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    1. #661
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      Speaking of which, we should do a quick TeamViewer session...



      Andrew

      lol...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car


    2. #662
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Finally got back out on course Sunday after a 7 month long break. Had a blast running our "modified" event, was a bummer to not get too see those that ran the afternoon session but hopefully by next event the restrictions will be lifted.

      Here are the results... http://www.azsolo.com/backup/index.p...s-info/results

      I was 17th raw time, 18th pax and finished 0.16 seconds out of first place in a packed CAM T class. Pretty happy with that, had a blast racing with James all day for the class win, congrats to him on that.

      I've watched all the videos back, multiple times and spent some time talking with others about the course and times and watching other videos. I think I could have got a bit more out of the car with better line choice (keeping the course shorter) and maybe been more aggressive on the start. That said, I still think it did pretty dang well.

      The new engine and more importantly the tune fixes REALLY helped increase the mid range power as well as making it pretty manageable to put down. Other than aerating the power steering fluid on my first run, the powertrain performed flawlessly all day.

      The only suspension adjustment I made to the car during the run group was to add one round of rear brake bias and then back a half round back out after 1 run. It is amazing to me how just one turn on the knob can change it enough to lock the back brakes up first before the fronts.

      Here is my fastest run of the day with the Solostorm data overlayed.



      The new version of Solostorm took some getting used to but in the end is MUCH easier to deal with than the older version I was running. I just need to get more of our Region's drivers to start using it so we can compare to each other's runs and all get better. It's an invaluable tool...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    3. #663
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Strangely, I didn't take one picture while performing my latest upgrade. Not one...

      So text will have to do to keep you all in the loop. A friend graciously offered to loan me a third member with a Gleason Torsen differential and 3.89:1 gears so we swapped it in this morning.

      My Detroit Locker had been acting a bit funny ever since the track day when I hurt the engine and I didn't quite trust it anymore. It started shuddering on decel and making all sorts of weird clanks and clunks and had a "dartiness" to it on the street. Plus, I have been wanting to ditch it ever since the new big sway bar install up front as it just isn't needed any longer and it detriments were outweighing it's good traits.

      I was anxious to see how much metal was in the bottom of the case and what else we may find and honestly, it all looked and felt pretty normal. Gears look decent still as well. IF there is anything wrong with it, it's inside the locker itself.

      Driving the Gleason is pleasurable for sure. It basically acts and feels like an open differential until you stab the gas enough to spin a tire which it then instantly and smoothly engages as a locker and spins both equally. No strange dartiness, no clunks or clangs, just smooth operating. The 3.89 gear is great for street driving. Haven't had it out on the highway yet but I expect it to shine there as well.

      For SCCA\second gear courses I also expect it to shine. Looking at drive ratio calculators it appears that it'll top out at 71 mph at 6500 RPM which is perfect.

      First gear Good Guys courses it hurts a bit more though. 6500 with the 3.50 was 51 mph while 6500 with the 3.89 will be 47 mph. 7,000 RPM gets it back up to around 51 mph though. I may be just a bit limited on top speed in first gear but it should pull harder getting there and the Torsen should make getting around the tight turns better as well so who knows...

      We'll race it next Saturday with SCCA, that will be it's first real test. Personally...I can't wait to feel how it acts in the first high speed sweeper. I know I'm gonna LOVE it. I'm pretty sure I'll dig the lower gear for pulling out of corners as well.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    4. #664
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
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      Peoria, AZ
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      1,758
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      I spent the last week or so chasing and correcting some issues so I figured it was a good time for an update to the build thread.

      When I originally swapped in the electric cooling fans about 10 years ago, I also upgraded to a CS-144 style 140 amp alternator which I hung off of March Underdrive pulleys and brackets. It took a bit of work to get the larger alternator case to work with the bracket and turnbuckle and several tries on belt length until I got it "right". It all worked pretty well until about 3 years ago when that alternator failed (right after moving to Phoenix and of course a couple of days before my first race event here). A friend loaned me a Alternator out of a 90 Caprice which is basically the same as what I had and I've been running it since.

      When I swapped in the EFI last year, I discovered that the alternator didn't put out enough amps at idle to run a heavy load of accessories. By the time the AC blower was full blast and engine cooling fans were on high, the charging system was down around 12 volts. We remedied that by building a table into the EFI software that bumped the idle up as the volts dropped below where they needed to be...and that worked well as well.

