Young Person Rant

[06RangerSTX]

Do not get me wrong; I may not be considered as one of the Young people (Age 33) that people seem to want to get involved with the pro-touring community. I read Pro-Touring articles that state time and time again that they are concerned about getting a younger audience into the sport. But a big BUT, I myself have dreamed to be involved in this community for over 18 years now and still could not even dream about being involved with this sport. I love this sport to no end and want to see it prevail! but Pro-Touring cars are not Hondas that have parts by the dozens ready for you to just bolt on. I mean most of the younger crowd on this site seem to be associated through a family member or have a job inside the industry. As for me, coming from the outside I can only window shop so to speak when it comes to a project worthy of this site.

When it comes to cost of being involved, I have not seen many vehicles on this site that is competing in the autocross events costing much less than say $20,000 US. I know that I sound like a crazed lunatic for talking like this, but I come here and get depressed and not really inspired by the beautiful projects on this site. But I seem to be drawn to these particular cars because I try to live and breath octane as much as I can with zero budget.

I guess what I am saying is; How do you do it? Do you not have any debt or do you have to remortgage the house to get things done?

I must apologize for this rant... I just feel like it may come to the point where I should just walk away and never think about it again...

I will get off my soap box now and leave you all alone... I just needed to get this out there and possibly get peoples thoughts of how crazy or stupid I am for even thinking this way...

[69_Sportsroof]

I'm 26 and just starting my build, but I bought a fox project when I was 18. Some people just come from money from their parents, plenty of my peers had much nicer cars. There's always someone with more cash than you. I have student loans, mortgage, and a car payment but my wife and I both work and budget all of our money. What ever you do don't float a credit card balance, the interest is insane and you are throwing money away. We also rarely eat out, keep an eye on food sales, and are generally frugal. I pack a lunch every day instead of eating out, depending where you eat daily lunch can add up to a couple hundred a month. I never go to Starbucks or any other overpriced money traps so I can spend money on what I enjoy.

The way I was able to afford the last project was just incrementally buying things. I couldn't afford buying everything at once but spread over several years I got it pretty nice. Most people I know don't realize how much little things add up. Go through your bank statements for a couple months and you'll probably be surprised how much money you could have.

I have a much better job now than I have ever had but I'm still working with a pretty tight budget when it comes to custom cars. So I'm in for the long haul

[Rod]

Do not get me wrong; I may not be considered as one of the Young people (Age 33) that people seem to want to get involved with the pro-touring community. I read Pro-Touring articles that state time and time again that they are concerned about getting a younger audience into the sport. But a big BUT, I myself have dreamed to be involved in this community for over 18 years now and still could not even dream about being involved with this sport. I love this sport to no end and want to see it prevail! but Pro-Touring cars are not Hondas that have parts by the dozens ready for you to just bolt on. I mean most of the younger crowd on this site seem to be associated through a family member or have a job inside the industry. As for me, coming from the outside I can only window shop so to speak when it comes to a project worthy of this site.

When it comes to cost of being involved, I have not seen many vehicles on this site that is competing in the autocross events costing much less than say $20,000 US. I know that I sound like a crazed lunatic for talking like this, but I come here and get depressed and not really inspired by the beautiful projects on this site. But I seem to be drawn to these particular cars because I try to live and breath octane as much as I can with zero budget.

I guess what I am saying is; How do you do it? Do you not have any debt or do you have to remortgage the house to get things done?

I must apologize for this rant... I just feel like it may come to the point where I should just walk away and never think about it again...

I will get off my soap box now and leave you all alone... I just needed to get this out there and possibly get peoples thoughts of how crazy or stupid I am for even thinking this way...

how is it done?

how bad do you want it???

I did it myself....if I didn't know how to do it I asked or found a place or someone that can teach me, welding course at a community college, at 17 I was sweeping floors and working in the yard sorting hoops at Boyds shop just so I could watch how guys built those cars..volunteered 3 hours a night for a month at a body shop to learn how to paint and do body work, while I still had a 50 plus hour a week job, I mopped the floors at an engine shop so the Hall of fame engine builder Bruno Gianoli would teach me how to build an engine correctly, even just 3 years ago I was learning how to do Tin work at one of the best shops in Northern California...I have meet and worked with some of the best in the industry this way........most days I pack a lunch, my new car is a 1985, I bought used parts on craigslist to get going, you make due with what you can afford and have fun building then racing the rest will come....there is nothing cooler than having David Pozzi showing you how to TiG weld a header back together, Dick Guldstrand sitting there explaining to me roll center movements on a camaro step by step or Bret Vokel handing you a pair of shocks saying try these or Kyle Tucker buying you breakfast before an event....some of the best cars on this forum are majority built by the owners such as Marks Hellfire or Marys "best car in the world" none of those cars are a one shot deal, Marys car like my own is a version many times updated from its starting point

[parsonsj]

I couldn't afford it when I was 33 either. I window-shopped, as you say. I read car magazines to keep my interest.

Finally, when I was 40, I got started on a 9 year project. Careful shopping, doing as much work myself as possible, etc. Hell, even today (I'm 55), I can't afford to travel around the country to a bunch of car events. I can only manage 4-5 a year.

It was worth it, though!

[Bob in St. Louis]

Sounds like you're a car guy and have been most of your life.
It's in your blood. Don't fight it. Find a way.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

To compete regularly to the level a lot of these guys are at, it's not an entry level sport. It does take money to get involved, it is racing after all, and not a cheap form of racing at that. However autocross is a lot cheaper than a true road race style car. And honestly, you don't have to have a perfect track car to have fun in the auto-x, I've seen someone in a 60's Imperial have a blast, while the body rolled enough to blow a tire by rubbing on a pinchweld.

I'm 29, and just now finally building my first real capable track car. I've always built cars, I have several under my belt. I grew up in my dad's friend's bodyshop and learned whatever I could. I took a course at a technical school during high school, and painted my first car at age 16. Honestly the reason I'm able to do these cars is I'll build one, enjoy it for a bit, and flip it (being a Senior Engineer definitely helps too). My last one, the 66 Mustang in my sig, allowed me to purchase my dream car 71 Firebird, full Ridetech suspension, and a few other goodies. But prior to this, I just built cars to show and cruise. That's the more affordable part of the hobby. I did drag racing for awhile too, that's a good way to have fun for cheap.

I don't know if I actually said anything in my rambling above, but basically, don't shoot to compete with Stielow, the Tucker's, or the Pozzi's. Just start with a beater Fox body, or something a little less glamorous. Just get some track time in and learn if it's your thing first before you plan a $20k build. I kind of wish I had done so instead of being so picky about having "the right car".

[69_Sportsroof]

Oh yeah, forgot about autocross. Usually less than $40-50 a day and any car is fun. I've done a couple and they are a blast, if you want to hoon on a budget it doesn't get much easier. Typical speeds are around highway speed and you learn how the car reacts to input. Last one I did was in a very uneven parking lot and the bumps upset the chassis enough to warrant special attention. Good learning event

[Aficionado]

Dave Ramsey.

Eliminate all debt, period, and establish a sustainable lifestyle where you can stay out of debt and save for what you want. I drove a $1,300 retired police car for years while I saved for my dream car, which I paid for in cash, and have built with cash.

Second, get another job. And then another. Until recently I worked three, and have for years. Try to get one in the automotive or machine shop field, even if that means working for free in exchange for the education, which is a time honored way to develop a marketable skillset. The people you read about who are building these cars and are in the industry are often working in the field to accommodate a passion such as yours that they otherwise would never be able to afford. That's how many of us do it, and no reason you can't as well.

Get a plan and stay focused on the endgame. Oh, and get rid of Internet and TV at your house. It'll save money for your future car, and you'll be surprised how many hours of free time you'll have to work those three jobs.

[arcane73]

When I was 20 years younger I did the young and dumb approach of building cars on credit only to realize that I couldn't afford it later. Then I realized that in order to get what I wanted I had to make sure that everything else was taken care of first as far as finances went. So i went several years without a project and spent hours and hours planning out my 'ideal' ride. Fast forward to today: My wife and I are in a comfortable home, our drivers are paid for and well maintained, we go out to eat on Saturdays for lunch and we treat ourselves to little stuff every now and again (me: PC parts or tools, and her: Shoes!)

