Project Grip - 69 Camaro

[Stovebolter]

My coworkers have been coming up with some rather embarrassing project names for my Camaro, so in the interest of keeping my sanity I came up with one today. Project Grip.


Going to paste and copy from my other thread to get this going.





To satisfy a few members i decided to start a build thread for my recent 69 Camaro purchase. This will be a garage built car. I'll be doing most of the work myself with the exception, obviously, of the machine work on the engine. All welding, fab work, body and paint will be done by me, so this is going to take a little time. Lols. Time is so precious for me.


I intentionally bought a base code car so as not to offend the purist crowd. Someone built it as a SS clone with a mild 454/400 turbo with a BU code 12 bolt. I promised my wife i woluld buy a car that was in one piece and driveable so it is in fair shape. Someone did replace both quarters and made a stab at replacing the floor pans but I feel I can do better with a full floor pan. And it will get fresh paint.


The plan is to build a fun street car with occasional track and/or AutoX time. I've purchased the complete True Turn suspension system with the triple adjustable remote resevior TQ air springs through Matts Classic Bowties. I'll most likely be going with a stroked LS with a Magnum ZR1 version 6speed. Also installing a full floater 9" from Moser as others have done but still waiting on the 18x9.5s and 18x12s from True Forged so I can get an accurate measurement for hub to hub length. Also bought the 14" ZO6 front and 13." ZO6 rear system from Tobin at Kore3.


So far all I've done is install the DSE mini tubs, added a carbon fiber Z28 front spoiler from Feather Carbon (which I really like the quality of), and installed and painted a urethane bumper last night.


All for now.


David

[Stovebolter]

I had just finished painting the urethane bumper and installing it. Paint was barely dry. Urethane bumpers are quite the ordeal getting them to fit. Lol.

David

[Stovebolter]

A few of the mini tub install. I went with DSE's and found the entire process was actually easy but i rather enjoy the fabricating end of things more than finishing up. Lol.

[Stovebolter]

And some pictures of the wheels from True Forged. The gold center was the first stab at bronze. The first picture is exactly what I was shooting for. It was Monaco Copper over silver. Gave it a bronze look. Brian at The Powder House stuck with it and got it right. Wheels are True Forged Competitions in 18x9.5s and 18x12s. 8024880249

[Stovebolter]

Soon they'll be in my garage. 80319

[AusMarty]

Wow.
That's some serious rear lip.

[Stovebolter]

The 18x12 rears were a 6" bs. I wanted the calipers and floating hub assembly inside the wheel since 335's will be tight anyway.

David

[Stovebolter]

8072080721Testing wheel fitment. Plenty of room to spare.

[AusMarty]

Moar!

[Stovebolter]

It's been a slow go but I finally have an entire, properly machined, clean finished set of wheels as of February 2014924479244892449924509245192452924539245492455. I have installed the True Turn system and made a quick test trip on the front wheels. Man I love this set up. Amazing difference in handling. I'm still working on the 9" floater. I have it mocked up on make shift stands so I can emulate the car at ride height. Working on making my lower links thanks to Ballistic Fabrication and Spohn Performance. I'll be updating now more often. Lol.

[glr0212]

David,

Excellent work. Love the wheels.

Any chance you can give out some details on your front setup?

Do you have a full ridetech setup? Arms, and spindle?

What is your ride height measured to the front fender lip?

Any idea what the alignment specs are?

Also, backspacing on.the front wheels? Tire size?

Can you turn the wheel full lock without the tire hitting the fender?

Any info you have would be helpful. Im struggling to make my tru turn work. I have a full setup with the vette brakes like yours.

[Stovebolter]

David,

Excellent work. Love the wheels.

Any chance you can give out some details on your front setup?

Do you have a full ridetech setup? Arms, and spindle?

What is your ride height measured to the front fender lip?

Any idea what the alignment specs are?

Also, backspacing on.the front wheels? Tire size?

Can you turn the wheel full lock without the tire hitting the fender?

Any info you have would be helpful. Im struggling to make my tru turn work. I have a full setup with the vette brakes like yours.

Thank you. Yes I have the complete True Turn system including a-arms and spindle with TQ series Air Coil-overs. With the front air coil-over set with a suggested 12.75" between eye to stud mount at ride height, my car is 24 1/4" from floor to body line in center if wheel opening. I haven't aligned it yet. I used the shims that were on the a-arms with the OEM set up which I'm sure is close to factory spec. The car handled well before the mods. I'm using an 18x9.5 wheel with a 5.75" bs with 275/35/18 BFG's. I'm glad I went with 9.5's. I don't think I would have been happy with 10's. Would've been too close with my car. Just saying. I'm running a bone stock F-body front frame. No mods except cutting out spring pockets for bag clearance. Stock body bushings. I can turn lock to lock with out rub but it is close. I took it for a test run and I did run it hard through the corners. No issues. I feel much of that is less suspension travel needed in this system when compared to my stock spongy system. I left the valving at factory shipped settings and I can feel the firmness in this suspension. Very impressed. I did quite a bit of modding on the inner fenders for clearance. I had to remove the top most and bottom rear inner fender bolts. The tires rubbed in these areas. Wish I could get some pictures of them but alas, I have the car set-up on make shift stands to emulate the car at ride height at this time. I don't want to change a thing until I have the entire toque arm/watts link suspension built and installed. I have everything just 'right' at this time. I believe the Pozzi's had some suggestions for alignment specs somewhere in the True Turn thread. Where is it rubbing? During suspension compression? Or at normal ride height while in motion?