      For the last year I've been limping along a 9 year old optima red top that would only charge to about 12.2-12.3 volts even with the big Optima charger. It was fine as well as long as I kept up on it. Well, until Tuesday that is. This is the day I finally took my wife for a second ride in the car since the EFI install. The first time was when it was 110 degrees out and the ECU freaked out when the volts dropped too low and we barely made it home. This time I dropper her off at Target for a bit then went for a cruise to see how Andrew's latest tune was...when I noticed the care was having trouble idling. When I looked...the volts were down in the 10s... Even a cruise up the highway wouldn't cure it so I called her, told her I'd come back in the truck to get her as I had to get the car home. I pulled into the driveway with it at 9.5 volts and yes, it was dead as soon as I turned it off.

      My first thought was the battery finally died. It would hold 12.1v but as soon as I turned key on and fuel pump would prime it would drop into the 9s...so I put a new battery in it. During the next test drive, all was good, volts were fine, it idled great...all good... Until the engine warmed up enough to turn fans on when the volts dropped down to 12.0 once again. Even revving the engine to 3,000 RPMS wouldn't spin the Alternator fast enough to make enough amps to run the fans. So I started the chase for a new alternator knowing full well I had about 3 days before a race and then another 5 days or so before a 2 day race event at Good Guys.

      Making wholesale changes to the charging system was a dream, but reality was I needed it to be fixed that day. I found a place that rebuilt alternators here in town, so I loaded both of mine up and headed there. They gave me several options but the most favorable wouldn't be ready for 8-10 days (270 amp alt that would bolt right on). So I bought a rebuilt CS-144 with a stock smaller pulley for about $100 and headed home. I knew I'd need a shorter belt but I forgot that I'd need to work around the turnbuckle that would only move the alternator so far before it would interfere one way or the other. A 42" belt was great with the larger March pulley. A 41" looked to be about right with the smaller stock sized pulley, but O'Reillys only had a 40" in stock. Of course it moved the alternator so close to the water pump the turnbuckle was too long. I thought about cutting it down or searching for a shorter one...then decided to try AutoZone to see if they had a 41" belt, which they did. I had to fiddle with the turnbuckle just a bit to get it so it would tighten the belt up but in the end everything ended up in just about the right spot. Next time I have it off I'll space the turnbuckle out from the Alt just a bit for a bit more room to turn the lock nut but for now, it's ready to race.



      What is really sweet is it now holds 14.3v at idle with the cooling fans on. And with every accessory and light on full blast it holds about 12.8v at idle...so the smaller pulley and the fresh alternator cured the charging issue I've had for a LONG time. I've got the car all cleaned up, all autocross gear loaded up and it's ready to head out at the butt crack of dawn tomorrow for Arizona Region Fall 2020 Event 3.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    5. #665
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
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      Peoria, AZ
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      1,758
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      This is the best picture I have with the old Alternator and March underdrive pulley.

      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    6. #666
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
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      Peoria, AZ
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      1,758
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      Guess I forgot to update here...

      Picked these up on a Black Friday deal.



      275/35/18 Falken RT660s

      Once mounted they are about 1/4" wider than the RE71s.





      I've scrubbed them in and man, I hadn't realized just how bad my old tires were. Just on the street these ride so much better. They also make pretty good clouds of smoke when spinning... I get to try them on the track for the first time this coming Saturday.

      And just because, here are a few pics my friend took of me at GGs couple weeks ago.







      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    7. #667
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
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      The City of Fountains
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      15,971
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      Awesome!
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
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      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    8. #668
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      475
      Really curious to hear how they compare to the RE71s. I have about one race left in my tires and was looking to go to the 660s this time around since they are way cheaper than the 71s.
      1970 VW Bug - Just your average mid engine Bug
      Track toy - 06 Evo - E85 and lots of boost
      Newest track toy - 2021 Supra

    9. #669
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
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      Been a bit since my last actual car update. I've raced the car a few times with the new tires installed and frankly...I'm just not happy with it's performance. At our last event I had to make a hero run on my last run to get back past Mat for the CAM T win by 2 tenths, but still placed like 37th in raw time out of 120 which is not up to par. I got to thinking about things, analyzing videos and data from the event, and decided it was time to get back to basics. It had been 3 full years since the car was on an alignment rack and tire temps taken after my runs at January event showed the inside edge of the front tires was 10 degrees hotter than the outside edge...a sign of too much camber (for this tire apparently). I am also having trouble putting power down without the rear stepping out if I have any steering angle in the car at all, probably related to the torque sensing rear diff. When I get back into the gas while still turned the inside wheel slips just a bit, the diff senses this and directs 2.5 times the torque to the outside wheel which then spins more and throws the car sideways. While I love the diff for corner entry and roll through portions of a turn, I hate it's corner exit traits and this is where this car makes it's bones...on corner exit. Something has to change.

