Delay Wipers uncovered

[Roberts68]

I found that if you grind off the back of the ball stud (where it is peened over) for the wiper arm connection you can knock out the bigger ball from the newer motor and the smaller ball from the 1st Gen wiper will fit in the hole, then just tack weld the back to hold it in place.

Nice tidbit of advice there! Thanks



Jhunter, is there plenty of shaft length to the Caddy motor to go through a fabbed adapter plate for those wanting to install in the factory location?... on a 1st Gen Camaro that is. I like the hidden idea but am not looking to disassemble that far or "do significant paint", firewall or elsewhere right now.

[JHunter]

From the front face of the mounting lug on the Cadillac motor to the back side of the arm is 3/8". I've seen some posts where guys bend the arm etc to make it fit, but even at 3/8", it gives plenty of room to pass through the sheet metal and connect. For those starting with a fresh canvas of a smooth firewall etc, it should be as easy as drilling 4 holes (3 to mount, one for the shaft). There are two locating lugs on the motor (nipples) that align it in the original mounting bracket - those would probably need to be ground off (or just drill two more holes in the firewall for them to fit in). Also, the motor (the black motor housing) sticks out a little past the mounting lugs (closer to the firewall), so you'd have to use a little standoff which will obviously consume some portion of the 3/8" between the mounting lugs and the inside face of the arm. Its going to take some fab obviously, but for those working on a smooth firewall, especially one that you have access to from the backside, I don't see any need for an additional mounting plate. A foam gasket around the shaft and three washers/standoffs for the mounting lugs should be all you need.

The first picture you can see the straightedge against the motor case (in the background) and where it lines up with the shaft.






But to answer your question - no, I can't see any reason that you'd have to do anything with the shaft to make it work. The arm may have to be adjusted depending on where you put it.
- as a side note, I'm starting to feel uncomfortable - I've said wipe, shaft, nipple and knob more in the last three days than I think is normal.

[gak68]

Thanks again for the picture, went down to the local junkyard today they didn't have a 2000 Deville, but they did have a 98 which used the same 8 pin plug, I bought it for $5 bucks. My wiper motor will be in tomorrow; this is getting exciting. My grand total is gonna be $100 for everything versus $325 for the DSE version and i will have more settings and it will look stock, thanks again for looking into this.

[JHunter]

gak - Did you decide which switch you were going to go with, or is that what you pulled from the 98?

[andrewb70]

Does anyone know what motor might have a recessed "park" position? I have one of the original DSE kits when they didn't have a recessed park version. It would sure be nice to swap in a different motor and keep the rest of the components.

Andrew

[Roberts68]

Not sure about Caddy's offering that Andrew but I have a loaded 2004 Buick Regal that uses a "Park" position.
Your Goat uses this? Am I misunderstanding you? When you say park do you mean park in the sense of the wipers stop consistent in the same spot as they all should or do you mean "tuck" as in the wipers drop out of sight when not in use?

The latter is what my '04 Regal has, and if you want more details, PN # etc just let me know. As I write this I am not certain how similar it is to the Caddy and would expect most modern GM's "tuck" when not in use.

Sorry if I misunderstood and muddied the waters.

[DarkoNova]

DarkNova - I'm striking out on the full function rotary switch.

That's fine, when I read that you'd have to give up some delay functions to get the washer function, I basically said the same thing as you: not worth it.

So I'm basically down for the #1 option with the epoxied switch with unterminated wires.

But I haven't been paying attention (at least to the actual motor part, I've been paying attention to the switch discussion), is this motor basically just a bolt on deal for 1st gen Camaros or is there some fab work involved? It looks like it's thinner than the stock one, but that's probably because the stock one has the washer pump in it.

[JHunter]

Alright gents, I've got enough interest in a switch to start making them. A couple things up front:
1. I can't/won't post the price in the forum, but will send you a PM with the cost.
2. Its only me working on this, so I will make them as fast as life allows and the suppliers send me the parts. I will make and ship them out in the order I receive payment.
3. If you send me money, you will get a working, tested switch. Until there is testimony from people that have used my switch, I know you'll have to take me at my word - but I'm an Eagle Scout and have been in the Army for 17 years, hopefully that gives me some credentials
4. As soon as I'm paid for 5 switches, I will order parts for 10. I want to make sure I'm not going to have a shelf of parts and a lighter wallet without commitment to buy.

