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Thread: 4l80 vs 4l65
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02-15-2011 #1
4l80 vs 4l65
Okay, I'm going to try this from a different direction. Given that I'm hoping to make around 500 (450 easily) at the flywheel and the trans is going in a 68 firebird behind an ls2 that was a stick and that transmissions are voodoo to me which way should I go? I need to know if one or both can handle it and which fits better. I've actually read the 80 fits with minimal massaging where the 60 series needs a bit of work but I've also read the opposite. Which is true? The 80 weighs more - how much more with the fluid and convertor in it is still open for debate. Is the power capability worth the parasitic loss at my level of hp? If you have one in your car I would really like to hear from you.
thanks
Scott____________________________________________
Scott
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02-16-2011 #2
The 80 is a larger trans then the 60. The 60 or 65 is basically a electronic version of the 700R4. The 80 needs just a little tunnel work like you said but the 60 should fit without any work. Both will need cross member work to fit.
DannyDanny
1969 Camaro and the start of my Pro touring project!
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02-16-2011 #3
I'v actually read by a person who has one that the 80 didn't require slicing the tunnel. I've also read the 65 can get a little sticky. Do you have either?
Any thoughts on the trade offs of power vs parasitic loss?____________________________________________
Scott
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02-16-2011 #4
65 mounted up very easily on my 69 Camaro, very little clearancing needed. 80 would require a lot of beating. I think if you do a search you can find a couple pics of the trans side by side. The tunnel just needs to get beat on in a few areas to make it fit for a 80.
Last edited by 1969CamaroRS; 02-17-2011 at 06:38 AM. Reason: typo
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02-17-2011 #5
So they both fit but the 65 is easier. Easier to come by too. Would I be walking a thin line as far power with the 65? I'm wondering if it would be cheaper to get the 80 then to have a 65 built or perhaps the 65 would take it.
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Scott
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02-17-2011 #6
A quick google search indicates a lot of guys start to have trouble at 400rwhp and kill it at 450rwhp. So 480 and 540 at the crank, give or take. In other words, you'll be at the limit.
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02-17-2011 #7
I think some vendors can build a 65 to handle the power. I am looking at 500-550 RW hp/tq and talked to Mark Bowler at Bowler transmissions about what he would recommend. Told him it would be mostly a street car but I did want to run slicks for occasional track use. He recommended his 65 rated at 550 ft/lbs. I was interested in engine braking and going with Paddle shifters so it wasn't the cheapest option. If on a budget I'd probably go the 80 route but 65 is an option depending on budget.
http://bowlertransmissions.com/products/Transmissions
Mark was very helpful and answered my many questions.
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02-17-2011 #8
We have installed 4L80E transmissions into 1st gen Camaros and Firebirds without cutting the tunnel. It is a little tight around the cooler lines, but nothing a rubber mallet can't fix. Just as Ed mentioned, a 4L65-E can be built to handle up to 550 Ft lbs of torque. But the problem is by the time you build a 4L65-E to honestly handle the power, you can be into a complete 4L80E package for the same money or less. Our entry level 4L80-E starts at 650 Ft lbs. So it is usually my recommendation at your point to go towards the 4L80-E. Unless you are looking for engine braking, then as for now, you would have to go with the 4L65-E. The 4L80-E package with engine braking is not available, yet I know everyone has been patiently waiting....
As far as being concerned that the 4L80-E is going to rob too much power. Yes a 4L80-E weights more, but, as far as what it may rob for power is well worth it. As long as you have a quality 4L80-E built with the correct planets, drums & converter you can get get rid of some of the extra weight. I have many customers that have swapped from a 4L60-E to a Bowler 4L80-E and have had the same or better times in racing applications.
I hope this helps.
Mark
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02-17-2011 #968 Camaro - never to be finished
06 Silverado - Forged 370, L92 Heads, big cam, 4l80e ect. eventual donor for the above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmB2y7uX38I
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02-17-2011 #10