Pontiac intake manifolds

[JLM]

I've spoken with Jim Butler a couple months back. He recomended the XE284H grind.

Here's the specs on that grind.

Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,300-6,500 RPM
Intake Duration 050 inch Lift: 240
Exhaust Duration 050 inch Lift: 246
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240 int./246 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 284
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 296
Advertised Duration: 284 int./296 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.507
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.507 int./0.510 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash (in): 0.000
Exhaust Valve Lash (in): 0.000
Computer Controlled: No
Grind Number: P XE284H-10

[wick]

I was wrong about that cam, I thought it was a single pattern. I hope you do know not to twist that 455 past about 5500. What intake did Butler suggest with your combo.

[JLM]

He didn't actually suggest one. At the time I was planning on running the Torker II manifold.

What's the issue with the RPM? I could drop down to the 274H which has an 1800-6000 operating range.

[wick]

I would stay with the one Butler suggested, those RPM numbers are mostly for the 400's. You can run a bigger cam in the 455 and get away with it.

The 455 has longer stroke coupled with 3.25 mains versus 3 inch mains with a 400. The rods are another issue. They are good but not great. I have seen a lot of low 12 second 455's that were shifted at 5200.

[JLM]

It's unfortunate I don't have receipts for the engine build. The previous owner did say the rotating assembly was forged as well as balanced. Regardless it would probably still be a good idea to keep it under 5500 I would imagine.

[Roadrage David]

i have a dyno tested stroker 400 . eagle kit to 461 4.25 stroke, with port matchst torker II / XE284 / holly 850 ho aed / mild ported edel heads 2.19/1.77 valves 300 cfm / engine puts out 550 horse max rpm 6000 .. if you dont have 300 cfm heads with the "big valves" il would stay with the XE274 . performer rpm is a great manifold torkerII hase in some cases the advantige and no clearens problems . the origenal torkerII flows beter from the factory then victor/rpm/torker II .the new Tomawhawk manifold hase no clearens problem as wel . and in polished form is the best looker of them all . forgive mij spelling ...
ps standerd rods woned last long past 5500 rpm . a 400 stroker is a stronger combo then a 455 .

[wick]

David, Did you dyno the Tomahawk intake? Did you use eagle rods or stock? What kind of toque numbers with you combo?

[Roadrage David]

David, Did you dyno the Tomahawk intake? Did you use eagle rods or stock? What kind of toque numbers with you combo?

.. Wick the eagle stroker kit was used as it comes from them les there bearings . srp pistons eagle 6.8 bbc rods stroker crank ecetera . other 3/4 quarter grove barings where used. i did not dyno tested the tomowhawk manifold as the engine was dynod in verginia, and im in europe lolol . the tomowhawk so far so proves to be a looker insted of a serius new contender meaning it looks great but those not out perform the TorkerII ore the performer rpm .. il go with the torkerII if i where you . torque nr from my engine where 577 lbs feet starting at 2800 rpm max at 4300 rpm .. engine douwnslobe came at 5800 ,but it was still making 500 horse at 6000rpm . a bigger carb would make it make more power and max rpm would be 6200 . not bad for a mild NA toutchst intermidiate injun engine . a simple change of cam carb and some more mild head porting would give this combo around 625 horse .

[wick]

Thanks for the info David. What E-Heads did you use, the 72cc or 87cc chambers. From what I have seen with the new Tomahawk it is a good intake but not the best. Who built your motor?

[Roadrage David]

Wick we used the edel heads 87 cc , but as my engine builder said dont belive anything before you chekt it as the heads where actualy 85cc !! my engine builder is non other then pontiac goeroo Jim Lehart aka MR p body from cebtral verginia mashine sirves . he wrote the short block part in the new must have Jim Hands book!! how to build high performance pontiac engines .in the back of the book he gives out varius engine combo,s as thus the butlers kaufman ecetera. Jim was very wel known in the late 60,s eurly 70,s in the california street wars beating up the competition in a time where there was disrespect for the Pontiac name plate . his 69 GTO took lots of scalps and actualy never lost from 454 chevelles 455 buicks ore olds with his 400 injun . he hase been working engines all his life in varius parts of the USA in diferend shops and places . he disided to get his own company about 4 years ago . altho the Butlers and the Kaufmans are the most wel known they are to big in my upinion to get that old fasion small touwn sirves .also if i buy a lets say Butler engine i dont thingk one of the Butlers actualy workt on it!!!. last pontiac in the park drag weekend in virginia 4 of the 7 engines that won where from his hands . annyway nobody but him would toutch my engine lololol .. if you go to performance years site then to there forums race/street ecetera select find then put his name in there mr p body . his posts will come forward . he always give free advice .his nolige is not limited to injun engines he hase won several best engine awards with mopar ford en chevy , but he is injun at hearth because he claims its the best street engine! . about the tomowhawk if you into the bling bling stuf a polished one with a aluminium valy pan would look the bisenis lololol .

