What are you using for fuel lines?

[claytona08]

Hey guys, I'm in the process of installing a LS2 in my 71 Chevelle. What fuel lines do you suggest or recommend? This is my first LS swap so my knowledge on this stuff is fairly limited. Thanks in advance

[icemanrd19]

i used stock lines and Earl lines from the stock line to engine and the same from stock line to tank.

[csouth]

^^ See above....This is what works

[slimjim]

did you guys go with the stainless version or OEM?

[csouth]

did you guys go with the stainless version or OEM?

OEM works fine... I used PTFE hose from the tank to the FPR, then FPR to hard line. From the hardline to the fuel rail

[andrewb70]

If you need to make hard lines, NiCopp is easy to work with and frames easily. To mate the NiCopp with AN style fittings, do this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hFmkTGGV8

Andrew

[slimjim]

Thats a neat video and a great flaring tool, I was planning on using NiCopp for my brake and fuel lines but wasn't aware anyone was still using these pre-made OEM fuel lines on LS swapped cars, I figure it could save some time. But what is everyone doing about the return line? I haven't found any 1/4" OEM lines

[csouth]

Thats a neat video and a great flaring tool, I was planning on using NiCopp for my brake and fuel lines but wasn't aware anyone was still using these pre-made OEM fuel lines on LS swapped cars, I figure it could save some time. But what is everyone doing about the return line? I haven't found any 1/4" OEM lines

You don't need a return line of you use the corvette FPR, only what it needed will go to the rails.

[icemanrd19]

Vaporworks system didn't need a return line

[raustinss]

What kind of hp levels can stock lines support

[claytona08]

I'll be relatively stock with a cam, ported and polished 243 heads and headers. I expect the engine to get 500hp at the crank so I've heard that I can't use the stock fuel lines....any truth to this?

[AU Doc]

What is everyone using for fuel line in your LS swaps? I've never plumbed a fuel system for an EFI engine, so there are some details I'm not sure about.

Is there a "most common" approach? My first thought was to use hardline from the engine bay to the rear where I'm planning to use a corvette style filter/regulator, but I'm not sure how to make the connections from the hardline to filter/regulator and then from the regulator to the tank. Are AN fittings the easiest route here?

I'm planning to use a Tanks Inc EFI fuel tank (http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=348/category_id=130/mode=prod/prd348.htm), and I see they have a kit that uses flexible for what appears to be the entire fuel system (http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=453/category_id=167/mode=prod/prd453.htm). Is that twist-lock hose durable enough to use for the full length of the car unprotected?

[oleyeller]

Factory 3/8" stainless steel from Right Stuff Detailing. Tank to firewall then -6 PTFE hose with AN fittings to the fuel rail.

[AU Doc]

Do you have a regulator plumbed in there somewhere? Are you using a return line?

[andrewb70]

Do you have a regulator plumbed in there somewhere? Are you using a return line?

I have a ton of pictures in my Cougar build thread. I like NiCopp for fuel and brake lines. Then I mate that with PTFE AN hose. I use a Corvette regulator/filter in the back and a short return line.

Andrew

[another69]

I really like the hardline, but got lazy with my car. Used Brown & Miller PTFE line fully the last few times I ran fuel lines. Be sure, whatever lines you use, that they are rated to be used with pump gas at efi pressures.

[AU Doc]

I'll check out your thread....... again :) I've been reading up on the NiCopp line. Sounds like it's a lot easier to bend and flare than steel lines.

[ULTM8Z]

Braided PTFE line from Aeroquip since about 2007. Never had one issue.

[AU Doc]

I really like the hardline, but got lazy with my car. Used Brown & Miller PTFE line fully the last few times I ran fuel lines. Be sure, whatever lines you use, that they are rated to be used with pump gas at efi pressures.

Those are two of the main things I've been wondering about. EFI fuel pressure and ethanol fuel blends.

