73-77 A-Body Help

[mikidymac]

So after seeing some cool pro-touring builds here (Bad Buzz) and getting excited about my car again I need some engine help. I have a 1973 Chevelle SS 350/350 that my dad bought brand new in 73', brought me home from the hospital in and was my first car. Then like so many other things I lost interest in it but could never bring myself to sell it so I have been storing it for over 15-20 years now. I have decided that for my 40th birthday I am going to finally bring her back so my dad, me and my son can have some fun in what my wife thinks is the ugliest car she has ever seen. Knowing she hates it makes me like it even more :).

I am being honest with myself and I want the look of a pro-touring car but it will never be drag raced or taken to the track. I am keeping true to the car and the interior will be all original, big wheels and tires, automatic with overdrive, big brakes, upgraded suspension and a small block. I want to have fun in it and take my son and dad out on weekends.

My only delemma at this point is what engine to put in it so I am turning to those that have one of these BIG A-Body's for opinions.

I am trying to be realistic with my needs and I don't have to have the fastest car in town and will not even be racing from stop light to stop light so I don't need 600 HP or a big block. It has been at least 15 years since I drove the car and I do remember the old tired 175 horse stock 350 being as slow as a dog so that is not going to cut it. I know I am going to have to change the rear end gears and the 200R4 trans has a lower first gear so that will help.

To all of those that know for my intended use what horsepower and torque numbers should I be shooting for? I want it to have enough power to be fun but don't want to break the bank. The difference between 350-400 HP and 400-450 HP is about $2,000 so that is transmission money in my mind.

Thanks and I look forward to your opinions.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

If you want to stay traditional instead of swapping an LS here's a different way to see it- this idea has worked really well for me. Build a torque motor. After using other cube small blocks, I have been using 400 small blocks since my first serious motor build in 1992. I have never built another cube motor since. My 3550 # (without me) G body wagon has a relatively mild 406 in it. Ported 400 smog heads, 8.5:1, Comp 266 cam. It makes maybe 300-325 hp but enough torque to be a whole lotta fun, likely 400-425 ft lbs. It was built on the cheap side, eutectic pistons, stock bottom end with good rod bolts, worked stock heads, roller tip stamped rockers, Proform air gap dual plane and Summit brand 600 cfm carb, cheap headers, single 3" exhaust etc. It was originally built for my 76 4x4 Suburban and was transplanted into my car about 5 years ago, coming up on 100,000 fail free miles.

On the street, hp isn't what gets you off the line or helps you do a smokey burnout with your son in the passenger seat, unless you're running a 4500 stall converter. A torque motor eases in and out of traffic, and works fantastic in an autocross situation should you get in one. My 406 with 2.41 rear gears and no overdrive TH350 gets about 20 mpg on the highway. A mild gear like 3.50 and an overdrive should produce similar results. Not that you would be, but to illustrate the 406's potential my wagon also tows fantastic, I've got over 5000 miles towing other cars with it. If you don't mind the extra weight and maybe a bit of a drop in mpg a 454 would be great too.

[mikidymac]

Thanks Ben.
The car came with the 350 and I have always built and had small blocks so that is what I am going with. The 400 is somewhat of an exotic and I have a long time friend at the local machine shop that said for him to build anything reasonable these days it is expensive so even though it is taking business away from him he said just go with a GM crate motor and go have fun. I know all about the torque on the street and he wanted me to go with the ZZ383 but it is expensive so I was looking at the new ZZ5 but wanted to know if the guys that have these mid A-Body's think that will be enough for what I am going to realistically use this car for.

This is an almost numbers matching car so I want to stay true to it and to not start cutting on it. I say almost because as a stupid high school kid I bought a used mild performance 350 and like an idiot sold the original block to a friend. Stupid kids!

[Later-A-body]

Excellent...another '73-'77 A-Body owner. It sounds like you are commited to keeping the small block in the car which will keep the cost's down compared to an LS swap. I would suggest going to a 383 though when you do rebuild or purchase a new engine. It really does help with power and especially torque. These are great cars to modify, and when done correctly can be made to into very good handeling cars. Global West Suspension has all the components needed for the chassis. I have all of thier products installed on my GA. One other great thing about these cars is they swallow massive tires front and rear with no modifications. I am installing 305/35/19 rears and 275/40/18 fronts with zero issues. If I can help you with any questions on the build let me know.

[mikidymac]

Thanks Later A Body. I looked at your build and glad to see you are in So Cal if I need some help. I am about an hour north of Santa Barbara but go to Orange County quite a bit to visit friends and family. At this point I think I have everything nailed down except for the engine choice and final color.

[mikidymac]

Here is a picture of the beast with my dad and son taken a few months ago.
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[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Sounds a lot like my story. I have a 77 Monte Carlo that my grandfather bought new, my dad drove for awhile, and it mine to restore. It's on my list someday, but I'm not sure of my total plan. It will be extensive though, there's a lot of ugly to scrub off of these cars.

I'm going for the opposite direction enginewise though. Because of the looks, it needs to be one bad mofo, so I'm thinking a 5.3 with twin turbos pumping out at least 1000 hp is needed.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

As crazy as it is Campbell that's doable and would be killer to see. I bought a 77 Monte from an old boss back in high school. It had a running 350 and a good set of rally wheels. He was going to just junk it so I paid him $60 for it! I pur maybe 100 miles on it before I took off the parts I wanted. What a boat but it was fun to drive!

