2014 Tesla S P85D with 690hp, so 380 might not feel very fast, we'll see. More power is not always better when it comes to fun factor. :)

Now. The part that goes against simplicity that I'm planning for this build is late model IRS. I've searched Mustang forums and for whatever reason, no one is doing this, and I don't know why.. The only options guys talk about is the 03-04 or 99 Cobra and the jag. The ship on Cobra rear ends has long since sailed, and though the jags may be available, I dislike the design. What I'm looking at is .. get ready.. a Hyundai Genesis Coupe. haha It has a simple subframe that can be unbolted and dropped out, Torsen LSD, Brembo brakes, and guys are supposedly putting stupid power through them. Oh, and they also have a good width based on my preliminary research and have 5x4.5 bolt pattern. I haven't bought the unit yet, so I could still back out and go with the Maier racing panhard setup, but based on what I've looked at so far, I think this could work without having to hack up the car too much. If I do have to hack and slash, I have a tig and solidworks, so I think I can get through any challenge. We'll see, have to do some measurements on a friend's Genesis first though.

So that's it for now, if you've read this far, thanks! Looking forward to sharing this build with everyone, as this forum looks like a good group of guys and gals so far, and that can't be said for every car group I've been in. I'm looking at you RX7 club. haha bunch of snobs.

Anyhow, catch ya around!

T

[ICrombie]

Looks like you have a really good start with that body! There's a guy on here that has a 67 Camaro w/ a S550 IRS swap, here's his thread for info: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/128870-1967-Camaro-Restomod-quot-Herja-quot?highlight=

I'm doing a C5 IRS in a Camaro and I think the main reason they're avoided is the complication with the track width and extensive fab work required to fit them (IRS takes up a lot more space than a live rear axle). Modern vehicles have much wider track widths than old muscle cars, so you'd either have to narrow the IRS cradle or widen the rear quarters (S550 is 10" wider than than a 67-68 mustang for example). The sheet metal work to make new fenders that actually look good isn't easy to do without previous experience and the proper tools.

There's also plenty of cheaper out of the box solutions like 4 links, torque arms, etc. that are nearly bolt in and handle very well on the track, which make them very tempting when comparing the pros and cons of IRS.

[TEntem]

Looks like you have a really good start with that body! There's a guy on here that has a 67 Camaro w/ a S550 IRS swap, here's his thread for info: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/128870-1967-Camaro-Restomod-quot-Herja-quot?highlight=

I'm doing a C5 IRS in a Camaro and I think the main reason they're avoided is the complication with the track width and extensive fab work required to fit them (IRS takes up a lot more space than a live rear axle). Modern vehicles have much wider track widths than old muscle cars, so you'd either have to narrow the IRS cradle or widen the rear quarters (S550 is 10" wider than than a 67-68 mustang for example). The sheet metal work to make new fenders that actually look good isn't easy to do without previous experience and the proper tools.

There's also plenty of cheaper out of the box solutions like 4 links, torque arms, etc. that are nearly bolt in and handle very well on the track, which make them very tempting when comparing the pros and cons of IRS.

Thanks Ian, that build thread is really helpful. Yes, I agree, the width immediately precludes most cars from being donors, or least ones that are worth the effort. I did just measure a Genesis this evening at the wreckers and the outside of tires comes to ~71". With my stock fenders, I have 71" to play with, but I also got a set of fiberglass fender flares with the car, so I should get another inch or two clearance. So I'll have to check wheel backspacing options next, but I'm optimistic this can work out. But you are right, some of the 'easier' solutions for live axle are tempting. FWIW, I don't have a differential or anything yet for the back, so for me late model IRS will almost for sure be less $ to complete.

Do you have a build thread of your own going? I'd be curious to see how the vette system works.

T

[jaybee]

Good plan, I can't wait to see more.

[ICrombie]

Thanks Ian, that build thread is really helpful. Yes, I agree, the width immediately precludes most cars from being donors, or least ones that are worth the effort. I did just measure a Genesis this evening at the wreckers and the outside of tires comes to ~71". With my stock fenders, I have 71" to play with, but I also got a set of fiberglass fender flares with the car, so I should get another inch or two clearance. So I'll have to check wheel backspacing options next, but I'm optimistic this can work out. But you are right, some of the 'easier' solutions for live axle are tempting. FWIW, I don't have a differential or anything yet for the back, so for me late model IRS will almost for sure be less $ to complete.

