New Hooker Blackheart 1st-gen Camaro BB Chevy stainless steel headers

[Toddoky]

I had mentioned the coming release of some new Hooker Blackheart BB Chevy headers for 1st-gen Camaros to another member in a different thread some time back, so I thought I'd create a thread for them here so I can make you guys aware of them as they get released. The images posted here are of the 2" headers (part number BH13182) that were just released a couple of days ago; they are for stock exhaust port size/location heads and are designed to be compatible with the Ride Tech Tru-Turn system, which can be seen in the first under-car image. There will be a couple of more part numbers released in the coming months and one of those will be a 2-1/8" header with different bend geometry than this set of headers shown here.

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[andrewb70]

Man, those fit nice! Tequila shots on me, next time I see you :-)

Andrew

[Toddoky]

Man, those fit nice! Tequila shots on me, next time I see you :-)

Andrew
Although I can't take credit for the design of these headers (they were prototyped by another designer on the Hooker Blackheart team), I will hold you to the tequila shots when you're in town for LS Fest...I don't drink the cheap stuff either!

[andrewb70]

I don't either. I like Don Julio, Anejo ;-)

[TBART70]

I bet they would be close to fitting a second gen. I tried the passenger side Super Comps first gen in my second gen a while back and it fit. I don't remember the ground clearance though. Wishful thinking maybe. Send me a set of second gens when they come out and I will test fit them.

I would be able to lower the front of my car at least 1.5" s from where it is now with that clearance.

[Toddoky]

Yeah, I think the geometry
of the driver side assembly is go to make them a no-go on a 2nd-gen. We haven’t designed a Hooker Blackheart header to fit more than a single application yet and at the end of the day I think that works out out being better for us and the user.

[Toddoky]

For those who are following that are thinking a 2" primary size header is too large for the BB engine in their 1st-gen Camaro, an 1-7/8" version of the Hooker Blackheart headers being discussed thus far in this thread has just been released as part number BH13181.

[csmith4153]

Do these clear a Borgeson p/s box?

[Toddoky]

If you are referring to the Borgeson remanufactured box based on the Saginaw 700 series box, then yes, they do.

[minendrews68]

Since your somewhat in touch with Hooker, I've got to ask a question. I've got the Hooker competition headers. I, like a lot of others on the internet wonder why Hooker won't fix the fit of their small block headers into a first gen Camaro. One of the tubes does in fact hit the steering. I had a problem, sent the header back, they sent it back and told me that it did fit their fixture. I am aware it fits their fixture and asked them if maybe their fixture could use some adjusting and showed where it was hitting. Their reply was... it fits the fixture and sent the header back. I googled this problem and it was pretty wide spread with most saying they just took a hammer and dented the tube. Go figure.
Sorry for ranting on your thread, I just thought I'd ask you, your thoughts.

[Toddoky]

Since your somewhat in touch with Hooker, I've got to ask a question. I've got the Hooker competition headers. I, like a lot of others on the internet wonder why Hooker won't fix the fit of their small block headers into a first gen Camaro. One of the tubes does in fact hit the steering. I had a problem, sent the header back, they sent it back and told me that it did fit their fixture. I am aware it fits their fixture and asked them if maybe their fixture could use some adjusting and showed where it was hitting. Their reply was... it fits the fixture and sent the header back. I googled this problem and it was pretty wide spread with most saying they just took a hammer and dented the tube. Go figure.
Sorry for ranting on your thread, I just thought I'd ask you, your thoughts. Hello Carl. I can't give you an official authorized answer to your question since I don't work in the customer service or management sides of the business at Holley. However, I can tell you from experience that the headers within the Comp line were designed at a time in the past (long before Holley acquired Hooker), when it was common for headers to be designed by manufacturers to fit as broad a range of vehicle applications as possible.