David

[ivanster]

Looks good, nice progress

[Stovebolter]

Looks good, nice progress

Thank you.

[glr0212]

Thanks David, that helps tremendously.

We have a thread going on the other site with a bunch of pictures and info from ride tech.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=44918

i have what sounds like the exact same setup including kore3 brakes. only difference being tire size 265s and BS - I went with 6.25.

My car rubs on the frame and the fender when i turn.

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[glr0212]

My camber is at -0.44 currently. My rideheight is around 22.5'

Ridetech has ride height at 23 - 3/8" to the fender on a quick test fit up they did on the other thread.

I don't understand why my tire sits so close to the fender. Clearly I need to take the bolts out but why is the tire so close to the fender even with my extra 1/2" of BS??

What do you think?

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From ridetech's fit up

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[Rod]

Thank you. Yes I have the complete True Turn system including a-arms and spindle with TQ series Air Coil-overs. With the front air coil-over set with a suggested 12.75" between eye to stud mount at ride height, my car is 24 1/4" from floor to body line in center if wheel opening. I haven't aligned it yet. I used the shims that were on the a-arms with the OEM set up which I'm sure is close to factory spec. The car handled well before the mods. I'm using an 18x9.5 wheel with a 5.75" bs with 275/35/18 BFG's. I'm glad I went with 9.5's. I don't think I would have been happy with 10's. Would've been too close with my car. Just saying. I'm running a bone stock F-body front frame. No mods except cutting out spring pockets for bag clearance. Stock body bushings. I can turn lock to lock with out rub but it is close. I took it for a test run and I did run it hard through the corners. No issues. I feel much of that is less suspension travel needed in this system when compared to my stock spongy system. I left the valving at factory shipped settings and I can feel the firmness in this suspension. Very impressed. I did quite a bit of modding on the inner fenders for clearance. I had to remove the top most and bottom rear inner fender bolts. The tires rubbed in these areas. Wish I could get some pictures of them but alas, I have the car set-up on make shift stands to emulate the car at ride height at this time. I don't want to change a thing until I have the entire toque arm/watts link suspension built and installed. I have everything just 'right' at this time. I believe the Pozzi's had some suggestions for alignment specs somewhere in the True Turn thread. Where is it rubbing? During suspension compression? Or at normal ride height while in motion?

David

awesome David! sounds like its coming along great!

David Pozzi has great alignment tips for the tru-turn system he worked with a similar system for years and it ran many large tracks all over the US and many years of One lap races in the ONE LAP CAMARO, before that geometry was packaged in a sell-able kit for the public, I ran similar system for 3 years (I built myself from that early geometry) before Ridetech put it together in a easy kit that just bolts on, before that we were building our own center links and cutting and welding steering arms and adding bumpsteer heim kits from mustangs to get the same results

[glr0212]

Another question for you and Rod both. What spring rate are you running? What spring rate do you recommend Rod?

[Stovebolter]

If you are running a 9.5" wheel with a 6.25 bs I understand why you are touching the frame. I wish that was the scenario I had. I would just slightly notch the frame front and back. But the outer Im just not sure about. Unless its has has something to do with tire profile and the narrower tire being stretched over a 9.5" wheel. I'm seriously unsure. Its a shame you couldn't find someone close that has a 275/35/18 to temporarily put on the wheel to check fit. And you are using Tobin's hubs as well as the C6 calipers?

As far as spring rates.....mine is air springs (bagged).

David

[Stovebolter]

Thanks Rod. You inspired me with your $100 Camaro. Wish mine was that price. Lol.

David

[Rod]

Another question for you and Rod both. What spring rate are you running? What spring rate do you recommend Rod?

depends on the car? engine? swaybar? and what you like.... for a 69 camaro SBC I would recommend a 650 lb spring and the tall upper spring collar to keep the adjustment nut lower for easy access, even then the car may want 700lb springs like the 48 hour car instead of the 650lb but it will ride a little rougher

I have an 6.0 LS, with carbon hood, header, and cowl panel I run 800lb front spring because I autocross(really HARD), its to stiff for most who drive it, but the car likes it, I built my car (extra chassis bracing and custom lateral supports under the car) to run that heavy of a spring, the 800lb is to much for most cars even the 48 hour car so there running 700lb springs

[Rod]

Thanks Rod. You inspired me with your $100 Camaro. Wish mine was that price. Lol.

David

thanks!! its all fun! this sport, this industry...I'm lucky to have had great people around me to start and to now make a living doing it is even better!! keep building, I'm moving to Indiana this month so I'm sure I will pass through your neck of the woods this season more(I just drove thru AR last week going to Texas Goodguys and returning to Indiana), maybe I'll add a few hours to the drive and Ill stop by and check out the project next run thru!

