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    Results 81 to 100 of 122
    1. #81
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      Location
      Wake Forest,NC
      Posts
      843
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      VERY SUBJECTIVE!!!

      Seems like many people pay for labor, and that is not cheap hence the more $$$. I built my car for no more than $15K and that includes the car...Some people who want that "perfect" show car quality paint...yes it will cost a lot of money. But...we drive these cars...who wants a high dollar paint job? I'm confident my "guesstimate" is accurate if you do the labor your self.
      You need to research what parts are actually on those cars. The prices you posted are standard parts without upgrades, an example is the magnum price at $3K, which will not live long behind a 650-700 hp engine road racing it, by the time you get done upgrading it to survive a season you will be into for $4,500+. I put together a quick list of the major parts on my car which is very similar to Kyle and Brians. This list doesn't include the ecu, harness, a/c, tires, plumbing, carbon body parts, gauges, roll cage, paint, or interior.

      Quick list



      Engine: $20,000
      Trans: $4,500
      Brakes: $8,000
      Wheels: $4,200
      Clutch: $1,600
      Fuel tank/pump: $2,700
      Rearend w/floater: $8,500
      quadra-link w/tubs:$5,000
      Sub frame: $9,500
      Headers: $2,000
      Radiator: $2,200

      Total: $68,200


    2. #82
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Atlanta GA
      Posts
      7,477

    3. #83
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Location
      Deployed
      Posts
      3,280
      Country Flag: United States
      This is very subjective as this argument could go on forever! Really...a $1600 clutch? overkill....Upgrading a T56 Magnum? $2200 radiator? $2000 headers? Overkill....where are you buying parts???

      Don't get me wrong, building a bullet proof drive train I'm sure is worth it when you beat the living snot out of it! But come on...those prices are grossly inflated.
      1970 Camaro/DSE build


      Are you driver enough? Maybe....come on blue!
      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...71#post1147371

    4. #84
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Posts
      606
      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      This is very subjective as this argument could go on forever! Really...a $1600 clutch? overkill....Upgrading a T56 Magnum? $2200 radiator? $2000 headers? Overkill....where are you buying parts???

      Don't get me wrong, building a bullet proof drive train I'm sure is worth it when you beat the living snot out of it! But come on...those prices are grossly inflated.

      All of that stuff seems grossly expensive, unnecessary and overkill. You can definitely build a car cheaper and take it out and run with the big dogs... Then your parts will break. Then, maybe you'll upgrade to something a that is stronger. Maybe you'll buy a full floater because you can't because those Torino big bearings in your Ford 9" just aren't cut out for racing. You'll finally be able to drive more confidently into and around corners. Then your shocks just won't cut it compared to the competition, now you're upgrading from some Verishocks or QA1s to some RideTechs or JRis. They work great and you're tearing up the track, but you didn't invest in an expensive road race oil pan or a good dry sump setup, and you hurt your engine whilst pulling through a high speed sweeping corner. Time to pull it apart, now you might as well add more power. You put everything back together and now your 700hp engine just destroys your clutch. Damn now it is time to get that expensive dual disk clutch. Now everything is really running well and when you head out to the track you don't have to pull off because of some weird and very disconcerting noise. you look down at your gauges during the straight and... water temps are 260 and oil temps are 285, (if you even have a gauge for that). That's not good. Now the cores in the radiator have been expanded from overheating and your oil has suffered some viscosity break down. Nothing ever seems to go right, does it?

      We probably could argue about this forever. What qualifies as nice is always subjective. However, arguing over how much it costs to build a car like Finch's car, or any of the DSE test cars isn't really that subjective. Throw in an extra 30k for a nice paint job and interior over something basic. Tim's 68K estimate might seem high in some spots, but it doesn't factor in all of the parts that that range between $50-$350, and there are a ton of those. My experience is that it is impossible to believe how much money gets sucked up building a pro-touring car comparable to any of the fast cars out there, until you try to build one. Nobody ever talks about how expensive -AN fittings are, but once you start adding oil coolers, and power steering coolers, and vents, and breathers, or dry sumps, you start realizing how much all the little things cost. The little misc. things don't nickel and dime you either. Those little fittings are always between $25 and $100 per fitting!

      I suppose we will probably all continue arguing because we can't believe how much it costs to build a certain type of car, or because we built a competitive car and had the misfortune of adding up the receipts, or maybe because we simply stopped adding things up after 70K, which was a year ago before the car was painted...

