Lube or no lube, that is the question!

[Yelcamino]

Years and years ago I was told not to put any type of lube on the wheel studs. I was never given a reason why and considering I was only about 14 years old at the time, I didn't ask why. Now 30 years later I'm asking "Why?"

Considering that rod bolts are torqued with lube on their threads and I'm pretty sure they endure a lot more stress than wheel studs, then why was I told not to put any lube on wheel studs?

What say you?

[DarkoNova]

When I bought a stud conversion for my BMW to get rid of the stupid lugbolts, the kit came with some anti-seize to put on the threads. I put it on every lug and never had a problem with them. The stock bolts would actually loosen up on me every now and then, but I never had that problem with the new lugs. They actually seemed to thread on easier with the anti-sieze.

[MonzaRacer]

As a technician for over 20 years I have done many different things, mostly based on employer based requirements.
Now a few years ago I was working at a Firestone Mastercare. Well we got Modern Tire Dealer magazine and in that publication for the record one of the tire/wheel/whatever groups did proper investigation and found that "silver" nickle based anti-seize is fine and even recommended as it does not change torque values by any more than 5% but actually normalize the fastener torquing.
And if you ever look at any properly maintained semi or trailer you will see anti-seize on the wheel studs.
So silver nickle based anti-seize is ok and even recommended this will keep things from rusting, prevent things from binding or galling.
Good luck

[Yelcamino]

While I was swapping out my wheels yesterday, I took the time to coat each wheel stud with silver anti-seize. I ran each lug nut down and back to coat the threads evenly then wiped off the excess. I also lowered the torque a bit since I didn't have to overcome the friction of dry threads. I think I'll update my way of doing things.

[Van B]

We always use the silver anti seize on the race car, but the wheels are either removed or re torqued every session. I would torque them the same as I do dry since theroetically with the lube, they could back off more easily. As always when torquing wheels, recheck torque after driving as they might back off. With anti seize on a street car I might make a habit of checking again until you do not find any that have loosened.

[Twentyover]

Didn't vote, but all the smart guys running old English sportscars (perhaps an oxymoron here) w/ centerlock wheels use copaslip. Prevents corrosion on the threads and the Rudge spline. Living in MI I have lug nuts rust on me.

[Yelcamino]

We always use the silver anti seize on the race car, but the wheels are either removed or re torqued every session. I would torque them the same as I do dry since theroetically with the lube, they could back off more easily. As always when torquing wheels, recheck torque after driving as they might back off. With anti seize on a street car I might make a habit of checking again until you do not find any that have loosened.

Good point. I periodically check the torque on my lugs but will do so more often with the anti-seize.

Didn't vote, but all the smart guys running old English sportscars (perhaps an oxymoron here) w/ centerlock wheels use copaslip. Prevents corrosion on the threads and the Rudge spline. Living in MI I have lug nuts rust on me.

I'd never heard of Copaslip before but may invest in some. Here's a dealer for it if anyone is interested.

[6'9"Witha69]

Anti seize. Picked it up from a friend who is an ASE certified Maaster diesel tech. It helps keep my 4" long 1/2"x20 studs from rusting.

[JRouche]

Great thread topic!! Wheel fasteners (studs, bolts, or whatever is in place) take a tremendous amount of abuse. And they are meant to endure. They are designed to take repeated stretching with every wheel removal, have to be easy to use for ANY owner, threading the nut back on in the dark, rain, snow or desert by ANYONE driving the car, that means men, women, elderly and teenagers.

They take some abuse from the heavy handed impact driver at the local tire change-um shop. And they are not a consumable item. If you have a 40 year old car more than likely you have the original wheel fasteners. IMO they are some durable pieces.

Kinda a shame we dont give more thought to them. But yeah, I think some anti-seize is a good idea. So I think if you are ready to break out the torque wrench to torque the wheel nuts then its prolly a good idea to give a swipe of silver grease.

