What would you do with a $10K budget?

[Josue]

Doing my research over the winter, so I can be prepared for next season! I have plans to purchase my parent's 1968 Firebird by then, and I'll have around a $10,000 budget to work with in bringing the car into this millennium...

The car won't be a daily driver, but my goal IS to drive it as much as the weather will allow. Plenty of nice days over the course of 5-6 months, so it should get driven quite a bit still. As far as the car itself, I'm looking for your basic, budget pro-touring treatment...I'd like to touch as much on the car as possible, for not a lot of bank. I should add though, that I don't mind shelling out the money for kits, as opposed to scouring the internet, piecing this, that and the other together, just to save a few bucks. I'd much rather pay the extra money for a brake kit that has everything I need, an all inclusive suspension package, etc.

The way I figure, with my budget, I can either upgrade the whole drivetrain (engine, trans, rear end), OR upgrade the cast of supporting characters....suspension, brakes, steering, wheels/tires, and maybe some odds and ends. The car runs and drives fine as it is, but it's just a worn out Pontiac 350 with a Holley 650, mild cam, full exhaust, and a 2sp Powerglide. Sounds great, but doesn't even get out of it's own way. lol Ideally, I'd like to have the money to keep a built Pontiac motor in it, and go EFI and a blower, but I know you can't beat a LS swap for convenience, budget, and drivability. I kind of feel like it might be an exercise in futility though, to have a great drivetrain like that, if you're still rocking sloppy steering and suspension, atrocious manual drum brakes on all 4 corners, and boat trailer wheels!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/20140718_190052_zpsvbqlx64j-1.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/josue309/media/Vehicles%202/1969%20Firebird/20140718_190052_zpsvbqlx64j.jpg.html)

As much fun as the car would be in a straight line, I think I'd get sour at the braking and cornering performance before long. I'll also HATE walking up to it every time, and having to stare at those god awful wheels. I've been looking at them for 20 years now, ack!

What would you guys do? If possible, can you point me in the right direction of your opinion? I've been looking at the DSE suspension kits, ridetech, hotchkis, Kore3, SSBC, etc....but what are the other companies out there?

[Auto Rod Technologies]

I would start with suspension, wheels and brakes.

[Red67Mustang]

I would start with suspension, wheels and brakes.

X2 on that sentiment. The car will be worse to drive than it is today if you do nothing to the suspension, steering and brakes - yet dump a bunch more power into it. As a result it would sit in the garage. Start by improving handling.

[Josue]

That's what I had in mind too, makes sense.

How much is really necessary to vastly improve a car like this? A set of 4 controll arms, coil overs, roll bars, etc? Or can I get away with only uppers or lowers, good shocks, leaf springs still, etc?

[hotrodalex]

I'd try to upgrade the suspension as much as possible while still leaving a little money left over to massage the engine a bit and maybe swap transmissions.

Front: DSE/Ridetech/etc kit with 2" drop springs, new shocks, control arms, sway bar, etc.
Rear: new shocks, sway bar, possibly new leafs or lowering blocks to even out ride height

+ brake kit (14" may be overkill if you're not going to do track days, it's up to you. they do fill out 18"+ wheels better)
+ wheels and tires

A lot of guys switch to a 4-link suspension in the rear, but obviously that's more money. Again it's up to you, your goals, and your budget. Personally I think the leaf springs can do well enough to have plenty of fun.

You may want to upgrade the seats as well, to something with a little more side bolstering.

[TheJDMan]

I would start with suspension, wheels and brakes.

That is exactly where I would start too. Buy a complete suspension kit from someone like Ridetech, Chris Alston, DSE, Speedtech, Hotchkis, etc. where all the parts work together as a well balanced system. Then find a nice set of brakes and wheels. The car can be driven with the current drive train for now and upgraded later. Bret the owner of Ridetech is here on the forum all the time and those guys are very good. Also, you could call and ask for Carl at Chris Alston Chassisworks he also knows his stuff. Chassisworks also has a great product line for the 1st gen F body. And don't forget Detroit Speed. Bottom line is there are a ton of great suspension companies all of which sell great products. You just need to spend some time (read that as months) reading various suspension threads to get a good feel for what all is available.

[72BBSwinger]

With 10K? An LS3 and a 6spd. If you listen to all the LS fanboy's you would still have 5k left over after those 2 things lol. But in reality, with careful shopping 10K could swing it.