Do you have a build thread of your own going? I'd be curious to see how the vette system works.

T

Not yet, though I have started taking a lot more photos to document my progress, I'll probably get one started here in the next couple of months. I'm using a 03-04 Cobra 8.8 rear diff w/ a 31 spline true-trac in it, the 8.8s seem to be a pretty popular choice for V8 swaps in cars with IRS.

[fish2keel]

Hey all,

My name is Tristan, I'm from Alberta and I have a drinking problem. Wait. No. I'm being told it's a car problem. I trust I've come to the right place?

So my 'problem' is a 68 Mustang GT, I'm going to call her 'EvilNoir'... I'll explain: growing up as a car-holic, my favorite movie was Gone in 60 Seconds. Always loved Eleanor. But I'm not the type for cliches and copying, I have to be different. So my vison for this car is kinda like Eleanor's evil sister. Black with silver stripes instead of the other way around. And coupe instead of fastback. More about the vision later, let's talk about how we got here.

For almost a decade now, southern Alberta has been without a road course. But finally, we are getting one, called Rocky Mountain Motorsports Park! :woot: They are hoping for 2021 spring to be done paving, and the course looks like it will be pure driving pleasure. So that means I must build a car, because car-holic. I've been on the hunt for at least a year now and have considered everything from Factory Fives to Palatov D4 (if you don't know what that is, look it up! :scared:) to legend cars to Ford F100's. Then this came up on the kijiji's, which is Canada's craiglist. I couldn't resist, the price was hella low for what was included, and it's almost Eleanor, a car that's been on my top 10 forever. The previous owner replaced almost all of the body, front frame, and floorpan, and had it all professionally done. Here's what I got:

- 68 Mustang shell, Cali special conversion in back, Maier racing trunklid, GT style hood, GT500 front bumper and side scoops etc
- Kindigit door handles, welded in and working
- Rod and Custom crossmember and front MII suspension with adjustable damping coilovers
- 2" drop spindles
- Rod and Custom 4 link kit (quadrabind) for rear with adjustable damping coilovers
- Mustangs to Fear interior door panels, headliner, and dash
- front and rear seats
- mini tubs
- Side glass, trim, etc
- 2012 F150 Coyote 5.0
- Griffin rad and fan setup for yote swap
- and probably some other stuff I can't remember

Here are the pics from the ad: Anything black is new, so.. pretty much everything.
181266
181267

I'll do more posts with all the work I've done so far as well, but since getting the car, I've torn the engine down and discovered a spun front main. So that's a boat anchor. Got a replacement from a 2011 F150 and tore it down to discover water in one of the cylinders. So it's at the machine shop getting bored 10 over. That engine came with a MMR Racing sheet metal intake, looks killer. Also bought a transmission while I was up buying the engine, it's an '02 TR-3650, so should work well. Also, bought brakes off an '11 mustang. They are 13.2" with Brembo calipers, I will be making an adaptor when they get here.

Ok so that's more or less where we are, now where are we going with this thing? She'll be mostly a street car, since I live 3 hrs from the previously mentioned race track I expect most of the miles on her will be on the street and not the track. But I'm hoping to do plenty of open track days through the summer, and there is also an autocross event nearby every year. I want this to be a fun car to drive. If you have seen what Gordon Murray is up to lately, he is building a car (The T50, check it out) entirely with the driver in mind. That's what I'm going for, think Ferrari F40 or even Mazda Miata, a simple car that is like an extension of the driver. Where the car only does exactly what you tell it to. Manual steering, manual brakes, manual transmission, simple simple simple. Not only for the reduction of weight, but for the feedback it gives the driver, the reduction of the build timeline, and also the increased reliability. So with that said, it will stay NA, only looking for ~380hp(crank) to begin with and I'll dial it up from there as I get used to racing and bored with that low of power haha For reference, my daily is a 2014 Tesla S P85D with 690hp, so 380 might not feel very fast, we'll see. More power is not always better when it comes to fun factor. :)