[badazz81z28]

I custom bent my own lines from 3/8" stainless. I didn't use factory because I needed to rid the rubber center piece and the ends needed to be modified for AN anyways. They sell AN adapter fittings for that corvette filter and for the fuel connects on rails and pumps.

Plus..,I hate the "shipping bend" lines prefab companies do

[another69]

As far as the ethanol, stainless is probably best. The PTFE, from what I have read, looks to be a close 2nd but the best option when you need a flex line. I prefer the Brown & Miller because it is meant for higher pressure fuel, has a really tight bend radius, and some kind of "carbon tracer" (?) to prevent static buildup.

[ccmc]

My hard lines look like aluminum. They were already installed when I bought the car.

Rick

[DT69Cam]

Not to hijack this thread, but where can one purchase SS lines from ?? I have only seen SS lengths up to 6 feet. I would like to custom bend my own as well on my 69 Camaro. Drivers side with my LS3, not passenger side as original.

[andrewb70]

Not to hijack this thread, but where can one purchase SS lines from ?? I have only seen SS lengths up to 6 feet. I would like to custom bend my own as well on my 69 Camaro. Drivers side with my LS3, not passenger side as original.

Stainless is nice, but if you're bending your own lines, I strongly suggest NiCopp. It's way easier to work with and will not corrode. Stainless is very hard to flare.

Andrew

[gator68428]

Inline tube has everything one would need.

https://www.inlinetube.com

[DT69Cam]

Stainless is nice, but if you're bending your own lines, I strongly suggest NiCopp. It's way easier to work with and will not corrode. Stainless is very hard to flare.

Andrew

I will be using Swagelok AN fittings on the ends, no Flared ends.

[DT69Cam]

Inline tube has everything one would need.

https://www.inlinetube.com

Will they sell me an 8' length of 3/8's SS line??

[andrewb70]

I will be using Swagelok AN fittings on the ends, no Flared ends.

Those work well. I have some installed on my GTO. I did have an experience that smaller lines (5/16" and less), tend not to seal as well.

Andrew

[ULTM8Z]

Be sure, whatever lines you use, that they are rated to be used with pump gas at efi pressures.

Yeah, and whatever you do, DON'T use braided rubber!! It bleeds fuel vapors like a sieve. If you park your car in the garage like I do, the entire garage will smell like raw fuel all the time.

[DT69Cam]

Those work well. I have some installed on my GTO. I did have an experience that smaller lines (5/16" and less), tend not to seal as well.

Andrew

Thx

[timopajala]

i used hard nylon line, the same that trucks use for air bags etc. It wont expand at all and no smell comes thru it. Made my own press from old silicone press and few wooden molds to hook the nylon line and the pressed fitting.

[reedld]

I had rubber/braided stainless- gas smell terrible in my garage. I considered rigid nylon but went with Nicopp. Andrew posted a flaring video that sold me on using Nicopp. I wanted to keep my AN fittings at my pump and intake, and the adapters needed to go from nylon to AN were pricey. I bought the 37degree flare tool, Nicopp, and it bent and flared soooooo easy. No leaks or issues.

[badazz81z28]

i used hard nylon line, the same that trucks use for air bags etc. It wont expand at all and no smell comes thru it. Made my own press from old silicone press and few wooden molds to hook the nylon line and the pressed fitting.

I feel quality hose will work just fine, but you'll find out it's ridiculously expensive and will deteriorate over time. The newer cars have nylon lines, but routing is critical from road debri and heat. In the end, the steel lines on our car lasted half a century. My #1 suggestion will always be hard line. Steel tube is cheap, but SS is not much more. I use short lengths if flexible hose on both ends for body movement.

[alocker]

I used Summit branded E85 compatible braided hose with their AN fittings (I think they are private label Earl's).

