1962 Thunderbird

[Great White]

Hi All.

I've had this car for a while (approx 7 years) but haven't done much with it.

Here's a little backstory on that:

I'm military (airforce) and we get moved around a fair bit (every 2-3 years). About 7 years ago, a 62 TBird showed up in the local classifieds. I'm a TBird guy from way back and my wife knows it. We went to look at it since it was listed pretty cheap (2500).

When we got to the guys house, he led us to the backyard where the car was:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

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Story was his Dad bought it from the original owner, who had let it sit in a garage for nearly 30 years. His Dad passed away earlier that year and he was selling it to put the money into the truck you see in the pictures above.

I started checking it out. It was partially torn apart, but all the little bits and pieces were in boxes and bags in the shed. Every piece I looked for I found so it appeared complete.

The trunk was torn out of it and it needed rear 1/4 panels. No big for an eastern Canada car, you pretty much expect it. I got underneath and started checking sheet metal

Magnet: Checks out good.

Body pick: Checks out good (or so it seemed).

It all looked pretty good except for the rear sections. It was a little hard to do a good check since it was tarred to within and inch of it's life, but the magnets stuck and the pick (apparently) hit solid metal everywhere I went.

The fuel tank was out of it and the guy had a copper line from the fuel pump to a jerry can. Battery was also long dead so he had a jumper pack. The engine bay was a little funky, the wiring was a mess and someone had gone just a tad overboard with the gold rattle can paint:

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Body color on the data plate was "silver mink" (light blue with hint of silver, almost a color shifter). But the engine bay had burgundy, blue and white panels in it. All rattled canned flat black. So I figured it had the front clip replaced at some time in it's life after a punch in the nose type accident. Oddly enough, I couldn't find any other signs of damage and it all looked straight (when I got it home I measured and the engine bay is square).

I put my hand on the block and exhaust manifolds and they felt dead cold. Couple pumps of the throttle and it fired right up. A quick puff of smoke and then it settled into a nice steady fast idle. No odd noises. A free a few seconds I kicked it off high idle and it settled into a reasonably smooth idle.

Well, it ran well enough and that funky mess of a wiring harness didn't burst into flames, so that's a plus!

Shifting through the gears moved the car, but it obviously wasn't drivable in it's current state. Brakes were nearly non existent anyways (drums brakes combined with age and neglect are not a good mix). The dash guages all worked (except the clock, which never does on these), as did all the power windows. Lights all worked as per also.

So we haggled down to 2000 and my wife ordered up a rollback to take it home.....I was giggling like a little kid inside.

I had a Bullet bird!

:)

[Great White]

Once we got it home, things started going sideways.

I got it up on jackstands and started tearing it apart:

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The trunk and crap work the PO had done on the 1/4's was obvious and evident when were haggled on it so no surprises there:

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I kind of wish he had lef tthe crusty old panels alone, at least I could have used them as templates. Oh well, all those panels can be bought aftermarket so it's just a clean it up and weld 'er in.

But upon pulling up the carpets, my gut just dropped:

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The floorboards and rockers were rusted out!

Drivers side was marginally better, but only marginally:

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The dirty bugger had done a "paint and paper" job on it. He had used construction adhesive to glue sections of metal over the holes and then goofed it full of tar from underneath. Explains why he didn't want to let me pull up the carpets, saying he had just glued new ones in and didn't want them torn up. I should have insisted....I should have also questioned why he "glued" carpets down....but it was still his car and I could only do what he allowed me to.

Again, panels are available, but it's more money I didn't think I would have to spend. Those I'll probably just fix with some 18 gauge sheet.

I found the same in the rear frame rails.

But the big problem is these cars are unibodies, so the panels and rockers are structural. The more I dug, the more I found, the more my gut dropped. The heavy members in the rockers were totally gone on the passenger side and I'll have to fab them from scratch since they aren't repopped. What I'll likely do is just grab a couple 8 foot sections of 2x4 square tube and slide them into the rocker sections. Then weld them in to make sure the structure is solid. That will work out with the plans I have for adding some torsional rigidity to the unibody anyways.

Now, it's all nothing I can't fix, but it p*ss*d me off I didn't see the extent of the rust. I've looked at lots of cars "faked" the same way for friends and always found the problem for them. Magnet and pick usually shows it up right away. But this guy was crafty: pieces of sheet glued over the rust holes in floor and frame, then goofed with tar/undercoat until you couldn't see anything.

The only good thing I can say about the rockers is the doors still shut like a new car and all the body lines are straight so nothing has shifted or sagged. At least I can start straight and put strength back in vice trying to get it all square first.

I can only account my "blindness" to being too caught up in the moment of buying a bullet bird so cheap. You can't find many of them them in Eastern Canada (usually all returned to Mother earth) and if you do find one, they're mega bucks (10-15+ G).

Oh well, live and learn......

[Great White]

So, gutted as I was there were only two paths to choose: fix it or get rid of it.

I chose fix it.

I started fabricating structural members and a few small panels. You can see one of them sitting on the trans hump in this pic that will be part of the passenger side rocker:

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I had just started and the military decided it was time for me to move. A "deal" was struck and my posting was to be short and then we would be coming back to the same location. We chose to keep the house and the car and move. Everything went into deep storage.

