1970 Trans Am Project

[jtwoods4]

Well after 2 years of looking I finally found a nice 1970 4 speed Trans Am. She had 80% of the original parts. The owner purchased the car in 1985 from his brother in law. He then purchased tons of OEM Pontiac Parts from the Pontiac dealer down the street. He purchased an extra set of decals, hoses, clamps, brackets, etc. before the dealer finally quit selling the parts. In 2000 he media blasted the car and painted it. He was able to put back on NOS Decals because he bought an original set back in 1987. Talk about planning ahead. Anyway, everything is numbers matching down to the rear end housing.

I am removing the original engine and trans in order to preserve them. The "pro touring" build has begun. The new TKO 600 arrived last week along with performance suspension parts and the freshly rebuilt 12 bolt rear end. I have spent the last 2 months cleaning the undercoating from the under side of the car and then repainting the original red oxide primer. Rear end went back in this weekend. About 8 months out on the completion but here are the pictures so far.

Feel free to ask questions about the build.

Performance Suspension, braces, bushings, shocks etc. were ordered from Dave over Pro Touring F Body.

American Power Train supplied the TKO 600 Kit.

Designing the Wildwood brake system now, decided on the D154 floating rears with 12.19 rotors, still up in the air on the front brakes. Year One 17x9 Rally II's for the wheels.

Nitto 555 285/40 out back and 255/45 up front.

As for the engine I am saving the original and building a High Revving (for a Pontiac) Road Race setup
from a 1970 400 Block. 550 ft. lbs./550hp.

Original Owner already did the paint and body work. Original Interior is in great shape.

Before Pics


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Undercarriage, Rear End, Leaf Spring Restoration Pics


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[Ron Sutton]

Very cool.

[NOT A TA]

Nice car to start with! You're gonna hear it from the purists, ahahaha. I got so much flak about "wrecking" a 70 TA (and it wasn't even a real one) I got NOT A TA on my license plate and have used it for my screen name on forums since they started.

With your intention to run on big tracks I'll suggest you consider safety items along with the performance mods. While the things I've done to my car might seem "over the top" if you're not actually racing door to door the car doesn't know you're "just" in HPDE or TT if you roll it, stuff it in a wall at 125-150 MPH, or crash & burn. Safety project thread here https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?48151-The-14-Car-safety-thread-Roll-Cage-Kirkey-seats-Fire-systems&highlight=

I'm looking forward to following your build! If I can be of any help send me a PM

[jtwoods4]

Hey NOT A TA,

I made sure the build allows all the original parts to be re-installed in the 20 years :). To keep the purists happy.

I am currently researching the difference between the 1970 Disc Brake Spindle and the change Pontiac made in the 1979 - 81 cars. I know the later model used a larger bearing so I want to swap my original spindles for the larger bearing spindle. Do you know if that is the only difference? Are the spindles identical other than bearing size?

-JW

[72blackbird]

Nice work on the underside- gotta love how those leaky valve covers preserved your floor pans.

I see no problem with updating the suspension and drivetrain on a rare T/A, as long the powerplant stays pure Pontiac.

[NOT A TA]

Hey NOT A TA,

I made sure the build allows all the original parts to be re-installed in the 20 years :). To keep the purists happy.

-JW

They'll still be upset, ahahaha.

I believe they are the same other than the bearing size but someone else may know for sure. The 78+ B body spindle is very similar also and I just learned from Leigh that the B body spindle has different brake mounts that would allow the 1 LE brake mounting.

[Skip Fix]

Spindles are pretty close to the same other than the outer bearing that changed about '78. Some say 79 but my 78 shop manual says 78 changed over 77. Next time my 78 get's them pulled I'm going to check.

There is a conversion bearing A34 I believe but I don't rmember which way it goes early rotor on late spindle or opposite. Wilwood actually uses those so they used to have only one hub. Now they have a number of different front hubs with different changes in track width for different systems.

Rear end and under carriage look good. My 12 bolt girdle looked real close on the rear sway bar at full extension hitting the adjuster bolts so check that out. Probably never get that extended but on a drag car that lifts I swapped in the PTFB rear bar as hte side legs are longer to kick it out some.

[jtwoods4]

Update:

Here is the latest progress on the brake system. What a pain in the arse to install the D154 Brakes. They were the wrong offset for my car and the vendor would not take a return so I had to do some modifications to make it work.

I have talked to Wilwood several times over the last couple of weeks and they are consistently against a 4 piston non floating caliper on the rear of a c-clip trans am. so I went ahead and installed the D154.

Here is the video. The first part of the video explains the problem. The second half of the video shows the solution. By the way, thank you Not A T/A for your wheel and tire help!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IThNgI8AR1M&feature=youtu.be

[Nicks67GTO]

Nice! Engine specs?

Don't worry about the purists. **** em if they cant take a joke. I did the same to my 67' HO California GTO. Pulled the stock #s matching stuff, stuck it in the shed and now i'm going PT.

[Dantigan]

Looks like you did a ton of work on that underside. I am about to tackle mine. I am not so sure a scrapper and degreaser will do the job, what did you use on yours?

[manicmechanic]

Looks like you did a ton of work on that underside. I am about to tackle mine. I am not so sure a scrapper and degreaser will do the job, what did you use on yours?

I don't know about him, but I used oven cleaner. It provides heat when applied and softens everything up and allows you to scrape it off.

[jtwoods4]

Looks like you did a ton of work on that underside. I am about to tackle mine. I am not so sure a scrapper and degreaser will do the job, what did you use on yours?

Get some small flat bladed paint scrapers and "Gunk" brand heavy duty engine degreaser, the Gel spray can. For the red oxide paint use "Zero Rust" brand red oxide spray can. 4 cans should give a couple of nice coats.