My mustang? It's paid for and sitting in the garage. It helps that I can drive it around in stock form. It's not fast....or pretty, but it's mine and I'm patient. I save $50 a week for parts. That keeps me from going overboard. It's not fast, but I'd rather do this right the first time. I've saved up chunks of cash (with help from tax season) and made big purchases and then set those items on the shelf in the garage. I do a lot of Craigslist browsing for deals. That's where I came across the rear end I just bought. To me, it's all about patience. I have to remind myself of that regularly. And my wife is on board with the whole thing which makes it that much better! lol

[SSLance]

All very good advice above. I also tried for years to "hot rod" my daily drivers and was never really successful at it. It's too hard to modify your daily driver and keep it on the road to take you to your job every day. Once I got to a position where my reliable daily driver was paid for...only then did I plan ahead and buy my fun car. I then planned out the changes to make to my car, a little bit at a time. It's been an evolving process ever since. Fix one thing, that showcases the next item that needs attention and so on. Don't try to do it all at once...and remember in order to be a good autocrosser, one needs to autocross regularly and work on the driver almost as much as the car.

[06RangerSTX]

I myself have done some stupid things when I was in my early age... I have actually had several chances to have a pretty good project car; starting with my uncle gave me a 1976 Chevy vega, 4-cylinder but that could have easily gone to the side but the body was in good condition but never did anything with it as it sat in a field rotting away and ended up at the junkyard. I also was given a 1982 V6 Camaro that could have been a fun car but gave it away due to selfishness. The best car that I used to actually own was a 1984 Monte Carlo SS, traded it for a Buick Regal due to my mother decided that I needed a more reliable car... I actually started a project about 12 years ago that was installing a 2.3L turbo into a 2nd generation Ford Ranger. I bought a Ranger and started taking it apart while the motor was being rebuilt. So $2k later the motor was done but not assembled and I never did finish the assembly either. so bare block that has been siting in a very damp location for about 6 years now...
In all of my idiocy I bought a 2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5Rs that I loved! the only problem is that I also owned a 2000 S-10 that both were financed while I was only making $11.50 and hour. So needless to say I ended up racking up all kinds of debt in the process to just make things work out. This was about 12 years ago and I am still paying for all of the debt that I accrued today. It also does not help that I have been laid off 4 times since 2007.

I have to state that I am married with a 2.5 year old daughter that loves cars! I am the sole provider for my family, but I have finally found a great job that also pays well at that!

I must say that I am very impressed on the quality of cars on this site! and to boot there seems to be a no real limit to what you actually build. I guess in the end is that I know many people that are somewhat same boat as I am. There just seems that there is little to no chance of ever really being able to build something that would be considered Pro-Touring.

[korb]

I think you need to figure out a direction, I see it as you do, I classified, Pro Tour, my definition is word Pro, these guys have gotten to the point were the have been in it long enough, seen track days,&may have done driving schools, and may have sponcers backing them, and would be able to hit as many events as possible, in short our mentors. Then theres the next, weekend warriors, they have robbed, pillaged, gave up allot to have a car, that has abilities to autocross, &be driven when able. Im one of these guys, 69 Firebird, just starting in SCCA, Cam T, thats Classic American Muscle, Traditional. this allows me to stay within my budget, because rules for the class.I feel for you, do more research, there are cars that are extremely competitive, stock, 3rd gen camaros, fox bodys, my sons 05mustang with a 6 cyl, stock has done really well at autocross, we pd 2 grand for it and it has 175 thousand miles on it.keep at it bud,& good luck!!!!

[TheJDMan]

Basically what everyone is saying is that if you want something bad enough you will do what is necessary to acheve it. This is not a pro-touring specific situation, it applies to everything you do in life. The guys above have figured out what they wanted then figured out what they needed to do and have worked hard to get where they are over time and I have a great deal of respect for them. To be honest it sounds like you have had several opportunities and simply not followed through. At 33 you should be old enough to know this by now. We all know how much the car hobby costs which is why you need to set a goal for yourself then develop a plan to achieve that goal. It will not happen overnight or next month but over time, if you stick to your plan, the goal will eventually be realized.

[srh3trinity]

I think there are ways to have fun on a budget. I see the fourth gen ls1 cars going for cheap now. You could pick up a ragged out one for 5k, peruse the classifieds on ls1tech for motor and suspension bolt ons and drive it until something gives up. Then beef that up and repeat. For 10k, you could probably have more car than a first or second gen with aftermarket suspension and a high hp lsx that cost 100k. That gets you off the bench and into the game. I am 35 and I am going through a longer term medium priced build and you get a whole different subset of frustration with a build like this. Timeframe, paint and body jail and waiting on wheels or parts, this part doesn't "bolt up" like it should, etc. I ask myself regularly why I didn't just buy a used c5 or c6 or a fifth gen camaro and get to driving.

[T_Raven]

There are a lot of high dollar builds but that doesn't have to be the case. If someone wants to start with a restored 69 Camaro and modify it, then yeah, it's gonna be an expensive project.

I've had quite a few project cars that were free or close to it, to get the car itself at least. A lot of parts can be had fairly cheap, and your own labor is free.

I also have a Civic. Keeping a D15 is like having a carbureted small block. Both can be cheap but aren't the best set up or the popular swap. Say you want that Vtec B18 swap. You're gonna spend the same amount a muscle car guy would for a 6.0/4L80e pull out. A K series swap would be more comparable to a LS1/t56

There are a lot of cheap parts out there for both a Civic or muscle car, but you get what you pay for. Getting good suspension and brake parts for either car, costs similar money.

I'm building a 69 Firebird with a 6.0/t56. I have $3200 into the body and powertrain, 4th gen seats, dash, and brakes left from a parts car. By the time I paint it, buy wheels and tires, and the rest of the interior, I think I can have it drivable for around $10k and upgrade suspension as I go along.

Compare that to my awd, K series hatchback Civic project and you'd easily have $10k into that swap if you just went out and bought a nice Civic and paid regular wrecking yard prices for the power train, and regular prices for all the swap parts. And that would still be with cheap wheels and stock suspension and brakes.

Long story short, pro-touring muscle cars are more expensive than a clapped out Civic full of ebay parts, but you can still find deals on cars, and wheel and deal to get cheap parts.

[Dunnum1]

I'm 33 also I started tinkering in my off time with desert trucks borrowed tools and saved from work while in college. when I started my career I learned to budget and slowly started building mt first restomod out of a t code mustang then saved to buy my next car and the next after that. I didn't go out with my buddies. my wife and I found an affordable place that left cash to put towards what we wanted to keep instead of blowing it on crap. When I fell in love with the smell of race gas I didn't get depressed that I couldn't afford it I found a way to play I worked hard and feel like if you want to have the nicest/fastest/coolest car you have to work for it. Some people on here may hate me for saying that I don't want to see everyone driving a fully built pro touring car. I like knowing that the guys that have something special worked as hard as I did. I know I don't have the skills to do MOST of the work on these cars so I found a way to afford to have an expert do those things. Don't get me wrong I hope you find a way to get what you want and build a car that inspires me but it is an expensive life and I'm sure 99% of the guys who's cars make you depressed worked their asses off to be able to afford them. They made sacrifices and hard decisions and found a way to either learn how to build it or have some one do it their way.

[71maroesteban]

I feel like pro touring will never be a younger persons game. Because if you don't own something pre 75 it's not "pro touring" I'm building a 71 Camaro and parts are so expensive that I bought c6 vette so I can get to driving instead of just waiting for my car to be done and honestly I don't think any pro touring car can match the level of performance the C6 I bought has for 20k

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I see you mentioned that you're married with a young child, and a sole provider. That's unfortunately one of tradeoffs in life, at this point the family should be the number one priority, and not so much the race car. I guess that's why most people don't get around to building these cars until they're in their 40's or 50's, they have to raise a family first. It's definitely a tough balancing act, and if anything, picking up a cheap 4th Camaro or C4 Corvette might be the best way to have some fun without breaking the bank. Spending $20k on an old car would be difficult, nor advisable IMO.