Long story short: that was 8 years and several postings ago. We sold the house last year and the 'Bird was moved to a friends field until further notice.

We just found out a few months ago, we are being moved back to where the car is (thanks, we just sold the freakin' house!).

Our new house is only a single car garage, so that's where the "bird work will happen.

First, I have to sell my 2004 300M Special. That should go pretty easily. It's nice and clean, all leather and one of my favorites. Just no room to keep it.

My 83 Mustang will also have to go. It's a V6 (mule engine to move it around since the 351 put a window int he block) and I'll likely just scrap it. It could be saved, but it's got rust in places I just don't want to deal with. I'll pull the TC seats out of it, pull the rims and tires off (sell 'em for cash), cut the OEM sunroof out (toying with putting it in the 'Bird), pull the brake system out of it (dual master and combo block for the bird) and take the engine bay harness with the Duraspark system to convert the 390 in the bird. May pull the floor shifter out and any other bits I might be able to use. Might be able to swap the cruise control in as I installed it in the mustang from an 83 TBird and it's pretty simple. Toying with the thought of cutting out some sheet metal for patch panels for the 'Bird, maybe the sway bars too, but they're likely not wide enough for the 'Bird.

[Great White]

So, where to go with the old hack?

Plans are to eventually use it as a nice summer cruiser, something that can get out of it's own way and not look completely out of place on a twisty section of road.

Maybe the wife and I will take it out on some Road Rally or Targa Style events and use it to drive my young daughter around when she visits (I'm divorced) since my truck doesn't have enough seats for all of us.

Maybe throw it around some cones in autocross, but that's just for personal grins and giggles. Nothing competitive.

First thing to address is the rust and structural issues. That's straight up metal work for the most part.

Since this is a unibody, the rockers are major structural members. They'll get beefed up with some square tubing. The "subframes" will get connected and I'll see about boxing in the front and rear torque boxes. Its a given the floor will get beefed up in the seat mounts by tying the into the subframe connectors.

There will be some bracing in the firewall area and it will be tied into the spring towers. A "monte carlo" style bar (a la Mustang) will also be added.

There may be some bracing added in the trunk area just to help stabilize the rear spring mounts. Its not like I'm too concerned about luggage space. Lol!

There's lots of concepts/ideas for torsional stiffness to be gleaned from the Mustang/Falcon camp. Not the same, but similar architecture. Stuff like this:

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Lots of concepts to look to for ideas/inspiration. :)

Once the metal work is sorted, it'll get a spray of the original "Silver Mink" paint. I'm not completely sold on that, but it's a front runner. The other color in my mind is a straight up metallic silver.

Suspension is yet to be determined, but I will keep the leaf spring rears for a while. The front will get freshened up with new components and run like that for a while.

steering will get rebuilt, but plans are to eventually switch over to a center takeoff steering rack.

Brakes are the area where more time will be spent. First off, the single MC will be replaced for one from a dual MC for safeties sake. The MC and combo block from the 83 mustang will do for the time being.

The front brakes will be mostly SN95 stuff. The drums will come off and I'll slip a set of SN95 13" rotors on there. A little machining will make it work nicely. The SN95 dual piston calipers will also be pressed into service. Once I get the rotors mounted to the hub, I'll spin up a bracket to hold the calipers. I'll source a Mark VII MC to do duty pushing the pistons, or I may look for the same bore mustang MC with the plastic reservoir. Flex lines will just be the Mustang ones and I'll bend up some custom lines.

I'd like to say I'll be the first, but I ran across a gent in Sweden who's already done it to a mustang spindle:

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Some nice work there. Great thing about it is the OEm spindles are used, which at least keeps the suspension/steering within oem spec (IE: ackermann, bump steer, KIA, etc).

Rear brakes will be drums for the immediate future, a quick tear down and rehab will hopefully sort them out (only so much money in the pot). Rear discs will follow later on.

Since I'm working in a single car garage, the car has to remain a roller. SN95 brakes are not going to fit in the OEM 14" rims. I've got a couple extra 300M sets of rims, one is a 17" BBS knock-off style. A little digging shows they have the same 5x4.5 bolt pattern, but a 35-40 MM offset. They'll at least do for some rollers in the garage with a couple cheap spacers. Maybe even work as drivers with good spacers (until I can afford proper rims with the right offset) as long as the scrub radius is good. They actually don't look too bad in a quick photochop I did up:

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Those are the actual rims, the car is just one I grabbed of the internet.

If nothing else, the 225 65 tires will look better than the bias ply skinnies when I open the garage door. LOL!

The drivetrain will get a quick going through and a freshening up. As long as it checks out half decent (compression, shifting, etc) I'll pretty it up some with paint and call it a day. If I find an aluminum intake manifold for the old FE engine cheap, I'll throw it on and drop the boat anchor cast iron jobbie (and about 60 lbs!).

I will probably eventually dump the old FE though. It would be cool to keep it, but it's one big heavy beast and a small block can make the same power (more rpm though) and drop and easy 100+ lbs off the nose.