      First up, full physical evaluation to see where things are. I started by weighing the car.



      This is the naked car, no driver weight.



      Some how over the past 3 years the car has gained 80 pounds. The good thing is, it is almost all on the rear tires.

      This is with simulated driver weight in the driver seat.



      I'm actually pretty happy with this. Cross weight % and weight equals right side % and weight to the pound.

      I also measured ride heights with the driver's weight in car and I'm happy with that as well, right where I like things.

      I then rolled the car back, replaced the front scales with turn plates, rolled the car back forward and checked the alignment. This is where things went haywire.



      This is the sheet from the last time I had the car aligned...on a computerized rack, with a trained tech, that I paid good money for.



      Shame on me for not keeping a better eye on things. Now that I see where it was set with my own eyes, and realize there has been way too much camber in the RF for the past 3 years, a few things are starting to add up. One for instance is the RF has a tendency to lock up under hard braking when entering a right hand turn, the LF doesn't have this issue.

      My goal was to take some static camber out to try to get the tire temps more evenly spread across the tire and I also wanted to see how taking a bit of caster out affected the rear tire weight...to see if "caster jacking" is somehow playing havoc with my diff causing my rear stepping out issue. I quickly realized that I had some work to do to get things back in shape. After a bunch of pulling shims, measuring, rolling the car back and forth, measuring again, etc etc...I came up with this.

      LF Camber -1.25* RF Camber -1.00*
      LF Caster +9.00* RF Caster -9.25*
      Toe in 1/8"

      That is close enough for now to see how the tires and the car react. We race again Feb 13 which will be next test.

      Before I made any alignment changes, I measured the weight on the rear tires with the front tires on turn plates. Actually I took 3 measurements, 15* left turn, wheels straight, and 15* right turn. I'm not sure if this test was scientific or not as I'm certain there are other variables at play. The results were interesting though.

      With the extra 1.50* camber in the RF and 10.00* LF and 10.75* caster RF, a 15* left turn lifted 66#s from the LR and put 20#s onto the right rear also resulting in 47#s moving to the LF I suppose while a 15* right turn lifted 41#s from the RR and put 41#s on the LR.

      After I made all of the alignment changes, I did the same test again. This time a 15* left turn lifted 32#s from the LR and put 27#s onto the right rear resulting in 5#s moving to the LF I suppose while a 15* right turn lifted 44#s from the RR and put 44#s on the LR.

      Basically basically the changes netted almost zero change in caster jacking on a right hand turn but really cleaned up and evened out the caster jacking on a left hand turn, the differences between the two probably have something to do with the car being so left side heavy. I can't wait to see if the changes help the rear end stick better at all, I kind of have my doubts. I am encouraged that I'll be able to dive into a corner harder and possibly carry more mid turn speed now with the front geometry evened out and better. Tire temps after a few runs will tell the real story though.

      Moral of the whole story though...stop paying other people to do things you can do yourself... Every freaking time it seems like I pay someone else to do something, they screw it up. You'd think I'd know better by now.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    10. #670
      Join Date
      Feb 2012
      Location
      Central NY
      Posts
      240
      Country Flag: United States
      Wow, great write up Lance. Moral of your story, no one cares about you and your car, more than you do. For everyone else, it's just $ in their pocket.

    11. #671
      Join Date
      Jun 2019
      Posts
      5
      Lance, any further impressions on the new 660s? Your initial comments on them weren't very confidence inspiring. How is the cleaned up alignment treating you?

    12. #672
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Pretty fun day at the track even though I didn't get the W. Mike brought his A game for sure.

      https://solo-timing-api.herokuapp.com/results/live

      Still beat quite a few good Vettes and P-cars though which makes me smile.



      Data showed I struggled turning right, several times in earlier runs the car would push hard late in the two right hand sweepers. Not sure what I could have done differently except add a passenger which would be breaking covid protocols. **rolls eyes**

      New parts get here today!!
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    13. #673
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln7 View Post
      Lance, any further impressions on the new 660s? Your initial comments on them weren't very confidence inspiring. How is the cleaned up alignment treating you?
      I'm pretty happy with them, they seem like a great replacement for the RE71s.

