69 camaro brake help

[TXsilverado]

I finally got my 69 Camaro on the street over the weekend. It has plenty of *GO, and not as much *STOP. It stops, but requires more input than I would expect. I wouldn’t quite trust it in an emergency stop situation, and the car will get to an emergency stop situation quickly. Then again, this is my first car to ever drive with manual brakes (maybe I should just put down my purse). There is no room for assisted brakes on this build….

What do you guys need me to supply to come up with brake upgrades? All I know is it has disks on all 4 corners and a willwood manual master with the willwood prop valve. The car has a 9” rear end, and I believe the rear brakes are from a Lincoln Versailles. I dont plan to autocross, but i do need something to keep me out of the trunk of the car in front of me if they jam up their modern brakes.

157702

[rickpaw]

Do you know what type of disc brake in the front? Factory type GM or aftermarket? What's your pedal ratio?

You can try changing the pads (increase friction), or change the master (increase braking force).

[TXsilverado]

It has GM style front brakes. I plan to look at the pads this weekend, and I can figure out which master is installed.

[TXsilverado]

Tu, it was good meeting you over the weekend. I went through the brakes on the car and nothing stuck out to me as being wrong. I think manual brakes just aren't for me. I'd like to go hydroboost, but my blower intake is in the way. Anyone know of a kit that would offset the brakes to the drivers side? I heard of some kind of electric vacuum assisted brake system that puts an electric pump in the driver's side fender. the person telling me didn't know a brand, or exactly how it worked; just that they had seen it before. as usual, any help is appreciated.

[eville]

What master cylinder and what size bore?
What brakes are on the car?
What brake pads are you using?
Do you have a distribution block or a proportioning valve under the MC?

Look under the dash, is the brake pedal rod in the upper or lower hole?

Are you able to lock the brakes at all? Do the rears lock before the front? Is your Wilwood prop valve all the way open for now?

[rickpaw]

It was good meeting with you as well. Steve (eville) has some good questions that you need to check out before shelling out the money.

You and I are fairly close, I can stop by and take a look at the car more closely if you wish.

Tu

[TXsilverado]

I haven't had access to the car all week. hopefully I'll have time to poke around it this weekend. I can answer a few of his question, but want to get all of his questions answered in 1 post to keep it clean.

[TXsilverado]

anyone know if there is a part number on a wilwood master anywhere? all i can find is a number 1 stamped in the base of it.

[eville]

This 1 means 1”

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/A1CC2A7A25F940029DB5BDB086C6E5E2_zpsp4ui-1.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/sej275/media/C5%20Brakes/A1CC2A7A-25F9-4002-9DB5-BDB086C6E5E2_zpsp4uifkut.jpg.html)

[c4racer2]

With manual brakes you need to pay a lot of attention to piston area, rotor size (more is better) and MC bore size (less is better - gives more pedal travel and feel).

For starters the 1” is same as a stock 69 Camaro. Not horrible. Not modern performance car braking.

You need larger calipers and rotors and a smaller MC bore. I would do that vs just adding hydro boost. 7/8” is a good place to start and rotors with piston surface area over 5 sq-in
And a 13/16 or even 3/4” bore might be better depending which calipers you end up with.

It’s a pretty serious math and engineering exercise more that just rule or thumb and bolting on parts that look neat.

There is a very good book on the subject by Fred Puhn. Pick it up.

[NH427]

Not cheap but this option would work for you. https://www.classicindustries.com/product/1969/chevrolet/camaro/parts/pb10569.html

[TXsilverado]

I finally got a frt wheel off. Here is what i know.

1” willwood manual master.
Brake caliper is stamped 5489700 with a single 2.83 OD piston.
Rotor is 11” stamped 615100. Century. Not sure if that is the rotor brand, or possibly buick century.
Pads are stamped D52
The hardlines from the MC to the calipers is .185 OD.

I couldnt find a stamp on the dust cover or spindle.

Does any of this mean anything to anyone?

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[dhutton]

Those are the original disc brakes. They were never offered as manual as far as I know. 1” master is likely too large.

Don

[TXsilverado]

The prop valve only changes the rear brakes, right? Frt gets same power no matter how the prop is adjusted?

[andrewb70]

The prop valve only changes the rear brakes, right? Frt gets same power no matter how the prop is adjusted?

Correct. Why not throw a booster on it and call it a day?

Andrew

[TXsilverado]

Correct. Why not throw a booster on it and call it a day?


Andrew

No space for booster or hydroboost.

[TXsilverado]

if this is the OEM disk brake setup, i'm shocked that there isnt a blunt answer of exactly what to do to make it work correctly. i'm sure a manual master has been added to stock rotors and calipers thousands of times and the correct recipe should be in every stickey in every forum LOL.

the wilwood master isnt cheap, and i dont care to guess at what size to get (7/8 or 3/4). Also, i'm thinking about swapping brake pads to hawk HPS pads for a little more bite since the brand/material of what i have is unknown.

[andrewb70]

if this is the OEM disk brake setup, i'm shocked that there isnt a blunt answer of exactly what to do to make it work correctly. i'm sure a manual master has been added to stock rotors and calipers thousands of times and the correct recipe should be in every stickey in every forum LOL.

the wilwood master isnt cheap, and i dont care to guess at what size to get (7/8 or 3/4). Also, i'm thinking about swapping brake pads to hawk HPS pads for a little more bite since the brand/material of what i have is unknown.

Rockauto lists a 1 1/8" bore master for stock manual disk/drum brakes. That seems pretty big for manual brakes...

You can experiment with an inexpensive 15/16 bore MC.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28658&cc=1054909&jsn=703&jsn=703

I run Baer SS4+ brakes on my Cougar and love them. Eleven inch front rotors with aluminum hats and pretty big 4 piston calipers. Fits inside 15" wheels. I have stock rear drums and use a 15/16" Baer Remaster MC. The kit also includes aluminum hubs and all together will probably save at least 10 pounds from each corner, maybe more.

Andrew

[TXsilverado]

i'm going to start with new pads and decide from there.

from some quick reading the 1969 corvette had a disk/disk manual option from the factory as a 1" master. It came with a 5:1 pedal ratio (unless the internet is lying to me). I dont see why my 1" master wont stop my car with a 6:1 ratio! what am i missing. can pads make that big of a difference? I'm on a 6' front runner and i cant lock em up. grrrr.

[dhutton]

Master bore needs to be sized to caliper piston size. Pretty sure Corvettes didn’t use those calipers but I am not positive....

Don

[andrewb70]

Master bore needs to be sized to caliper piston size. Pretty sure Corvettes didn’t use those calipers but I am not positive....

Don

The Corvette calipers are very different and they are lighter than a Nova.

Andrew