Alignment Issue QA1

[Frank69]

A year ago I bought a 67 Chevelle SS that already had a QA1 Street Performance upper control arms and sway bar installed. The lower arms, springs and shocks are still basically stock. It also had the stock power steering box, which was really sloppy. I recently installed a new Borgeson 12.7:1 box. The steering was then nice and tight...huge improvement. No more constant steering input on the freeway. The car did want to slowly track to the right, so I brought it in for alignment. Now I'm wondering what the heck is going on with these caster numbers. Negative 3.15, are you kiddin' me?

The shop is competent and their equipment is top notch. They have done other vintage cars for me in the past with good results. They just couldn't dial in any more positive caster. I got on the phone with QA1 support and we went over the possible issues. The arms are on the correct side, the cross shafts are installed correctly, ball joints appear correctly aligned. The only thing we haven't done is adjust the upper ball joint mount (the QA1's are adjustable). I'll try that, but I don't think there is 8 degrees of positive adjustment there.

Any advice or knowledge would be appreciated at this point. The car drives fine really. Maybe it steers a little too easy, but it doesn't wander and tracks straight. No bump steer either.

Frank

[79T/Aman]

you must have the uppers swapped left to right.

[dhutton]

you must have the uppers swapped left to right.

This was my thinking too....

Don

[Frank69]

you must have the uppers swapped left to right.

That was my initial thought too, but tech support at QA1 talked me through it. “QA1” sticker towards the front (not definitive, but mine are) and “bent” leg of the control arm is forward, “straighter” leg toward the rear. Check.

[dhutton]

How many shims on the front and rear bolts?

Don

[Frank69]

How many shims on the front and rear bolts?

Don

Not a bunch.

168928168927

[dhutton]

I would try the upper balljoint mount. You could always add some more rear shims but you will gain more negative camber. I like to run -.5 degrees.

Don

[79T/Aman]

check to see if the lowers may not be switched, on A-bodies it is possible.

[Frank69]

check to see if the lowers may not be switched, on A-bodies it is possible.

Ok, I’ll do that. Is there an easy visual clue?

[79T/Aman]

post a pic of the bottom of the lower A-arm, the rear leg of the arm has a slight bend in it.

[Frank69]

post a pic of the bottom of the lower A-arm, the rear leg of the arm has a slight bend in it.

Lower looks good to me and matches the factory chassis manual. Photos of the upper and lower driver’s side:

168963168962

[dhutton]

I would have thought the sway bar would not bolt up if the rears were swapped.

Don

[Sbeck09]

Are you sure the car was never wrecked or took a severe hit to the suspension in the past? The only time I have had bolt-on parts from a reputable company not be in "spec" was when there was an issue with the mounting structure.

[cdrod]

I know the QA rep said the sticker goes toward the front, but your upper arms appear to sweep forward, when they should sweep to the rear. Look at the angle of the balljoint stud, it should not point back like that. Try swapping the arms, left to right; I'll bet that fixes your alignment issue. All you have to lose is the time it takes to make the swap.
Rodney

[dhutton]

I know the QA rep said the sticker goes toward the front, but your upper arms appear to sweep forward, when they should sweep to the rear. Look at the angle of the balljoint stud, it should not point back like that. Try swapping the arms, left to right; I'll bet that fixes your alignment issue. All you have to lose is the time it takes to make the swap.
Rodney

X2

Don

[79T/Aman]

lowers are correct but those uppers sure look wrong, that upper ball joint is too far forward.
Swap them left to right

[Frank69]

Are you sure the car was never wrecked or took a severe hit to the suspension in the past? The only time I have had bolt-on parts from a reputable company not be in "spec" was when there was an issue with the mounting structure.

No, not sure but you would think that you’d get uneven numbers left to right if that was the case. No visible damage or evidence of heavy repair.

[Frank69]

I know the QA rep said the sticker goes toward the front, but your upper arms appear to sweep forward, when they should sweep to the rear. Look at the angle of the balljoint stud, it should not point back like that. Try swapping the arms, left to right; I'll bet that fixes your alignment issue. All you have to lose is the time it takes to make the swap.
Rodney

I’ve got QA1 tech on speed dial now, haha. They offered to give me the exact measurements of the control arms left and right legs. I’ll get that tomorrow and send them this photo to verify. These components were on the car when I bought it, so always good to verify these things.