There are inherent drawbacks to using that design methodology as it makes it harder to execute design revisions to such a set of headers than it would be if they were created to only fit a single vehicle application. If for example, you were to change the bend geometry of a specific tube to provide more clearance between it and a component on one of the vehicles listed in the application range, you could possibly be creating a new interference issue on one of the other vehicles within the application range. To be sure you wouldn't be, you would have to test fit the revised design on each and every vehicle type in the application.

There was a time when that would not have been an impossible task, but it has become so due to the age of some of the vehicles covered in some of these applications and the ability to obtain/borrow them for such activities. The best way to eliminate issues such as these, in my personal opinion, is to adopt a design methodology that requires only a single vehicle to be targeted with each and every new header design. That is exactly what Holley chose to do when the Hooker Blackheart line was created, which makes it much easier for me to optimize the fitment of the headers and exhaust products that I design as part of the engine swap systems I'm responsible for developing.

I am old enough to remember when hammer denting headers to fit them on cars was quite the expected norm and it unfortunately still is a requirement is some instances. Because of what I knew then and what I know now, I've changed my personal header expectations and requirements accordingly. I typically won't purchase headers that were designed more than 10 years in the past, and won't buy any that are not made from stainless steel. I hope my unofficial observation is useful to you.

- - - Updated - - -

[minendrews68]

Point taken, and a good analogy. I understand about the old ways of doing things. I'm 68 and remember quite well the way things used to be done. I appreciate your answer.

[Just 1 More]

What do these look like at the steering box?

[Toddoky]

What do these look like at the steering box?
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[Just 1 More]

Nice, thanks

[JustJohn]

Any chance these fit a 69 Impala?

[Toddoky]

Any chance these fit a 69 Impala? I wouldn't have any way of knowing if they would. They were prototyped on a 1st-gen Camaro and test fitted on no other type of vehicle.

[Bad Bowtie]

Todd,
I think its great that they redesigned the header, but at over 1200.00 for headers I think its going to be a hard pill to swallow for some. But as they say build it and they will buy it.
BB

[Toddoky]

Todd,
I think its great that they redesigned the header, but at over 1200.00 for headers I think its going to be a hard pill to swallow for some. But as they say build it and they will buy it.
BB
Development of Hooker Blackheart headers or exhaust systems are never undertaken as a redesign effort of existing Hooker Comp or Super Comp applications and are instead carried out to provide users with a higher level of fitment, component level design optimization and build quality. We understand that some users won’t find value in the improved features these headers provide and the lower cost headers from our other product lines exist as alternatives for those users. For any given application, Hooker Blackheart headers are never the cheapest, or most expensive option available.

[JustJohn]

I'd be happy to measure or test fit a set. Two sets of headers in and I'm still not happy.

Ground clearance issues on the Hooker competition header, btw.

[Toddoky]

I'd be happy to measure or test fit a set. Two sets of headers in and I'm still not happy.

Ground clearance issues on the Hooker competition header, btw. I understand how important ground clearance is these days, which is the reason why I posted photos of the ground clearance for these particular headers in the first post of this thread. The ground clearance of the Hooker Comp headers not meeting your needs doesn't surprise me, I would guess they were designed 30 years or so ago when the guys at the original Hooker company weren't absolutely focused on maximizing that fitment characteristic.

[TBART70]

Anything on the second gen yet?

[Toddoky]

Anything on the second gen yet?

Nothing new to report and I don't see anything related to new 2nd gen headers on the development schedule at this time.

[eze_1978]

I’m struggling with this issue with a small block 400 in a 69 Chevy Nova power steering box and full ridetech suspension with Tru Turn package. Is there a part number that would provide clearance like the pictures shown? I have test fitted 3 different headers now and the best solution I’ve come up with is to try to modify the ones I have. The latest headers I test fitted were Dynatech and they said they would provide great ground clearance but they did not. Passenger side sat below the frame rail. Not sure of the brand that I currently have but they have excellent clearance on the passenger side and suck up under the frame rail, while the drivers side hangs way below the frame rail. Any help would be greatly appreciated. It gets expensive returning headers.

