Help finding off-the-shelf wheels with +25 offset [Archive]

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ignaro

08-08-2017, 08:32 AM

I'm trying to run 275 tires instead of 225 but can't find wheels with the same frontspacing in a 10" width. I need about a +25 offset or 6.5" BS.

My '66 Tempest has quarters that go over the tire so I have no outside room there and of course don't want to have my front wheels bulge out from the fenders. There's plenty of room on the inside but nearly every 10" wide wheel with a 5x4.75 bolt pattern has near-zero offset.

I've currently got 225/70r14's on (I think) 8" wide wheels. I'm trying to run 275/40r18 in front and r20 in back. With sidewall bulge, my current tires are 9.25" wide with 4.5" of backspacing, again, including sidewall bulge. By my math, that's 4.75" of frontspace so with a 10.8" tire, that's about 6". Add 1/4" for disc brakes+safety... tire calculator's 6.5"bs makes sense.

While I could keep saving my pennies, I really don't want to spend $500+ per wheel when there are lots of good looking options out there for $150-200. Can anyone point out a frugal option I'm overlooking? Perhaps +50 offset wheels that I could use with spacers?

Thanks!

ignaro

08-10-2017, 01:39 PM

Plenty of views but no replies. I'm surprised that since most of our cars have stock 8" wheels with 0 offset, that the aftermarket wheels would keep a 0 offset as they get bigger. You'd think they would increase the backspacing equally as the the wheel gets wider.

No one sells off-the-shelf 18x10" wheels with 6-7" backspacing? $700 is what I want to spend on 4 wheels, not one.

TheBandit

08-10-2017, 02:06 PM

I am having the same problem for the back of my Nova although I'm looking for 18x9 with +25mm offset in a vintage style. I've poured over offerings from American Racing, US Mags, Vision Wheel, American Legend, and countless others trying to find 1pc cast wheels with a 5x4.75 BP and +25mm offset - they don't exist; most are made in +0, a few are made in +6 and even fewer in +10 or +12. There are some 17s out there with that much offset, but tire selection is dwindling fast for 17s. I guess i shouldn't say they entirely don't exist: there is the oddball American Racing VN701 available in 18x9 with +24mm offset.

TSW makes some 1pc +25mm offset wheels in modern designs with a 5x120mm BP and a few with +20mm that might work for you. Specifically I am pretty sure the Cadwell, Monaco, Valencia and YAS are avialable with either 20-25mm offset, however I personally would not run a 5x120 on a 5x4.75. I looked into the cost of having the BP corrected on the wheels and it was running $100-150 per wheel from local wheel repair shops. Another option is to redrill your axles for 5x4.5in using a jig from Rotten leonards (~$100 plus cost of studs and your time), but that wouldn't work on my front hubs and you still wont find many wheels available.

At this point I am actually considering narrowing my rearend 1" per side which would allow use of more common +0offset wheels. In the process I could switch to ford bearings to eliminate the c-clips and use upgraded alloy axles. Total cost is pretty similar, in fact a little cheaper if you consider the differnece between 1pc and 2pc wheels. But this starts a long snowball and racks up costs quickly. Here's what I was thinking:

My preferred wheel is an 18" Rally with a traditional step lip. I have found a few manufacturers of 1pc cast versions. Here is a summary of my findings:

Rev 107 in gray/diamond cut lip or fully polished +0offset only 18x7 18x8 18x9 (none of these will fit in the rear)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/Rev_107_wheel_5lug_polished_18x9500-1.png https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/Rev_107_wheel_5lug_silver_17x9500-1.png

Vision 55 18x8.5 in -6, +10, +32, +38mm, 18x9.5+0mm
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/vision_557883_17x8150958300500-1.png

American Legend Cruiser 18x7 +6, 18x8 +0, 18x9 +6mm
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/CRUISER_POLISHED-1.jpg

Of those the I prefer the Rev 107s, but none of the offsets would work in the back. The Vision 55 comes in higher offsets so I ordered a set of +10 and +32mm, assuming I would use 1/4" spacer in the back to bring that +32 closer to +25. The cost was about $750 including center caps. Further since the +32 only comes with a 5x120mm bolt pattern instead of 5x4.75, I assumed I would either modify the wheel or the axle to get a matching bolt pattern (adding another couple hundred dollars to the cost, total about $1k). I was willing to go through that trouble and incremental cost if they looked right, but when they arrived I found that while the +10 had a complete step lip design, the +32 had much narrower lip and didn't look right/matched. I decided not to buy them because they wouldn't match front to rear. Here are photos:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/ly6swap1022-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/ly6swap1023-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/ly6swap1024-1.jpg

That was a big disappointment because the +10 version of the wheel looked good, but the lip on the +32mm version ruined them for me. I also didn't really like how dark the centers were.

