Wilwood vs. Baer?

[CFster]

Opinions? Strictly for the street. Putting together a street rod. MII spindles. Going on some rally's out west - through Death Valley etc. Heat will be an issue.

Looking at 11" - 13" options.

1. Baer SS4+ 11" 4-piston
2. Baer Track4 13" 4-piston
3. Wilwood Dynopro 11" 4-piston
4. Wilwood Dynopro 6 12.18" 6-piston

The car has 16" rims on it. Not Even sure the 13" brakes will fit.

Baers are more expensive. Wilwoods have those .81" thick rotors, which always looked flimsy to me. What's better, an 11" thicker rotor, or a 12.19" narrower rotor? I've had a 12.19" Dynolite system on another car, and the rotors did warp...plus it's a pain to safety wire the hat on.

Thanks,
-CF

[GNon18s]

From my experience Wilwood are cheaper than a comparable Baer kit, but the Baer kits come more complete in terms of pre-assembly. I think both have proven to get the job done.

[gray86hach]

C5 might be a option also.

I am putting c6 z51 stuff on the camaro. I have $1000 in the whole kit.

Tim

[tflyboy77]

I just put a Pro-TouringF-body.com autocross kit on my firebird that I'm extatic about. It's a custom kit with Wilwood super lite four piston callipers, aluminum hubs and some new 12.19x1.25 pillar vane rotors. I don't know how much will mate up to your car but the combo was cheap (in comparison) and performs amazing.

[Pete68]

13 will prob not fit on 16's. Do the C5 option:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/61780-C5-Disc-Brake-Swap-for-67-69-Camaro?highlight=

[thecirque]

I had a well known "suspension guru" (person most of us know) tell me that Wilwood kits were designed more for drag car application and a street driven car would develop all sorts of problems on a Wilwood kit.

He cited "shallow piston design, no dirt/dust seals, flimsy weak calipers" specifically. He said a daily driven vehicle would need total brake caliper rebuild every few months.

I had a Wilwood kit I was ready to pull the trigger on and he cast just enough doubt for me I don't know what to do now.... Of course he suggested a Baer kit. I'm guessing it was a sales pitch but I would like to hear some actual hands on experience.

[Gratefuldiver]

The front Baer Track 4 kit was the nicest after market part/kit I ever installed on my GTO. For the price I hope it would be. I think Wilwood customer service might be a little better though. Not that Ive had problems with either, it just seems Wilwood is a bit more personable and willing to answer any question you have. I have Wilwood D154 calipers on the rear

[Schwartz Performance]

Wilwood is a much larger company than Baer. They will not veer away from their current offerings or build anything custom. Baer on the other hand, is willing to do just about anything if it makes sense. Custom caliper colors are a big thing that us and our customers have enjoyed.

Both companies have great people, but Baer you're more likely to get on the phone right away compared to Wilwood. Kind of like comparing a corporation to a small business.

We're a dealer for both, and they've both sponsored us. Wilwood is generally less expensive, but that's because Baer calipers are beefier and stronger than comparable Wilwood calipers.
Wilwood's new Aerolite caliper is pretty nice though!

Let us know if we can help you out..

-Dale

[badazz81z28]

Wilwood lost me as a customer a couple years ago when I had a master cylinder go bad and start leaking. Guess what they told me? NO WARRANTY even though it was only a few weeks old. All of their items are sold "as is", unless its a manufacturing defect. I'm not sure what BAER offers in terms of standing by their products, but I will buy from them over Wilwood. I will never buy another Wilwood product again. I would go C5 (17" wheels is a must) for 13" brakes and if you want 14" I would look into the BAER 6P

[Aficionado]

thecirque--

That's not been my experience. (Full disclosure; I'm a writer, and ordered my brakes through the editorial process). I had Wilwood's 6p front/4p rear factory replacement calipers and rotors on my street driven '72 Corvette for over a year before we tore it down to do an LS swap. I never tracked the car, but I drove it regularly on the street, including a lots of curves (I live in the mountains) and the brakes always performed well and with no issues. We're doing a chassis swap on the car and changing the suspension, which means different brakes, but Wilwood will be my first choice when I start looking for new brakes.

[k7king]

Wilwood Custom built the Brake kit for my 67 Corvette. They completely spec'd it out with different components then there standard kit. I've been really happy with it. Wilwood and Bear both make great components if you work with there engineers to make sure you order what you need for what you are going to use it for.

[parsonsj]

I'm using Wilwood's new CSiC kit on my Z06 (with the new Aero calipers). They've been working with me to find a pad compound that is suitable for heavy track use, but still functions on the street. Great support, and a product set that Baer can't match.