[Quikbrd]

Make the car more drivable, go with suspension & brakes. Do yourself a favor, call Mark at S, C & C. He can be hard to get ahold of,, because he is busy and when you get him on the phone, he can talk forever, mostly because he knows what he is talking about. I'm not kidding, eat lunch, use the restroom, give him a call and have a full hour to kill, take notes and tell him what your goals are and what your budget will allow, he will not steer you wrong, you can thank me later. Good luck, Ray
PS, then your gonna want more power,,,,,,

[Josue]

Any other companies I should be looking into for suspension? Seems like there are a ton out there, but only the more popular ones are popping into my head!

Ridetech is nice, but a little on the expensive side, and likely would be more than I'd need; 4 control arms, 2 spindles, 4 coil overs, and a 4 link, for $3900. Hotchkis seems alright too, but you have to pay big bucks to get control arms in their kits. Or, the stage 1 kit includes parts for front AND back, coils, roll bars, leafs, shackles, and tie rod adjusters, for $1,800, but you still need to buy shocks. You do get a rear sway bar too though! Has me wondering how "necessary" are tubular control arms for me to be desiring them as I am? As opposed to just buying some del-a-lum bushings for my stock control arms? Seems like more of a budget build there. I just see everyone else's builds on here, and it makes me think that I need tubular arms?

DSE speed 1 kit looks like it may do the trick for me if that's the case; 4 control arms, 2" drop springs, roll bar, and Koni Classic Shocks, for $2045. Although, someone told me to spring for some Koni adjustable shocks so I can adjust ride quality? The speed 3 kit adds beefed up tie rods w/adjusters, DSE 600 steering gear with rag joint and pitman arm, and coil overs. Upgrading the steering was on my list as well, but I don't know if I'd like or need coil overs? I just don't know much about them? If I'd need to be adjusting them all the time or what? I'm more of a "set it and forget it" kind of guy...so if I can just get some nice shocks, throw them in and be done with it, I'd be happy. I'd like to say that I'll be tracking this car from time to time, but realistically, that won't happen for years and years, so I don't want to go all out now and max my budget out.

The DSE rear kit is $780, and that's leafs (I'd get the 3" drop), heavy duty shackles, and Koni Classic Shocks again. So, seems like a reasonable suspension setup would be a little under $3,000.

I've yet to look into brakes, but again, an all inclusive kit is definitely on my list...right down to the master cylinder. I'd like to fill the wheels out too, so I'll look for those 14" kits for sure! I'm figuring on around $2,000 for brakes, but if I can get out of it cheaper, then great!

I'll need a few odds and ends too, like solid body bushings, and something for the steering. Maybe a new, sportier steering wheel too...they don't seem to be terribly expensive. Feels like I'm driving a bus when I drive the car now. lol The rest of the interior is on my list, as far as seat belts go. I'll have a 3 year old, and a 1 year old this summer, so I need to make it as safe as I can for them to ride in. Seats would be nice, but I'll manage with the stock ones for now.

Lastly, here are the wheels I had in mind. Year One Bandit Snowflakes! I think they're around $500/ea, but Year One's website doesn't say. I thought I saw that price in their catalog. Probably a little under $3,000 for this set up; shipping, tires, mount and balance, etc.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/Banditwheels2_zpsaba542fc-1.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/josue309/media/1968%20Firebird/Banditwheels2_zpsaba542fc.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/Banditwheels_zps475a089e-1.jpeg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/josue309/media/1968%20Firebird/Banditwheels_zps475a089e.jpeg.html)

I love the way they pay homage to the originals, but in a new school way! I think some 18X8 up front, and 18X9 out back would be nice, although the wider out back the better, short of mini tubbing. I like the way this guy painted them too, said the gold they came in wasn't gold enough for him.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/Banditwheels3_zpsf2a2adf3-1.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/josue309/media/1968%20Firebird/Banditwheels3_zpsf2a2adf3.jpg.html)

I have my dad's old '69 Camaro in mind with the look of this car....the yellow paint, then gold wheels with a polished lip. Although, I'd like to have a photoshop done of the Firebird, to see what it'll look like. The only thing that scares me about these Bandits is, cleaning in every one of those holes...EFF!! haha

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/104_4145-1.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/josue309/media/Random/104_4145.jpg.html)

[Josue]

Make the car more drivable, go with suspension & brakes. Do yourself a favor, call Mark at S, C & C. He can be hard to get ahold of,, because he is busy and when you get him on the phone, he can talk forever, mostly because he knows what he is talking about. I'm not kidding, eat lunch, use the restroom, give him a call and have a full hour to kill, take notes and tell him what your goals are and what your budget will allow, he will not steer you wrong, you can thank me later. Good luck, Ray
PS, then your gonna want more power,,,,,,

I definitely wanted to consult with some more knowledgeable people in this industry! There are a few shops not to far from me.