Let the degreaser soak in all day or overnight. May require a couple of applications before the undercoating softens up enough to easily scrape off with the paint scrappers.

[jtwoods4]

More Updates:

Viking Shock Install and More D154 Details
Viking Shocks - 1970 Trans Am - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGJb4c5yt50)

Gas Tank Back from Radiator Shop
Gas Tank - 1970 Trans Am - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TQMzoTZVek)

[jtwoods4]

More Updates:

Rear End Suspension Complete. Gas Tank Installed.

Test fit some 17x9 Rally II's and 15 inch Rally II's at the end of the video just to see what the different wheels and tires looked like.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSQitQ39oI&feature=youtu.be

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[BEEBE]

Coming together nicely! Sooo sweet to start with a super solid foundation like you did !! Keep it up...

[jtwoods4]

sorry I haven't posted in a few days. took a little break while waiting on parts to come in. front disc brakes should arrive this Wednesday. install the subframe connectors last week here's a picture.

Subframe connector Video link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0NoBDDUo4

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[jtwoods4]

Well after several weeks of research and brake system design calculations I finally received my custom brake setup from Keith over at Custom Works Products. Great work Keith they look beautiful.

So here is the story. I want to run the Year One 17x9 inch Pontiac Rally II wheels on my 70 Trans Am. They are way less expensive than a custom made 18 inch Rally II ($200 vs. $600) and they just look great. I also wanted to run a Wilwood big brake setup to compliment the rear D154 Floating calipers and 12.19 inch rotors. I looked at the Wilwood Forged Narrow Superlite 6 piston kits and after taking several measurements of the inside of the year one wheel and looking at the diagrams on the wildwood site, it was determined that the FNSL 6 Piston setup would not fit in the 17x9 Year one wheel. I am only talking about a fraction of an inch causing clearance issues but the fact is that they will just not fit inside the wheel. Also, the Wilwood kit comes with a 12.88 inch diameter and .81 inch thick rotor without curved vanes. This is just not enough rotor for the demands of hard driving on road courses like Road Atlanta or Carolina Motorsports Park.

So after talking with several expert brake designers throughout the country, I finally decided on the Wilwood FSL4 Caliper, a Custom 13 inch diameter and 1.25 inch thick slotted, directional curved vain rotor, and modified 1979-81 Firebird Spindle with the larger outer bearing. The FSL4 is a lower profile caliper than the FNSL6 and successfully corrects the clearance issues on a Year One 17x9 Rally II. The clamping force on the 4 piston caliper is also actually more than the 6 piston wildwood calipers. I also selected the aluminum hats in order to dissipate the heat better. EBC Yellow Stuff pads were selected.

Here are the final results.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COMsPk3PIGQ&feature=youtu.be

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[jtwoods4]

Nice! Engine specs?


416 Cubic Inch (1970 400 Block bored with 6.8 Rods ) - Road Race Setup.
6500 RPM Pontiac.
Stock Crank - no need for forged crank when running a Pontiac crank
Edelbrock Aluminum D Port
Keith Black Forged Pistons
Scorpion 1.65 Rockers
246/248 Solid Roller Comp Cam
Canton Road Race Pan
Shooting for 525/550 HP/TQ or so at the crank
You get the idea

[jtwoods4]

Coming together nicely! Sooo sweet to start with a super solid foundation like you did !! Keep it up...

Thank you BEEBE

[Nicks67GTO]

416 cubic inch (1970 400 block bored with 6.8 rods ) - road race setup.
6500 rpm pontiac.
Stock crank - no need for forged crank when running a pontiac crank
edelbrock aluminum d port
keith black forged pistons
scorpion 1.65 rockers
246/248 solid roller comp cam
canton road race pan
shooting for 525/550 hp/tq or so at the crank
you get the idea

Sweet! Do you have a time frame on that build? Ive thought seriously about staying with a 400 and doing almost the same thing. I had Dave@ SD performance spec me a 400 build a year or so ago. It used his stump puller hydraulic roller and 290cfm KRE D ports and an RPM intake. He was claiming they usually end up in the 500-525hp range and 525-550 ft lbs of tq with a long flat curve.

[jtwoods4]

Sweet! Do you have a time frame on that build? Ive thought seriously about staying with a 400 and doing almost the same thing. I had Dave@ SD performance spec me a 400 build a year or so ago. It used his stump puller hydraulic roller and 290cfm KRE D ports and an RPM intake. He was claiming they usually end up in the 500-525hp range and 525-550 ft lbs of tq with a long flat curve.

the time frame on my build is about six to eight months. jim lehart at Central Virginia machine services is building the engine for me. he is a very popular pontiac builder and there is a little bit of a wait but he does a great job.last year he built a 461 stroker for my 69 GTO and it is insane.

I am sure SD performance would also build a very nice engine. I have those kre heads on my 461. we went with the 246/248 can and ported the heads to 330 CFM and used the Torker 2 intake.

[ks71z28]

sorry I haven't posted in a few days. took a little break while waiting on parts to come in. front disc brakes should arrive this Wednesday. install the subframe connectors last week here's a picture.

Subframe connector Video link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0NoBDDUo4

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John,

It was my pleasure to put the brake kit together for you. What you forgot to mention is the kit cost $400 plus less than Wilwood and uses better parts where it really counts!

Keith
www.customworksperformance.net

[jtwoods4]

Control Arms Sandblasted and painted. New Afco bushings and balljoint pressed in. Came out nice.

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And here is the new upper balljoint installed. I actually removed it and installed it though the top instead of through the bottom like in the picture. I wasn't sure about the torque on the bolts that hold the ball joint in and after doing a little research people are doing between 10 and 20 lbs so I torqued them down to 15 lbs. I hope that's ok :-?