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-240610bp/overview/

2 years later with E70 in the tank since day one it's holding up. I actually just inspected my fuel rail and its perfectly clean, no chunks of rubber from deterioration. This hose does not allow vapors to permeate it so fortunately some of the comments above about braided hose are no longer true.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/sum240610bp_xljpgrepFalse-1.jpg?rep=false

[badazz81z28]

See that does make for an expensive fuel system. 10Ft of hose for $70 PLUS fittings when to a 6ft length of 3/8 tube is $10

[timopajala]

I feel quality hose will work just fine, but you'll find out it's ridiculously expensive and will deteriorate over time. The newer cars have nylon lines, but routing is critical from road debri and heat. In the end, the steel lines on our car lasted half a century. My #1 suggestion will always be hard line. Steel tube is cheap, but SS is not much more. I use short lengths if flexible hose on both ends for body movement.

the heat will be problem if near headers, mine is routed about 20cm from my headers and my headers are wrapped so no problems. Debri is not so much critical whit this nylon line. We smashed it with hammer just to make sure how much hit it would take, the steel line collapses before this nylon line and after it collapses it bounses back but steel line wont. only problem is heat if you route it really close to headers.

[badazz81z28]

Collapse? Steel line won't collapse. Well yeah, if you smash it with a hammer it will flatten out. However I bet you one hard smack won't close it up. For normal use I put armor guard over my lines to protect from road debri and hammer won't even phase it.. You can't form bends either like steel. OEM used nylon because it's light and cheap,

[rickpaw]

See that does make for an expensive fuel system. 10Ft of hose for $70 PLUS fittings when to a 6ft length of 3/8 tube is $10

Yes, you'll need the 3/8 tube along the frame rails, but you'll still need the flex lines regardless at the engine/frame rail and frame rail/tank connections. On my 67, it would take roughly 6' of flex lines. You can use the cheaper lines that emits vapor, or use the expensive stuff.


...You can't form bends either like steel. OEM used nylon because it's light and cheap,

And nylon won't corrode.

[Bowtie racing]

Thank you Andrew for the tip!

[badazz81z28]

Nylon won't corrode, but will age and crack. Stainless will outlive us...and based on my oem steel lines, they last forever too in the right environment

[cpd004]

Is 3/8 the preferred size for an LS?

[eville]

Stainless is nice, but if you're bending your own lines, I strongly suggest NiCopp. It's way easier to work with and will not corrode. Stainless is very hard to flare.

Andrew

I have a Ridgid 377 AN flare tool. Will I be ok with flaring stainless 3/8 line?

[DT69Cam]

Great video, can you use that flaring tool with stainless hardline ??

[andrewb70]

Great video, can you use that flaring tool with stainless hardline ??

As I recall, the instructions say that stainless can be flared as long as the wall thickness is .035" or less.

After working with NiCopp, I don't know why anyone would use stainless.

[XLexusTech]

PTFE hose... Fragolia is the brad I used

[andrewb70]

Is 3/8 the preferred size for an LS?

Yes, unless you're planning on 600+HP

[Interceptor5588]

I'll be relatively stock with a cam, ported and polished 243 heads and headers. I expect the engine to get 500hp at the crank so I've heard that I can't use the stock fuel lines....any truth to this?

What he said. What EFI HP can you support with the factory steel lines? I believe they are 3/8" ID.

[DT69Cam]

As I recall, the instructions say that stainless can be flared as long as the wall thickness is .035" or less.

After working with NiCopp, I don't know why anyone would use stainless.

25' of NiCopp is 60.00. 6' piece of SS is 18.00 LOL If I need more or change directions, I will go with the NiCopp. Thanks Andrew.

[andrewb70]

25' of NiCopp is 60.00. 6' piece of SS is 18.00 LOL If I need more or change directions, I will go with the NiCopp. Thanks Andrew.

We all have our preferences. If SS works for you, go for it. It's a great material, but certainly harder to work with.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I case people are wondering, I have merged two threads that cover the same topic.

Andrew

[eville]

As I recall, the instructions say that stainless can be flared as long as the wall thickness is .035" or less.

After working with NiCopp, I don't know why anyone would use stainless.

