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    Results 101 to 120 of 721
    1. #101
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Ma.
      Posts
      5,567
      Country Flag: United States
      Wow that much flex is amazing! The car looks and sounds great on the track Lance. Very nice.

      Wayne
      Car FINALLY home !!!!!! lol
      Project FNQUIK https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ghlight=FNQUIK


    2. #102
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Well, I found out the cause of the flexing and rubbing at the last event. Check out the movement on the outer race...



      This bearing started to fail in less than 100 street miles. Here in the first autocross lap I ran on it you can hear it already failing...Go to about 34 seconds in



      New bearing will be pressed on today, hopefully this will clear up several issues.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    3. #103
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Lawler, IA
      Posts
      569
      Country Flag: United States
      Are you still running the 7.5"?

    4. #104
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      No this is a 9" housing.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    5. #105
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      I just thought I'd update a few things and report back on the upgrades I did to the car over the last winter.

      This season so far the car has 2100 miles put on it, around 70 autocross runs, 15 speed stop runs, (5) 20 minute sessions of road course action, and the rest is daily driving miles. The car is currently leading the local SCCA CAM class championship points and has been invited to attend The Speedway Motors Classic American Muscle Invitational Challenge at the SCCA Pro-Solo finale in Lincoln, NE next month.

      During all of this I had to replace the clutch finally and refresh the rear axle seals and bearings, both upgrades came with issues during installation, but once corrected have performed flawlessly ever since.

      Last winter I rebuilt the Power Steering system replacing the stock style pump with a reman unit and adding a power steering fluid cooler inline between the steering box and the pump. The fluid was replaced with Royal Purple power steering fluid and I have not had to think about the power steering system once since then...it has stood up to a LOT of abuse this year and kept on running like a Timex. Successful upgrade...

      I added 9.5" rims up front and Falken Azenis 615K 275/40/17s on all four corners and this might have been the best upgrade yet. They just flat out work and the extra width up front along with the ability to rotate them around to even wear has been a great combination. They are currently starting to get a bit thin...they might get me through the Pro-Solo and Nationals, but I have canceled my registration for our local events 9 & 10 this weekend as they are going to be at Heartland Park Topeka once again and that surface there just chews tires to pieces and mine won't last through another weekend of that abuse. I've put out some feelers trying to get a little bit of help with some new tires for Nationals, we'll see how that goes. Love the Falkens though...definitely the go to performance tire for the type of driving I have been doing.

      The body bushing project...I can't really say it has made a huge difference in the car's performance, but I can say that I'm pretty certain the old bushings would not have held up to the abuse I put the car through this year. I'm glad I did it...and I'm glad I won't have to do it again any time soon.

      Things currently being considered are some more front end alignment changes. I need to get less static camber in the front which will involve removing a nut between the driver side UCA shaft and the frame and then all new alignment procedures. I also need to 4 corner weigh the car again and get it set to be balanced with just the driver in the car. At the Pro-Solo and at Solo Nationals you can't take passengers so I need to set the car up to be at it's best with just me in the car.

      I also recently split a sway bar end link bushing and instead of just replacing it, I've ordered a ridetech MuscleBar front sway bar. I'm hoping I'll have time to get it, get it installed and get all of the other alignment and ride height settings updated before Nationals in a month...along with some time to test n tune on the car. This bar is around 30% stiffer than the bar currently in the car and will necessitate a rear spring rate change as well...but should make a huge improvement in the handle of the car on the track. It still just rolls way too much as it is now.

      Overall the car has been fantastic to drive this year, everyone that rides with me on track has a blast in it, it always gets lots of pictures taken of it, and overall the response to it has been a lot of fun. I wouldn't change any of that.

      Plans for next year are kind of up in the air right now...I really REALLY had fun at the USCA event and told the wife right after that if I could do a few more of those a year, I'd give up the local SCCA racing. That would necessitate at least a 4 point roll bar additions as well as some race seats and harnesses. I'm still mulling that around...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    6. #106
      Join Date
      Dec 2011
      Posts
      118
      Country Flag: United States
      O YEAH!!!! MONTE CARLOS RUNNING BIG TIME. Can't wait to see the update on the muscle bar.

    7. #107
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Saraland , Alabama
      Posts
      22
      Country Flag: United States
      I love following your updates Lance. Gives me inspiration for my '86.
      Jim
      1986 Monte Carlo SS

    8. #108
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States

      Lance ...