Another option is to go with custom 2pc wheels. Circle Racing makes a very nice 2pc billet rally wheel with a stepped lip. American Racing and US Mags also have billet rally wheels with smooth lips, but I really like the traditional step lip. Cost for the Circle Racing billet rallies with center caps would be about $2,000 for a set including center caps. This route would enable custom offsets front and rear.

Another option I've been kicking around is narrowing the rear to allow the use of more widely available low/no offset 1pc wheels that have a little more dish to them. If I did this, I would use Moser or Strange ends that accept the larger Ford bearings and eliminate the c-clips. That would give me the benefits of new higher strength axles with bigger bearings and ease of R&R, plus if I decide to change wheels later I might have better luck getting something off the shelf. It hinges on the assumption that a low offset wheel would work for the front; I need to do the math on that still. Assuming I did the narrowing myself, I would have to get a set of alignment pucks and an alignment bar. This involves doing considerably more work on my end. Here is how the costs pan out for the two above options.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/2pcvs1pcnarrowrear-1.jpg

So despite the cost of custom axles tools and parts, the overall cost of the narrowing approach is a bit lower since 1pc cast-in-China wheels are so much cheaper than billet 2pc wheels made in the USA. Pros: stronger axles, eliminate c-clip more dish to the wheels, likely more availability to change wheel styles down the road Cons: work/risk involved in narrowing the rear, China-cast wheels, likely extended time with the car down.

Further if I narrow the rear I would also want to swap the brakes, so I would probably go with '98-02 F-body "LS1" brakes adding even more cost.

USAZR1

08-10-2017, 03:09 PM

An 18x8 w/4.5" backspace will not work on a 68-72 Nova, front or rear?? Most one-piece 18x9 wheels I've seen, come in a zero offset. (5" bs) To most wheel makers, a 9" width wheel with +25 offset (6" bs) is considered a custom sizing, not off-the-shelf., and that's going to necessitate a two-piece wheel.

TheBandit

08-10-2017, 03:14 PM

I'll start by saying every car is different and it depends on the ride height. One side of my Nova has 4.625" from WMS to the inside of the quarter panel. If I use a 0 offset wheel (like an 18x8 w/ 4.5BS) and say a 10" wide 255 series tire, I would have 5" of tire protruding from the WMS while I only have 4.625" clearance.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/ly6swap1021-1.jpg

Above are all my measurements. The passenger side measured 6-3/4" WMS to the inside, 4-3/4" to the outside. The driver's side was 7" WMS to the inside, 4-5/8" to the outside. I could roughly center the tire with 1" (+25.4mm) offset wheels.

dhutton

08-10-2017, 03:36 PM

USAZR1

08-10-2017, 03:49 PM

I guess it's "Get Out The Checkbook" time,Clint. lol

gator68428

08-10-2017, 05:06 PM

ignaro

08-11-2017, 08:55 AM

I think this is probably one of your best options:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VISION-143-Torque-18X9-5-5x4-75-12-Gunmetal-Mach-Lip-Qty-of-1-/182208827165?epid=1322223912&hash=item2a6c7e0f1d:g:8q4AAOSw2gxY0Cmw&vxp=mtr

Although I have to admit after reading your post I'm not certain what you are looking for...

You can run a 275 tire on these no problem.

Don

Thanks, that wheel is definitely one of the closest to what I need. Unfortunately the 6.75" backspacing is only on the 5x120mm bolt pattern. That's painfully close to 5x4.75 but i understand that won't fit on 5x120.65. :\

ignaro

08-11-2017, 08:57 AM

C5 corvette wheels are the best option I've found. That's what I've been doing since 2006. Stock c5 vette rear wheels are 18x9.5 with 58mm offset (~7.6" BS). And the Z06's are 18x10.5 with 58mm offset ~8 BS. With quality adapter/spacers its a solid option.