[wick]

David, a few more questions. Is that a 700R4 trans you are running? What kind of power steering pump and pullies are you useing?

[JLM]

That's a nice looking engine you've got going there David. Thanks for the information.

Due to hood clearance issues, I've decided I am going to run the Torker II manifold on the engine. Likely with an 800 cfm Thunder AVS carb on top. For the time being I'm sure if I will do a cam swap or not. I really want to go with a set of E-heads on the motor and may go with the new cam at that time.

I was really hoping to be able to make about 500 on the engine without having to almost completely build it again from the ground up. I don't think I'll be able to get there without the use of better heads however. It's just got a set of 72cc #62's on it right now.

[wick]

JLM, 62's are some good heads. I have a friend that has them on his 474 without the dished pistons (about 12:1) and he is making some very power. 11.60's in a 4 speed '79 TA with no traction devices or weight reductions except removal of A/C components. Car even has T-Tops.

Did you find why it was running crappy the other day?

[JLM]

JLM, 62's are some good heads. I have a friend that has them on his 474 without the dished pistons (about 12:1) and he is making some very power. 11.60's in a 4 speed '79 TA with no traction devices or weight reductions except removal of A/C components. Car even has T-Tops.

Did you find why it was running crappy the other day?

I'm pretty sure it's a tuning problem with the carb. Maybe something is up with the idle circuit. It's hard to tell.

I'm going to work on the engine this weekend after I get the fenders and valance hung on the car (getting close to paint now).

Pretty much what I want from this car is to run at least quicker than my 2003 Cobra that I had. It clicked off a [email protected] at Bandimere Speedway. From a power output I'd like to have enough to go atleast a 12.79.

[Roadrage David]

David, a few more questions. Is that a 700R4 trans you are running? What kind of power steering pump and pullies are you useing?

..... Wick thats a level III tr2004r transmission from bowtie over drive good for 630 hp!. the pullies came from rodney red radiators , but we needed to custom a bit to fit. the powerstearing pump is from DSE with a custom made braket

[Roadrage David]

That's a nice looking engine you've got going there David. Thanks for the information.

Due to hood clearance issues, I've decided I am going to run the Torker II manifold on the engine. Likely with an 800 cfm Thunder AVS carb on top. For the time being I'm sure if I will do a cam swap or not. I really want to go with a set of E-heads on the motor and may go with the new cam at that time.

I was really hoping to be able to make about 500 on the engine without having to almost completely build it again from the ground up. I don't think I'll be able to get there without the use of better heads however. It's just got a set of 72cc #62's on it right now.

.........JLM forget the thunder carb . go for a holly 850 ho AED .. ADVANDS ENGINE DISIGN .. THERE CARBS ARE THE BISENIS

[JLM]

.........JLM forget the thunder carb . go for a holly 850 ho AED .. ADVANDS ENGINE DISIGN .. THERE CARBS ARE THE BISENIS

Do you have a part # for these? I'm searching jegs and summit and not coming up with anything as far as advanced engine design.

Is this the standard 4150 carbs?

Also would you go vacuum or mechanical secondaries? Car is a TH400 auto with a 3000rpm stall. in a 1969 Firebird coupe.

[Roadrage David]

http://www.aedperformance.com/ here is the website of the real stuff lololol ... jlm for more tech info ore poncho injun perf parts http://www.centralvirginiamachine.com this is the man you need .....

[Zee]

My question is what are you asking these questions over here for?

No disrespect to any of the knowledge and experience here but if you are into Pontiacs, the two sites to go to are PY and classical pontiac. Both have pretty good search functions but PY is easier to navigate. Anyway, before you buy a bunch of parts, Buy Jim Hand's "building Max performance Pontiac V8s" book. Read it, put it away, then read twice more again. It has a lot of "recipies for 400s, 428s and 455s.

I've built plenty of SBCs and SBFs but the Pontiac motor is by far the most challenging relative to part's selection because it's easy to select parts that work in RPM ranges where the engine does not spend much time and loose performance.

Here are some links to get you started. The last two are probably most on point.

http://216.178.81.108/forums/

http://www.classicalpontiac.com/

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance....turedcars.html

http://www.classicfirebird.com/hand/hand.html

http://www.dapa.org/jhpages/pontiac-cams.htm

[Roadrage David]

lolol the above information that i gave is from my engine builder Jim LEhard aka mr p body aka central virginia mashine sirves. he wrote the complete short block chapter in Jim Hands book , so it seems he found the right info here on this site!!!!! lololol ps
he is the first one in the back of the book to give 4 ore so engine combo,s