bending and flaring stainless brake lines??

[bbcmonte]

I plan to get a 3/16 stainless brake line kit. What tools do I need? How hard is it to bend and flar?

[Spork82]

With proper tools it will be a straight forward job. With stainless you can use all AN fittings with 37 degree flares.

Also a single flare is all you need with stainless.

Rigid makes an awesome flare tool designed for stainless lines. This is a must as conventional flare tools may distort the flare.

Bending the line you can use any of the brake line benders on the market.

Cutting stainless is the tricky part as a standard pipe cutter will work harden the stainless and it will split when to try to flare it.

Use a cut off wheel or hacksaw. Clean up the end with a file, I use a 1/8" drill bit to clean up the hole before flaring.

Also take your time, map out your system. Stainless is a little harder to work with but looks great when finished.

[bbcmonte]

Should I buy it by the line already flared and just bend it?

[Spork82]

I think there are some places that sell pre flared ends.

You should make it out of coat hanger to see how much you would need.

I'm into mine for about $300 for tools and hardware, all lines are custom bent and run.

[bbcmonte]

I can get the lines from jegs

[Spork82]

I bought a couple from jegs, but I ended up cutting those flares and going with AN fittings.

Zoro tools has a good selection of stainless tubing. One thing to keep in mind is to make you buy seamless tubing.

[parsonsj]

If you haven't bought the SS, consider Cunifer tubing: http://store.fedhillusa.com/?gclid=CjwKEAiAo8emBRCX_OqU4qek6y8SJACzgf8f-Mad6TC8wnJujdXxYFp8Z9MB7RKmxdrduGRu_VIOtBoCuILw_wc B

[rohrt]

I tried to do SS on my ride. I tried all suggestions I could find to do the flares. It was horrible and I had many leaks.

Replaced it all with pre bent mild steel line.

[parsonsj]

Right. Stainless steel looks good, but it's really not the right material. It's too hard to flare, difficult to bend, hard to find in long enough lengths, and work hardens quickly.

The Cunifer tubing is a dream to use, and is OEM on many European vehicles. Once you use it, you'll never consider stainless steel again.

[wiedemab]

Not to derail from the original question, but JP - -Have you ever used Cu/Ni alloy for fuel lines? I've been told it would work fine and have thought about it, but????

[parsonsj]

I've used aluminum in previous projects, but I'm using the Cunifer on my current project. The car isn't running yet, but making the fuel lines was simple.

108546

[bbcmonte]

Thanks, I will be going with conifer tubing also.

[Hydratech®]

After all is said in this discussion, I would like to toss my experience into the mix too FWIW, in the hopes that it may help somebody / somewhere / sometime attempting to tangle with stainless steel brake lines. As everybody says, stainless "work hardens" to such levels that even high quality double flare tools are challenged to make a proper concentric double flare at the "finish line". I have battled this so many times that I won't even go near a custom SS brake line build without my MAPP gas / Oxy Acetylene torch handy to flame anneal the end of the brake line before attempting to double flare. Why? This actually softens the SS material enough to get a nice clean double flare, though it does discolor the brake line requiring a scrub with 3M ScotchBrite to get the visual back in place (and then you end up subsequently scrubbing the whole brake line to get it all to look the same). This process also helps to keep the flared end reasonably soft enough to seat without having to blaze it with excessive torque attempt after attempt. Do note that it may still take an initial torque / loosen / retorque as needed sequence to achieve a positive seal (lube your tube nut and brake line end with some Moly goo to prevent thread galling). I have had to do this even on Pro supplied "finished" brake line sets to get them to seal properly. If you have wasted the (usually brass) seat in the item receiving the SS flared brake line end trying to get a seal = good luck in trying to ever get it to seal again no matter how perfect your (replacement) double flared may be.

Summary? Get the end of the brake line good and orange with heat as quick and localized as you can manage, but most certainly don't melt it (as that will also wreck it too). Wait for it to cool down some, then go at it with your double flare tools / techniques. Stainless steel brake lines will outlive you even if sunk to the bottom of the ocean, but will you outlive your experience in working with stainless? I don't have anymore hair to pull out of my head these days, but I (finally) have enough experience in knowing what to do with SS brake lines (!)

:cheers:

[bbcmonte]

Thanks,I think iam going to stay away from stainless brake lines.

[Nicks67GTO]

On a whim last year I decided to buy that fancy Eastwood brake flaring tool. Its a little pricey but boy is it easy to flare tube. I used that Ni/Cu for lines from my master cylinder to my prop valve and it worked really well. It was easy to bend and flare and looks decent. I just bought chunks of it at Advanced Auto...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/20141116_143105_zpsvhuzuvqp-1.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/novaguy73/media/Brakes/20141116_143105_zpsvhuzuvqp.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/20141116_143003_zpsnwx5nc4y-1.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/novaguy73/media/Brakes/20141116_143003_zpsnwx5nc4y.jpg.html)

[Jetfixr320]

Cunifer tubing is the same as Ni/Cu.
Copy and past from the site John listed. FedHill is the exclusive importer for Cunifer™ brake line products. Cunifer™ is a seamless, copper-nickel alloy DOT approved brake line.