Myself, being a 29 yr old senior level Engineer, and single with no family, translates into... race car! But life is about balance. If something happened (hell froze over) and I found myself raising a new family, I'd probably cut down my projects to an even half dozen, or something reasonably sane.

[Nicks67GTO]

I'm 32. I'm married, 2 kids. Earned every dime iv'e ever made. Here's my view on it.

1- have a cool easy going wife. If this isn't the case then forget it. If your wife is a battle axe about money then just forget about it, you'll be much happier.

2- listen to Dave Ramsey like was mentioned above. I'm not going to go into my personal details but I will just say that under no circumstances will I go into debt over my project. Never. It would be sitting before that happened. Iv'e heard of guys cashing 401K's, living credit card to credit card to get it done and to me that is absolutely foolish. The key to being able to play is to have a good job, live smaller than socioty tells you you should, eliminate your debt load, save big and be patient.

3- find something you like that is AFORDABLE on your income. I was fortunate enough to have a poorly painted 67 GTO shell laying around that I cut a deal for. Had I not had that I would have looked for a lesser desirable A body musclecar to start with. You don't have to have an SS chevelle, GTO, 442, W31, GSX or something like that. You could buy a 64 Buick special like my buddy just did. He bought it running and driving for $6K and just enjoys it as is, for the time being, while he saves for upgrade projects. Is it a super desirable body? Nope, but its got that 64-67 A body look, its really unique and VERY cool. Look for a nice running Tempest, Lemans, Cutlass, Skylark, F85 etc. With that said.....

4- Buy used parts to get your project running and usable asap. Dont blow your whole wad on one really expensive thing. I'm running an $800 dollar Pontiac 455 I found a deal on craigslist 6 hours away from me, a 20 year old Richmond 5 speed I had from another project, stock driveshaft, used seats, headers, flywheel, scattershield, clutch, rear discs, truetrac unit, rear gears and so on and so forth. All used. All found on ebay, Performance years, Craigslist, or here. I'm upgrading as I go and my project has been going since 09'-10' I don't have $6K to drop on 6P Baer brakes so I got Kore3 fronts and LS1 rears that are probably in all reality just as good for my use but less bling factor. I don't have $5K for forged wheels so I got nice cast wheels. My old 1:1 Richmond 5 speed tranny works fine and one could be had for $1000 if you could find one used, as opposed to a latest and greatest LGT700 that is close to $4K. I'm running a rebuilt Quadrajet that iv'e got all of $100 bucks in, as opposed to the latest/greatest EFI setup. I'm running a used RobbMc fuel system I got on Performance years.

My point is you don't have to have a $150K car thought it would be easy to end up there if you went bananas and had to have the best of the best. You could have a $6K car that runs and drives that you get to plan projects on and upgrade over time. With all that said, IMO If its stressing your family, then forget it and just enjoy going to shows and whatnot until you are ready to get at it responsibly.

[NJSPEEDER]

In reality, most people that build cars themselves had them for years before they were the beasts you see featured in magazines, on TV shows, and getting the glory on websites. The costs are a very real restriction for most of us and it boils down to the same simple concepts that should apply to any hobby, only spend what you can afford when you have it.

For 99% of us this means the car we want all set up perfectly the way we want it isn't going to happen overnite and really that doesn't matter. The idea is to get out there and enjoy yourself. Meet the people, check out the cars, try to snag some ride alongs, if your car is up and running get out and enjoy it whether there is an event going on or not. Fun is the point, having a $100k+ car doesn't make it happen and having a $500 one paycheck hero doesn't prevent it, its about great people and fun cars. Go enjoy.

[Barrrf]

Start with a $13k car. Do everything yourself. Dont expect to have it all done at once (which after a few years feels like youre NEVER going to have it done and becomes discouraging).

Forgo the Shockwaves for Global West. Pass up on coil overs and do nice springs and smooth body shocks. Dont purchase a completely custom interior and instead fashion your own panels out of fleece and resin. Browse the classifieds for good left overs. Hit up swap meets (those still exist and deals can still be had there).

[Project92rs]

First off don't get discouraged. Prioritize the things in your life and determine how to do the things you have to do and that will give you an idea about how much time and money you have left for the things you want to do. My wife and I didn't start building our cars until I was in my 40's.

There are plenty of cars out there that you can have a lot of fun with that won't break the bank. 3rd gen Camaro's and Firebirds can still be found in reasonable condition for less than $4000 all over the country and make a pretty good platform for autocross cars. Fox body Mustangs fall into a similar category. It might be years before the car is magazine worthy or exactly what you want it to be but you'll be able to go out and have fun with it while improving on it slowly over the years.

[Zachalanche]

Don't get discouraged. This is the internet where everyone is a mechanic with a 7 figure income. How many of your close friends or family have finished pro-touring cars similar to what you may have seen on this site. My guess would be zero. At first it seems like you need an astronomical amount of money to participate in this hobby, but what few understand is that you have to have the vision and stubbornness to see a project through to the end that may take longer than a decade. In time you will be able to afford the parts, but can you stay motivated when your project car is just a bare body on jack stands, but you are working on your daily driver instead just so you can drive it to work the next day?

Check the time stamps on some of the build threads on this site. You'll be surprised how long most of these threads have been going. if they are anything like mine, there was at least a few years worth of work that occurred prior to the first post.

Good luck, plan wisely and don't get in over your head, or someone else will be finishing your project and enjoying all your hard work. I've heard that it's frequently the third person that finally dives the project car that the previous 2 could not finish. Also heard that over half of all aftermarket parts purchased new, are not used by the original purchaser. So with the odds against you, go forth and conquer because you can have anything you want, just not everything you want.

[andrewb70]

I have another bit of opinion (I hesitate calling anything I say "advice"). Don't be seduced by all of the popular makes and models. There are many alternative body style that can be purchased relatively inexpensively and oftentimes they share the same driveline components as the more popular cars. For instance, instead of a 67 Mustang, look at a 67 Cougar, etc...

Also, buy the best survivor car you can afford. I would much rather start with faded original paint than a Rustoleum restoration. Get a car that has little or no rust. These cars are out there and if you choose a less popular platform it will not cost you a fortune. For instance, a clean running, driving Cougar can be had for under $5K.

Andrew

[06RangerSTX]

There are some very good ideas on in this thread! I am thinking if I ever get a chance to build something; Some good projects are:

1971 Chevy Vega- love the split bumper mod and looks good as the GT!
1970-1972 Ford Maverick- maybe do a Grabber clone
1970-1972 Monte Carlo- Found one for $900 that has most panels already replaced
1991 Fox Body Mustang- Rather fond of the coupe other than the notchback
1972-1975 Chevy LUV truck- easy enough to fit a V8!
1969-1970 Opel GT- Cheap to find in good condition... Would love to do the Aluminum Buick 215ci V8 swap over the cast 1.9L
Could even finish my 2.3L Turbo Ford Ranger!
Hell even a Chevy S-10 could be fun!

I guess what it will take is the patience to keep the dream alive... I have spent so long feeling as though I could not and would never be able to dream again... especially after being laid off so many times and accruing so much debt.

[NJSPEEDER]

By making that list you just pointed out one of the great frustrations of any gearhead, regardless of budget. There will always be more cool cars and ideas than there will ever be time or money. lol

[groho]

I'm nearing retirement and just now building my project. After many years of drivers, Camaros, sports trucks, and other street cars, none of which were capable of being in this group, and toss in a family, things get delayed. Boys are now in college and I can focus on my dream. I'm currently on year 4, or is it year 5 on my 66 coupe. It'll have everything I want, stiff chassis, built suspension, custom interior, perf brakes, etc. So...from an old guy a few simple rules. Be realistic with yourself. I went into this knowing I would never have a high end ($75K) build, or $5K Forgelines, nor a new LS3 or Coyote motor with a 6 spd. What I do have is a car that I built, with my two hands, that I can have fun, race, and enjoy. As mentioned, your proj and your daily driver should be two separate cars, you'll thank yourself later. Doing the work yourself if possible will save you an incredible amount of money. So what if it takes 3, 4, 5 years to build. Family is first. True gear heads are more than willing to share what they know. Do you have the personal drive to learn it?