      I have about 20 runs on them now and they seem to be holding up very well. I have adjusted my pressures down quite a bit, especially on the rears and they seem to have responded well to that. I am having an issue getting the car to turn in certain situations that is newish...and I'm not totally ruling out the RT660s as a factor in this but otherwise...they are performing very well.

      The car responded well to the alignment changes, those and a driving mod have helped to keep the rear from stepping out on a quick hit of the throttle. I still struggle getting the car to turn with no weight on the front tries, like late in a decreasing radius sweeper. I'm not sure what I can do to correct that though without screwing something else up worse.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    14. #674
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
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      LONG time coming for this...hoping it's the last one I'll ever put in this car...





      I'll try to get it in the car in the next day or so...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    15. #675
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
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      1,758
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      So I have about 250 miles on the new diff and I still love it. Smooth as butter and whisper quiet. The 3.70s seem just about perfect, 80 mph in 6th is 2,000 RPM and 15% throttle...just right.

      I've been street driving it a bunch and still need to do some more, so I decided it was time to tune the AC up a bit. It's been leaking AC oil out of a connection near the Accumulator for over 5 years, but was still blowing pretty cold. Thought we could just change out the O-ring, recharge it and send it...but that was not the case. Turns out the leak was at the hose connection, where the hose meets the fitting...so a decision to redo the hoses was made and in a case of whileImatititis...morphed into this...



      That's a new style condenser that should fit right into the factory mounts with maybe a bit of shimming of some sorts. The in and out ports will go on the pass side, the 180 degree fitting will head back across the front of the condenser to the compressor on the driver side and the bottom fitting will head up to the evaporator.

      There is also new fittings for the Accumulator to compressor line which will go from accumulator, down to in front of the condenser across and back to the compressor. I finally get to get rid of that OEM line that has been stretched across my engine for over 10 years!!!

      Lastly I picked up a threaded port style manifold that will attach the hoses to the back of the sanden compressor with 90 degree fittings which should let me point them toward the fender then run up to alongside the driver side of condenser.



      Thankful for a good friend with an AC service machine in his home shop along with crimping tools and the knowledge to make this all happen. Wish us luck...this upgrade has been a LONG time coming...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    16. #676
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
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      New AC setup is installed and functional... Install was pretty painless, I had to notch out a hole in the lower passenger side of the core support to give room for the 90* fitting coming out of the bottom of the new condenser and we had to reconfigure the upper condenser mounts a bit, but other than that...it all went in as planned.

      Love the new look, no more 36 year old hoses stretched across the engine.



      Took 2# 11oz of freon to get it evened out and cooling down to about 45 degrees.

      Bring on that Phoenix summer heat baby, we are ready for it now!!
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    17. #677
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
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      So just now getting around to recapping the Good Guys event in Scottsdale two weekends ago. It was awesome to be back at an event where everyone felt comfortable being around each other once again and also when my car acted like the car it should be. Had a blast throwing the car around the track, finished 5th in class and 16th overall and made the shootout because a car in front of me had a mechanical issue. Felt like it was just where I needed to be. Here is a video of my fastest run of the weekend.



      All of the changes I made to the car in the past year or so really paid off, the 3.70 gear and Trutrac were perfect for this kind of course and the Falken RT660s are grippy as heck and are holding up like a champ to my torture. Overall I was very happy after the weekends results. The event was a great cap off for my racing season.

      A friend was taking pictures of us on track and i put this gif together from some of his pics. It shows just how hard I could be on the skinny pedal yet the car stayed under me without getting all out of shape. It was a blast...

      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    18. #678
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
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      1,758
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      A good friend of mine just sent me this video of one of my early runs taken from the sidelines at GoodGuys Spring Nats in Scottsdale.

      Thought I'd share a bit different perspective of the car on track with the class...

      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    19. #679
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
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      A good friend of mine is very curious...and has a podcast relating to her curiosities... She followed me around during the Good Guys show a couple of weeks ago filming her adventure.

      Here is the link to the video she made about her day.

      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    20. #680
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
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      So, yesterday started out awesome. Didn't hit one red light on the way to the track then I got this nifty umbrella as an award for winning CAM T last Spring.



      First run was a hot mess, knocked 5 months of rust off though and was ready to show them how it was done on 2nd run.

      Then this happened...



      Pretty non-eventful on course but it did complicate the rest of my day...



      All is good now though, car is on the lift and a plan is being assembled for an upgrade\repair.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

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