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And the final Install

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[ks71z28]

John,

that is incorrect on the balljoint. it goes in the top, torque is more like 8#, Please swap those around asap

Keith
Custom Works



Control Arms Sandblasted and painted. New Afco bushings and balljoint pressed in. Came out nice.

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And here is the new upper balljoint installed. I actually removed it and installed it though the top instead of through the bottom like in the picture. I wasn't sure about the torque on the bolts that hold the ball joint in and after doing a little research people are doing between 10 and 20 lbs so I torqued them down to 15 lbs. I hope that's ok :-?

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And the final Install

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[jtwoods4]

Thanks Keith. Since I have already torqued the ball joints to 15 pounds I'm a little concerned about un torquing and retorquing them to 8 pounds.

By the way I will be calling you soon to order that manual brake dual master cylinder.....

[ks71z28]

Thanks Keith. Since I have already torqued the ball joints to 15 pounds I'm a little concerned about un torquing and retorquing them to 8 pounds.

By the way I will be calling you soon to order that manual brake dual master cylinder.....

I would then replace the bolts as you need to move them anyhow, they are so little anyway

[jtwoods4]

Front passenger disc brake installed :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHMQEBsJyHw&feature=youtu.be

[mattyvogt]

awesome build! its funny this week i have been looking for new front brakes for my 67 beaumont i really wanted to keep the 15x8 inch Rally II on the car but looks like the wheels wont clear the wilwood 12.19 inch rotors with the dynapro6 . so then i decided i might as well order some of the year one 17x9 inch Pontiac Rally II this winter, i figured then i can run the forged narrow superlite 6r front brakes. then i just started reading your thread and all my questions you already figured out ! do you mind me asking for a rough ballpark of what the FSL4 front brake kit cost you? also whats the chance a 15x7 Rally II fits over your rear 12.19 rotors ? awesome build cant wait to see the finish product

[jtwoods4]

awesome build! its funny this week i have been looking for new front brakes for my 67 beaumont i really wanted to keep the 15x8 inch Rally II on the car but looks like the wheels wont clear the wilwood 12.19 inch rotors with the dynapro6 . so then i decided i might as well order some of the year one 17x9 inch Pontiac Rally II this winter, i figured then i can run the forged narrow superlite 6r front brakes. then i just started reading your thread and all my questions you already figured out ! do you mind me asking for a rough ballpark of what the FSL4 front brake kit cost you? also whats the chance a 15x7 Rally II fits over your rear 12.19 rotors ? awesome build cant wait to see the finish product

Matt,

I took some pictures for you to show that the 15x8 Rally II will not work with a 12.19 Rotor and the D52 Caliper. These pictures show the test fit on the rear of the car. The wheel will go on but the caliper is just touching the wheel. If you had a 12 inch rotor and the caliper mounting brackets were shortened to match the .19 inch smaller rotor then it would work. However, if the balancing weights on the wheel were in the same area as the caliper then it would not work.

The custom front disc setup from Keith over at Custom Works was $2200 bucks. This is for the completed assembly that just bolts onto the car. Safety wire, spindle mods, custom bracket, etc. Price includes everything completed and ready to go. He also cleaned the spindles and painted them.

Here are your 15x8 and 12.19 rotor pictures. Wilwood says you need at least .080 clearance. With some sort of modification you would be able to make it work. 12 inch Custom Rotor and Custom Caliper mounting bracket.

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[mattyvogt]

thanks a bunch that just made my life so much easir!

[jtwoods4]

thanks a bunch that just made my life so much easir!

no problem call kieth over at custom works he is actually running afco brakes now and may recommend that setup he is very knowledgeable and has a quick turnaround time.

[jtwoods4]

FRONT END DONE!!!! SHE IS BACK ON THE GROUND!!!


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dR6KkuX-lE

[jtwoods4]

This weekend I pulled the original engine with 87,000 miles on it. Replacing with period correct 400 setup for road race performance and a tremec 5 speed.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPbeqH-n9tk

[Roger Poirier]

Me like this car and project. Keep up the good work! :)

[72BBSwinger]

FRONT END DONE!!!! SHE IS BACK ON THE GROUND!!!


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dR6KkuX-lE

Great build! Love the early T/A's. Also love those swaybar endlinks, infinite adjustments...

[jtwoods4]

Thanks for the kind words 72BBSwinger. Yeah the 70 TA is my dream car :)

Latest Update. Installed original gauges that were restored by auto instruments and converted to work with MSD distributor.

Also modified the frame the accepts solid bushings in the front. The bushing video has 3 different sections. Before the modification, during, and after.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0HVsh_QnHw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm2Xgjt5Ji4&feature=youtu.be

[Airflow]

This is the first thread I read, here on pro-touring, and wow what a start!
Love your build, it looks awsome. Those swaybar endlinks are way cool :)

RJ

[jtwoods4]

This is the first thread I read, here on pro-touring, and wow what a start!
Love your build, it looks awsome. Those swaybar endlinks are way cool :)

RJ

Thank you Airflow. The endlinks are from Pro Touring F-Body, they make a lot of cool aftermarket parts for Camaros and Firebirds. I have also been working with Keith over at Custom Works in California. He has helped me design the brake system. I decided on a Manual Brake setup so I would have more "feel" on track days. Here is the Dual Master cylinder we selected with 3/4 inch bores and 3/16 lines. That size will help lower the amount of pressure required by my leg on the Manual Brake setup.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zZh0s2ce0Q

[Airflow]

That's real cool! So you've got 3/16 lines for both front and rear brakes?