      Matt

    5. #85
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Posts
      606
      Where is Mr. Vengeance? I think the most appropriate thing for this discussion right now would be another Big Lebowski gif from the end of the film where he just says, "F--- it dude. Let's go bowling."

    6. #86
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      Location
      Wake Forest,NC
      Posts
      843
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by badazz81z28 View Post
      This is very subjective as this argument could go on forever! Really...a $1600 clutch? overkill....Upgrading a T56 Magnum? $2200 radiator? $2000 headers? Overkill....where are you buying parts???

      Don't get me wrong, building a bullet proof drive train I'm sure is worth it when you beat the living snot out of it! But come on...those prices are grossly inflated.
      This argument is not subjective at all, you stated you could build Kyle's or Brian's cars for $50-$60K if you did all the work, I'm trying to show you that you cannot. I posted a list of parts on my car totaling $68K+ and left a ton off the list, so now the argument from you is my prices are inflated.
      Those prices are NOT grossly over inflated, when you build a car like Kyle's, Brian's, or mine that is built to be raced and you're trying to reduce the failure of parts, you buy the best you can find. The $1,600 clutch is an iron twin disc with an aluminum flywheel, trust me you can spend 3X's that on a clutch. The $2,000 headers are DSE headers, open their catalog and check the price, they're actually $2,500 if you buy the stainless V band clamps like I did. The $2,200 radiator is from C&R racing, it has built in oil cooler, power steering cooler, and dual 12" Spal fans to manage the insane heat that gets generated on the track, I beat my car like a rented mule in 100* temps and the oil will stay below 240*.
      As Matt eluded to I didn't include the plumbing cost ( $4,000) or all the small stuff that is required to complete the car. Take your car out to one of these events that has road racing and see how it does, 10-15 laps on a road course will expose every weakness the car has.

    7. #87
      Join Date
      Jun 2009
      Location
      Piqua, Oh
      Posts
      397
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396 View Post
      Take your car out to one of these events that has road racing and see how it does, 10-15 laps on a road course will expose every weakness the car has.
      IF you want to be competitive, and not have to FIX something every time you get back from the track. You need parts like Tim is describing. His part prices are not inflated. I have been looking at upgrades ever since I ran Gingerman last year. (mainly brakes) If you don't buy the right wheels (I have cast 17" wheels) to begin with, your brake upgrade could really be cost preventative. My car is fine on the street and some AutoX s, but IF I want to hit the next level... Some "things" will have to change. (driver skill included)
      Mike South
      1968 Camaro SS/RS LS1/T56
      Ride Tech Tru Turn, Ride Tech T/Q Coil-overs
      Ride Tech 4-link

    8. #88
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      Nashville TN
      Posts
      771
      All I will say is that it costs money to go fast, more than you can ever try to sit down and estimate pre-build.

      I never even wanted to keep track as it would only cause additional stress and could be used against me in a court of law. Divorce court that is.
      Brian Finch
      Pro-touring Hero

      The Proof is on the Pavement

      Sponsored by Baer Brakes, JRI Shocks, Pennzoil, Tremec, Magnaflow, Centerforce, AFCO Racing, Kurt Urban Performance, Amercian Powertrain, Forgeline, Holley, and of course BFG.

      For the best engine money can buy please visit http://www.kurturbanperformance.com/


      Authorized dealer for Baer, Ridetech, Detroit Speed, Vintage Air, Motorstate Distributing, Wilwood Engineering, American Autowire, Forgeline, Holley, Afco,

      Contact brian@finchperformance for special Pro-Touring.com member pricing

      www.hotrodtransformations.com

    9. #89
      Join Date
      Dec 2009
      Posts
      261
      Country Flag: Canada
      71RS, you had a T56 magnum fail? What was the nature of the failure? I'm surprised, that power shouldn't be beyond the factory rating unless you're running a real torque monster.
      Was it a temperature thing? I could see cooling becoming important as the constant duty of track racing comes in to play. Still, at that horsepower level I'd not of thought of more than a cooler would be needed.

    10. #90
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Finch View Post
      All I will say is that it costs money to go fast, more than you can ever try to sit down and estimate pre-build.

      I never even wanted to keep track as it would only cause additional stress and could be used against me in a court of law. Divorce court that is.

      Way too true ... and funny.

    11. #91
      Join Date
      Jul 2001
      Location
      Calgary, AB
      Posts
      1,826
      Country Flag: Canada
      Quote Originally Posted by Finch View Post
      All I will say is that it costs money to go fast, more than you can ever try to sit down and estimate pre-build.