I've always spent more on tires, than wheels... Not sure if I should be proud of that, but It's served me well (knock on wood ;-) ... factory used vette wheels on proper adapters are perfectly safe IMHO)

Your options:
1. the checkbook.
2. chinese wheels
3. Robust, high perf, lightweight used c5 factory wheels, with adapter/spacers
4. Chinese vette replicas with spacers/adapters (I did this for a while, but mainly just cruising with occasional AutoX)

Thanks, I was considering this and didn't know if it was doable. This definitely seems like an option. I'm looking for a 19 or 20" rear wheel since the rear wheel well is so large on my Tempest. The 19 and 20" Corvette rears are +75mm or something. That's pushing it... Using just the 18"'s is an option though. Thanks

dhutton

08-11-2017, 09:07 AM

Thanks, that wheel is definitely one of the closest to what I need. Unfortunately the 6.75" backspacing is only on the 5x120mm bolt pattern. That's painfully close to 5x4.75 but i understand that won't fit on 5x120.65. :\

The wheel I listed is 9.5" with 5.75 backspacing which should work if you need 6" backspacing on a 10" wheel. I don't think I have seen someone use higher backspacing on a 60's A body....

I have used 5x120 wheels on a 5x4.75 hub without issue. This is a highly debated subject to say the least....

Don

ignaro

08-11-2017, 09:14 AM

...narowing the rear to allow the use of more widely available low/no offset 1pc wheels

That's a really interesting idea. I had been thinking of replacing my rear end after doing wheels and brakes with a 12-bolt that has the same 4-link and width. I should do some research there. Perhaps I can stay with the same 4-link and shorten the rear. In the interim, I'd use wheel spacers on my old wheels until I was ready to do 1pc wheels and tires.
From what I've seen on this forum, it would be nice to keep the same tire width in the front and back for running through windy roads and light autoX. I would still need the high offset on the front to achieve that.

I'll take another look at those Vision 57 Rally/Rev 107s. My car is light yellow (it's grown on me so I'm keeping that)-- and dark grey wheels would look nice. Thanks

USAZR1

08-11-2017, 09:20 AM

Thanks, I was considering this and didn't know if it was doable. This definitely seems like an option. I'm looking for a 19 or 20" rear wheel since the rear wheel well is so large on my Tempest. The 19 and 20" Corvette rears are +75mm or something. That's pushing it... Using just the 18"'s is an option though. Thanks

Just for comparison, American Racing offers this wheel in an 18x8, 18x9, and 18x10 with backspacing that will fit your Tempest. The 20x10 will,too. These wheel can be bought for less than $600/set, if you shop around.

ignaro

08-11-2017, 10:11 AM

Just for comparison, American Racing offers this wheel in an 18x8, 18x9, and 18x10 with backspacing that will fit your Tempest. The 20x10 will,too. These wheel can be bought for less than $600/set, if you shop around.

Really? Can you give me an idea of where to go for that price? The American Racing site says the MSRP for the custom grey rally wheel is $564/wheel for 18x10 and $650 for 20x10. I don't see any non-custom wheels with around +30 offset or 10" width with 6.75" backspacing.
For comparison, the AR105M TT in Anthracite (another wheel I like a lot) is only available with 0 offset in 5x4.75 bolt pattern...

...should I look into changing my bolt pattern...? (leaves to do research)

USAZR1

08-11-2017, 10:25 AM

Really? Can you give me an idea of where to go for that price? The American Racing site says the MSRP for the custom grey rally wheel is $564/wheel for 18x10 and $650 for 20x10. I don't see any non-custom wheels with around +30 offset or 10" width with 6.75" backspacing.
For comparison, the AR105M TT in Anthracite (another wheel I like a lot) is only available with 0 offset in 5x4.75 bolt pattern...

...should I look into changing my bolt pattern...? (leaves to do research)

The wheels I mentioned are VN215's. They are one-piece. At those prices you quoted, you're obviously looking at their two-piece wheels, much more expensive. My question is this, if you can get a one-piece wheel with the desired width and offset, why spend the money for a two-piece? My car's VN215 20x10's w/5.75" backspace cost me $165/each. That same size wheel in a two-piece is triple the cost.

Why do you need a 10" wheel with so much backspace,for your car? Have you actually measured your rear wheelwells to see what exactly will fit?

TheBandit

08-11-2017, 10:29 AM

The wheels I mentioned are VN215's. They are one-piece.

If I'm reading the catalog correctly, the VN215s in 18" diameter only come in +0 and +6mm offsets. The 17" diameter versions have more offsets available.
http://www.americanracing.com/wheelSpecs/5685/2221/18850/vn215-classic-torq-thrust-ii-1-piece

USAZR1

08-11-2017, 11:13 AM

You won't find one-piece wheels with lots of offset options. Doing so would require a new casting for each different backspacing,,not very cost-effective.

You need a custom offset,Clint. Ignaro probably does not.

TheBandit

08-11-2017, 11:18 AM

Sorry I was under the impression from his first and followup posts that he needs around +25mm offset. Maybe I misunderstood the conversation.