Thank you Airflow. The endlinks are from Pro Touring F-Body, they make a lot of cool aftermarket parts for Camaros and Firebirds. I have also been working with Keith over at Custom Works in California. He has helped me design the brake system. I decided on a Manual Brake setup so I would have more "feel" on track days. Here is the Dual Master cylinder we selected with 3/4 inch bores and 3/16 lines. That size will help lower the amount of pressure required by my leg on the Manual Brake setup.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zZh0s2ce0Q

[jtwoods4]

That's real cool! So you've got 3/16 lines for both front and rear brakes?


Yes that is correct. You can read endless debates online about fluid dynamics and the physics of fluid as applied to brake line sizes. People argue back and forth if the 3/16 th's line actually makes a difference instead of 1/4 inch line that normally runs to the rear.

almost all European race cars used a 3/16 line to the rear. The idea is that with the smaller diameter line there will be more compression and more braking power with a manual setup. people smarter than me recommended the smaller lines I don't really know the physics of it.

[GNon18s]

Cool car!

[jtwoods4]

Cool car!

Thank you!

[jtwoods4]

Made a custom brake push rod today to work with the new manual brakes and the CNC dual master cylinder. Please watch the video and make any comments if you see any design issues with the pushrod. I think it is going to hold up just fine but second opinions are always nice :)

The video is long, shows the design, install, and finished product. The design shows how I sleeved the hole in the brake pedal to make it a snug fit for the bolt that goes through the brake pedal and hiem joint..... anyway, enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdJIBXVHBSA&feature=youtu.be

[Chadman27]

I don't see any issues in regards to the shear area of the bolt which seams equal to or greater than the original post hanging off the pedal arms itself (materials being equivalent strength). However, because you are going closer to the actual pivot point of the pedal (height wise) you are reduce the linear length or throw of what you have on that push rod (cylinder). Assuming you are getting enough throw in that regard I would think you are good to go. I'd throw some grease or something on those threads too, in case they are wanting to bite on the ID of your sleeve (bushing), but I'm Type-A and that's probably not necessary, lol. Great video, I love checking you posts!

[jtwoods4]

Thanks Chadman27! I was also concerned about the threads on the bolt going through the pedal biting into the sleeve so I used another bolt that had a smooth shaft with the threads at the end of it :)

[jtwoods4]

Well I had to make an updated Pushrod. The first pushrod was made out of aluminum and that could possibly bend under the force of the brake pedal. Here is an updated video showing the new pushrod (and the new steel sleeve I made :) )

The new pushrod is all hardened steel. The CNC Master cylinder just has a tube that the pushrod slips into. Pushrod goes into the hole about 1.5 inches and bottoms out. Once the other end is connected to the brake pedal there is no way it can slip out. Check out the new video. New Bolt holding pushrod to pedal is 3/4 inch, that won't break :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZZJOo3DB9k&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

New Steering shaft dust boot and brake lines installed

DUST BOOT VIDEO


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTy_Kxp-CBs&feature=youtu.be


BRAKE LINE VIDEO


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4zPr-KZ518&feature=youtu.be

[epeterson]

Wow way cool car and build! I'll always have a soft spot for 70-73 T/A's. One of the best looking cars to come out of GM! Keep up the great work, i'll be following the build!

[jtwoods4]

Thank you EPeterson! I'm down to the final steps should be ready in a month or so. Engine builder called last week and said he has started assembly.

[jtwoods4]

Well I finished bleeding the master cylinders and connected the front brake lines today. Detailed video below. I also included a video of the K-Tool Brake Line Flaring tool. If you have ever used the old school brake flaring tools you know how much of a pain in the ass they are. Well this K-Tool flaring tool is absolutely amazing. Does a perfect flare every time, no trouble at all. Expensive at around 200 bucks but well worth it if you have to flare several fittings.



Brake Line Video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcAmpIoaMPk&feature=youtu.be

K-Tool Video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dshw6ZnYxLw&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

Guys I need a Front Passenger fender from a 1970-72 Trans Am. That is the only piece on my car that is not the original sheet metal. It has a later model fender. The fender works and fits fine but as most of you know the 70-72 didn't have the mounting holes for the engine compartment brace. Anyway, I would like to find one so I can have all the original sheet metal. These are hard to find. Can anyone point me in the right direct? Wrecking yards? Hoarders? Collectors?

[NOT A TA]

You might have better luck finding an early 2nd gen base model fender (even if the lower sections are rotted) and then swapping the upper section of the inner structure over to your current outer fender.

[jtwoods4]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind as a last resort but I'm not giving up yet ;)

[jtwoods4]

Guys there is a great new book that was just released. It covers the SCCA Trans Am racing series from 1966-1972. It is awesome. Even covers the engines and engineering aspects, the crews, drivers, the cars, its a great book. Buy it!

I was recently reading the section about the 1970 Jerry Titus Trans Am. Turns out the car has been restored to race day specs and exists in California at Canepa auto museum. Check out these detailed pictures, the car is amazing.... Once on the Canepa website scroll down below the pictures of the car to see the written summary about the cars history.

http://www.canepa.com/inventory/racecar_1/firebird_titus_8/


Here is the link for the book that goes into detail about all the 1966-1972 Trans Am Cars.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Cars-Trans-Am-Racing-1966-1972/dp/1613250517/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389927115&sr=8-1&keywords=1966-1972+cars+of+trans+am

[jtwoods4]

You might have better luck finding an early 2nd gen base model fender (even if the lower sections are rotted) and then swapping the upper section of the inner structure over to your current outer fender.