[Toddoky]

I’m struggling with this issue with a small block 400 in a 69 Chevy Nova power steering box and full ridetech suspension with Tru Turn package. Is there a part number that would provide clearance like the pictures shown? I have test fitted 3 different headers now and the best solution I’ve come up with is to try to modify the ones I have. The latest headers I test fitted were Dynatech and they said they would provide great ground clearance but they did not. Passenger side sat below the frame rail. Not sure of the brand that I currently have but they have excellent clearance on the passenger side and suck up under the frame rail, while the drivers side hangs way below the frame rail. Any help would be greatly appreciated. It gets expensive returning headers.Is your Tru Turn system one of the newer versions that includes a new center link that replaces your factory center link, or is it the original version that uses a center link adapter that attaches to your stock center link?

[eze_1978]

Is your Tru Turn system one of the newer versions that includes a new center link that replaces your factory center link, or is it the original version that uses a center link adapter that attaches to your stock center link?

Should the new version. I purchased the suspension less than 2 years ago.

[Toddoky]

Should the new version. I purchased the suspension less than 2 years ago. You'll need to crawl under your car and verify which one it is in order to get an absolute answer to your compatibility question regarding the Tru Turn system and the Hooker Blackheart headers. Similar to the Hooker Blackheart 1st-gen F-body LS swap header, the SB Chevy headers were prototyped to clear the components of the original configuration of the Tru Turn system, which is all that existed at the time the headers were designed. Since the LS swap headers were no longer compatible with the Tru Turn system following Ridetech's redesign of the center link components, I expect the SB Chevy headers to also be non-compatible with it. As far as the other questions you asked, I recommend going through this thread...https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/118939-Hooker-1st-gen-F-body-3rd-gen-X-body-headers-and-exhaust-systems/page6

[Just 1 More]

I just ordered the BH13181 for my 68 w/454, PS, Manual trans.. I hope they fit as good as you say they do.

[Just 1 More]

I am curious, Why natural stainless steel and not ceramic coated or some other coating?

[Toddoky]

I am curious, Why natural stainless steel and not ceramic coated or some other coating? Raw 304SS has an inherent coefficient of thermal conductivity that is on par with mild steel that has been ceramic coated.

It is also more corrosion resistant as the passivity layer of stainless steel is imparted to 100% of the surface of the tubes (i.e. inside and outside the tubes and in between the tubes at the collector junction), so the main contribution of adding ceramic coating to a set of stainless steel headers would merely be to drive up the cost and selling price to the user.

There are some users who don't find the heat coloration of stainless tubes appealing, and I would say that group would benefit from having their stainless steel headers ceramic coated.

[Just 1 More]

Raw 304SS has an inherent coefficient of thermal conductivity that is on par with mild steel that has been ceramic coated.

It is also more corrosion resistant as the passivity layer of stainless steel is imparted to 100% of the surface of the tubes (i.e. inside and outside the tubes and in between the tubes at the collector junction), so the main contribution of adding ceramic coating to a set of stainless steel headers would merely be to drive up the cost and selling price to the user.

There are some users who don't find the heat coloration of stainless tubes appealing, and I would say that group would benefit from having their stainless steel headers ceramic coated.

Thank you Sir, i'll report back once I get them installed

[Just 1 More]

UPDATE: I am very impressed with the fitment of these headers... Thank you Hooker

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2020/08/50266441073_af30ef52e3_b-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jzSDF8)Resized_20200824_213220 (https://flic.kr/p/2jzSDF8) by F G (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153250783@N04/), on Flickr

[Toddoky]

UPDATE: I am very impressed with the fitment of these headers... Thank you Hooker

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2020/08/50266441073_af30ef52e3_b-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jzSDF8)Resized_20200824_213220 (https://flic.kr/p/2jzSDF8) by F G (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153250783@N04/), on Flickr I'm glad to hear of your positive experience. Feel free to post as many images of your install as you want for the benefit of others who may come across this thread.