Ignaro have you measured from your wheel mounting surface (WMS) to the inside and outside of your wheelwell? That will help you determine how much offset is needed.

ignaro

08-11-2017, 11:42 AM

Thanks Clint,
Yes, I measured the clearance relative to the 225/70r14's that are on there now. On the front and back, I have over 3" of room on the inside. The fronts could come out a bit on the outside before they look wrong but the rear quarter panel comes over the tire. The inner quarter/wheel well is surprisingly thick so I have very little clearance as-is. I can cut and modify that wheelwell if needed but shouldn't plan for any additional frontspacing. Since my current wheels are 14x8 with zero offset (I think), any additional width would have to be just on the back side-- hence the offset. If I stick with 225 tires, I could do 0 offset. My research says 295's are the maximum, I'd like to do 275's which fit nicely on a 9.5 or 10" wheel.

Tire diameter/height is my other concern. The front should stay around 26.4" as it is now. The back I'd like to be at least 28" to fill the wheel well better. I have 1" lowering springs so the tire change would give me a 1" rake which would be an improvement. I can't find a decent summer tire that's 28" tall on an 18" rim so I think I'll be going 18 in front and 20 in back. A dark-colored wheel would help make that look less silly.

i'm surprised that the wider 1pc wheels from American Racing and similar would fit on cars where the stock width was 7 or 8". I know some people can put aftermarket flares on it. That looks great on a Datsun 240 or something-- I get that custom cars mean varied backspacing. I just wonder who's buying the 18x12" wheels with 0 offset.

TheBandit

08-11-2017, 11:51 AM

If you haven't yet you really should measure your current wheels and make sure you have the backspacing and width correct. Keep in mind that an 8" wheel width means 8" where the inside of the tire contacts the wheel flanges - the wheel would actually measure about 1" wider if you measure the outside surfaces of the flanges. Also the backspacing measurement is taken from the outside of the wheel flange to the wheel mounting surface. For a zero offset wheel, the backspacing will be half the wheel width plus 1/2" (to account for the wheel flange). For example, a 14x8" wheel with zero offset would have 4.5" backspacing.

Also consider that a larger sidewall like what you probably have on your 14" wheel will result in more tire bulge than what a low profile tire will have on a larger wheel. You might want to measure your current tire's section width by laying the tire on the concrete, laying a straight edge across the tire, and then measuring down to the concrete. For your new tires, look up the section width on something like TireRack and pay attention to the measured wheel width which is the wheel they used when measuring the section width. If you use a different width wheel, you will get a different section width and I've heard the change is about 0.2" section change for 0.5" width change on a typical aspect ratio tire.

Also in addition to taking relative dimensions from your current tires, you may want to just completely remove the wheel and measure from the WMS to the body as I showed in my photos above. You may get a different answer on your needs.

ignaro

08-11-2017, 01:36 PM

Thanks a ton for the advice. I'll definitely remeasure before buying. I did measure the current wheels with the tires mounted. The tires with sidewall bulge are 9 3/8" wide. The backspacing with bulge is 4 3/8". I'd guess there's 3/8" of tire outside the wheel so the entire wheel is 8.5-9" wide, so a 14x7.5 or 8" wheel. Hard to say. Likewise with the backspacing and offset-- it's around zero.
Kore3 brakes will add another quarter inch on each side. Right now I'm trying to figure out what I think I want-- then I'll find a tire shop that has one of these (http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/40117542+w750+st0/1204phr-16+wheel-and-tire-fitment+tire.jpg). The body wheel wells, etc are all odd shapes so it makes it hard to measure accurately from the WMS.

I'm looking at Cray (http://www.craycorvettewheels.com/corvette-wheels-rims-astoria/) and other Corvette wheels, though even those are $470/wheel. There are some with +37 to +50mm offsets, though they're quite aggressive for a 66 Tempest. I imagine I can get the tire shop to confirm my optimal offset, then I'll run 1/4" spacers or so. That would be fine.
Thanks again.

TheBandit

08-11-2017, 01:59 PM

The tires with sidewall bulge are 9 3/8" wide. The backspacing with bulge is 4 3/8".

Backspacing is not usually measured from the tire bulge, but assuming you put a straightedge across the tire sidewall and measured to the wheel mounting surface, I think your current wheels have about negative 5/16" of offset (the wheel is offset outward by 5/16"). The way I calculated this was by taking half of your tire section width (9.375 divided by 2 = 4.6875) and comparing that with the backspacing you measured (4.375 - 4.9875 = -0.3125).