      When I worked up your current suspension package
      , we decided to run it a tick on the free side so there was no push (unless you turn in & apex too early).

      For those following along with us, TRS (Total Roll Stiffness) is an accurate calculation that takes into account front & rear track width, roll centers, CG, spring rates & sway bar rates to provide a total roll resistance number.

      The TRS number ONLY tells us the car's average roll angle at specific G-force numbers ... not front & rear roll angles. That's where the FLLD & RLLD percentages come in. These acronyms stand for Front & Rear Lateral Load Distribution. That's an engineering term for how are we splitting up this roll resistance front & rear ... stated in a percentage. We need more roll in the rear than the front for neutral/balanced handling.

      We worked out your current FLLD as 54.0% FLLD & 46.0% RLLD. That's with:

      Front Springs: 600#
      Front Sway Bar: 36mm x .220" wall
      Rear Springs: 162#
      Rear Sway Bar: 1" Solid

      If you just changed to the XHD ridetech Muscle Bar with no rear changes, the 1.5" x .250" wall sway bar alone would change your FLLD/RLLD to 56.6%/43.4% and tighten the car up. You'd have more rear grip and when the track is really grippy from proper temp & good rubber laid down, it would be tight. Tight means harder to turn, but not pushing ... but borderline. That would be ok for road courses ... as long as you run big sweeping corners with wide entry & exit lines ... but it wouldn't like tight corners & it certainly wouldn't autocross well at all.

      So you'll want to change the rear springs at the same time you change the bar. ridetech sells the rear springs you need, so I suggest you get them with your new sway bar. You'll need 250# rear springs.

      So with ...

      Front Springs: 600# (Same)
      Front Sway Bar: 1.5" OD x .250" wall (Custom XHD Muscle Bar)
      Rear Springs: 250# (New)
      Rear Sway Bar: 1" Solid (Same)

      Your new FLLD/RLLD will be 53.9%/ 54.1% ... within .1% of your previous set-up. But of course the whole car will run flatter ... less roll angle ... and work the inside tires better.




    9. #109
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Grain Valley, MO
      Posts
      92
      Country Flag: United States
      Give up the local SCCA racing!? WHAT??? You've always got a crowd at your car and a smile on your face. Say it ain't so.

    10. #110
      Join Date
      Aug 2011
      Location
      North Platte,NE
      Posts
      876
      Country Flag: United States
      Those bearings look alot like the "green" bearings people use in Chrysler axles to replace the tapered adjustables. If that is a ball bearing like they are, please keep checking them regularly. They are NOT what you want for a heavy hard cornering car.

    11. #111
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Mizzouri View Post
      Give up the local SCCA racing!? WHAT??? You've always got a crowd at your car and a smile on your face. Say it ain't so.
      You should have seen the smile on my face all weekend at the USCA event.

      Maybe I can still do both, it'll take cuts elsewhere though. Still working on that.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    12. #112
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Lawler, IA
      Posts
      569
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by SSLance View Post
      You should have seen the smile on my face all weekend at the USCA event.

      Maybe I can still do both, it'll take cuts elsewhere though. Still working on that.
      The USCA events are a different animal that once you've been bitten you just want more. Pushes you and your car to another level. Plus the family you compete against, well theres nothing lke it.

      I love the occasional SCCA autox. Great place to learn and fine tune, but I to saved the car for the big events.

    13. #113
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post

      As far as Lance's current package goes ... without making any major modifications (cutting up) the car ... it only needs a few things:
      * Bigger front bar & matching rear springs
      * A little more caster & a little less camber
      * Scaled to be balanced with just the driver
      * New tires to replace his current shredded ones
      * Once he get's it running flatter, he may be able to reduce the ride height "a little."
      I guess we could call this "Stage 3" of master plan...

      Bigger front sway bar is now installed along with matching rear springs, but I went a step further and also installed a new chassis mounted rear sway bar to replace the LCA mounted bar the car had on it.

      Static camber has been dialed back to -1.2 degrees both sides and caster bumped up to +9.6 degrees both sides.

      The ride height has been corrected to balance the car out with the driver only in the driver seat. New ride heights at the fender are 25 7/8s" front, 26 7/8s" rear. Front is about 1/4" lower, rear is about 1/2" lower than with the stage 2 setup. I haven't scaled the car yet but I'm betting from past experience it's pretty close to as good as it'll get without moving weight around.