[79T/Aman]

Are you sure the car was never wrecked or took a severe hit to the suspension in the past? The only time I have had bolt-on parts from a reputable company not be in "spec" was when there was an issue with the mounting structure.

If you look at the alignment sheet the OP posted it is clear the caster is backwards and fairly even.

[Frank69]

I just got off the phone with them again. Sent them the photos and measurements of the arms (front and back). QA1 tech believes they are installed correctly. For visual reference, they said that the center of the ball joint (red grease zerk cap) should line up slightly forward (towards the front of the car) from the snubber bolt on the gusset. Mine does. If the arms were switched left to right, that visual reference would line up towards the rear of the car.


I'll take it to another alignment shop, but this one has been really good in the past...independent shop, good equipment, willing to set up to aftermarket specs, etc. They set up my 69 Camaro (full Global West front) and last month did my 57 Chevy (tubular uppers/stock lowers/tall ball joints) with perfect results. Still not sure what's going on here. I guess I could try swapping the a-arms left to right and see what happens. The QA1 cross shaft is "offset", but you only flip it from the "shallow" indentation (stock) side to the "deep" side for added negative camber. It's not a tapered offset cross shaft like others (Detroit Speed, I think) that add positive caster.

[79T/Aman]

the offset cross shafts only affect camber, DSE uses mounting slugs to shift the arm for and aft to affect caster.

From what I can tell the guy at QA1 does not seem to know what he's talking about, according to QA1 the upper arms have 3-4* of built in positive caster, this means that your car when it had stock upper control arms had around 6-7* of NEGATIVE caster!!!!!!! stock caster setting is typically around -1.5 to +1.5, I don't know what it is exactly but you can see it is way off the opposite way their arms are supposed to change it.
A-body arms are very symmetrical and not out of the realm of possibilities that the sticker was put on the wrong leg.

[eville]

Have you verified you have the correct part numbers?
According to the last page of the instructions, it looks like the arms are installed in the correct orientation for PN 52422 that I think you should have for your application.
http://www.qa1.net/tech/documents/GM%20UCA_REV_11-15-2016.pdf

[Frank69]

the offset cross shafts only affect camber, DSE uses mounting slugs to shift the arm for and aft to affect caster.

From what I can tell the guy at QA1 does not seem to know what he's talking about, according to QA1 the upper arms have 3-4* of built in positive caster, this means that your car when it had stock upper control arms had around 6-7* of NEGATIVE caster!!!!!!! stock caster setting is typically around -1.5 to +1.5, I don't know what it is exactly but you can see it is way off the opposite way their arms are supposed to change it.
A-body arms are very symmetrical and not out of the realm of possibilities that the sticker was put on the wrong leg.

I am inclined to agree, but all evidence points to the contrary. The front arm is supposed to be 9.5” from the center line of the cross shaft bolt to the center line of the ball joint. The rear arm is 10” from the same reference points. The measurements match mine. The front arm of the “A” is shorter on their design (at least for A bodies). For G bodies it’s obviously different.

[Frank69]

Have you verified you have the correct part numbers?
According to the last page of the instructions, it looks like the arms are installed in the correct orientation for PN 52422 that I think you should have for your application.
http://www.qa1.net/tech/documents/GM%20UCA_REV_11-15-2016.pdf

Only visually by shape and logically since that’s their A body arm. Didn’t find a stamped # on the arm itself.

[eville]

If the other shop gets the same numbers I'd check the ball joints.

[Frank69]

If the other shop gets the same numbers I'd check the ball joints.

Taller, maybe?

[79T/Aman]

OK last post on this, I understand not wanting to face the facts but going from over 3* Negative to 4 Positive means moving the ball joint 1.5"+

[Frank69]

OK last post on this, I understand not wanting to face the facts but going from over 3* Negative to 4 Positive means moving the ball joint 1.5"+

I hope you understand that I appreciate your help with this and I am not doubting your expertise. By saying that the evidence is to the contrary, what I mean is that the measurements provided by QA1 via a schematic drawing match the control arms as installed in my car. I am at a loss to understand it. I WILL try swapping them side to side and then take it for alignment. I’ll report back. Hopefully that will solve the issue.