Need Help in building the Perfect Suspension for my budget

[Andrew McBride]

I am looking to build a car with the right stance, but still performs well in handling. As we all know these cars are not the most comfortable as far as the ride goes.
This Car is a 68 Camaro that will be driven on the street. I am building this car for comfort for those long hauls to car shows. Now being a college student my budget has to be a little more thought out. Sure, I would love to order a new wayne due subframe but that will have to wait till after college where my funding will be less of an issue. Don't get me wrong I am not building a car that is thrown together, I am taking my time/saving but wanting to order the right parts. Any input would be great. Thanks, Andrew
Forgot to mention- I am running a small block 350 w.T400 Tranny, C5 corvette brakes.



Here is what I am thinking:
2"drop leaf springs-what brand?
F Sway bar-brand? possibly Hotchkis
upper control arms-what brand for the $, was leaning towards speedtech?
shocks: F and R should I use?
drop coil springs-brand?
Should I just save and buy coil overs, or is it needed?
if so what brand?

[dennis68]

DSE kinda specializes in early F bodies, I'd use them for the leafs

Leave the stabar alone until you get the rest of the suspension dialed in, then worry about how much bar you need.It is a tuning tool.

Arms are all pretty much the same, I personally like the 30.00 arms from the local circle track supply, but I am real cheap and can make anything work eventually.

If you don't use coil overs buy good shocks, Bilstein are good.

If you want to use coil springs, contact coil spring specailties. They will custom build springs to your spec

coil overs are the ultimate-you'll be best saving and buying some nice QA1's.

[rumblee]

Im not sure what you mean by wanting to build the car for comfort, but putting stiff springs and shocks under it arent gonna help in that department. I mean its not going to be a cadillac. You are heading in the right direction to improve handling though.

[Andrew McBride]

what I was getting at was that the car will be a street car only. I know the car isn't going to ride that well period, but I want to give it a comfortable streetable suspension. The main point was that this isn't going to be a track car, just street driving. I am just trying to get some feel for what I need to start buying for my suspension since I am at that stage. Any more input on this would be great. Thanks,


Andrew

[TitoJones]

As per Chicane years ago for my stock framed 68 Camaro:

1012 Upper control arm bushings (Global West)
1013 Lower control arm bushings (Global West)
702 Offset shafts (Global West)
Adj-2 Tie rod sleeves (Global West)
801 Subframe bushings (-1/2") (Global West)
900 Subframe connectors (Global West)
103-sh Rear shackel kit (Global West)
TOM1 Custom rear spring (E+C Spring)
6041 Front spring -2.25/-2.5 Coils (MOOG)
? Upper Ball Joint (MOOG)
? Lower Ball Joint (MOOG)
? Inner Tie Rod (MOOG)
? Outer Tie Rod (MOOG)
? Pitman Arm (MOOG)
? Idler Arm (MOOG)
? Drag Link (good used, hard to find new)

3/4 to 15/16 Sway Bar -Custom made- (Hellwig)

Bilstein Shocks -Custom Valaved- (Bilstein)

Steering Box 12:1 / 35lb valve (LEE)
Steering Pump Alloy Sagnaw (CV Products)
Rag Joint Poly u-thane (LEE)

Rear End 3.42 ratio (US GEAR)
Limited Slip Eaton 12b / 3s (Eaton)

Front brakes 13" PBR 'track' (Baer)
Rear brakes 12" PBR 'track' (Baer)

Guldstrand Control arm modification with stock upper
and lower control arms (I boxed the lowers on my 67)

I am going to be installing the new Global West upper
control arms.....they greatly reduce bump steer and
add a whole bunch of caster, so we will soon see how
the GRA modification and GW arms work together.

Sway bar- I have Scott himself bend the bars I need. I
run a 3/4" on my 67'. I also have 13/16 and 15/16 bars
and really like the 3/4" best.

Shocks are custom valved and need a special part
number to order with the required valving. Depending
on chassis set-up and engine mods, will determine
valving to be used.

The above MOOG part numbers I havent with me but they
are directly out of the MOOG catalog.

The front spring out of the box will need an initial
cut of 2 1/4 coils. I then would drive them for a
couple of weeks to 'settle' them and THEN, trim to
ride height. This is a little more time consuming, but
the end product is on the money.

The rear springs are made by a friend of mine, I can
give you the spring on paper or help you out by having
him wittle up a set or two. Ride height must be noted
before build!!!!! So that it can be built into the
spring as much as possible....will still need the use
of 1" rear lowering blocks, available through
Guldstrand. Also need 1/2" 'U' bolts for the
differential to spring.