The old "cruise-o-matic" 3 speed auto is also a bit of a pig. Center section is cast iron and it's built for silky smooth shifts. Tough old trans, but weighs a ton compared to an all AL case modern transmission. Aftermarket support is essentially non-existent for it also.

I would like to switch to EFI and a new crate 428 Windsor along with an AOD of some sort. I'd like to swap for drive-ability, MPG, power, aftermarket support and weight savings. But that's bucks I won't have to spend for several years.

That's pretty much my plan as it sits. get it structurally sound, get it safe (ie: brakes), shoot some paint on it's flanks and start enjoying it. The rest will come as time and budget allows.

we move back in feb, and then it will be another month or three before we get sorted. Then I'll bring the 'Bird home from the field and start work again.

:)

With any luck, work won't screw me around again.....:rolleyes:

[Dave B]

I think you did well, even for that price. It's well worth buying the right stuff to fix it right. Just save up that Canadian Tire money...you'll need it.

[rustomatic]

I've been liking these T-birds more and more lately--there are tons of them in northern CA in various states of repair...

[Great White]

I think you did well, even for that price. It's well worth buying the right stuff to fix it right. Just save up that Canadian Tire money...you'll need it.

LOL!

Screw Crappy Tire. I can't remember the last time I bought something from them. Mostly garbage.

Oh wait, that's a lie. I bought a Mobile one filter from them a couple months ago......

[andrewb70]

Cool project!

Andrew

[Rick Dorion]

I like it! My wife and I saw some of that vintage in the ad digest and liked them.

[Great White]

Picked up an old atlas 10x42 lathe the other day.

Been wanting a lathe for quite a while, now I can start making all those jammy little bits myself.

[dhutton]

This 63 caught my eye the other day. Looks very solid.

http://petesclassiccars.com/1964Ford/dd.htm

Don

[wfo guy]

Watching and waiting. That series has been in my mind for several years. You will probably help make a decision. :)

[andrewb70]

Picked up an old atlas 10x42 lathe the other day.

Been wanting a lathe for quite a while, now I can start making all those jammy little bits myself.

Please be careful. Some of the most horrific pictured I've seen were of lathe accidents.

Andrew

[injcted]

Very cool project!!! Old T-Birds are very cool!!!!

[Great White]

Please be careful. Some of the most horrific pictured I've seen were of lathe accidents.

Andrew

No worries. I've been trained and use one at work. Little bit bigger than the atlas though.....;)

[Great White]

This 63 caught my eye the other day. Looks very solid.

http://petesclassiccars.com/1964Ford/dd.htm

Don

Miles better shape than mine!

[Great White]

Watching and waiting. That series has been in my mind for several years. You will probably help make a decision. :)

Here's a few more "shoves" then:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1512.0

http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=8473

IMHO, the 61-63 tbirds are pretty much "undiscovered country". They're heavy and seen as luxo barges, but that styling is hard to beat. They're also relatively cheap compared to their contemporaries. I find it a side bonus that all the "old foggies" loose their minds when you start talking about cutting them up. Heck, they loose their minds when you tell about modern rims and tires or running it without skirts! Lol!

All it needs is a good suspension, some chassis work, weight savings and a decent power train.

Pretty much the way a pt car is built isn't it?

:)

[andrewb70]

Why do modern Ford engines have to be as big as refrigerators!?

Andrew

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Sorry about hiccups you found along the way..but will be very rewarding when it's done!

[Great White]

Why do modern Ford engines have to be as big as refrigerators!?

Andrew

Don't know what to tell ya, they make em the way they make em.

Still lightweights compared to my 390 though.......

[andrewb70]

Don't know what to tell ya, they make em the way they make em.

Still lightweights compared to my 390 though.......

I think a big block chevy is "lightweight" compared to the FE engines...LOL

Andrew

[RMMiller]

I like these cars, there's one for sale Craigs List that I am lusting for but I only have room for one project and it's a little far away. Too bad too, it's a cool one, M code 390 tri-power car.

http://kpr.craigslist.org/cto/4875257931.html

108578

[Great White]

Asking too much for what it is in my opinion. The tri carb setup is not original (they came in the trunk from for and dealer installed) and the engine is a replacement. He's asking prices for an all original 62 that's suitable for a restoration and show circuit car. That one is a nice driver at best, even after restoration. Drivers can be had for 5-10 grand.

Here it is in the tbird registry with the info: http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdatasheet.aspx?RegistryNumber=3847

M codes are nothing special of you're looking for a car to cut up. Theyre not worth much more than a regular 61-63 anyways IMHO.

Different story if its an actual roadster though....they command a hefty price. Although I've never been sure why. They're just a convertible with a grab bar on the passenger side dash, a fiberglass tonneau cover over the rear seats and Kelsey Hayes wire wheels. Oh yes, the tripower setup that you could walk into any ford dealership and buy over the counter that got you another 40 HP and a pita to tune.

All the old foggie tbird guys try to make them out to be the holy grail.

I say big whoop. I'd rather spend 7 grand on a solid driver and put the rest of my cash into building it into something besides a wallowing luxo-barge.

:)