You should measure more carefully to be certain, but let's play with math assuming your current tires have sufficient front side clearance.... the front of your current sidewall is at 9.375-4.375 = 5" from the WMS. You said you want a taller tire, so looking at the Potenza S-04 in a 265/45R18 (diameter 27.4in) it has a section width of 10.5in. If you want the front sidewall of that tire to be the same place as your current tire (5" from the WMS), you would need 10.5/2 - 5" = 0.25in of offset (1/4" or about +6mm). The back side of your current tire is 4.375 from the WMS while this new tire would be 10.5/2+0.25 = 5.5" from the WMS, or about 1-5/8" further inward than your current tire.

ignaro

08-11-2017, 04:21 PM

Backspacing is not usually measured from the tire bulge, but assuming you put a straightedge across the tire sidewall and measured to the wheel mounting surface, I think your current wheels have about negative 5/16" of offset (the wheel is offset outward by 5/16"). The way I calculated this was by taking half of your tire section width (9.375 divided by 2 = 4.6875) and comparing that with the backspacing you measured (4.375 - 4.9875 = -0.3125).

You should measure more carefully to be certain, but let's play with math assuming your current tires have sufficient front side clearance.... the front of your current sidewall is at 9.375-4.375 = 5" from the WMS. You said you want a taller tire, so looking at the Potenza S-04 in a 265/45R18 (diameter 27.4in) it has a section width of 10.5in. If you want the front sidewall of that tire to be the same place as your current tire (5" from the WMS), you would need 10.5/2 - 5" = 0.25in of offset (1/4" or about +6mm). The back side of your current tire is 4.375 from the WMS while this new tire would be 10.5/2+0.25 = 5.5" from the WMS, or about 1-5/8" further inward than your current tire.

Thanks a ton. I'll definitely be re-measuring. I'm out of the country for now or I'd start pulling the wheels off again. It seems strange that I would have a -8mm offset but the wheels look like 20 year old AR Daisy wheels so who knows.

I could absolutely settle for a medium-width tire like a 255 or 265 and buy less expensive wheels but I don't think I'd be as happy with that. Folks here convinced me that I want to keep a square setup so I'd like to fit a 275 or higher.

Although measuring off my tire should be reasonably accurate, I would feel much more confident with one of those adjustable tire-mount tools, especially since I can 'try out' tires before buying them. Thanks again for your help.

ignaro

08-15-2017, 10:13 AM

After a weekend of research, the only positive-offset wheels that are 5x4.75 and not custom are C5 and up Corvette wheels. The lowest they go is +37mm which should fit well with spacers. They're also available in 18" 19" and 20" and a variety of widths around 10". I'm currently looking at the gunmetal Cray Astoria in 18 and 19x10'ish with a +37 offset. They're about $500/wheel and seem like a good option. I'm going to photoshop that aggressively modern look onto my car to see whether it is indeed what I want. Regardless of design, this is something that fits the size I'm after and my budget. That's a good development in a world where wheels are regularly twice that.

I'll probably be running Pirelli P Zero Rosso tires in 285/45/19 in back and 285/40/18 in front. Not enough sizes from Pilot Sports or other renown street tires. That's 1" extra of wheel plus 1" extra of tire in the rear. Should give a nice mild staggered look. Careful Photoshop will hopefully give me the answer.
All input is welcome!

gator68428

08-15-2017, 10:50 AM

I would also check with Bob at house of wheels. He sells quality reproductions as well as used and new factory wheels.

http://houseofwheelsonline.com/corvette_copies.php

I bought my Speedlines from him (18x10.5" all around). He gets them brand new, made in Italy.

Also check ebay and the Corvette forum. Used wheels being sold all the time.

67rally

08-17-2017, 06:59 AM

Here are two ebay options. 18x10 and 18x9.5, 5x4.75", +25mm offset

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18x10-DRIFZ-Wheels-25-5x120-65-74-1-309A-N2O-Rims-Satin-Anthracite-Set/232378567512 :$680/set
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/309an20satinanthracite-1.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18x9-5-TOUREN-Wheels-25-5x120-65-74-1-TR20-Rims-Matte-Black-Set-of-4/232336293906 : $575/set
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/08/tourentr20matteblackmachinedfaceundercut-1.jpg

ignaro

08-18-2017, 05:09 PM

ebay options.

Oh man, these are great! thanks!
Just how terrible are these wheels? I'm not looking for high-end performance but I also don't want a wheel to break when I hit a pothole. I'm thinking I'd buy higher-end tires and lower-end wheels to save some money. I'm also not certain enough that I'll like the look of any wheels I get so spending less is very appealing.

Has anyone had experience using these in an aggressive fashion? I'll be driving in a spirited manner, doing just-for-fun autoX. No real racing. Google reviews are good.