[minendrews68]

Harrison Arkansas!!!!!!!!! Dang son, were neighbors... I'm in Jonesboro northeastern part of the state but that's close enough. Glad to see someone else from here. Man, I'd drive that car the way it is for a while. Looks good! And those rear boots! I thought those were miniature steam rollers .lol........

Carl

[Stovebolter]

thanks!! its all fun! this sport, this industry...I'm lucky to have had great people around me to start and to now make a living doing it is even better!! keep building, I'm moving to Indiana this month so I'm sure I will pass through your neck of the woods this season more(I just drove thru AR last week going to Texas Goodguys and returning to Indiana), maybe I'll add a few hours to the drive and Ill stop by and check out the project next run thru!

Sounds great Rod. Maybe I will get to attend next years event at Texas Motor Speedway. Sorry for the late response guys....I'm making like a sponge trying to absorb all I can with any Torque Arm related suspension threads. Lol.


Harrison Arkansas!!!!!!!!! Dang son, were neighbors... I'm in Jonesboro northeastern part of the state but that's close enough. Glad to see someone else from here. Man, I'd drive that car the way it is for a while. Looks good! And those rear boots! I thought those were miniature steam rollers .lol........

Carl

Well hello Carl. Oh, I do plan to drive it. I don't imagine it will see paint for a couple years. I'm a little burned out from the last two projects. Consumed last 4 years of my life. Lol. I promised myself and my wife I would make changes in phases, so to speak. That way I can enjoy the car and notice all of the changes. And I can say the change thus far is remarkable. My 50/50 turbo RX8 would have had trouble with this car IMO. This setup with the Camaro feels like it would do circles around the RX. I know exactly where Jonesboro is. Occasionally I get called out to work in Tuckerman. Always seems to be at the worse moment. Lol.

[glr0212]

Yep, I'm using Tobin's hubs. I thought they pushed the wheel out 1/4". I also figured if I went deep on the BS I could always use a spacer to take it back in.

[glr0212]

Is this your actual ride height or has it moved up since this picture was taken?

It looks like the tire would hit the bottom of the outer fender when you turn the wheel. (similar to mine in the above pics)

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[Stovebolter]

No. That was with the air springs completely deflated. At ride height all of the wheel is exposed and about 1/2" of tire at top. Sorry. I didn't notice that the pictures I posted was not at ride height.

[Stovebolter]

Thought I'd post a few pictures of the clearance I have with the 18X9.5 front wheels with the 5.75" bs. I am not completely finished with the inners. Just for the guys that are curious.

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[Rod]

Digging it!! :twothumbs

[Stovebolter]

A little more progress this weekend. Got the LCA's set in stone....or steel. Ha ha. Brake caliper mounts made and tacked in. Upper Airwave bar mocked up. And got started on the torque arm. I may go with 60" for ease of packaging. I will be able to mount directly to transmission mount this way. Thanks to Payton for the help!


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[Stovebolter]

I've been toying with the idea of keeping the big block. There goes my cars diet. Lol. It has a 454 now that needs freshened up. While I'm in it, it will get a 509" 4.5x4.00 stoker rotating assembly.

I also plan on swapping in a T56 Magnum with the .50 6th gear.

So it seems I may shop for decent stack injection system. I'm digging through a ton of documentation about these system. Wow. A lot to absorb. I found a local fellow with an old mechanical stack injection system. Checking into converting this to electronic injection.

[Stovebolter]

Time for a few updates. I've mocked up the side exit exit exhaust but already have plans to alter it.

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[Stovebolter]

Got the torque arm mocked up and lightened.

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[Stovebolter]

Somehow I found room for the sway bar. What a conglomeration of things. Lol.

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[Stovebolter]

And the Watts link mock up is finished.

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[Stovebolter]

Just waiting for the spot calipers Jason at The GMR has shipped. Soon it will be test drive time!

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[Stovebolter]

It's been a while. Just a few mild updates. Got the rear painted, put back together, and saftey wired. What started out as an attempt to pick a color for the bottom side of the car has turned into a mind changer for me. I may now paint the entire car bronze. This color really pops in the sun.

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[Stovebolter]

A few more....103025103026103027103028

[Stovebolter]

And the completed rear.....

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[Stovebolter]

We'll I got the car back in one piece and have been enjoying it all week. I aligned the front end with camber of -1.5, caster of +6.0, and toe in of 1/8". I can say I am very impressed with the over all package. And have plenty of room in the front wheel houses now that I've adjusted camber properly. These pictures are with it laid out. I'll get some better pictures this weekend. This car is amazing. But I believe I'll ditch the Hawk HP+ pads for some ceramic. Hate the dust! And it is really eating up the rotors. I'll save them for future track day. 104409

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[Stovebolter]

Man I've got to do something about this 7 MPG. Lol.

[Stovebolter]

This is at the ride height Ridetech suggests. Had a great day with the little ladies....and Aisha was my chaffuer all day. She did great and really enjoyed driving the car.

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