I don't want to just throw parts at this car, hoping for the best. I'd rather have someone experienced in pro-touring make sure I'm making all the right moves for what my goal is, and what my budget allows! Maybe even work up a price for install too!

I did body work for 10+ years, so I know my way around cars...but christ if I haven't gotten lazy since switching careers to Air Traffic Control. hahaha Well, a wife, house, and 2 kids haven't helped....but I'd much rather drop off the car at a shop, and hand them a check when the car is done. I'll have no problem doing the work myself if it saves me a ridiculous amount of money though.

I just have fears of spending all this money on a suspension kit, only to have my wheels not fit because the car is too low or something. The wheels themselves, I have NO idea how to do backspacing this, or off set that....so I'd probably order the wrong wheels all together for my setup.

[AZ's68]

Hey man. I have a '68 Camaro, and I just tore it down all the way. During the Thanksgiving holidays, I purchased the level 2 ridetech kit, I got 4 wheel disc brake kit, booster master cylinder kit, wiring harness, new brake lines and all new steering parts. So far I have spend $6k. So I believe that with $10K you can do an engine also no problem. Smart shopping and a little research goes a long way! So far I have sold $1,000 worth of old parts off of the car that I had no use for, so really I've spent $5K. Plus I'm shooting for 0$ labor! All myself and family assistance. I still need body mounts and a few other things that'll prob run to another$1000 but should be ok. You got this buddy! $10K budget is plenty unless you want a high end build or farming out the work

[Josue]

Love hearing real world numbers like that, thanks!!

What brake kit did you buy? I was wondering how those "stock" disc replacement kits in the parts catalogs would fare, maybe just get some decent pads for them. Those kits are pretty reasonably priced, and are very inclusive. They're not "big brakes", but still a hundred times better than drums! lol

And, what made you go with the ridetech level 2 kit? What's the difference over the level 1?

[AZ's68]

the level 2 kit has adjustable coilovers, the level 1 are not adjustable. And for brakes, there is a guy on here named Rod, and he's very respectable auto crosser. I pretty much used his brake setup. He races his car on these brakes so I would bet that they are great as everyday driver.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/106383-68-Camaro-RideTech-front-amp-rear-suspension-Looking-for-C5-options?p=1096537&highlight=#post1096537
I used his front kit, rear kit and booster combo

[Quikbrd]

106735106736

Here are the Year One 17X9 Cast Snowflake wheels on my 69 Firebird for reference

[Josue]

I saw you had snowflakes in your sig, and was wondering which ones. That looks incredible!! Thanks for sharing!


the level 2 kit has adjustable coilovers, the level 1 are not adjustable. And for brakes, there is a guy on here named Rod, and he's very respectable auto crosser. I pretty much used his brake setup. He races his car on these brakes so I would bet that they are great as everyday driver.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/106383-68-Camaro-RideTech-front-amp-rear-suspension-Looking-for-C5-options?p=1096537&highlight=#post1096537
I used his front kit, rear kit and booster combo

Nice! How much would you say you have in brakes then? Was it a pain to assemble all this? Meaning, did you have to wait around for certain parts to show up on craigslist or ebay? Or can you just go online right now and buy everything?

I was told to look into C6 brakes before, and I saw that Kore3 has kits all ready to go too...

[BMR Sales]

Do the suspension & brakes 1st while you have a running motor!

[Josue]

I would imagine that having a solid, well performing foundation like that, will make up for the lack of power in the motor! haha Should still be a fun car to drive for the time being!

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

It's way more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow. Update the suspension and brakes first. There are myriad ways to do that within your 10K budget. Some of them will make a BIG improvement and some not as big. Look through our Camaro Buyers Guide (http://www.cachassisworks.com/Attachments/Catalogs/BG_201.pdf) to see the bulk of the options. Then give me a call to explain them all. Extension 247. I'll be here until about noon CA time tomorrow.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/BG_201_277x360-1.jpg (http://www.cachassisworks.com/Attachments/Catalogs/BG_201.pdf)


Also, you could call and ask for Carl at Chris Alston Chassisworks he also knows his stuff. Chassisworks also has a great product line for the 1st gen F body. Bottom line is there are a ton of great suspension companies all of which sell great products. You just need to spend some time (read that as months) reading various suspension threads to get a good feel for what all is available.