      I never even wanted to keep track as it would only cause additional stress and could be used against me in a court of law. Divorce court that is.
      Amen Reverend... Amen
      James
      1967 Camaro RS - The OLC
      1984 Camaro GT1
      1989 Camaro 1LE - The BOC

    12. #92
      Join Date
      May 2005
      Location
      Houston tx
      Posts
      183
      Country Flag: United States
      Turn one seems to kill the rednecks. Practice practice practice. Looks like a ton of fun tho.
      Never finished.

    13. #93
      Join Date
      Aug 2011
      Location
      North Platte,NE
      Posts
      876
      Country Flag: United States
      I dont have half the money alot the people on here do in there rides. There also a lot of super nice and engineered components out there people have axcess to for the GM and Ford camps. Even if DSE had a complete end all suspension setup I could by off the shelf I probably couldnt afford it, besides my car is already blessed with some damn good geometry in stock form. It must of been an accident on Chryslers part lol!

    14. #94
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Location
      York, Pa
      Posts
      457
      I like Kyle and Stacy too, but $2,500 for headers is just stupid!
      Justin Snow

    15. #95
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by James OLC View Post
      Amen Reverend... Amen
      Ignorance is bliss. In this case, I don't want to know.

      I do know for sure that it would be less expensive, both in time and money, to buy a modern high-performance car than it would be to try and build a piece of old iron to similar performance levels. One must be in it for the love of the car because any of this sort of thing make no financial sense.

      I must really love my car.
      Last edited by CarlC; 05-25-2013 at 07:35 PM.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    16. #96
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Location
      York, Pa
      Posts
      457
      The headers below were custom built step-headers, stainless, with V-band collectors. Crammed between a big block and a tight frame rail. They were beautiful and cost $1,700 to have custom built! Anyone paying a penny more is doing business with the wrong people.
      Justin Snow

    17. #97
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Apex, NC
      Posts
      1,020
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Finch View Post
      All I will say is that it costs money to go fast, more than you can ever try to sit down and estimate pre-build.

      I never even wanted to keep track as it would only cause additional stress and could be used against me in a court of law. Divorce court that is.
      Yup!............ Hell, my car is finally coming together at long last and just in the last two weeks I've blown through $4k on all the little crap. Hoses, AN fittings, etc etc etc. I love it when someone can build on a budget and run with the big dogs though. Consistency, well that's whole other story.

    18. #98
      Join Date
      May 2005
      Location
      Houston tx
      Posts
      183
      Country Flag: United States
      Yea, mine is a little over $60k now and I did the majority of everything myself. Good parts add up quick. LS motor, built 6 spd, twin clutch, custom turbo kit all powdercoated and hot side wrapped, cage, gauges, fab-9 rear, full CA chassisworks front suspension, wilwood 14" 6 piston brakes, wilwood master, adjustable clutch master, 20x16 and 19x8 wheels and tires, sfi bellhousing, coilovers front and rear, all new metal and glass, paint and body, led tail lights and turn signals, DSE electric RS conversion, billit hood hinges, sparco seats and harnesses, all new interior, lokar pedal kit, full stereo setup, HID headlights. All new seals and trim in whole car. It can get rediculous fast. Especially if you want the car to be able to do more than one thing well.
      Never finished.

    19. #99
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Apex, NC
      Posts
      1,020
      Country Flag: United States
      I like your sig line 1Bad68camaro

    20. #100
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      oshawa ontario
      Posts
      1,607
      Country Flag: Canada
      I looked at 71RS/SS396s "Track Car Build" build thread and I believe it when he quotes those prices of parts. The problem as I see it is every one of those parts are racing spec parts made to fit a 70 Camaro. They end up being almost one offs which equals $$. If he had made his 70 Camaro fit off the self racing parts. You would have 1/2 the money into it. 1/4 if he bought used race parts. Look at my radiator, I made mounts to fit that rad to my car. You can buy these from a place like www.circletrackwarehouse for 2 or 3 hundred bucks. It is a standard sized racing rad and my car has the mounts so now I have all kinds of options.


      Nascar 69 Chevelle project, 1999 Hutch Pagan Nascar chassis, 69 Chevelle body,700hp, Penske's, slicks, roadrace track day https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...le-Cup-project
      89 Iroc 406 Fitech 5 spd
      01 chevy 2500HD 4x4 8.1 Allison
      31 Scarab 2 x 454

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