I found some original 1970 Trans Am Fenders .... I bought them both even though all I need is the passenger side. Older Pontiac gear head on the other side of town had them. The drivers side was perfect, the passenger side had 2 spots where rust had started coming through the original paint. I am sure it is repairable though. Regardless, these may be the last 2 around. They are extremely difficult to find. Next to impossible.

[jtwoods4]

Today I picked up my engine from the shop. It's a pretty nasty 400 (406). It's a 10:1 compression engine so it was made to run on pump gas but it was built to lean toward a road race application. The power band was moved up in the RPM range so it would have better corner exit without breaking loose the rear end. She's making around 500 to 525 horsepower and torque. The pins and rods are a little tougher so it can handle spinning up to around 6500 to 6800 rpm.

She has the Edelbrock aluminum d port heads that were ported to flow around 310 cfm. The torker II intake was port matched to the heads. Forged pistons and forged 6.8 rods. Solid roller and steel rockers. Carburetor is AED 950 HO. the distributor and headers are not in the video we just used what was on the engine stand. I have a set of the hooker super competition headers that I sent to thermal tech to have Coated. MSD billet distributor is still in the box. I'll post the complete build sheet later on.


Enjoy the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LSRx7WKHQ8

[jtwoods4]

New Engine went into the car today :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nODS3LKUQWE

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[Nicks67GTO]

BADASSERY! I love seeing real Pontiac power! You gotta post a vid when its all hooked up, exhaust hung and running. What are the cam specs on the engine build?

[Martin71RS]

Nice car, I like watching the vids! (I noticed the brake pedal rod bolt chafing the steering column wires, or it least looked like it did?) All the mods you show reminds me of my own build.....nothing ever fits as intended once you start altering stuff :hand:

[jtwoods4]

Ok guys I need some. I am trying to wire the new starter to the original harness. Please watch the video and chime in if you know what I need to do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1BAzTp_9A

[jtwoods4]

Guys, I just installed my TKO 600 from American power train. Please take a look at this video. Is the engine suppose to lean back this much? I know they do lean back a little but not sure if this transmission mount needs to be higher.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPpfdCPeG8Y&feature=youtu.be

[hessdawg]

Ok guys I need some. I am trying to wire the new starter to the original harness. Please watch the video and chime in if you know what I need to do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1BAzTp_9A

Purple is the gm color for the starter. The others should you the the bat post

[jtwoods4]

Thanks hessdawg

[jtwoods4]

Well today I measured the pinion angle and started running the fuel lines. Turns out the TKO-600 is around 3 degrees negative angle (towards the ground) which is normal, we want a negative angle at the transmission tail shaft. My pinion angle at the differential was -2.6 degrees towards the ground. This is with the pro touring f-body competition leaf springs. I have done extensive research on pinion angles and most people say you want a -3 degree angle at the transmission and a +3 degree angle at the pinion. Equal but opposite angles. This is the old school way to do it and this is how most passenger cars are setup.

After reading a book by Tony Huntimer called "How to Build and Modify GM Pro-Touring Street Machines" I deicide that a -3 degree angle at the trans and -2.6 degree angle at the rear pinion was optimal for a pro touring car that will be driven hard on road courses. Under the hard acceleration the pinion on a leaf spring car will climb, having a slight negative angle is the perfect setup for this :), that is, if the PTFB competition leaf springs allow some spring wrap and aren't to stiff.


Here is the book where I read about pinion angle. I took a screen shot of the page discussing pinion angle for a "pro-touring" setup

http://books.google.com/books?id=UmpTQdBWSk0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=How+to+Build+GM+Pro-Touring+Street+Machines&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UOASU5-PJISQkAfD4oCABw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

91207

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/12873462114_022164fe66_o-1.png

Anyway, here are the videos for the fuel line install.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLW6sDtJmSM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtqlEvlXV_I

[jtwoods4]

Fuel Line Complete


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQjmVmmRrQ&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

This weekend I finished installing most of the engine accessories. Still need to throw in the MSD box and distributor. I also ordered a new 3 inch Chromoly Driveshaft from the drive shaft shop, should be here in the next couple weeks. I decided to go with the Chromoly shaft because it allowed me to use a smaller 3 inch diameter instead of the 3.5 inch alluminum shaft. This frees up some space in the trans tunnel. I have had cars in the past with 3.5 inch driveshafts that would knock the trans tunnel on a hard bump with passengers in the car.

Haven't decided on a Radiator yet. I would like to use the original style shroud with the mechanical fan and clutch. Any aluminum radiator recommendations that fit well in the stock shroud?

Anyway, Enjoy the video




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHSriKFOLUc&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

Now on to the distributor...

The MSD Pro Billet distributor comes with several different colored bushings. The default bushing installed is blue and stops total advance at 21 degrees. It also has a black bushing that can be installed that limits the advance to 18 degrees, a silver bushing for 25 or a red bushing for 28. Uggggg, which one should I use????

There are also different Springs I can install that control how quick the total timing comes in. At what RPM should the total timing come in? The default Springs bring in total timing at 5500 rpm but that seems way too high for a Pontiac. The kit includes Springs to change it from anywhere between 2000 to 5000.

[jtwoods4]

Well guys here it is. The first engine fire up after a year of hard work :-P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYms0fFNnp8&feature=youtu.be

[Martin71RS]

congrats, sounds great! starting a new motor is one of the best parts of a build :-)

[jtwoods4]

Yeah definitely. Most exciting day of this year :)

[opnwide]

Now on to the distributor...

The MSD Pro Billet distributor comes with several different colored bushings. The default bushing installed is blue and stops total advance at 21 degrees. It also has a black bushing that can be installed that limits the advance to 18 degrees, a silver bushing for 25 or a red bushing for 28. Uggggg, which one should I use????

