waterborne vs solvent. Good - bad and the ugly?? Post pics of your paint

[Shawn01754]

After enjoying many years it's time to pull my Gto apart for paint. Good news is, target date of April 15th. I'm confident I found a great guy to do the car. But I was wondering about the paint we'll use. I don't even know if solvent is legal. I guess the clear comes into play? I'm in Ma. Waterborne vs solvent based car paints? Does the waterborne paint look as good as solvent based. I think I can tell the difference. Waterborne is what you see on Mercedes and European cars. Muscle cars have been solvent based. I'm not saying waterborne doesn't look good, but the clears seem thinner to me. What do you guys prefer? I still have a gallon of chroma clear in my stock.
Post pics if you want to show what you like
Thanks.

[jlcustomz]

One big thing on waterbourne is it needs proper airflow to dry, which is bad for any of us home shop painters. In my area, I can still buy any solvent paint from a supplier, but most paint shops won't agree to sell it. Last stuff I bought was from southern polyurethanes, which will sell you directly if they don't have a distributor in your area. The main concern for using solvents at home in many states is not getting reported or caught by the wrong people, such as the EPA. The waterbourne industry does have some claims , such as more vibrant colors possible, but I can't see any other benefits other than epa compliance.
Even if you're paying someone with a proper shop for waterbourne, I think most still prefer solvent, particularly for custom work.

[HotRod47]

I will say this.......

Look at what most of the top pro builders are using, Water. Solvent has a dirty look to it form the VOC's, water is much cleaner and pops more. The clear is still solvent based, urethane in most cases so no worries there.

What is your painter wanting to use? Go with that, period. If he isn't comfortable and properly trained in a certain product then it shouldn't be used. In Mass you have both as options so you are covered there. I'm in CT so we both have that. I just sprayed my project and did it in PPG water wanting the latest technology and wanting that "look" There are many reasons to go water, I could spend all day on that, bottom line for me was that look that can not be duplicated in solvent.


Click on the link in my signature and see what I just did on my car. Sprayed it myself.

Glenn

[Shawn01754]

Met with the painter today. He had an absolutely beautiful Porsche he just finished buffing. The paint was to die for. He said this is what your car finis will look like. Enough Said on that. (It's solvent based across the board). The Maverick looks great, and who doesn't love ppg? They make great products. He has a newer booth, but not quite set up for waterborne. He said he could modify it, but not just yet. Thanks guys, keep up the amazing work!!

[keith4909]

Get that in writing and don't pay until he is finished. More bad body guys then good these days.

[MonzaRacer]

I did some painting last year for a buddy, one was the economy base/clear from NAPA. Looked good.
The last car was frame rails of 2013 Hyundai Elantra. Found out we could get premixed TecBase only,got it in spray cans and got it sold to us for cost and then cleared with last of economy clear from first job.
I love proving that some specs are not needed.
I have shot laquer and TecBase *love Martin-Senour(sherwin-Williams) and have always used my Campbell-Hausefield PH6500 $40 gun shot color and clear from same gun, never cranked pressure up as high as they say, used proper mixing techniques and have always wound up with good metallic/flake/mica coverage, no orange peel and actually glass smooth lay down.
And I am by far not a professional but was instructed by my uncle who was one.
Good Luck.
The

[sccacuda]

I was very resistant to water, you get used to something and don't want to change. I have a good friend that is an Axalta tech rep. When I painted my car, he wanted me to do two spray outs, solvent and water. Mixed the same color in each and sprayed and cleared. They are the same color, but it appeared the water is a "richer" color. It probably has to do with the extremely high solid content of water based base. On orange, it covered in 1-1/2 coats as apposed to 3-4 with solvent. This is where solvent painters have issue's, your not going to "bury" anything in the base coat; it will show everything. It does take a booth equipped with blowers, and the humidity level plays a key role in how long it takes to flash each coat. If he's setup for water, no reason not to use it, but if not, solvent is going to be the way to go.