Thanks for the referral, Steve!

[Josue]

Thanks! I really appreciate the help. I've reached out to a few pro-touring people/shops, but sadly I haven't gotten a reply from any of them? Guess they're not looking for any business...

I will mull through the catalog, and talk to you in the near future!

[Interceptor5588]

Unless you are going racing, or you're after the bling, an upgrade to used LS1 brakes will do just fine to get you around. C5 brakes mandate 18" wheels, so that choice may depend on the look you want.

For the suspension i would go with the $2200 SC&C kit with the SPC upper control arms.

Not expensive to build a basic Pontiac 400 for good torque and stock appearance, but if you want to go high-HP or exotic then LS swap with a complete used powertrain.

Add some Procar seats and new carpet and gauges and you're ready to cruise. Upgrade further as you go.

[Josue]

I'd like to say that I'll be attending the occasional track day, and that I want my suspension to be ready for those events, but honestly, that won't likely happen for years and years. I wouldn't want to take a chance on blowing up this tired old motor, since it'd take me quite some time to save up for a new drivetrain. I could spend more money now on more race ready upgrades, but the less I spend on stuff I don't really need, the more I can spend elsewhere on the car!

That SC&C kit has peaked my interest the most for sure. Great price for a front to back kit!

I had my eye on those billet 18" Year One honeycombs, but again, I'm trying to maximize my budget, so if I can get away with some cast 17's like quikbrd's, then that'd be cool too. $3,000+ for wheels and tires is a hard pill to swallow for someone who has never purchased aftermarket wheels for any of the 2 dozen+ cars he's owned in his lifetime. haha

That way, I wouldn't need as big of a brake setup to fill the wheel too. I've only been researching brake kits, but maybe I'll spend some time to see what all is involved with a LS1 swap, or maybe C5 fronts and LS rears...I saw that was a pretty popular setup. The one thread in the disc brake forum said the guy had under $1050 in that setup, and listed every part to buy.

[Freedom_road]

Good advice here, but your budget will go quicker than you think! An LS swap is out of the question for $10k most I've seen are more like $20k by the time it is actually drivable and will require more than basic knowledge and modifications to make it fit. Also, you would definitely require a new tranny mor, more, more$$$$
Work on the car as a set of systems that can be upgraded as you go along, but make sure you know what you want as a final goal so you are not doings things twice. Safety should be first with suspension, brakes, good seats and belts, if have enough get a new tranny that would work for the engine you dream of having when money is available. Wheels can be expensive if you look at the latest trends some are spending as much as $5,500- which totally blows your budget. Falken makes good tires at a reasonable price to upgrade. Got mine for about $85 per tire. Good luck, plan and keep asking lots of questions, have work done by competent people even if it costs more in the long run you will be grateful you did!

[Mkelcy]

$10k isn't a lot, but you could do a really nice job if you spent wisely and didn't look to replace perfectly functional parts.

I second the "call Marcus at SC&C" recommendation for suspension and brakes using the stock subframe and leaf spring rear. After you tell Marcus what you want, I'd just do what he recommends.

I'd also go to a modern fast ratio steering box, refresh the rest of the steering gear, do subframe connectors and solid subframe to body bushings and I'd adapt a set of C5 wheels (using billet bolt on adapters) and use them until your budget allowed something more to your taste. Three point seatbelts are a must.

I'd also seriously consider an overdrive transmission in the flavor (manual or automatic) you prefer and, depending on what's in there now, a rear gear change with an LSD (if you don't have one in there).

If there's budget left over, I'd look into other enhancements (better seats, gauges, more power, better headlights, interval wipers, etc.) before I spent a ton on wheels. Within reason, the tires don't care what they're mounted on, yet wheels can suck up a huge amount of budget.

[Josue]

True story about the wheels! I never actually looked into all these Forgeline wheels and whatnot, but when I did....I about **** a brick! $6,000 for a set of wheels? WHY?!

I thought my suspension, steering, brake, wheel, and seat belt plans would soak up all of my budget for sure, but upgrading the tranny and rear end would be a great bonus! I'd like a manual in the car, but if I could swap in a nice overdrive auto for cheap, then that might be the way to go for the next few years. Then I wouldn't have to spend all the extra money on auto to manual conversion parts.

That'll be more on my plate for sure though, seems like there are a lot of options out there. 700R4? 4L60E? 4L70E? Whole new can of worms there...