[Just 1 More]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2020/08/50267892461_9f4df6b2cb_k-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jA1684)20200825_122704 (https://flic.kr/p/2jA1684) by F G (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153250783@N04/), on Flickr

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2020/08/50267233238_ed7a2c67d2_k-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jzWHa9)20200825_122845 (https://flic.kr/p/2jzWHa9) by F G (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153250783@N04/), on Flickr

[Just 1 More]

SO far so good.. The Hooker 3" clamps are badass, I've got them on the collectors to 3" mandrel "S" bend pipe. I had to buy the Flowmaster "S" bend kit PART# 15927 with the 4", 6" & 8" offset "S" bend pipes. Got it from my local Autozone for $156. Ended up using the 6" offset.
Used the cheap std 3" band clamp at the slip joint section to the old 3" pipe near the muffler. With a good amount of bolt tightening, The cheap band clamps conformed to the step in the slip joint real nice and so far no leaks that I can tell.
The whole system seems quieter now, maybe it's the long tube headers, maybe it's the better mandrel bends, maybe it's my perception.

[redfire69]

I've had a set of these headers on order for 8 weeks, ETA came and went. Now ETA is 16 more weeks. I'm sure Holley blames covid, even though they continue to produce new hooker blackheart products. Wish their centralized ordering was linked to actually production... buyer beware...

[redfire69]

I still have the 1 7/8 on back order, but since I saw the 2 inch in stock I took a chance and order them (BH13182). They showed up in three days, I thought great. To be clear, I’m installing on a 69 Camaro, standard deck BBC, correct frame stands, engine mounts, and TH400 cross member that move engine to the passenger side per the installation guide. Had to drop the PS box even though the guide says just feed header from under car. Headers do not have the claimed clearance from those in this thread. Heavy contact with the steering box. Heavy contact with drop link on passenger side and light contact with edge of GM mini starter already clocked (does clear solenoid). I am not happy to have the exact setup touted as working out the box and have to take the BFH to a set of 1500 headers.

Anyone wanting to run the 2 inch be warned.

[Just 1 More]

I still have the 1 7/8 on back order, but since I saw the 2 inch in stock I took a chance and order them (BH13182). They showed up in three days, I thought great. To be clear, I’m installing on a 69 Camaro, standard deck BBC, correct frame stands, engine mounts, and TH400 cross member that move engine to the passenger side per the installation guide. Had to drop the PS box even though the guide says just feed header from under car. Headers do not have the claimed clearance from those in this thread. Heavy contact with the steering box. Heavy contact with drop link on passenger side and light contact with edge of GM mini starter already clocked (does clear solenoid). I am not happy to have the exact setup touted as working out the box and have to take the BFH to a set of 1500 headers.

Anyone wanting to run the 2 inch be warned.

Well crap, Sorry to hear the 2" didn't work out as good as they should

[bsimms89]

Do they still actually make any of these headers? I see all the claims about the clearances but they do not seem to be available anymore.
BH13182 2" primaries, not available
BH13181 1 7/8" primaries, not available
BH13183 only the 2 1/8" primaries is available which I don't think will help with my clearance issues,

I also see people claim dynamax headers number 740-11310 have good clearances, but they do not seem to be produced anymore either.

I currently have a 69 camaro, ZZ502 crate engine, Muncie 4 speed, and power steering and aftermarket tubular control arms (unsure of brand, installed by previous owner), and hooker headers, I'm pretty sure most of the work was done around 2003-2004 from the serial numbers off some parts I've managed to find and the crate engine, assuming all the work was done at the same time. I have clearance issues between the passenger side rear control arm shaft bolt and the primary tube, and at the driver side pitman arm, the previous owner had to put a large dent in the header to get it to clear the steering linkage, and even with that it'll still rub and squeak occasionally. Also the bottom of the headers are dented from ground contact.

I'm trying to improve clearances and replace any previously damaged items, and also improve ride quality, what do people find are the best clearing headers out there currently?