There are also different Springs I can install that control how quick the total timing comes in. At what RPM should the total timing come in? The default Springs bring in total timing at 5500 rpm but that seems way too high for a Pontiac. The kit includes Springs to change it from anywhere between 2000 to 5000.

I would go with the default bushing. That way you can run 15 degree init timing and have 36 degrees total. Engine could prob take more, but if you're running it long and hard (road race) better to be safe than sorry.

As for the brake lines, going from 1/4" to 3/16 should not make any dif in pedal feel. The master pushes the same volume of fluid regardless of brake line ID. The smaller ID would be more resistant to sponginess however if you're fluid wasn't 100% fresh. I guess you can make the opposite argument for resistance to boiling, but the brake fluid doesn't circulate very well. I run the motul 600 in my viper. There are more expensive fluids, but for the money it works really well. Change it every time to change your motor oil if you're tracking hard. I don't see a down side to the 3/16" lines.

Nice build! I like your brake setup. Maybe one day I'll try those hats/rotors, but I'll use Brembo brakes off the gen 1/2 viper instead. The 13" rotor fits inside factory 17" wheels so it should work.

[jtwoods4]

Thank you Greg! I will be sure to use some of the high temp brake fluid like you do in your viper. Speaking of that....

Brake line on drivers side is very close to header so I wrapped it with a 500 degree heat resistant wrap. Not sure if this is going to work so I will have to keep an eye on it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhJzujfNk0&feature=youtu.be

[INTMD8]

Beautiful car, one of my favorites. Nice work so far, the undercarriage brought back some memories, removing all of that undercoating is quite a job! Love the wheels too.

[jtwoods4]

Well I worked out the drivers side brake line issue. Bent the line down about an inch and got about a 1/2 inch clearance from header. Then I double wrapped the line in 500 degree constant heat resistant wrap. The double wrap should really do the job. Today I finished the alignment and the Pro Touring F-Body Pro G-Brace install. They are tricky to install with 3.75 inch tall valve covers but I called Dave over at PTFB and he gave me some great suggestions that worked. Here is the video for today.

In the video I mention camber settings and I meant to say -.5 on drivers side.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye2cQolj0d0&feature=youtu.be

[kamaro]

Ok guys I need some. I am trying to wire the new starter to the original harness. Please watch the video and chime in if you know what I need to do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1BAzTp_9A

The red one goes to the battery terminal on the starter, the purple one goes to the solenoid terminal (the smaller terminal on the starter), and just discard the yellow one, its just used for the old contact type ignition and its not used with the newer types of ignition systems (MSDs and the likes).

[jtwoods4]

The red one goes to the battery terminal on the starter, the purple one goes to the solenoid terminal (the smaller terminal on the starter), and just discard the yellow one, its just used for the old contact type ignition and its not used with the newer types of ignition systems (MSDs and the likes).

Thank you Kamaro. I was wondering about that loose wire.

[jtwoods4]

New Magnaflow exhaust installed. Kit 15899


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgHN2Mrxkwo&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

Well after 2 days of driving, totaling about 50 miles. I started "feeling" a grinding in my clutch pedal. So I pulled in the driveway and dropped the transmission. The input shaft bearing retainer, you know the piece the throwout bearing rides on, was sheared right off! Then I looked down through the clutch and saw the pilot bearing also fell out.... what the hell.

My only thought of what could cause the bearing retainer to shear off after 50 miles is that the clutch linkage geometry was wrong and the bearing was pressing incredibly hard against the bearing retainer sleeve. When I assembled it everything felt great.

I have the stock original 1970 GM Clutch fork, z-bar (bell crank),pushrod, and pedal.
I have the QuickTime bell housing
TKO 600 transmission

Check out the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOoaPHKIQZM&feature=youtu.be

[novajess1972]

Really digging this build. And thanks for the vids and the education on things I was wondering about....such as pinion angle. I am not comfortable enough with pinion angles, so I'm having to have my 4 link installed by a shop.

Great work so far!

[jtwoods4]

Really digging this build. And thanks for the vids and the education on things I was wondering about....such as pinion angle. I am not comfortable enough with pinion angles, so I'm having to have my 4 link installed by a shop.

Great work so far!

and make sure you align your bell housing if you're installing a TKO or you will bust something like I did in the video above. luckily I am close to american powertrain so I just drove over there and Lonni swapped out the busted bearing retainer.

[novajess1972]

Heck no! I leave some things to the pros. I am great with front and rear suspension and brakes, but I leave the big jobs to my shop. It would end up costing me double to undo my flubs....LOL.

And yes, I most certainly have a TKO in the future, as I have in my 72 Chevelle.

[Stovebolter]

Let there be guitar, let there be rock, and let there be fast cars! :firefire:

Love this project. Keep it going on brother!


David

[jtwoods4]

:) ha ha

[jtwoods4]

now I just discovered that my pilot bearing can slide in and out there is no interference fit it's almost like crank a hole is exactly the same size as the outside diameter of the pilot bearing. Hmmmm

[chichirone]

Great build man! We are finishing up a 73 TA pro-touring build as well. Love these cars. Keep up the great work...and the videos are awesome. Nice work! :cool:

[jtwoods4]

thank you I really appreciate it be sure to post a link to your build thread

[chichirone]

thank you I really appreciate it be sure to post a link to your build thread

Unfortunately I don't have a build thread. Here is a pic for you.
92863

[novajess1972]

Unfortunately I don't have a build thread. Here is a pic for you.
92863

Gorgeous!

[jtwoods4]

Ok guys I am back. It was a long 2 weeks. I took the transmission up to American Powertrain in Tennessee and they put a new front bearing retainer on the transmission. No damage was done to the tranny thank god.