I've heard good things about the Ni/Cu though. And will try it on my next build.

Another option for SS, Mild steel or Aluminum is to do a 37 deg single flare and use AN fittings. That's what I did on my Falcon.

[bbcmonte]

Thanks, I am on a roman noodle budget. Nick,

[Motorcitydak]

The Cunifer tubing is a dream to use, and is OEM on many European vehicles. Once you use it, you'll never consider stainless steel again.

x2, used it for my fuel line so far and will do the brakes too, will never used anything else. Only problem I had was trying to make a hard 90 +degree bend, kinked a few times and ended up having to space out a few lesser bends to get what I wanted

[bbcmonte]

Thanks,for the info about bending it.

[Motorcitydak]

First attempts at bending 3/8's to a 90 degree

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/DSCF3032_zps7857f430-1.jpg (http://s57.photobucket.com/user/motorcitydak/media/DSCF3032_zps7857f430.jpg.html)

Spaced the bends out slightly

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/DSCF3037_zpsb43b6839-1.jpg (http://s57.photobucket.com/user/motorcitydak/media/DSCF3037_zpsb43b6839.jpg.html)

BTW, 3/8's is good to 7000psi, smaller sizes are even higher. Will probably use 1/4 for my brake lines

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Hmmmm, good to know. I'll have to check out that Cunifer stuff.

[parsonsj]

I've no problem at all with 3/8 up to 180 degree bends. I think the problem Steve is having is tool related.

[cpd004]

I've no problem at all with 3/8 up to 180 degree bends. I think the problem Steve is having is tool related.

John what tool are you using for 90 degree and more bends?

[astroracer]

The hand benders work okay for soft copper tubing and the smaller 3/16THS TO 5/16THS steel and NiCop lines. The larger NiCop and steel lines need a dedicated follower bender that draws the tubing thru dies to make good bends. The other issue is the larger tubing has a "minimum" bend radius and any hand bender that tries to take it smaller then the minimum WILL kink it.
Here are some test bends I did on 1/2" hydraulic line with a Harbor Freight hand bender. It works real well on the softer stuff but this hydraulic tubing kicked it's ass... As seen here...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC001Fvi-3.jpg
I found a nice bender at Speedway http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tubing-Pipe-Bender,9848.html
After setting that up and running a few test bends in steel and aluminum tubing I am very happy with the machine.

With all of the dies it came with I think it was an excellent deal! The 1/2" tube bent fine with the machine mounted to one of my jig tables.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC008Fvi-2.jpg
Here is a 90 degree in some 1/2" aluminum tubing alongside the original test piece.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC002Fvi-2.jpg
Here is a 90 in that same 1/2" steel line...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/MVC004Fvi-3.jpg
Much improved. The radius is about 2 1/4" which is a bit larger then it needs to be. That is most of the issue with the hand bender. To short of a radius (you can see it is much smaller) which flattens out the tube.
Mark

[parsonsj]

I use Ridgid benders. Expensive ($100 or so per bender, and you need one for each diameter).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/02/mediakey83f9b1fcaaaa47dca16c0d7d87ce5d57-1.jpg

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/400-series-instrument-benders

[Spork82]

Well after finishing my brake system in SS with AN fittings I have decided to pull it all out and go with cunifer with AN fittings. I had a couple leaks when I first installed it all, but after loosening and re-tightening the fittings the leaks stopped.

Main reason I am doing the change is I'm not a fan of how hard I had to crank on the tube nuts to get a satisfactory seal, second being flex. The stainless has zero give once installed, with the way I have my lines run into the firewall with bulkheads there isn't much give with braking.

Plus it's a cheap upgrade and with funds being at an all time low (Got married, bought a house, renovated said house. Which is far more important than the car) gives me a reason to wrench on the car.

I bought a Ridgid bender and flare tool last time and I will be turning back to those handy tools for this job.

[pittpens24]

FWIW - I bought the Eastwood flare tool kit with the 37* attachment. Yes it is a lot of $ but it worked flawlessly on my 3/16 stainless lines. The biggest issue I had was making the 90* bends close to the fitting - better have eaten all your Wheaties! I also bought brake line from Summit Racing in a roll and made myself a brake line straightener for $35 that worked flawlessly. Sounds like you have already made your decision and have things under control, but just wanted to add my input.
Greg

[parsonsj]

37* degree (single) flares aren't an issue with SS. I use an Imperial Plumbing hand tool that works well on SS.

It's the 45* double flares (aka SAE flare) that's the problem.

http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=46/category_id=70/mode=prod/prd46.htm

[dhutton]

Here is the secret sauce to getting stainless flares to seal. They come in various sizes.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-169103erl

Don

[pittpens24]

37* degree (single) flares aren't an issue with SS. I use an Imperial Plumbing hand tool that works well on SS.

It's the 45* double flares (aka SAE flare) that's the problem.

http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=46/category_id=70/mode=prod/prd46.htm

I had to do the 45* double flares on the stainless too with the Eastwood tool - so far so good! I just made sure to lube up with oil to make the process easier and used annealed stainless line from Summit.