[69L48Z27]

Big Wilwood brakes for me all around. I labored over this debate and chose Wilwood. For what I needed and wanted Wilwood has the best value. Bear was just too much more for me. I got a killer setup with 2 piece rotors all around, 6p /4p. 18" wheels with no clearance issues at all. Pad height was no issue, whole point of the narrow.

I did call them once about something with my MC, had nothing to do with the brakes. Hold time was short and they had no issue helping me.

No regrets here.

[Bad94]

Both are good companys. I run wilwood on my car. I'm very happy with the pads they have speed out for me.

I just put a Baer 6R kit on a C5 lastnight, calipers are very nice. And the new floating rotors are cool.

[DSL]

Guys - opinions on Wilwood's 2 piece rotor vs single piece rotor. The 2 piece rotors have a significant price increase. I would think the single piece rotors would be stronger and more expensive.

[Schwartz Performance]

2 piece rotors use a billet aluminum hat for much less weight. Also, when the rotor heats up from racing and what-not, the cast iron expands and contracts- a 1 piece rotor transfers the heat everywhere.. Meaning your wheel bearings will be affected. The 2-piece keeps the heat off your wheel bearings.
In the Wilwood sense, the 1 piece still does a decent job at keeping that heat away since it is not a part of the wheel bearing (aluminum hub), but it'll still bring the heat closer to the bearings than the 2 piece would.

[DSL]

Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[kevmurray]

The 2-piece keeps the heat off your wheel bearings.

How is this accomplished? Is there thermal insulation between the hat and rotor? I'm not trying to be an arse :smoke:, I'm shopping for brakes and debating one vs two piece rotors. There is a significant difference in price and I'm wondering if it's mostly a "lookit me" thing.

[Schwartz Performance]

How is this accomplished? Is there thermal insulation between the hat and rotor? I'm not trying to be an arse :smoke:, I'm shopping for brakes and debating one vs two piece rotors. There is a significant difference in price and I'm wondering if it's mostly a "lookit me" thing.

Think about a stock rotor. It's a solid 1 piece, heavy rotor. Cast iron in itself doesn't really cost that much.. that's why a 2002 Cavalier rotor at O'reillys costs $15.
Anywho- in [mostly racing] applications, the one piece rotors transfer a lot of heat because they're one solid piece. Any time you have a break in the material type, the heat won't transfer "normally". On a 2-piece Wilwood setup, the cast iron is held to the aluminum by 8 or 12 bolts. The bolts don't transfer much heat to the aluminum, and there isn't much of a contact patch from the aluminum to the iron. Also, aluminum dissipates heat well and won't transfer that heat to the aluminum Wilwood hub.

In the case of a Wilwood 1-piece rotor, they don't quite act like the stock 1-piece, because there's a separate aluminum hub that houses the wheel bearings.
I'd say it comes down to more of a weight thing. The rotors look mostly the same, and only you will care if it's a 1 or 2 piece.
If you're planning on being competitive in Autocross, then get the 2-piece.

If you're looking at rear brake kits, keep in mind that some of the 2-piece aluminum hatted rotors do not have an internal parking brake.

I'm sure someone else with a more specific degree like physics can explain this more, but that's my take on it!

-Dale

[Schwartz Performance]

Here's an Australian explanation ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMOCEfH7-zw

[Buryingthesun]

I had a well known "suspension guru" (person most of us know) tell me that Wilwood kits were designed more for drag car application and a street driven car would develop all sorts of problems on a Wilwood kit.

He cited "shallow piston design, no dirt/dust seals, flimsy weak calipers" specifically. He said a daily driven vehicle would need total brake caliper rebuild every few months.

I had a Wilwood kit I was ready to pull the trigger on and he cast just enough doubt for me I don't know what to do now.... Of course he suggested a Baer kit. I'm guessing it was a sales pitch but I would like to hear some actual hands on experience.

From my experience with Wilwood, some kits are better then others. AERO6 and Forged Superlights are the good "racing brake" and the Dynapro and Dynalite calipers are a "street/drag" type of caliper.

Stay away from the Dynapro/Dynalites they are junk imo

[kevmurray]

...The bolts don't transfer much heat to the aluminum, and there isn't much of a contact patch from the aluminum to the iron.

-Dale
Thanks Dale, this in particular makes good sense. When you see them side by side in the video you can see it.

I would expect an aluminum hat and hub would wick any heat passed to them right into the bearing though. You would want a good wheel to wick it away and dissipate it into the atmosphere. This is where steel wheels fall short I bet. I would bet a good alloy wheel improves braking (long term) more than the rotor design. What do they do in NASCAR to dissipate the heat?

[parsonsj]

What do they do in NASCAR to dissipate the heat?Brakes aren't that heavily used in many circuits; at most super speedways (Daytona, Talledega, etc.) brakes are only used for evasive maneuvers and coming into the pits.

What you really want to know is what do they do in in sports car racing:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/Ducting3-1.jpg