[NOT A TA]

Humidity here in S. FL makes waterborne take too long. A bunch of local shops tried it a few years ago and even using booths with bake cycle it slowed production. I have to paint today. Just checked and humidity is 88% now so if I was using water based who knows how long it would take to flash or cure since I can't bake.

[sccacuda]

Humidity here in S. FL makes waterborne take too long. A bunch of local shops tried it a few years ago and even using booths with bake cycle it slowed production. I have to paint today. Just checked and humidity is 88% now so if I was using water based who knows how long it would take to flash or cure since I can't bake.

The high humidity works well with water. It gives you plenty of time to lay down a wet coat without chasing a dry line. The correct reducers or accelerators for water and humidity are important, but the correct airflow and blower placement in the booth is key. Not going to shoot it in the garage!

[Shawn01754]

Well, soon enough the EPA will tell us how to build and paint out cars. some day it will pro touring electric cars with vinyl wrap

[HotRod47]

Met with the painter today. He had an absolutely beautiful Porsche he just finished buffing. The paint was to die for. He said this is what your car finis will look like. Enough Said on that. (It's solvent based across the board). The Maverick looks great, and who doesn't love ppg? They make great products. He has a newer booth, but not quite set up for waterborne. He said he could modify it, but not just yet. Thanks guys, keep up the amazing work!!

Sounds like you have your man. As I said before and always recommend, water or solvent, paint brand vs paint brand, paint the car with whatever he is comfortable with, period. Your painter has to be comfortable with the products he is using, or problems could happen. I favor PPG as they are nice enough to send me a paycheck ever two weeks and its what I know, but in general all the major 5 have great products.

Best of luck to you, keep us all posted.

[vintageracer]

Wrap it!

[MonzaRacer]

As some stated, waterborne is critical in its drying scheme, this is why most big shops have heated, downdraft booth. with heat and air flow waterborne will cure, not dry, in rainstorm.
I actually helped shoot both recently, and I do agree about coverage to a point. I saw many colors that laid down better, some worse. Certain shades and colors work better than others. Many of the current colors are actually developed IN WATER. So recreating the effect in solvent is impossible thus necessitating a full repaint.
I am still not sold on durability as I have seen many water borne paint jobs and the paint not living up to durability claims. I am sure they are progressing, but I still reserve full opinion for another 10-20 yrs.
I have seen water borne jobs that were actually painted by manufacturer trained painters and the car need repainted in less than 5 yrs. others look great. Do your research on product and shop, ask questions and then decide.

[jlcustomz]

Though not car paint I recently used industrial water born coatings at work.
One is multi surface acrylic from the Sherwin Williams professional stores. Only used with a brush so far. The other was PPG breakthrough, from PPG home & commercial Paint stores, not related to the auto product stores. Both seem similar & are not to be confused with latex paint. Sprayed home door , frame, & trim parts with the ppg as well as a couple of samples of the white color on top of some probably baked on enamel aluminum material as a sample. Both are self priming on fiberglass, vinyl, pvc, & some other difficult materials. The almost pinkish red color the customer requested took about 4 coats over white to look decent, 2 or 3 over grey primer.
Though way too early to tell durability, the ppg did dry to the touch & enough for handling pretty quickly under hot & dry conditions, but was a little slow drying spraying indoors on a damp day even with moderate ventilation fans AND a wall ac unit to run after spraying. A week later the white sample on white baked enamel isn't as scratch resistant as the baked on , but neither would be an automotive single stage or bc/cc paint.
I'll be doing some more customer home doors with the ppg later , so will be getting more practice with it. Only used satin/ eggshell finishes so far, not gloss. I will go as far as to say that for someone inexperienced or just freshening up an old beater wanting to do a cheaper OR do a less smelly to the neighbors paint job that these paints could be considered.
For someone with automotive level paint skills wanting to spray cabinets, entrance doors, etc , at home or at a work shop , I'd definitely say try these products. The ppg breakthrough took just a hint of thinning with water to use with a 1.8 tip commercial hvlp gun. I read somewhere you could actually use a hint of mineral spirits to help it flow out & not hurt it.

Though slightly off topic, thought I'd share. We all paint different schtuff from time to time.