I was planning to just use a factory replacement hardline and add a AN flare on the engine side

[andrewb70]

I was planning to just use a factory replacement hardline and add a AN flare on the engine side

Regular steel lines are not a problem.

[slimjim]

Last week I purchased 25' of 3/8" NiCopp and stainless clamps and with no experience knocked out my fuel line in a couple of hours, I practiced prior on spare tube, overall it was quite enjoyable and came out great. the ends are still waiting to be flared

[Jketron]

PTFE line

[cpd004]

Last week I purchased 25' of 3/8" NiCopp and stainless clamps and with no experience knocked out my fuel line in a couple of hours, I practiced prior on spare tube, overall it was quite enjoyable and came out great. the ends are still waiting to be flared

I'm eventually going to be at this point myself. I'm going to be going with Nicopp as I was quite pleased as to how it went when doing brake line. I only needed to do the front as far as that was concerned.

The fuel line has me somewhat nervous as I'm going to be basically doing it on my on the floor of the garage under the car which is just over 1' off the ground. It seems like it won't be very easy to get it tight to the body and subframe from down there.

Plus, I'll need to figure out a good way to straighten it. I think Jim said he somehow uses a truck and yanks it straight?!?

[AU Doc]

I just picked up some 3/8 NiCopp myself. First step is going to be to figure out how to straighten it.

Edit: Are you guys using gravel guard on your fuel lines?

[slimjim]

I'm eventually going to be at this point myself. I'm going to be going with Nicopp as I was quite pleased as to how it went when doing brake line. I only needed to do the front as far as that was concerned.

The fuel line has me somewhat nervous as I'm going to be basically doing it on my on the floor of the garage under the car which is just over 1' off the ground. It seems like it won't be very easy to get it tight to the body and subframe from down there.

Plus, I'll need to figure out a good way to straighten it. I think Jim said he somehow uses a truck and yanks it straight?!?

I jacked my car up and did it exactly like you plan to, the difficult bends I made using short pipe first, then basically transferred the measurements to the final piece, practice bends helped a lot.


I just picked up some 3/8 NiCopp myself. First step is going to be to figure out how to straighten it.

Edit: Are you guys using gravel guard on your fuel lines?

order some nylon window rollers, some guys made their straightener out of angle iron or similar, I merely screwed them onto a piece of wood and put a 3/8" clamps at either side, for $7 it did the job, there's a pic in my thread. I also used gravel guard where I deemed it necessary, just for a piece of mind.

[Ducs]

What are your opinions on the Russell Twist-Lok hose offered in this kit:

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=453/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd453.htm

[AU Doc]

I haven't used it yet but I bought the tanks inc kit with that hose. However, the plan for now is to run hardline from the back to the front.

[davisca455]

Couple of details to keep in mind when flaring SS tubes:
Properly preparing the tube ends is everything when working with stainless tubing. If the ends aren't smooth and burr free they can split when you try to flare them. Major disappointment will result, when after you get your tube bent to perfection, the flare splits because the end wasn't paid the attention it deserved.
I don't recommend using a rolling wheel style tube cutter either because the SS will work harden. When that happens, it's really difficult to clamp the tube well enough to keep it from slipping when performing the flaring operation.
At work, I prefer to cut the tube ends with a band saw. Then sand the ends square on the vertical belt sander. Sand enough material so that you remove all evidence that a band saw was used (remove the stress risers). Then I gently deburr the ID edge (45* countersink cutter) and carefully deburr the OD edge with a file. Make sure to thoroughly clean the inside of the tube prior to use.
At home, I have used a hacksaw, file and a 3 sided deburring knife instead of the bandsaw, belt sander and countersink cutter.

[70Uglybird]

Is this going to be fine even though it's listed as brake line?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220219-25

455 with Holley terminator, Ricks respond tank with 5th gen pump and internal reg no return.

Thanks for all the great info on thread!

[BlackHD]

Yes that will work.