I then proceeded to align the bell housing to within .003 inches of the crank centerline. By the way, don't ever try to remove Pontiac bellhousing dowel pins while the engine is in the car, what a freakin nightmare. Slide hammers don't fit under there and I had to drill them out very slowly by stepping up the drill size. Eventually they came out with vice grips. Don't try that at home. Worst experience I have every had with a muscle car. Anyway, after installing the Lakewood .007 offset dowels the bell is now .003 within crank centerline :)

As I was re-assembling everything I found the problem that cracked my trans front bearing retainer: bad clutch fork geometry.

According to GM, the clutch fork needs to be sticking out of the bell housing and slightly towards the front of the car when at rest. The exact amount is between 5 and 7 degrees, this is a very slight forward angle when the clutch pedal is at rest. Well, I looked at my fork and I noticed it was leaning back -5 to -7 degrees. This causes the arc of the clutch fork/throw-out bearing to swing to far and puts a side load on the front bearing retainer by pushing the throw-out bearing side ways as the fork arc increases when the clutch is fully depressed. Hence, cracking off the front bearing retainer of the tranny.

In order to correct the clutch fork geometry I adjusted the height of my McLeod Throw-out bearing (made it taller). This moves the throw-out bearing to clutch fork attachment back towards the transmission, therefor moving the clutch ROD end of the clutch fork slightly forward, about 5 to 7 degrees. Now the arch of the throw-out bearing on the bearing retainer sleeve swings in a more forward and backward movement instead of a forward to far and to the side movement. Problem solved. You could also solve this issue by using and adjustable fork pivot ball. But I chose the adjustable throwout bearing instead.

Anyway............ onto the ride height adjustment.

After a few miles of driving the front springs have settled in and the front of the car sites to low. Speed bumps are not even an option. PTFB Comp front and rear springs. For track use it may be ok, but unusable on the street, at least with my specific car.

So tonight I measure the wheel well lip to the ground on all four corners.

Front Driver: 25 3/4 in
Front Passenger: 26 1/4 in.

Rear Driver: 28 1/8 in.
Rear Passenger: 28 in.

After doing some basic math and knowing that aluminum coil spring spacers will raise the front twice the height of the actual spacer... I came up with the following

Install .625 spacer on bottom of Drivers Side Front spring to Raise the car from 25 3/4 to 27 inches
Install .375 Space on bottom of Passenger Side front spring to Raise the car from 26 1/4 to 27 inches.

Now the front is level and I have brought the ride height up to 27 inches in front and 28 inches in back.

What do you guys think? Can anyone post your front fender lip to ground measurements?

[jtwoods4]

Did another autocross event today


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv4RXikImYc&feature=youtu.be

[bugdewde]

Hi John,Nice talking to you at the autocross.... I have the stock '81 Turbo T/A. Sadly, you guys left before I could get back with you .... would like to get your input/advice on adding a tko to mine. My firewall is super-cluttered with all the stock stuff and was thinking I'd really have issues mounting a clutch setup.Your car looked awesome and gotta give you props for staying with the Poncho power. Looking forward to seeing more of your car.... I'm up near Knoxville, TN.Dwight

[jtwoods4]

Hi John,Nice talking to you at the autocross.... I have the stock '81 Turbo T/A. Sadly, you guys left before I could get back with you .... would like to get your input/advice on adding a tko to mine. My firewall is super-cluttered with all the stock stuff and was thinking I'd really have issues mounting a clutch setup.Your car looked awesome and gotta give you props for staying with the Poncho power. Looking forward to seeing more of your car.... I'm up near Knoxville, TN.Dwight

Hey there... it was awesome watching your car go around the course! I do have a TKO 600 in my car and the install is straight forward if you have a manual car to start with. If you have an automatic you can order a conversion kit. I already had a manual car and got my kit from American Power Train in Tennessee. It will be important to align your new bellhousing with your engine block. That will be the toughest part. The TKO has a .005 tolerance range between the Crank center line and the input shaft of the Tranny. The TKO is a very tight tolerance transmission. In order to align the bellhousing you will need a dial indicator, offset dowel pins, and you will need to also remove the stock pins from the block. This is a tough job with the engine in the car and it is not for the faint of heart. Engine out of car is no problem.

As far as your car goes the Auto trans cars are no different than the manuals. You will just need a new pedal assemble and clutch rod/zbar/flywheel/bell/fork etc. I think the auto cars even had the provision for the clutch linkage to go through the firewall. But you will need to check on that.

[Nicks67GTO]

I love hearing that Pontiac mill sing on the auto-X. Cool video!

[jtwoods4]

Thanks Nick :)..... Good lookin GTO.

[bugdewde]

Thanks for the input, John. I've had a few manual trans '79s but I liked the idea of an hydraulic clutch this time.... I forgot yours had the factory "z"-bar... for some reason I thought yours was hydraulic????

I really don't plan to autocross it much at all... I'm just inbetween rides now. The manual swap idea was mostly for cruising/mileage. My 4 hour ride home at 3000 rpm wasn't exactly kind. Gotta look at the water pump/plate clearance as it didn't like the long hauls at 3k rpm. It also got hot on the track... that's the longest autocross course I've been on.... it was FUN, but the 301 really got hot.

Sadly, I didn't get to see your runs, as I must have been either running or on the cool-down run around the complex trying to get cool air in the radiator since it wanted to climb over 220 after each run..... a couple runs got to 240.
Seeing your in-car video was awesome. It sounds GREAT!!!!!