I used all but the rear springs on my old chassis and was very happy with the end result.
Tyler

[MrQuick]

Hey Tyler, was that an ATS sticker I saw on an "Overhaulin" episode? congrates!
Anyways on the springs fronts first. Moog 6041 I assume they are 1st gen f body and 2nd gen X body with AC what kinda spring rates are we talkin. I think the stock is rated at 450-500 lbs but how much increase with the cuts? I remember it does increase abit with less coils.I know Also would you know the rates for the rear? Tom likes them high so I was just wondering.
Thanks

[Marcus SC&C]

Andrew we`ve done quite a few cars at the shop for customers who wanted the same thing you do,a really nice to drive car that handles very well too. We did a `70 Nova awhile ago with a recipe that worked out great. Maybe it`ll help you some. The low RC height and poor camber curves of these cars normally require stiff springs,bar(s) and stiff shocks to make them handle well. To get away from that we corrected the geometry first. You can`t do that with tubular UCAs! They *cannot* raise the RC height or change the camber curves or improve the bumpsteer. What they do is add + caster which has a small effect on the camber when turning and bumpsteer. You can get than in other ways. I did the Guldstrand mod first (it`s one of the other ways I mentioned and it`s free!),added Del-a-lum bushings in the LCAs. For springs we used Moog big block springs cut 1 coil up front (customer didn`t want it super low) which yielded about 550lbs/in if I remember right. Stock multi leafs out back,dearched about an inch. 1" front bar. To further alter the geometry we used (at the time they were prototypes) tall stud modular upper ball joints and tall stud modular tie rod ends to correct the bumpsteer. At the time these were the first ones used on this type of car,we have them made for us by Howe Racing (if you want to check them out see www.SCandC.com ). The corrected geometry is really quite good,even by modern car standards. Adj. Pole Position upper arms let us dial the alignment in exactly where we wanted it even with the altered geometry. I prefer to use adj. QA1 shocks but the car`s owner is a big KYB fan so we ran those all around. The result was a car that sat a little lower than stock,actually rode better than stock (no wallowing) and it handles really well. It`s very predictable and really easy to drive fast in the twisties despite it`s 15" retro rubber. I`d love to try it out with some good Z rated 17s. I`m doing a similar setup on a `69 442 at the shop now (except it`s running tall LBJs which also helps fix the bumpsteer on that chassis instead of the G mod). We`re using the adj. QA1s on this one. Nice thing is once the geometry is right, if you decide you want to turn it into a serious hardcore corner burner later it`ll work even better with stiffer springs etc. Marcus SC&C

[yody]

heres a generic combo;
I would basically buy the whole hotchkis setup inlcuding
rear springs without their bushings/shackles(see below)
front springs small block
front hollow swaybar
custom valved billstein shocks
maybe some tubular tie rod sleeves(that don't do all that much)
speedtech tubular upper control arms with aluminum/delrin bushing
global west subframe connectors
global west solid body mounts
Global west del a lum bushings in leaf springs (including front spring eye and shackle)and lower control arm
No rear swaybar
gulstrand mod
moog tierods/balljoints,and center/pitman/drag link
fairly simple, decent ride, good handling, easy to get parts.

[yody]

and by the way, Some Good Tires!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I would use DSE Tubular UCA
Koni Adjustables all the way around
Hotchkis 1 1/8" hollow front bar or solid 1" bar to save some money
DSE SFCs
Some 17" wheels with sticky tires.
DSE 2 or 3" drop leafs depending on how low you want to go and DSE drop springs up front.

[Andrew McBride]

well I think I am getting a better feel for what suspension mods I need to do. I believe I am going to start the buildup on my 67 subframe from my 67 RS since I need to keep my 68 on all 4 wheels for paint, plus this gives me time to save up on these parts.

1. Speedtech upper control arms
2.koni adjustable shocks w/small block springs
3. hotchkis F sway bar
4. speedtech tie rod sleeves
5.moog tierods
6. Detroit Speed drop leaf springs
7. homemade subframe connectors. (bolt on) -already undercoated my underbody w/rhino liner.

I am running 17" Boyds w/ Kumho tires.
Does this sound like the right suspension idea? I appreciate the responses. Thanks

Andrew

[rumblee]

bolt on subframe connectors arent nearly as effective as weld on units, but will be better than nothing.

[Fuelie Fan]

Markus:
Could you post some pictures of that Nova. I am also trying to put together a Nova, and it sounds like I have very similar tastes to the guy who's car you put together. I think with the non-radiused wheelwells, the Novas don't look as good lowered or with larger wheels as the camaros do. I want my subtly lower, I'll probably run 16" wheels

Andy

[David Pozzi]

Andrew,
What are your tire sizes F/R?
How much horsepower do you have?
When you say "small block springs" which specific springs are you considering?
David

[Marcus SC&C]

Andy,sorry but the only pics I have of that car are of the suspension with the front clip off and the motor/trans out so they won`t do much good to show the ride height and stance. FWIW though I agree with you 100% about Nova wheel wells,wheel/tire size and stance. Mark

[Andrew McBride]

David,

I will be running a ram jet 350 with around 350 HP turbo 400 tranny. I am unsure what size tires I have. I am away from my car. they are Kumho tires with 17x8 W/4.5" BS Front and 17x9.5 w/5.5"BS in rear.
I was thinking about Hotchkis coil springs. Any suggestions? or comments would be awesome. Thanks, Andrew

[68BNUT]

Who sales the DSE stuff ????

[Ralph LoGrasso]

www.detroitspeed.com

They also have some vendors now I believe.