Sound fair?

Here's what you get:

When paired up with your wiper motor (2000 Cadillac Deville - AC Delco part number 88958171).

- A new switch which has a Mist setting (20 sec delay), 4 delay settings (8/4/2/1 seconds) and a low and high speed.

- The ability to wire your washer pump to your wiper motor, so that when you use a separate switch to activate your washer pump, the wiper turns on and cleans the windshield - just like modern cars. This feature is not available on any system I am aware of on the market. Using other commercially available systems, the pump and wiper work separately requiring you to hit two buttons to clean your windshield. (See video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ZQDHXG90k&feature=plcp) To be extra clear - this switch will not make your washer work - you will have to install a second switch to do that - but by tying in the supplied green wire to your washers positive terminal/wire, the wiper will work in unison with your washer.

- Switch will be encased in black, non-conductive epoxy. The switch case is approximately 1.6" Wide x 1.8" Deep.

- The option to have the wires depart from the epoxy case from the rear or side. (Indicate your preference when you order. If you want them exiting from the side, they will exit near the end of the epoxy housing)

- 3' of wire, terminated in the correct Metri-Pack terminals (14ga and 20ga wires).
---Red 20ga - Power to switch from an ignition switched, fused source.
---White 20ga - High speed from switch to motor.
---Blue 20ga - Speed input / low speed from switch to motor.
---Yellow 14ga - Power to motor from ignition switched, fused source.
---Black 14ga - Ground to motor.
---Green 20ga - From motor to owner provided washer pump.

- The correct Metri-Pack connector to plug into the wiper motor.

- Wiring diagram, to include how to wire the Metri-pack housing and how to tie into your washer pump (green wire).


Notes:
New from a parts store the wiper motor costs approximately $110, and from a junkyard they can typically be had for $40. This puts your total investment well below the cost of the system currently on the market, and with more functionality.

The mounting shaft of the new switch is 3/8" and the internal stalk is 1/4" (the part the knob mounts too). Most vintage switches have a 1/2" threaded shaft. I may be able to modify the case of your old switch to allow the new switch to fit back in your dash with no additional fabrication. Let me know the year/make/model of your vehicle and I should be able to determine if your old switch's case can be used. If so, you will need to send me your old switch, bezel ring, nut and knob so I can modify it. None of the electrical/mechanical parts of your old switch will be reused. Your old switch will not be returned, whether I am successful or not - so if you have some rare NOS, 1 of 1 wiper switch, don't send it to me. I will return the bezel, nut and knob regardless of my reskinning success. No, I'm not collecting old switches, it will be taken apart to determine if it can be modified - you won't want it back if I'm not successful, trust me. I need the bezel and knob to ensure you have enough stalk to reattach the knob.
If your original switch's stalk is smaller than 1/4", I will NOT drill/bore the knob to fit (I don't want to risk damaging your knob). If you would like me to re-skin your new switch with your old switch's face, I will send you my mailing address. See picture below for reskinning concept. The threaded shaft diameter of your old switch must be 1/2", and the inside stalk can be no larger than 3/8" for this to potentially work.

The switch will not activate a washer pump. Just like the other system on the market, you will have to install another switch to activate the pump. However, unlike the other system, I provide the ability to tap into the washer pump so that the wiper motor cleans the windshield as you activate the washer pump. This way you can clean the windshield without having to work two switches at the same time like the other system.

The mounting of the wiper motor is up to you.

Disclaimer: I am a hobbyist just like you, I just happen to have figured out how to make a 2000 Cadillac wiper motor work in any car. I work out of my garage in my free time, I don't own a shop or have employees. The bottom line - don't sue me if you get tangled up in the wires and fall.

Thanks,

John (JHunter)

Some not-so-great pictures of my first run:



Here is what you get:


I can attempt to reskin the new switch with the face of your old switch (the face of the old switch housing). This should explain it a little better:



Thanks guys -

[andrewb70]

Not sure about Caddy's offering that Andrew but I have a loaded 2004 Buick Regal that uses a "Park" position.
Your Goat uses this? Am I misunderstanding you? When you say park do you mean park in the sense of the wipers stop consistent in the same spot as they all should or do you mean "tuck" as in the wipers drop out of sight when not in use?