Now. The part that goes against simplicity that I'm planning for this build is late model IRS. I've searched Mustang forums and for whatever reason, no one is doing this, and I don't know why.. The only options guys talk about is the 03-04 or 99 Cobra and the jag. The ship on Cobra rear ends has long since sailed, and though the jags may be available, I dislike the design. What I'm looking at is .. get ready.. a Hyundai Genesis Coupe. haha It has a simple subframe that can be unbolted and dropped out, Torsen LSD, Brembo brakes, and guys are supposedly putting stupid power through them. Oh, and they also have a good width based on my preliminary research and have 5x4.5 bolt pattern. I haven't bought the unit yet, so I could still back out and go with the Maier racing panhard setup, but based on what I've looked at so far, I think this could work without having to hack up the car too much. If I do have to hack and slash, I have a tig and solidworks, so I think I can get through any challenge. We'll see, have to do some measurements on a friend's Genesis first though.

So that's it for now, if you've read this far, thanks! Looking forward to sharing this build with everyone, as this forum looks like a good group of guys and gals so far, and that can't be said for every car group I've been in. I'm looking at you RX7 club. haha bunch of snobs.

Anyhow, catch ya around!

T


Just so you are aware i have a 67 mustang coupe and put an IRS in the rear. I started with a dana 36/44 C4 IRS but then switched to a hybrid which is a 2002 Viper center section and C4 rear outside. It fits almost too good. The stock C4 bat wing fits exactly on the frame rails, the viper batwing is more narrow, but that it was easier for me to get a more lowered stance. I'm not sure if this helps but it wasn't that bad to put it all in, once I sat down and thought about it.

[andrewb70]

Very cool project. Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing for the rear suspension.

Andrew

[69stang]

Very interesting, will be following along.

[TEntem]

Thanks everyone! The C4 IRS looks really promising, the only downside I see is the bolt pattern, but I'm sure there's a fix for that with some machining skill. Will have to do a little more looking, but that's a great lead thanks so much!

Some more pics of the car as it was waiting at my brother in law's house waiting to be picked up.
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See you tomorrow night Eleanor, you and your fine a$$ :)
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Good shot of the front crossmember
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Here you can see the kindigit door handles
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Engine stuff next post...

[TEntem]

First things first when engine building, cleanliness is key! I know it's ghetto, but it will keep the dust out.

181379

Here's what the car came with, a 2012 F150 yote.

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Struggled for an hour to get the first valve cover off, and here's what was lurking below! It turns out you can make glue from dead dinosaurs, not just dead horses.

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Yuck. Out of high school I worked at an engine machine shop for a couple years. Had to smash some pistons out of a block with a sledge, but never, ever saw anything like this.

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The block had a spun front main, so is a boat anchor I'm told. Shame really, because somehow the cylinders were in really good shape. I gotta say, modern engines are really impressive.

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So now that I have a boat anchor, anyone know of a core purchaser in Canada? It'd be nice to get at least a little cash back for this metal.

More engine stuff to come..

[TEntem]

Deja vu?? Nope, just a replacement engine. Travelled 6 hrs north to pick this up, because Canada. I'll just say right now, if you live anywhere in the continental US, be thankful. You can get parts relatively easily, and almost always free shipping. More on shipping next post. Oh and if you do live in the US, Happy Thanksgiving! :)

This is a 2011 F150 yote this time around.

181384

This time did not take an hour to pull a valve cover.

181385

What's up DOHC?

181386

This is what's up. Water in the cylinder. Because 2020, why the F not?

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So the engine is at the machine shop at the moment. Just waiting on them to check out the heads, then going to order pistons and rings, and whatever the heads need. Going with stock replacement stuff for now, and if I'm looking for more power in the future I'll add cams. After I'm comfortable racing and have the bugs worked out, then maybe a higher HP NA engine build will happen. But for now, trying to reduce sticker shock haha

Here's the intake I got with the engine, which was almost worth the admission price on it's own. It's an MMR Road Runner, powdercoated by the PO. It's meant for boosted applications, but should bring the power band up the rev range, which will help for road racing. Came with the billet fuel rails. Maybe I should look at phenolic spacers?