Speaking of torque? What do you, that use the wrench, like to use for final numbers? I go in three steps, goes quickly, not too much work. I hand tighten all the nuts (with the socket and extension) while bumping or shaking the tire, just to get all the conical seats evenly seated. Then I take it up to 35lbs for all, then 65lbs then a final 120lbs for all.

120lbs might sound like alot but its not. I have removed some nuts from the wheel shop that uses an impact regularly and it was in excess of 150lbs. But more importantly, it was not consistent for all the nuts. And thats one of the reasons for using a torque wrench is to get a uniform torque for all of the fasteners.

But thats whats crazy, and great about the fasteners. They will usually preform just fine under a wide amount of torquing conditions. If its the heavy hand at tires-R-us, or granny on the side of the snowy road with a star wrench. They always seem to hold.

The lowly wheel fasteners!! They need to get more credit, after all, they are the LAST fastener between YOU and the road. JR

Ooops, forgot to vote, will do so now...

[Twentyover]

........................
Speaking of torque? What do you, that use the wrench, like to use for final numbers? I go in three steps, goes quickly, not too much work. I hand tighten all the nuts (with the socket and extension) while bumping or shaking the tire, just to get all the conical seats evenly seated. Then I take it up to 35lbs for all, then 65lbs then a final 120lbs for all.

...

65 ft-lb on daily driver, 80 ft-lb for the race car and the Camaro (both use ARP lug studs) regardlesss of seat type

[kryptik]

65 ft-lb on daily driver, 80 ft-lb for the race car and the Camaro (both use ARP lug studs) regardlesss of seat type

Agreed, I do about 65-70ft-lbs for my 7/16 studs in the rear and about 80ft-lbs for my 1/2 studs up front.

[ponchopwr70]

I use silver never seize and torque to about 80. I've taken my wheels off so many times I got the feel for it. I personally would not torque my lugs to 120 but thats off topic.

[Yelcamino]

When I was going dry, I'd torque the 1/2 studs to 90 and the 7/16 studs to 80. Now with the anti-seize I go 80 and 70 respectively.

[parsonsj]

I use silver anti-sieze on every car I "maintain". That's now 5 cars, lol. I use the factory torque ratings and take 10 lb-ft. off, and use 85 for 1/2-20 race-car threads. I make sure to get some anti-sieze on the lug nut seats as well.

jp

[My427stang]

I dont antiseize every time, but if it starts looking dry, I hit it again.

I see no reason that a dry thread would be better than a lightly lubed one

[tommycomfort]

Herb,
I don't think I would suggest it to people who never check their lugs, but for guys like us who have their wheels on and off I don't think you can go wrong. I double check mine before every event as I am sure you do too. Glad to see this thread though, I always thought I was the oddball using anti-seize...
Tom

[Van B]

I use silver anti-sieze on every car I "maintain". That's now 5 cars, lol. I use the factory torque ratings and take 10 lb-ft. off, and use 85 for 1/2-20 race-car threads. I make sure to get some anti-sieze on the lug nut seats as well.

jp

John,

I am curious as to why you go lower than factory spec.

[parsonsj]

The better the thread lube, the more bolt stretch per measured torque. ARP has a good tech description of this phenomenon on their website.

Jp

[mc84_zz4]

When I lived In Colorado (12 yrs), I would swap wheels 2x year: summer, and winter.
I used wd40, since it was what I had available, but I think i'll look into getting a large tube of anti seize instead.
I have had my wheels on/off the car at least 4x this year already.

I found this one link from ARP, not sure if it what was being discussed earlier about yield/torque specs:
http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/techn...orque_us.shtml
But on it it states: "Always lubricate the fasteners prior to applying torque to ensure accurate readings."

[aronhk_md]

Why not also use the anti sieze on the conical OR flat seats of the wheel itself? Again, its a friction point that can inhibit proper torque.

Also, for those of you using it and regularly checking.....have you found they ever back off with use/time?

Is there any difference between "silver" anti sieze and any other kind? I've never looked to see what mine is.....