[T_Raven]

By making that list you just pointed out one of the great frustrations of any gearhead, regardless of budget. There will always be more cool cars and ideas than there will ever be time or money. lol

The 16 cars at my house would agree with you lol

[RobNoLimit]

One thing to remember. Many of the items needed cost the same no matter what kind of car. The price difference comes in two areas. 1) the initial car purchase 2) the level of every decision after that. A "Street Machine of the Year" contender car will cost $300K+ no matter what you start with (69 Yenko Z-28 or a 74 vega). Want to go fast on the cheap? Buy a 2000 'vette for $16K and put tires on it. Want to build it for under $20k? pick and choose carefully. We helped the guys at Black Widow Mufflers build their S-10 Drift/crosser and they have less than 20 in it. - and a lot of work. It's simple, it works, and it's a blast to drive. Shop on RaceJunk, Race Desert, and craigslist. You can do it if you want to.

[BMR Sales]

Basically what everyone is saying is that if you want something bad enough you will do what is necessary to acheve it. This is not a pro-touring specific situation, it applies to everything you do in life. The guys above have figured out what they wanted then figured out what they needed to do and have worked hard to get where they are over time and I have a great deal of respect for them.

You & I think the same thoughts.

To the OP, when it comes to cars & racing, there will Always be somebody with more money (they inherited it, they earned it, whatever) so don't get wrapped up around keeping up with the Jones.

When I 1st got into Racing, I was determined to get to IndyCars. Even with a limited budget I almost made it and even though it cost me a fortune and a few good women, I wouldn't change a thing.

[NJSPEEDER]

The 16 cars at my house would agree with you lol


I can help ya with that. I'll happily take the 69 and 72 Firebirds listed in your sig off your hands just to help you out. I won't even be so rude as to burden you with having to take any money.

So what's the address i should pick those up from? lol

It is the endless story. Whether I have multiple projects going on, just one, or none at all, it always seems like I can find a million cars I want to build and a million more i see in person that i can think of a million various ways to make cooler. It's all part of the addiction.

[rustomatic]

Go to events--in your area, there's a Goodguys autocross (and SCCA events, which you can watch for free), where you'll undoubtedly see everything from mom's Honda Accord to somebody's six-figure Camaro being beaten on like a step-child. People love to talk; they want to educate you. Read threads by guys who make their own stuff; the most inspiring cars (to me) are the ones that are not bolt-on specials. When you've got a canvas, look for idiots like me who are selling expensive, high-quality parts cheaply to get to the next phase (however stupid it might be).

Buy cheap tools, and upgrade when you break them. Some "junk" can last a really long time...

On a final note, look at what the teams in Lemons/Chump Car do on their "cheap" race cars. They show you that a bit of engineering (and endless pondering) goes a lot further than a high-dollar part in making a car work in a performance (or commuting) scenario. To tie this to something above, I sold a bunch of really nice Mustang parts recently to a guy who worked on a rear-engined VW team (at a low price, of course)...

[06RangerSTX]

So many fantastic ideas! I know quite a bit of information on cars like statistics but where I fall short is technical knowledge... I have taken apart many cars but have not a good track record on getting things back together. I am a person who likes a project, but I also love to drive! so taking decades to build a car is not something I feel like I would enjoy. I had my last project for almost 3 years only to have my wife ask me when I was going to get rid of the piece of junk car. So I may have to start with something a little newer like a camaro/firebird or fox body mustang. I do kick myself because I could have bought a 1994 Pontiac firebird V-6 for $250 dollars... it even ran but I could have down the road drop in a LT1 or even LS1. Unfortunately at the time I did not have access to a garage to store or work on the car. I did find a 1979 Chevy Camaro Z-28 for $1200 that looked almost complete and in good condition.
I have always been a person who loves hotrods as I wanted my first car to be a 1948 Dodge truck, but I ended up with a 1981 Canary Yellow Chevy LUV truck with the 1.8L 4-speed.
I live in Columbus Ohio so the Goodguys Nationals are always something that I love to do. I have never had the finances to even attend the event until about 2 years ago. I love browsing through the vendors area to see what hot new parts and cars there are. It is actually one of my dreams to be able to attend and participate at the Goodguys Nationals someday. The only issue is that they are still under the older format of 1972 and older cars. Which of course does not help any budget that I could have to build a car. I may try to make it out to Indy Goodguys some year since they are allowing newer cars compete in the event.
I hear you on the Corvette idea! I at one point thought about buying an 02 or 03 model Z06 as they are factory track setup, but all of a sudden the prices have gone through the roof for the C5 vettes... I used to be able to find the early years for almost $10k but now they have doubled in price.


I find projects like this that could be a decent start of a project especially for this price!
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/5083733877.html

Or something like this?
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/5046175534.html

[T_Raven]

I can help ya with that. I'll happily take the 69 and 72 Firebirds listed in your sig off your hands just to help you out. I won't even be so rude as to burden you with having to take any money.

So what's the address i should pick those up from? lol

It is the endless story. Whether I have multiple projects going on, just one, or none at all, it always seems like I can find a million cars I want to build and a million more i see in person that i can think of a million various ways to make cooler. It's all part of the addiction.

I totally understand. I wish I could be satisfied with pictures or models of certain cars. I know how I would build so many and just want to build them all.

That's why I'm always dragging new stuff home. I'm been gone since Feb, but in the 2 years before that I averaged a car a month.

It's an addiction and I've gotta get my fix by bringing something else home lol. A lot of times I've been excited to build a car and when I get one I lose interest. The thrill is more in the hunt I guess. I manage to make money on most cars I sell though, so it works out.

[ICrombie]

I'm 21 and I have been the sole person funding the build of my camaro. I guess I was lucky because in HS I worked in construction each summer and socked all that money away, then in college I got involved in a well paying co op program for engineering (and with scholarships school has basically been covered).
I do all the work myself with a lot of help from my uncle who is a mechanic and my father who was a body man, but if you can do all the installation and body work yourself you save yourself a lot of money.

Also a lot of guys here buy stuff new, but you can scavenge a lot of stuff from junkyards, swap meets & craigslist to keep costs down on the big items.

[BMR Sales]

I am a person who likes a project, but I also love to drive!

There in lies the Rub! Projects take time, sometimes alot of time (just for Paint Prison threads) and in that time you will not be driving.

The Best Project is getting someone else's stalled project. Pennies on the Dollar and some of the work is done!

I love to drive but have picked up many projects over the years. A lot of the Projects I regret doing as it took me away from racing

[RLJ676]

I'm just glad you're considering 33 young! (34 here, feels old occasionally...)

I started with a restored car, great paint and decent everything else as I wanted nothing to do with body and paint, figuring suspension and wheels would be it. In the few months since then I've added a TKO, seats, CF hood, brakes and now a complete lsa supercharged L92 longblock to the pile of parts haha. However, I'm single and have a pretty decent job so while it's killed my checking account it hasn't quite taken too much to sacrifice. In the end I feel I'll have too much money in the car compared to what I see some sell for on here with similar stuff! But my plan is to daily drive it as much as I can rather than race, so in terms of that it's hardly going to depreciate compared to a new vette;)

My advice, of course make as much as you can, but if you are single it's easy to sacrifice vacations, fancy food, etc. If you have mouths to feed not so easy!

[OG_Racing]

hate to be johnny few words but... nothing is wrong with racing a fox body or a 4th gen camaro.

heck i run PT events in a miata. it's LS swapped and that gets me in, but nothing wrong with the small money performers.