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Also picked this up from the same fella as the engine. 2002 Mustang TR-3650. EvilNoir originally came with a 4R75W, but auto's are gross. Manual for life! Says the guy who's daily doesn't even have a transmission haha
So anyway, this should be a good trans for the application. I'm planning to use a RAM aluminum flywheel and HDX clutch and Summit Racing short throw shifter.
Oh and my boy smashed his shin on it, hence the foam insulation haha

181391

[TEntem]

A couple of developments over the weekend:
Saturday I smoked a deer, and not on the Traeger! With my Tesla. :( But the damage isn't too bad, turns out it just needs a hood, and a couple little trim pieces around the bumper. Could have been a lot worse, the deer was 5 ft in the air and travelled maybe 30 ft or so. Glad it didn't come up and over.

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Here's what she normally looks like. Her name is Scarlett Harlot, and our best time in the quarter is 11.63@120. :) Anyhow, that will be covered by insurance, but not sure on the lead time for parts. Tesla is (or at least used to be) notoriously slow for spare parts.

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181396

Got more bad news on Monday, the 2011 Mustang 13.2" Brembo's I bought for the front of the Stang have been lost. The salvage yard didn't have good inventory, so they gave me my $ back. But now I need to find brakes because I already have the hubs for the swap. Unfortunately this was the only set listed in western Canada. I could go with the 12.5" set, but the calipers are only 2 piston and I've heard of people boiling the fluid during track sessions. Does anyone have experience with the base model brakes on a road course?

Here are the hubs and the Mustang II 2" drop spindles.

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This morning I did receive some engine goodies though. MMR high volume oil pump and pickup and a couple wear items for the engine. Having trouble finding rod bolts and main bolts, as I'm sure they are TTY. Looking for factory replacements if anyone knows where to get those.
Oh, and that thing about shipping in my last post... brokerage from UPS for this order was $130. FU UPS! I can't wait for the borders to open again so us Canadian car guys can get our parts shipped within the US again.

181399

[Peanut1959]

Looks like the Genesis rear track width is 63.6". Not sure how that fits into your plans.

[andrewb70]

The pictures of the first engine are rather remarkable. How can the inside of an engine get so sludged up? Did the people just NEVER change the oil?

Andrew

[Vimes]

The pictures of the first engine are rather remarkable. How can the inside of an engine get so sludged up? Did the people just NEVER change the oil?

Andrew

Looked like a possible farm truck engine to me. A lot of slow driving, never warmed up, probably a non-detergent oil used. And, probably not changed often enough.

[TEntem]

Looks like the Genesis rear track width is 63.6". Not sure how that fits into your plans.

Yup, it will be too wide. Genesis is out. Measured up a Z32 last night (early 90 300ZX) and it's looking like the perfect candidate. WMS to WMS is ~60", which will put the outside of tire with the wheels I have at ~68 1/4", which will be perfect. Plus they have 5x4.5 bolt pattern and LSD, although it is a viscous type. Got good measurements of the mounting points, just have to do 3D CAD to see where everything ends up with respect to the existing frame. Then it will be a matter of finding one, but that doesn't look too bad. The twin turbo version has bit stronger gear set, 3.69 gears, and HICAS, while the NA version has 4.08's and no HICAS. Either one should be plenty strong for my application.

As for the engine, I don't even know guys... No oil changes ever and probably some kind of junk additive like stop leak or something. I scraped as much sludge off it as I could and then the machine shop put er in the jetwash for 9 hours. There's still a bit of sludge on there, but it's mostly clean now haha

On another front, I have some front brake calipers from 2011 mustang (Brembo's) coming from a wrecker in the good ol' U. S. of A. :) Spent the weekend buttoning up the diff and brakes of my 93 Ranger 5.0 twin turbo, so hopefully this weekend I can move that outside and the mustang inside and get to work on the body and chassis. More to come.