      Still working on a way to get some new tires though...

      Here are some pics. Front MuscleBar installed









      Rear bar installed







      To say the car corners flatter is an understatement...it is unbelievable how much less the car rolls now. I did the front bar and rear springs first, then did some testing with the car. It's like a different car...what I notice the most is the outside front fender doesn't dip down on turn in anywhere near as much as it used to. The balance is neutral, the driver can make the car a bit tight or loose just by making subtle changes. It felt VERY good, should be much faster on the course.

      I then put the new rear bar in starting with the end links on the middle of the three adjustment holes and test drove it. The car rolls EVEN LESS now...huge difference. That setting made the car loose halfway through the roll through zone and was a bit sketchy. It was rolling a lot less and changed the handle on the car.

      Yesterday I was able to move the end links to the forward hole and drive it on the street a bit more and it's closer to neutral again. It felt more stable and enjoyable to drive spiritedly.

      The next plan of attack is to schedule some parking lot shock tuning time and dial in my shock settings to match the new bars and springs. I have to leave town for a week so I won't be able to get on that until next week...but I can't wait.

      We've wanted less roll out of the car for a long time and now I finally have it. I'm stoked to see how it races the next time out.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    14. #114
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Iowa
      Posts
      399
      Country Flag: United States
      So just to make sure, awhile back you had a video of your rims flexing. From what I understood from the post after that it was all the bearing and not the rim at all correct?
      Miles Boyer
      The car hobby is dangerous,if the speed doesn't kill you, the cost of parts will.
      91 V8 S10
      88 Cutlass Pro-Tour
      97 Chevy lifted Z-71
      96 Corvette

    15. #115
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Yep, the brand new axle bearing on that side had started to eat itself during that video. I thought it was strange because there was the same amount of room between the wheel and the shock mount on both sides and yet it only rubbed on the one side. Then I found the sloppy bearing was the cause of a vibration that started at the same time.

      It's all good now.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    16. #116
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Posts
      2
      Country Flag: United States
      I really like what you are doing. Love the pictures.
      I am just getting started with my project. I have a 1985 Monte I bought new and it has 33,000 miles.
      I am just getting ready to put in a GM crate zz383 deluxe. I am also trying to find out where to have my 200-4r built.
      My I ask where you got your serpentine drive kit.
      Is that chrome or polished aluminum? Was it store bought or did you build it your self.

    17. #117
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      I bought the crank, water pump and alternator pulleys from a friend...I believe they are from March polished aluminum pieces and are a bit of an underdrive setup. The Alternator bracket and adjuster came from eBay and hold my CS140 amp style alternator. The underdrive pulleys have never been a problem with heating or charging issues.

      Are you going to use the CCC system on your ZZ383? I'm still running mine and have been able to tweak it just so that it still runs great and makes good power...yet still gets close to 20 mpg on the highway and 10 mpg on the track.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    18. #118
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Posts
      2
      Country Flag: United States
      SSLance
      I looked up your brackets so now I know where to get them.
      Not sure yet as to the total setup. I will be ordering the 383 in October. I am open to all suggestions from fan to rear wheels.
      I have been out of the car seen for a lot of years, been setting on this Monte since I bought it new. The last 20 years I have been in to Harleys.
      The last cars I worked on had no computers and the emissions were just a pvc vent into the rocker cover, and a EGR valve. This project has been on my mind for 15 years or more.

    19. #119
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      I spent time last week fine tuning the installation of the Chassis mounted sway bar and got some road testing in last Friday night. We decided to try the stiffest bar setting and my softest springs I had on hand, 162# springs. The car felt fine on the spirited road driving but all of my parking lots had cars in them so I couldn't do any simulated autocross turns. It was just a touch tight if anything on the road, so Saturday morning I swapped in my 185# springs and went back out. I found a parking lot and made quite a few runs while adjusting on the shocks. I got the car "okay" but I had a weird hopping issue on the rear that made me loose when it happened. I couldn't place exactly what was happening but remember the whole setup is new to me. What I found when I got back to the shop is the end links on the rear sway bar had pushed on the axle mounts and rotated them back far enough for the endlinks to go up top over center and jam the sway bar ends pointing up. Thinking that this was causing binding which was causing my hopping issue I proceeded to have my friend John make me some 3/4" spacers to lower the axle brackets so I could rotate them forward enough to get the end links pointing straight down and keep the bar off the diff.