Mik- Looks like a pretty good starting point! I agree, if you can swing the bigger 383 you won't regret it. Good luck!

[mikidymac]

Thank s Ben, Actually it is in great shape and I always knew it was going to be restored so the interior is safe in my shed, the dash and console are in a cool dry closet. The only rust is in the quarter panels and a little on the back window, it has been in California all it's life and never in an accident. I think at this point even though not many have responded I am trying to decide between a junkyard buildup LS 6.0 or a good old Gen 1 383. The price would be about the same but absolutely nothing would have to change to drop in the 383 and it would be a full new rebuild and about 450/450 HP/Tq. The 6.0 would be a used bottom end with ? miles but new heads, cam etc. The only problem is it is not exactly drop in with accessories and might be more expensive but fuel injection would be nice and the target is again 450/450 HP/Tq. I think those numbers should make this pig fun.

Like I have always said I am honest with myself and this car so it is not ever going to be at the track but I want it to be fun for my family to go out in. If the budget were unlimited I would go big but we are also building a 51' Ford F-1 for my wife so my budget has to be reasonable. Paint and body, upgraded suspension, larger brakes with disc all the way round, overdrive trans, new gears with posi, freshen up the interior with new carpet and recover rear seat, new wheels and tires and the new small block then have some fun. I want it to be different from all the camaros and mustangs at the shows and pretty sure I will be the only one with a 73' SS. I do not want the Laguna nose because I like the SS better but I am going to have to get the bumpers narrowed and up nice an close and probably body color so they don't look like they are boat anchors. I am also leaning away from the cowl induction hood that everybody does and am thinking of using the steel bumps and vents from either a 67' or 69' chevelle hood.

The best part of the whole thing is my wife hates the car and thinks it is the ugliest thing she has ever seen so it makes me like it even more. LOL.

[mikidymac]

I just found a few more pictures from when we were taking it out of storage...
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Got to love the trailer hitch.
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Makes me want to get it running and drive it as is. Funny the things you remember.... As soon as I opened the door the smell is just like I remember not bad or anything like that just this car has always had a smell that I remembered, probably the vinyl interior. I also remember the wine that the turbo 350 always had. Good Times!

[Bonehead]

The 73-77 a bodies were by far the ugliest, lower horsepower piles of unloved junk ever made by Chevrolet. Might be why I'm growing more and more appreciative of them these days. Though I don't know that I'd ever build one, they do catch my eye when I see them out and about.

Looking forward to watching your progress!

BTW, keep the trailer hitch. It's a nice touch. :)

[mikidymac]

I couldn't agree more Bonehead. They are big, ugly and under powered. If this one hadn't been in the family so long it would have been gone but I owe it to her to bring her back. Ugly or not she will always be part of the family so I might as well show her some love, some respect too since she is older than me.

[nekkidhillbilly]

why not use a 4.8 or 5.3 there capable of 350-400 hp with some work and you get the od trans behind it. plus the cost is not that high. plus your going to get excellent mpg.

[mikidymac]

I looked at the 4.8 and 5.3's but for this car I think they are going to be a little under powered and I don't want to turbo it. This is a 4,000 lb car so I think the smallest I would go would be a 383 Gen 1 or a 6.0 LS. If this was going to be a daily driver I would go 5.3 for the mpg but for the few times a month it is out I am not too worried of the mileage.

[driveit]

Glad to see another G3 car. I am a little partial to the Chevelles myself as my daily is a 74 Chevelle. I can tell you this. I just went from a stock 350 To the setup below. 350 HP and I am not sure of the torque. It has a 273 rear gear. The tranny is a Jegs 450HP street/strip unit with a custom ProTorque stall converter. I am not sure what the torque is on the engine or what the stall is, but it is like driving a totally different car. I think that you would be happy with something like this in your car as well. It gets in the mid teens around town and not sure on the highway. I love it. Its peppy. It sounds good and has a little bit of lope to it. I love it. It snaps to 60 before you know it. If you have any questions let me know. Also if you have any questions specific to a 73-77 you might want to check out http://g3gm.com They will be able to answer pretty much any question you might have and are really good about helping out on parts as well. Good luck!

TRISTAR Performance
350/350 HP
4Bolt Main Block
OE Cast Crank
H/P Connecting Rods
High Tensile Rod Bolts
Hypereutectic Pistons
Moly Rings
Bored Aluminum Alloy Rod Bearings
Bored Aluminum Alloy Main Bearings
TRJ Metal Cam Bearings
Double Roller H/P Timing Set
Comp Cams - 268/280 Dur., .477/.480 Lift
H/P Hydraulic Lifters
High Volume OIl Pump
Dart Iron Eagle S/S Cylinder Heads
2.02 Stainless Swirl Polished Intake Valves
1.50 Stainles Swirl Polished Exhaust Valves
H/P Valve Springs
Long Slot Rockers
Herdened Pushrods
Edelbrock Perfermer RPM Intake
Edelbrock 600 CFM Carb
Accel 9200 Series Distributor
H/P Harmonic Balancer

Ignition Recomended Timing from builder was:
Base Timing 15 Deg. BTDC
Total Timing 38 Deg. BTDC

[mikidymac]

CRAP! Has it already been a year?

Looks like I forgot to mention that my lovely wife and son surprised me last year for Christmas with and new it the crate GM Connect and cruise LS3 6.2 430 HP engine and 4L65E trans combo. Guess I don't have to worry about engine selection any more. Still no work or progress on the car but I am quietly collecting parts.