[andrewb70]

This is the kind of car you want to start a build with:

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/5090553234.html

What a cream puff! Leave the paint alone, save money for suspension and brakes, and drive the wheels off it! I bet you get that car for $12K...and have a really cool car for under $20K

Andrew

[Nicks67GTO]

This is the kind of car you want to start a build with:

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/5090553234.html

What a cream puff! Leave the paint alone, save money for suspension and brakes, and drive the wheels off it! I bet you get that car for $12K...and have a really cool car for under $20K

Andrew

That would make a killer starting point. Enjoy as is for a while and make improvents as you wish. I've started to develop a thing for Cougars. A buddy just restored a 67, stuck a later 69 hood scoop on it. It looks killer. They share the Mustang suspension too don't they?

[andrewb70]

That would make a killer starting point. Enjoy as is for a while and make improvents as you wish. I've started to develop a thing for Cougars. A buddy just restored a 67, stuck a later 69 hood scoop on it. It looks killer. They share the Mustang suspension too don't they?

The front is the same design as the Mustang, but the rear is a little different because the Cougars have a longer wheelbase. So the rear leaf springs are different, thus some of the bolt on rear suspension parts need slight modifications to work in a cougar, but there is good aftermarket support.

Andrew

[CamaroMike]

I am a few years younger than you and in the same boat. I know what I want (to go out and have fun on the road course) and currently doing DE's in an E46 BMW until one of the Camaros is ready for track duty. The price and reliability of the E46 is great and I can really get out there and have a blast without breaking the bank! Yes it would be a lot cooler if it was the 69 Camaro on the track but I am working on my "driver mod" and becoming an instructor in hopefully the next 3 years.

When the money is right I will do wheels/brakes/suspension on the 69. I'm still young so I am not trying to rush it.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

That Cougar is pretty cool, and something I'd do, but it's still a high entry price, and building an early Mustang to handle isn't cheap.

Myself, I have to say I'm partial to the 4th gen F-bodies. I loved my 98 Trans Am, it was a decent handling car stock, and just a fun car with a 6 speed. Unfortunately for me as a former owner, the prices have hit what I imagine to be rock bottom, it's not hard to find an LS1 car for $4k, spend another few thousand and you can get a pretty decent example, and a cheap entry point into a fun car. Spend a bit on suspension upgrades, and you have a decently competitive car. I wish I were able to run mine, but at 210k miles on the engine, I didn't want to risk having to rebuild it after pushing it to the limits. Though she still ran outstanding when I sold her, I just didn't want to become much more buried in it than I already way. Besides, that money went to buying my 71 Firebird. :)

[06RangerSTX]

This may be a stupid thought but would it be possible to build a pro-touring car for like maybe $5,000 or less? If I were to build a car, it would be used for a wide variety of things like track days, drag racing and even autocross... maybe something like the Camaro/Malibu/Monte Carlo would be THE car to build then... I can find running/driving examples of late 70s early 80s Camaros for about $2500 or even less... Could I drive at a track day with a carbureted 350 small block and not have too much fuel cutout when pulling Gs? Many companies seem to have full bolt on kits for instance the G-body GM car. I think tires and wheels are the real cost investment into building a car, but I may be able to find the work around to even that.

[BMR Sales]

This may be a stupid thought but would it be possible to build a pro-touring car for like maybe $5,000 or less? If I were to build a car, it would be used for a wide variety of things like track days, drag racing and even autocross... maybe something like the Camaro/Malibu/Monte Carlo would be THE car to build then... I can find running/driving examples of late 70s early 80s Camaros for about $2500 or even less... Could I drive at a track day with a carbureted 350 small block and not have too much fuel cutout when pulling Gs? Many companies seem to have full bolt on kits for instance the G-body GM car. I think tires and wheels are the real cost investment into building a car, but I may be able to find the work around to even that.

No I don't think you build anything that is Track-Safe for $5,000 unless you were given a project that was pretty far along. Brakes, Wheels & Tires will eat up half your budget. Still need Suspension & Safety Mods. And....

How do you make a Small Fortune in Racing








Start with a Large Fortune!

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Yeah, $5k won't get you anywhere on building a P-T car out of something that was never designed to handle. That's where something like a 4th gen F-body, or maybe even C4 Corvette would be good. Decent handlers out of the box, at this point they'll just need some worn parts gradually replaced and upgraded. To build up an older car you'd need to allot at least $3k to get some good suspension going, which doesn't leave you a lot for buying a car.

[Aficionado]

In the $5,000 range, the C4 Corvette is very appealing, since it was designed to handle and as another poster pointed out, you're not fighting an uphill battle with a car that was never designed to go around curves.

It all depends on what your ultimate goals are. If you want it to be your forever car, starting with a much cheaper car may limit how far you want to take it later--a lot of people, for example, would choke at spending the money required to beef up the rear end of a C4 when that alone could cost more than you spent for the whole car. It's a lot easier to justify a $4,000 trans or an $8,000 motor with a car for which you paid $20,000. On the other hand, if you want something fun to drive while you're learning the skillsets, there's nothing wrong with starting with a less expensive car, in which case, yeah, I'd like the C4 for that.

My personal inclination was to pick what I wanted and then make whatever sacrifice it took to get it and build it, even though it involved a lot of time and work to get there. Other approaches, though, are equally valid.

[MonzaRacer]

I beg to differ. My Monza will be built on a LOT less than $5000.
USED 283 short block $200
Double humps rebuilt $400 in parts.
Engine parts $250
Used efi parts $250
Free efi intake
77 Monza $100
Th350 TCI w/ converter $50
Used Corvette wheels $300
Tires used $200
Tires new $350
Ridetech coilovers $700
Rear shock $350
ZR2 rear end free
Figure another $500 for incedental pieces.
$3300 +/-
And this all over time.
My future plans will add in twin eBay turbos, figure eat $250 each, 2/$50 blow off valves, tubing kit from eBay, intercooler $200. Turbo headers $200, 2/$25 adapters. Still deal in on th700r4.
Body work on my own, figure $200 in materials.
I can paint a car with implement paint for less than $200 or spring for some plastidip might make it $500.
Deals can be had, found 4 fox bodies for less than $500 decent shape.
Those are easy to make turn and burn. You don't need big money just use your brains.
I have heard of couple of guys autocrossing cars like my 98 regal, montes, impalas, etc.
Heck saw one guy with an old z24 Cavalier. Low pro tires and 4 way harness.
Guy was awesome against big power cars, had ebrake turns mastered to a T.
Heck he took something like third against some big money/shop built cars.
I'm gonna bet an old fbody ,2nd gen, eibach springs, reasonable shocks, some used low pro tires even in say 16s could suffice as a set of larger wheels and better tires are procured.
I will bet no one would think a car built out of used,throw away parts, for $400 towed by a $500 truck, on a $300 trailer could
compete all year long in a sportsman class drag race series, finish in top 8 for run off at end of season.
I did it in 1990, ran 9.30's in 1/8th, then drove it through the winter.
So Ru king cheap if you plan accordingly is easy. Heck I didn't even have full time job when I started that project.
I have mentored and helped with tuning and teaching in bracket racing to years on budgets to other people.
One fellow picked up a 78 Z28, factory 3.73 posi, used to have 350, bought it with bad cammed 307.
We leaked down the long block, it was fairly solid. So we installed a Comp cam, cheap roller tip rockers, Autozone headers, with extensions. He swapped yard work for some old slapper bars, sanded down, painted yellow.
His neighbor had some old rally wheels with slicks, old and getting hard from sitting but serviceable, we would bag them with track bite.
He worked in tractor shop, found some old Allen bolts 1/2 x20 grade8 , so he had wheels studs for cheap.
He ran 307 with old cast intake and tweaked qjet two years, saved and scrounged for 350, got another 307 crank cheap, score $50 set of 0.030 forged pistons.
We ported heads, added Z springs 1.94/1.50 valves and 5 angle valve job. The came off 307. Sold short block to another racer.
He scored a race prepped AT with stall converter.
Lucky it matched cam well enough.
Ran that 327 for 4 years, several cam/ intake combos. Heck he ran qjet through 5 yrs till can got too big.
Owner scored ex super class 355 along with big tube headers, and trans.
Swapped in some USD 4.56gears and spool, and it ran low 6s uncut, pushed 5.90s on NOS.
Yeah he still has car, dragged it 15 yrs now son is building it back up as pro-touring car.
He is wanting to do LSx, jury's out heck he may just redo the old 327.
He scored some eibach springs, what he thinks are either Hotchkiss bars or Addco. He is figuring new bushings, tall ball jpints, maybe see if dad will spring for adjustable Ridetech shocks, and some eBay 17s or 18s.
Start with elcheapo low pro tires and see what happens.
Figure kid will have cheap corner burner for well shy of $5000 if he plays cards right, starts with aggressive pads on a stock brakes, saves for Corvette brakes later.