      Then I came in the house and reviewed the videos I took...and found the REAL PROBLEM... The inside rear tire was lifting off the ground on hard autocross type turns.

      I went back out Sunday morning and tried it again wondering if the new spacers and repositioned bar would fix this issue, it didn't. I could tell right away now that I recognize the feeling when the inside tire lifts. I then put the bar on the middle setting and tried again, no help. So I tried the softest setting...a bit better maybe, but still no good. No way can I autocross the car like this. It drives FANTASTIC on the street, on and off ramps are a hoot...car is balanced, secure, and just fun to drive...until I try to make a hard simulated autocross type turn...where it lifts the inside tire, the rear hops a bit...then slides loose.

      I decided to punt and pulled the bar and put my LCA mounted bar back on as I know I can race with it and I have several big races coming up next weekend. At the same time I put the 250# pound springs back in that were matched to the LCA bar and new front sway bar. Except...I noticed a difference and upon further review found one of them to be a 200# spring instead of a 250#, wrong one came in the box. FML!!

      So I put a set of 200# springs I had in so they'd match and test drove it.

      Here is the video that shows the inside rear tire with the chassis mounted bar on all three settings and then the LCA bar...all taken Sunday in similar type conditions.



      My conclusion... While the chassis mounted bar really helped the street manners, it was too much sway bar to use for autocross. There may be other adjustments that can be made to other parts of the setup to help it all work together, but right now I just don't have the time to be trying to find them. Maybe I'll give it a shot again in the off season. For now I'm going with what I know works.

      I got the correct 250# spring in yesterday and after a quick install I made a trip to my favorite parking lot and could tell in just one turn that it was better...WAY better. It's back to being balanced in the turn like it has been since stage 2 was installed and the hoppity hop is gone. I then put the car on the scales, set the ride height properly with the driver's weight in the seat and adjusted the springs until the cross and left side weight equaled 100% and locked it down.

      It's full of gas, just needs a quick bath, loaded on the trailer, rest of the gear loaded up and I'm heading to the SCCA Nationals in Lincoln Nebraska first thing Saturday morning. I was invited to participate in the CAM Pro Solo Invitational on Sunday which I'm really stoked about and then I'll be racing in the new CAM Contemporary Class at the Solo Nats on Tuesday and Wednesday.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    20. #120
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Hey Lance,

      It's not necessarily accurate that the rear sway bar to too stiff for Autocross. But it is too stiff relative to your front sway bar & spring set-up. What the video is showing is "too much diagonal roll angle." I cover diagonal roll angle quite a bit in my chassis threads over on Lat-G.

      When I calculated your set-up using the new ridetech Muscle bar with .250" wall thickness ... to keep the FLLD/RLLD correct with your trailing arm mounted rear sway bar... required 250# rear springs. Obviously, as the video shows ... when you tested the new chassis mounted sway bar ... it is simply too stiff for the rest of your set-up. That means you're not allowing the car to roll correctly front & rear. You could say it's rolling too much in the front or too little in the rear ... but in reality ... it's simply the front to rear roll angle difference that is too much.

      Diagonal roll onto the outside front tire is critical for proper handling. All cars need to roll over onto the outside front tire "to a certain degree." There is an optimum amount, which I find to be about .35-.4° degree more roll angle in the rear when compared to the front. But the set-up in the video is creating too much diagonal roll. So the front end is rolling over onto the outside front tire "too much". This can happen from too much rear spring rate or too much rear sway bar rate. The results differ. Too much sway bar rate lifts the inside rear wheel. Too much rear spring rate does not lift the inside rear wheel.

      To everyone following along, Lance & I worked out his set-up with the trailing arm mounted sway bar & it handles correctly. Lance got this different rear sway bar to test ... and obviously ... it is too stiff. So going back to the set-up we worked out with the original rear sway bar is the correct path ... for now. If ... if you ever go to a stiffer front sway bar than you have now ... like a .375" thick wall version of the sway bar you have now ... then you will need either a stiffer rear sway bar or stiffer rear springs to keep the FLLD/RLLD balanced ... which is what makes your car handle so balanced & neutral now.

      :Cheers:


      Last edited by Ron Sutton; 08-28-2014 at 06:44 PM.

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