The latter is what my '04 Regal has, and if you want more details, PN # etc just let me know. As I write this I am not certain how similar it is to the Caddy and would expect most modern GM's "tuck" when not in use.

Sorry if I misunderstood and muddied the waters.

Robert,

What I mean by "park" is what you refer to as "tuck." The 68-72 GTOs had this feature with the stock wiper system. So when the wiper were ser to Intermittent they would pop out and sweep across the windshield. Once turned off, they would tuck back down.

Andrew

[JHunter]

...is this motor basically just a bolt on deal for 1st gen Camaros or is there some fab work involved? It looks like it's thinner than the stock one, but that's probably because the stock one has the washer pump in it.

Not exactly bolt in. It is thinner however because on the Caddy model the motor is turned 90 degrees whereas our original motors are in line with the shaft that connects to the wiper transmission.
If you want to put it where the original one was, it will take some fab work. The hole in the firewall is too big for the new motor. If you're starting with a flat/smooth firewall (or tucking it under your drivers fender), it shouldn't be too hard. I haven't mounted mine yet - but from looking at the face of the motor and reading others posts, it looks like drilling 4 holes (3 to mount, one for the shaft) and adding some stand-offs / washers between the firewall and motor should work. I haven't really focused on mounting the motor yet, but I'm pretty comfortable that as long as you can reach the back side to tighten the bolts into the motor, it should be possible to do it without a plate. The shaft will get past the firewall, but there's not a lot of room to play with. Either route you go (original or altered), as long as the shafts splines make it past the firewall with a bit of clearance (no scientific term), you can exagerate the S shape of the arm to gain more rotational clearance - make sense at all?

[JHunter]

Robert,

What I mean by "park" is what you refer to as "tuck." The 68-72 GTOs had this feature with the stock wiper system. So when the wiper were ser to Intermittent they would pop out and sweep across the windshield. Once turned off, they would tuck back down.

Andrew

Andrew - The park/tuck feature isn't available on the motor from the Deville. Here's a link to a page that has a picture of the back side of a DSE motor with the park/tuck feature http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...=196384&page=4 (about a 1/3rd of the way down the page). Its a mechanical system that retracts the arms down lower when turned off - can't begin to wrap my mind around how it works.

[gak68]

I got the 8 pin metripak plug off the deville, tomorrow I am supposed my parts are supposed to come in to see about that switch.

[JHunter]

Little update - PMs have been sent to those that expressed interest. If I get 5 payments I'll order the parts to make 10 switches.

My non-standard tap should be in tomorrow so I can reskin my switch with the face from my original Camaro switch and confirm the concept.

[Roberts68]

Robert,

What I mean by "park" is what you refer to as "tuck." The 68-72 GTOs had this feature with the stock wiper system. So when the wiper were ser to Intermittent they would pop out and sweep across the windshield. Once turned off, they would tuck back down.

Andrew

I looked at my '04 Regal and unfortunately the wiper motor is hidden from direct line of sight... likely under the cowl. I wish I could have been more help without... well, being more help. :P I really didn't want to take anything apart. I just figured GM likely has some of their parts standardized so I threw that in there.

Perhaps some Search-Fu on my part would have been prudent before just tossing that out there. I was unaware that "hidden wipers" even went back that far.

[JHunter]

Reskinned my switch tonight. Works perfect - the original bezel mates up, the dashboard sees the switch as if it was the original switch and there's enough stalk to attach the knob.

Parts laid out


Switch reskinned


Bezel on the reskinned switch



Bezel nut attached


Knob attached (mine is bent)

[arue333]

Can you put me down for a switch?

[Roberts68]

That looks fantastic! Great workmanship, pictures and description.

Oh, and congrats on earning your Eagle. My son is a Webolos, we are enjoying Scouting together.

[JHunter]

Thomas - PM sent

Robert - Thanks. It was a challenge (Eagle) to stay with it as I got older, but it paid off. I'm guessing that you have a house full of Boy Scout popcorn right now lol.
I was stoked that the reskin worked out like I hoped it would.

[CKreations]

What an awesome job. Thanks for taking on such a cool project!

[JHunter]

Thanks CK, this has been fun. I'm still kinda amazed that I was able to crack the code & end up with extra functionality. Now if I could just get my fenders aligned lol