So make a plan, do your homework, gather your parts and have fun. Heck I know one guy ran good guys and sold his car for $5000 after, ran as is. He paid $1000 just few days before and dragged it out of a garage being torn down. Buyer also gave home diesel jetta, drove it two years for college, some vw guy gave him $3500 for it as he graduated. Dad gave him $5000 for grad gift
Went and paid $10000 for slightly modded first gen,bought some used Forgelines and tada he has awesome pro touring car in less than three years.
Short story, think, plan, execute. Does not take big money every time.

[Interceptor5588]

IMHO, best bang-for-buck handling car out of the box from GM is still the third-gen F-body (IROC-Z/Formula.) I keep one as my weekend/racecar while I'm building the GTO. I probly have about $10k in it and it keeps up with new Corvettes, BMW's etc at the track pretty well, whereas I have about $25k into the GTO and it's still on stands . . .

Anything built earlier is cooler but will take $5k to get it to handle as well as a stock IROC. Even the second-gen F-bodies prices are picking up for clean examples, and they're 500 lbs heavier.

As for building the car of your dreams, pick the car you REALLY want, hopefully running, and do it up over time. Don't rip the whole thing apart because it will stay that way for 3 or 20 years and unless you win the lottery you and your wife will come to hate it because it will hog all of your time, money and garage space. Pick something with as little rust as you can afford as it can cost $10,000 just to fix rust, money that could be spent on Pro-Touring stuff.

[Twentyover]

I seem to recall a $5000 Mustang. While he has since chosen to exceed that budget, @ 5K Ron had a damn credible effort

[1truckguy78]

I'm only 25, with still $32k in student loans plus countless medical bills and back to living at home. My project is on the way back burner for now. Yeah Dad bitches about it taking up the garage but at the end of the day that truck sitting there is what keeps my sanity from all the crap in my life. I dream about it everyday and remember driving it. One day I'll have money to work on it. You can't give up, remember your dreams and what you are working towards.

[killer69]

My FIRST car was a TRUCK a 1953 Ford that I bough from the farmer up the street for 300.00 when I was 13. didn't run had 20 coats of paint on it I had that torn apart in my Dad's garage. at the time I was working at the local Ford dealer washing cars after school I was making 2.50 an hour but hey I god a DEAL on Parts!!! and I owned a FORD.
and from there it just snowballed, my next car when I was 17 was a 1975 Olds OMEGA @ dr bucket seats 350, man that car did CRAZY one wheel burn outs!! oh I had to try painting it and swapped the motor. then I got a 67Mustang coupe, 289 4 spd black RED VELVET interior (remember this was 1988) then I got a SVO mustang it just kept progressing. I always worked on peoples cars on the side and made some extra money I worked at the parts store to get deals on parts. I never did anything but work on cars. opened a shop 11 years ago and here we are. still working on other peoples cars!!

[dhutton]

I couldn't afford it when I was 33 either. I window-shopped, as you say. I read car magazines to keep my interest.

Finally, when I was 40, I got started on a 9 year project. Careful shopping, doing as much work myself as possible, etc. Hell, even today (I'm 55), I can't afford to travel around the country to a bunch of car events. I can only manage 4-5 a year.

It was worth it, though!

I took a 20 year break from cars between 30 and 50 to take care of more important things such as building home equity and retirement savings etc. When I turned 50 I built a shop and jumped in with both feet doing as much as I could to limit costs. Sometimes you have to set priorities to insure that you are successful in all of life's pursuits.

Don

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Despite popular belief it really doesn't take a lot of $ to have fun in the pro touring world. Rather it takes a lot to have all the bells, whistles, billet and carbon fiber so you can try to keep up with the guys that have the fat wallets. I started autoXing by simply cutting the stock springs to lower the car 3" and put on some $300 ebay Trans Am 16x8 wheels and BFG 245-50-16s. I had just as much fun racing it that way as I do now, it's just a whole bunch faster than it used to be.

My car has roughly $8,000 into it as you see it, including the $300 for the car itself. Over half that is in the suspension, about 1/4 in the engine and the rest everywhere else. The paint job cost me about $80 in spray paint, the wheels are the cheapest I could find at the time, the tires are cheap(er) 300 TW NT555s. The engine is a basic rebuild on a torquey 400 sbc with factory 400 smog heads that I self ported and a relatively mild Comp XE268 cam, backed by a stock TH350 and converter. All Speedtech suspension parts, Viking coilovers, 2002 Camaro front brakes, a self made roll cage and frame bracing, and factory rear axle with 2.41(!) gears and drum brakes.

The car handles awesome on the autoX. At this point it's track performance is limited by tires so I'm saving for 18's and 200 TW 315s all the way around. The wheels I want are about $150 each, so wheels and tires will be close to another $2000 when the dust settles. On Drag Radials it also runs 13.90s in the 1/4 mile at sea level, going through the lights at 4500 rpms in second gear. All in all it's a blast to drive and proves it doesn't have to cost $100,000 to have fun!


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/07/dragracing514003_zps992dc280-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/07/02AutoXHotchkis011_zps4fb18fbe-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/07/02AutoXHotchkis002_zpscff65ea0-1.jpg

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

^There's a great example. The problem with people getting into pro-touring is the thought that they have to get into a 69 Camaro, 70 Chevelle, or other mainstream muscle car as their first build. There are plenty of later cheaper platforms that can be made to handle just as well (G-bodies, later 2nd gen F-bodies), or handle near as well stock (C4 Vette, 3/4 gen F-body).

[andrewb70]

^There's a great example. The problem with people getting into pro-touring is the thought that they have to get into a 69 Camaro, 70 Chevelle, or other mainstream muscle car as their first build. There are plenty of later cheaper platforms that can be made to handle just as well (G-bodies, later 2nd gen F-bodies), or handle near as well stock (C4 Vette, 3/4 gen F-body).

If you want to start ahead, you have to start with less popular platforms, but those that still have good aftermarket support. The GM G-bodies are an excellent example. GM made millions of those cars and cream puffs can still be found for not much money.

Andrew

[anthonys 69]

there's a show called eastwood hands on cars I watch it on youtube there building a 78 z28 on a budget. I bought a 79 Camaro for $1000.00 not a z. what I do for funds is I save as much money as I can and take advantage of black Friday sales at thanks giving. this gives me a time frame to save and goal to reach. venders like MCB are great people to deal with. last year I bought ridetech front suspension saved 10%, free shipping and got some free stuff to boot. after saving my hard earnd money I spend it on the best deals I can find. if there's no sale there's no rush to buy it from them at that time. my project is coming along nice but its ben about 5 years so far good luck

[06RangerSTX]

So it sounds to me that the common thread would be to to buy a newer generation F-body or go buy a less popular body style... G-body prices seemed to have spiked in recent years. I used to be able to find a 1980 El Camino or Malibu for rather cheap, but they seem worth their weight in gold now. I absolutely miss my 1984 Monte Carlo SS that I used to have in High School! I may still have the chance for the 1976 Chevy Vega that my uncle gave me over 15 years ago. It would be pretty rough, but I could get it for free. I have been researching parts for the car and came up with quite a list that would give me a really fun Pro-Touring esk ride! Come to find out the Vega is unibody but has the torque arm suspension! So a set of springs, decent sway bars, and some adjustable shocks; I would have a incredibly fun to drive car! I found a ton of fiberglass body parts as well, basically everything from fenders to full front ends. The car only weighed in around 3,000lbs. so it would be nothing to possibly get it to around 2700lbs. So I was thinking a small block 350ci chevy with a 5-speed manual should be a good running car!