[jtwoods4]

Took the 1970 TA out to Road Atlanta Today. On lap three I was on the back straight and was about to shift from 4th gear at 6000 RPM into 5th. Right before I was about to shift the RPMs stopped at 5500 and stayed there. The pedal was to the metal and the RPMs were not climbing, speed was 110 mph. That RPM and MPH held for about 5 to 7 seconds. At that point the Crank case pressure caused oil to come out the back of the oil pan seal and get on the headers. Saw a puff of smoke in the rear view and smelled burning oil. So at that point I decided to slow down and take her back to the trailer and head home. Not sure what was causing power to halt at 5500 rpm in 4th gear.

Anyway, here is the video. Hope you enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj_cWLKubas&feature=youtu.be

[STV-R33D]

You did really good work on that T/A. GREAT CAR!! I'm bringing a 1971 Formula back to life and if it turns out half as good as your car I'll be a happy boy. I have the same wheels sitting here in boxes, what size tires did you end up going with? I want to go with 275/40/17 all the way around if possible.

[jtwoods4]

Thank you very much. 275 will be a tough fit on front. I went with 285/40 on rear and 255/45 on front.

[VCT-TA]

How is the dual master cylinder working out for you? Do you drive the car on the street some and how do they work for that? Thanks sharing your build with us.

[jtwoods4]

It works awesome. I drive on the street all the time. manual brakes will feel and work just as good as power brakes if not better as long as you move the fulcrum point of the brake pedal up to the top hole. that in combination with the correct master cylinder bore size makes a manual brake setup feel great.

[jtwoods4]

After several weeks of research I have started installing my oil cooling system. This is really a must for Track day events running the car wide open for 20 minutes or so. Take a look and let me know what you think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Ux-tgdyt4&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

More oil cooling... Day 3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSInoiWr_A4&feature=youtu.be

[jtwoods4]

Oil Cooling system and power steering remote reservoir complete.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eTnjiDxDew&feature=youtu.be

[cdoggy81]

Nice car & excellent work :)

[jtwoods4]

Thank you cdoggy :)

[Nicks67GTO]

Have you had it back to the track to see any difference in temps for the oil? Is there any real difference just running around town?

[jtwoods4]

Took it to the track a few weeks ago. Oil temps fluctuated between 180 and 200. Around town stays around 180.

[Nicks67GTO]

Took the 1970 TA out to Road Atlanta Today. On lap three I was on the back straight and was about to shift from 4th gear at 6000 RPM into 5th. Right before I was about to shift the RPMs stopped at 5500 and stayed there. The pedal was to the metal and the RPMs were not climbing, speed was 110 mph. That RPM and MPH held for about 5 to 7 seconds. At that point the Crank case pressure caused oil to come out the back of the oil pan seal and get on the headers. Saw a puff of smoke in the rear view and smelled burning oil. So at that point I decided to slow down and take her back to the trailer and head home. Not sure what was causing power to halt at 5500 rpm in 4th gear.

Anyway, here is the video. Hope you enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj_cWLKubas&feature=youtu.be

Did you ever figure out the stalled RPM issue?

[Nicks67GTO]

Took it to the track a few weeks ago. Oil temps fluctuated between 180 and 200. Around town stays around 180.

What were they before the cooler install?

[jtwoods4]

RPM issue was a broken rocker arm. Oil temps before I installed the cooler were high enough to burn the oil. I did not have a temperature gauge prior to installing the oil cooler but after returning from the track I did an oil change and the oil was burnt and smelled burnt. so I went ahead and installed the cooler and there are no problems now.

[Nicks67GTO]

RPM issue was a broken rocker arm. Oil temps before I installed the cooler were high enough to burn the oil. I did not have a temperature gauge prior to installing the oil cooler but after returning from the track I did an oil change and the oil was burnt and smelled burnt. so I went ahead and installed the cooler and there are no problems now.

Cool. Good info to have. Thanks!

[jtwoods4]

glad I could help just private message me if you have any questions about designing and oil system I studied it for weeks and understand the details

[jtwoods4]

Road Atlanta this weekend :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUee45KVFfg&feature=youtu.be

[tazzz25906112]

Absolutely love it bud,,,, running the old girl and learning the track just Awesome... That HDPE1 deal is cool I did it down at VIR with the 73TA and had a gas....

[Nicks67GTO]

Looks like a lot of fun! Ill eventually be picking your brain on the oil system.

[jtwoods4]

Looks like a lot of fun! Ill eventually be picking your brain on the oil system.

Feel free to PM me about oil system. But watch the videos, they are very detailed :)

[jtwoods4]

After almost 2 years building and 3 months tweaking and adjusting its finally complete.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWyJB8ePz0&feature=youtu.be

[BBSkylark]

Beautiful car and built. This is just how I want my car to perform when I am all done.

I was wondering about your seats and seat belts. Are you running Corbeau GTS II seats? How do you like them on the track/street? Also what belts are those that have the shoulder harness?

I just love the outcome of this car!

Great work.

[jtwoods4]

Beautiful car and built. This is just how I want my car to perform when I am all done.

I was wondering about your seats and seat belts. Are you running Corbeau GTS II seats? How do you like them on the track/street? Also what belts are those that have the shoulder harness?

I just love the outcome of this car!

Great work.

Thank you BBSkyLark. Yes they are GTS belts arethe seat belts are from a company called Morris classic seat belts they are a direct bolt in and very easy to install. way more comfortable and easy to put on compared to the stock shoulder and stock lap belt.

[0065]

New Engine went into the car today :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nODS3LKUQWE

90218

90219

90220

Beautiful car!! Very nice car to start a project like this.

[jtwoods4]

Thank you guys. As I said it was an emotional roller coaster. I actually had the engine in and out 3 times and the video above was the first time I installed it. third time's a charm I guess