T

[RMMiller]

I've been watching a build series on youtube and they found a front hub from an early 2000s jeep bolted on and has the same splines. There was some machining they had to do to make it work. I'll post a link to the video when I get home, can't seem to do it from my phone.

https://youtu.be/O0dUbfkHQvk?t=481

[protour_chevelle]

Where in Alberta are you? I float between Edmonton and Red deer

[TEntem]

I've been watching a build series on youtube and they found a front hub from an early 2000s jeep bolted on and has the same splines. There was some machining they had to do to make it work. I'll post a link to the video when I get home, can't seem to do it from my phone.

https://youtu.be/O0dUbfkHQvk?t=481

That doesn't look too difficult at all. Good find, thanks for the info!



Where in Alberta are you? I float between Edmonton and Red deer

In Medicine Hat. Do you have a build thread? Hopefully I can get up there for a car show or race event when this beast is all built :)

T

[RMMiller]

That doesn't look too difficult at all. Good find, thanks for the info!

As dumb luck would have it, I found the link to this build on here!

[protour_chevelle]

In Medicine Hat. Do you have a build thread? Hopefully I can get up there for a car show or race event when this beast is all built :)

T
Somewhere on here and ls1tech but super dated. It was a protour deal years ago. Then I went small tire(275) drag radial racing with the car, went a best of 8.7s in the 1/4 and 5.32 in the 1/8. Back to driving and enjoying the car again so its all ripped apart again.

[DCx]

Absolutely love your sense of humor and the build.

I bought some drum brake hubs for my 67 mustang, mustang steve cobra front caliper brackets, and used 04 Corvette Z06 Calipers along with a cobra rotor. All I had to do was drill out the caliper mount holes a little. The Corvette calipers are 2mm wider spacing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/12/VLjpjD7-1.jpg

[TEntem]

Somewhere on here and ls1tech but super dated. It was a protour deal years ago. Then I went small tire(275) drag radial racing with the car, went a best of 8.7s in the 1/4 and 5.32 in the 1/8. Back to driving and enjoying the car again so its all ripped apart again.

That's quick! Not many people make their car's slower, but I totally get the desire to want to get back to driving and not just racing. :)


DCx

Absolutely love your sense of humor and the build.

I bought some drum brake hubs for my 67 mustang, mustang steve cobra front caliper brackets, and used 04 Corvette Z06 Calipers along with a cobra rotor. All I had to do was drill out the caliper mount holes a little. The Corvette calipers are 2mm wider spacing.



Thanks for the compliments! Those brakes look great, more clearance than I would have expected for an 18" wheel, is the cobra rotor 13.2"?

[TEntem]

Well not much to update, got the car into the garage last weekend. So spent a couple evenings with my new best friend the mangle grinder removing surface rust. Tried POR 15 metal prep, but .. meh.. I think good ol' mechanical action works better TBH. No word back yet from the machine shop on the heads. And also still waiting on brake calipers to arrive. I'll get the rotors, bearings, etc when I order the engine parts. I have to get a few more measurements of the Nissan 300ZX IRS unit, but it's uh... illegal... to go to someone's house right now in Alberta. (1984?) So that may have to wait for a bit. :rolleyes:

Here she is in her home for the next who knows how long.

182018

Started looking at bodywork, most of it is really good, but there are some areas that need work. These 'glass pieces that cap off the rear quarter panels need some fitment work. Can someone tell me what these are called?? haha Anyway, my plan is to bolt and epoxy glue them in place, then add glass filler and shape to fit. Seems to me they are just off in too many different angles to take a different approach, but I'd like to hear y'all's suggestions.

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182020

Also, the PO's body man made these cuts I'm assuming to lower trunk rail because they must have had clearance issues with the Maier racing trunk lid. (I'm guessing the steel was at fault, not the lid?) Those are going to be fun patch panels to make and weld in.

182021

And here's her dirty undercarriage!

182022

Hehehe Mater.

Later Mater!

T

[DCx]

Those brakes look great, more clearance than I would have expected for an 18" wheel, is the cobra rotor 13.2"?

All sources point to the cobra rotors being 12.9" everyone always refers to them as 13s. I used the C5 calipers because I had them on hand. The pad surface area of the C5 is way larger than the cobra.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2020/12/5underbird6comparisonjpginterpolationlan-1.jpg