[Peter Mc Mahon]

This site is pro touring not pro racing. It is easy to get caught up in the extreme end of things. I am constantly wowed by what I see on here, but I see these inspirations as my end goal. Today is about driving, tomorrow is about making my truck a little better.

[andrewb70]

This site is pro touring not pro racing. It is easy to get caught up in the extreme end of things. I am constantly wowed by what I see on here, but I see these inspirations as my end goal. Today is about driving, tomorrow is about making my truck a little better.

Amen to that. I probably have less than $15K in the Cougar and it gets more looks than my GTO, and is just as fun (although in different ways) to drive. Matter of fact, I think I'll go for a little drive right now...

Andrew

[TexasT]

As a guy who was young and was used to being the youngest at the gathering and Now having gone to being One of the old guys who brings his son who is as old as i was when I was the young guy, it doesnt get cheaper or easier as You go along. Marriage, children, day job, house repairs, goofing with uncooperative neighbors, youth sports, broken bones, other unforseen circumstances. You just have to make due with what You have and keep moving forward.

Keep what ever You choose operational. Nothing killz the buzz more than a busted non running Project. Even if You just take it out once a week or once a month for an ice cream run it keeps You interested.

Keep moving forward. The interwebz provides how to for just about every thing. If nothing else learn and do something new you've never done before. And keep moving forward. Nobody knew it all when they started.

[T_Raven]

I mentioned a couple of my projects in my last post but I'll share what I've done to keep others cheap.

Trucks can be built cheap

54 GMC

Making it awd with a turbo 5.3 with IRS.

$450 for the truck from a junk yard
$0 chassis and t case. Bought a 94 Bravada, parted it out and got my money back, free chassis and t case.
$180 3.08:1 T-bird 8.8 IRS from a self serve wrecking yard
$160 3.08:1 s10 front diff
$300 5.3 long block with intake. I have accessories left over from another project.
$150 starter, flexplate, coils
$100 engine harness
$30 pcm
$140 4L80e from self serve yard
$130 windshield/windows from junk yards
$575 custom shaft to use the tcase behind the 4L80e

So I've got $2200 in it. I still need wheels and tires, paint, turbo parts, any suspension upgrades, etc. But it's cheap so far.

To make it even cheaper, by the time I was done looking for parts I had 3 of these trucks. I put one together and sold it as a rat rod at a $1600 profit. I have all the major parts to put the 3rd one together and sell at a profit. Once it's sold I'll have all my money back plus some profit to spend on the parts I still need.



67 GMC

I bought it for $1200, sold the engine for $250, pieced together a 6.0/4l80e cheap rather than buying a pull out. I Bought a 5 lug, trailing arm chassis that already had drop spindles, air bags on the front, and a notch kit in the rear. I bought bags for the rear and new drop shocks all around. Shortened the frame and bed, put it all together. Modified left over ceramic coated headers and fuel system parts from other projects to get it running and drivable.

I've got $3100 in the whole truck so far. It's not super nice yet, but it's drivable and it's cheap so far considering what is there.



68 Mustang

$800 for the car
$350 for a Lincoln mark VIII with good 5.0 HO and trans
-$400 for the Mustang wheels
-$400 for the 289 from the Mustang
-$350 parting out the Lincoln

=Free so far, kept the engine, trans, axle, and wheels/tires from the Lincoln. Nothing special so far but it's free and could be drivable for little money.



79 10th anniv. TA

Paid $1300 for the car with a seized 403, interior totally destroyed, missing seats. I ended up with 3 more as parts cars. Kept the Olds 455 and headers that came with one of the parts cars. Kept a dash, set of seats, and a set of snowflake wheels. Put the 455 together and installed it. Parted out 2 parts cars, and sold one as a project.

I now have a total of $1000 into the car. I have $300 less into the car but now I've got a good engine, headers, a better dash, seats, various extra miscellaneous parts, and I can still sell the anniversary wheels for a few hundred bucks. I have a spare sub frame and axle, and other misc stuff that could all be sold to bring my total down more.


89 GTA LS1, t56 swap

I have around $11,000 in the whole thing. Stock LS1, monster clutch, Tick master cylinder, stage 2 trans rebuild kit from Tick, used Konis and Eibach springs, take off C6 wheels with new tires. I got a good deal on a donor and used as much as I could then parted out the rest so that helped keep the cost down. It's not super cheap but it's a fairly low total for a LS1 swapped 3rd gen with the mods it has. It would be a little cheaper if I hadn't put some money into the original engine, and I probably paid too much for the car in the first place.

[ixfn]

A good read, and a lot of different insights. I used to feel discouraged at times as well, until I gained enough perspective to not kid myself about actual needs, and how they relate to the outcome of the build. Actual needs meaning the parts needed to get the rubber on the road, not just the desire for the hottest, flashiest, most expensive parts trending in the market today. I'm tired of chasing perfection, I just want to enjoy my car. Good advice from a variety of perspectives.

[06RangerSTX]

I agree with everyone's assessment on this topic especially the trying to keep the dream alive. The thoughts seems to roughly be all along the same lines; from choosing a less popular platform to taking a project and planning slowly. I honestly am proud to be a part of this site and being able to listen to others is a valuable thing. But my story I am feeling will not work out so well with these thoughts. While I do have a good job; I need to think about the future of my family and what could be realistic as a dream. I feel like I am a bit skeptical when thinking that I will have another project one day. Unless some miracle happens in the near future; I will be saying goodbye to my car obsession.

[Onebad78ta]

Building a car with the best of all parts available is defiantly not for the guy who doesn't have the stomache to fork over the Benjamin's ,,,no matter the size of your wallet it hurts the same.

[Ghiaguy]

Another way is keep a look out for someone else blown up dream -- a project half done and given up on -- OR something a little less common --

I always get on Craigslist and type in race or drag just to see what pops up -- then hit other areas not to far off and do the same thing -- sometimes it's just parts sometimes it cars

I found my VW Karman Ghia about 6 hours from my house in Phoenix, BUT it was a complete SCCA E/M road race car that had been parked for 8 years for a couple grand -- -- wa-la instant race car that was already sorted out and just needed an engine -- I've made the car back into a street car and went way over the top with some of my mods (which I've done all myself so I could afford them), but I LOVE whooping up on V8's with my little 4 banger...

Just don't get hung up on all these Mega-Builds on here -- -- sure they're real nice, but stock brakes will work just fine for a quick parking lot run, old race tires will stick long after the race teams are done with them, Sway bars are ten times more important than new springs ;;;;;;

"It's what I've built, not what I've bought"

Lookie at this I just found -- -- http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/5125352736.html

[T_Raven]

I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is that if you are trying to make an old muscle car more like a modern muscle car, you can't expect to do that for $10,000 when those new cars are $40k+.


I'm a bit of a craigslist addict. I have an app on my phone with probably 30 saved searches. I'm on searchtempest almost daily just looking at what's for sale in other areas.

I'm over seas again, but in the 2 years I was home from 3/13-2/15, I bought 21 cars. I parted out and scrapped 6 of those at a profit or at least got my money back and had free parts. I sold a few others at a profit, and the ones I've kept are fairly cheap projects considering what they are and what I have invested in them.

Not everyone has the time and space for that but my point is there are always deals. People ask me all the time how I found certain things. I looked lol. I've missed way more killer deals I didn't see quick enough too.

My area is not very populated and there's not a huge car scene. It seems like places with more people and a more active craigslist section have more and better deals. You just have to be quick. Though sometimes even a good deal will be on there for months because the right buyer hasn't come along yet. I lived in Cali briefly a few years ago. I bought the 00 TA that donated it's engine and trans to my 89 for $2800 delivered. The engine and trans alone were worth more. He could've got twice that but he was deploying and needed it gone. I also bought about $3000 worth of almost brand new welding equipment in Orange County for $1300. Some old guy had recently bought all new machines but then had a pace maker put in and couldn't use them.

I've bought a lot of used performance parts on forums and ebay. The Fikses on my Firebird cost the last guy $6000 for the wheels and tires. He had them on his car for Sema and sold them to me for $3000 with about 1000 miles on them.

Any work you can do, or parts you can build yourself saves a ton. Rather than spend $6000 for a sub frame, I spent $1000 for a C5 front suspension, a couple hundred for tubing, and $80 for a quick ratio steering rack out of a Mustang. I'm confident in my fabrication abilities and know enough about geometry that I'm sure with some planning, studying, a lot of cussing, and some wasted tubing, I'll build a good suspension lol.

I've done a fair amount of body work but haven't painted a car yet. I plan to soon. You can buy a lot of practice for what a good paint job costs lol.

Not everyone has the equipment, time, and know how to do their own fabrication, rust repair, body work and paint, but anything that can be done is a huge factor in keeping a car cheap.

Now if I can just focus on one for a change and quit dragging new stuff home, maybe I'll get one done and have a nice pro-touring car rather than a bunch of projects.

[LIL' JT hauler]

The only way for anyone to get into classic cars for cheap is to take parts from other cars, and also to not dream too big. I don't autocross or road race my truck, but in the same breath there are no tracks or even good smooth roads. My truck just goes to shows and maybe a cruise here or there. Even if I did autocross it though it would still have stock dodge Dakota suspension. You shouldn't be there to set records because there will always be someone there who will have overspent to have state of the art suspension and drive train, just go and have a good time because you have nothing to prove to anybody.

[Aficionado]

It sounds like you've really chosen to take stock and focus on what's most important. Often hard, but it's always best to put your family and long term financial stability first.

With that said, that doesn't mean you have to give up the dream; you can always keep it as a long term goal while you focus on getting your house in order so it can happen. Many of us were in a similar position at one point; being broke and having to sell your dream car, only to spend years working back up to actually being able to afford it, is a story a lot of us could tell, but usually don't. It took me ten years; it could take you more or less depending on your circumstances and, frankly, how bad you want it. But let me encourage you that doing the right, but hard, thing now doesn't mean you can't have fun later: it means that when you do have fun, you don't regret it.

Well done.

[srh3trinity]

I am similar to Traven, I scour craigslist, PT and Lat-g and LS1tech for deals. I don't get in any hurry. I have owned my car for years and knew when I started that I wouldn't be able to build it for awhile. When I couldn't afford to do anything big, I would buy engine parts or something that I would need eventually. The other day I found a guy that had a ZL1 supercharger, two sets of LS3 heads, an LS3 intake and a junked LS2 mock up block. He was trying to sell them off individually, but I bought the lot. Some of these parts I will keep for a future project and others I will pass on to the next guy. Two days later, I scored another LS2 block that a guy had pulled to go with an aftermarket block. I am looking at doing a truck next. For some reason, in my mind they are simpler (even though they really aren't) and they don't have to look like a show car. A truck with a little patina is actually pretty cool and paint/body are huge budget killers. Most full size trucks came with V8's and the aftermarket supports the truck world and has for a long time. Also, I can build it up over time. If I want to do dropped spindles and cheap big brakes for now, I can pretty cheaply. Down the road, I can scrounge up some money and go with Porterbuilt, No Limit, Roadster Shop, Speedtech, Ridetech, etc because they are all flooding the market with C10 stuff right now.

[T_Raven]

^^^Yeah trucks can be cheap and fun.

I see people wanting a lot of money for complete 47-55 Chevys and GMCs that are in rough shape. I pieced all 3 of mine together cheap by not buying complete trucks.

My 67 has nice patina. I shortened the frame and bed and I'll just touch up the paint on the seams and leave the rest alone.

Having a sporty little old classic truck that you don't care about scratching is a lot of fun. I should've built one years ago.

[T_Raven]

I've gotten a lot of good deals on cars and trucks that were 2-4 hours away out in the middle of no where. It's inconvenient for people to go look at them but the prices were so low I just loaded up the trailer, grabbed cash and hit the road. I can think of 4 I probably could've just relisted and sold at a profit just by bringing them back to a more populated area.


Considering it took me 4 hrs to drive 30 miles across LA to buy a welder, I no longer mind driving 4 hrs to Montana to buy a car lol.

[Ishmael]

I'm 40. I've been working on the car on and off for 12 years. I've owned it since I was 15. Some have money. Some have skills. Apparently I have time and some patience. What do you have?

[yellow1098Greg]

Great read of this thread even though it's been up for awhile....Iv been slowly working on my TA for years as well... I wish I was little better at finding those used parts on craigslist and forums.....I can't never find anything and I'm down here in Orlando....always think I'm doing something wrong

[Decline]

Good advice here
I agree with alot of the above comments about older vettes. C5s can be had for under $10g and the performance per dollar is nuts. This past weekend at fontana Hotchkis autoX they were some of the fastest cars out there against some serious PT muscle.
Ive seen C4 and C3 for $5gs but those are going to require some upgrades to drive nice but you will have the classic style.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5228461408.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5195822833.html

Getting the Car and the parts is only half the equation tho. My car was down for prbly 8-9 months total this year while i was getting everything installed/sorted out. Projects take years really and are an evolution

[nekkidhillbilly]

ive had the same 66 skylark since i was 21 years old and its been on blocks since i was 23. i do buy alot of used stuff.

[nekkidhillbilly]

the best way ive found to be cheap though is buy a 4 door car and buy something from 73 up might not look as cool as that 66 2 door hardtop but it cost nothing and you already have better suspension and rear end.

[MonzaRacer]

As I have stated before, I started building up my projects, maintaining my cars and actually driving a few, repairing along the way. My dad had a 1/4" skill drill, harbor freight tap set, some of his old wrenches and stuff, my school issued ool box and what I pick up used, borrow or buy new along the way.
first car was my 66 Dart GT, fixed turn sig switch with used parts, swapped fragged rear and rebuilt brakes with dads help, treaded for some hop up stuff on the slant six, found it had rust and dad had me get ride of it. Got a 69 Pontiac Executive, green on green on green. Lucky me it was dark green. Ended up with old superior fake basket wire wheels, Grand Am white letter tires, rebuilt another 400 for it, aded a dual gate 2 shifter and some power buckets from ex room mates GP, while driving this one found 66 Galaxie 500 289 2bbl 3 spd on tree, found t10 4 speed and shifter, added new clutch, it was bad one, had to replace second time. Put on some air shocks, got brakes going, got running with used,cheap, take off parts. Drove till found frame had rust, pulled engine, traded for some paint work, sold 4 spd, parked body thinking might find frame or pro street it. wound getting crushed out of buddies field by accident, Also picked up 69 Ventura, stripped Executive to rebuild Ventura, still have it. Picked up couple of 75-75 Buick Skyhawks, built a cheap 327 forged piston engine, went drag racing on $400 car (total build), pulled with 61 longbed unibody F100/ 292/granny 4speed, wound up selling and getting a suzuki bike for truck money, made Buick daily driver, then came across 70 Monte Carlo, no rust, no engine, trans, beige. Swapped 327 into Monte after trans went out, bought the stock MC trans back, also scrounged several ralleys. Bought some rings and centers used. Dropped valve in 327, installed borrowed used 350, bought a 12 bolt from 64-67 a body 3.55 limited slip. Wound up finding shop selling new Kelsey Hayes 8' Vette ralleys. Bought 2 with new Hoosier radial GTs.
also in there was 2 short bed Ranger pickups, one bought 350/pg other rebuilt from first one I wrecked.
ALSO wrecked second Ranger(hit semi trailer).
In 94 from ranger wreck I got broken hip,collar bone, as I healed I built a fresh 402 bbc for Monte, 7 weeks out from broken hip doc let me start walking on leg and in 3 weeks had it running, 2 weeks after got bbc on road trans goes out, swapped in used th400.
NONE of these vcars from 1984 through 1994 EVER had mre than maybe $1500 spent on them