Delay Wipers uncovered

[Blown73]

Neat writeup!



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[JHunter]

You mentioned $700 minimum, if you end up doing some sort of group buy please be sure to drop me a line. I miss a lot of content on the forums but I would be pretty interested. Back when I drove my car the wipers had failed so that is on the "to do" list. Like everything else I hope to make it better than new if I have to mess with it.

Rob - I'm more than willing to make up a batch. I'd say if 5 (or more) want me to make a switch I could. I'd have to work a price (and do it via PM, don't want to get blasted for hocking things), but I don't think it would be too high. If others would like one, let me know. If you don't mind - what would the switch be worth to you? I know that's kind of backwards, I'm not trying to get rich off of this. Basically I'd need to know if I'd pull things from my stock (like wire etc) or if Id be able to buy materials (beyond the switch obviously) like a couple spools of wire etc. And, yea, I'd have to add something for my time - I'm in the Army and thats a full time job, so its not like I have a factory floor ready to go into production lol.

I could do the switch ready to go, but you'd have to buy the wiper motor (junkyard is about $30). Also, keep in mind that mounting the motor will take fab work. I plan on putting mine under the fender so Its as "simple" as cutting a hole, but if you want it in the stock position (talking 1st gen Camaro here) then you'd have to come up with a solution.

Something else I just discovered, the thread pitch on the first gen Camaro's bezel is an odd 1/2 28 - so while you could use the original knob, I'm trying to find a bezel (or sleeve) that would allow you to use the original bezel. The shaft diameter of the new switch is 3/8. Anyway, just food for thought.

Edit: Oh, and the $700 minimum was for a switch with a momentary first position so you could hook up the washer feature. I can get more of the type of switch I used with no minimum.

[DarkoNova]

Nice!

Most of my job is soldering so this seems like something I can definitely do. And I'm like you, the only reason I haven't bought a multi-speed "kit" from anyone is because they all say you lose the washer function. Granted, I rarely even use it, I'm just OCD enough to want every single thing on my car working as it should. I also don't want a separate button to use for the washer function. I basically gave up looking for a switch that would do everything I need, so if you can find one, that would be awesome.

[JHunter]

Matt - Thanks. I think I found a company that makes the switch we need for the washer function, but I have to call the factory this week. It's a spring rotary switch, so as long as they don't have a crazy minimum order or a special run then we might be in luck.

[gak68]

Just a random question. I don't have many junkyards around here, so I was just going to by a rebuilt wiper motor from my parts store, could you put up a pic of the male weatherpak? I could see what I needed to order. Oh and if you do find a switch and there is a minimum order count me in.

[Roberts68]

First of all, let me say THANKS for your service to our Country!

Something else I just discovered, the thread pitch on the first gen Camaro's bezel is an odd 1/2 28 - so while you could use the original knob, I'm trying to find a bezel (or sleeve) that would allow you to use the original bezel. The shaft diameter of the new switch is 3/8. Anyway, just food for thought.

Edit: Oh, and the $700 minimum was for a switch with a momentary first position so you could hook up the washer feature. I can get more of the type of switch I used with no minimum.

Most of my job is soldering so this seems like something I can definitely do....I basically gave up looking for a switch that would do everything I need, so if you can find one, that would be awesome.

2 but perhaps he wants to make his own. Perhaps he wants materials only?

... if you do find a switch and there is a minimum order count me in.

3

I am not speaking for anyone, just running a little tally that could possibly be revised and moved to a different thread if this does evolve into a co-op effort or "group buy" of sorts. I left out the number one as, well... that would be ME! Not often I get to have a "great idea" and be "#1" in the same thread!!

As for putting a value on your switch that is a tough call. Without knowing a material cost it is tough to name a pricepoint without potentially insulting your investment of time and your talents. I am open to discussion via PM as you requested.

I may have a connection for the bezel or sleeve you mentioned if you can give me precise specs... but it could be slow. I would need specific threads on ID, OD and a length... anything else you can think of to see if it is possible first of all, then an end-all quantity because it will likely be a single batch. It may be a "favor" sort of deal so I could not very easily go back for onesie-twosies. A favor would be to our benefit as it is not generally cheap to do custom precision machining of one-offs.

[XLexusTech]

IN for a switch already have a junk yard motor)

[JHunter]

Robert - Thank you for your support and for helping out on this venture.

The sleeve would need to be 3/8-32 inside and 1/2-28 on the outside, both of those are non-standard threads. However, I just had a "eureka" moment. By using the case of the old switch (removing the shaft and internal components) and threading the inside of the shaft to 3/8-32 and doing some other work, it will accept the original bezel, use the original cast locating tabs and accommodate the switch's anti-rotation tab. A little confusing written out - but for those that have a first gen Camaro/Firebird I could make the new switch fit using a portion of the old switch (no electrical parts, just a portion of the housing). I'd cut off the barrel portion of the old switch, so it would resemble a washer with a threaded shaft and locating tabs (blue and orange portion in the picture below).
Its like slipping a dead calf's hide on an orphan calf so momma accepts it - lol, thats my farm reference.



Basically you'd end up with something that looked like a washer with a shaft on it - the 'washer' portion would have the lugs (orange) and the shaft (blue/red). Thread that over the new switches shaft (3/8-32) and use some thread lock and you have a new switch with an old face.




Gak68 - The switch is a Metri-Pack 280 part number 12176335. I've found a supplier for the housing, I just need to track down the gasket and terminals (not hard, just haven't done it yet). Here's a picture:




Lexus - Ok, I'll add you to the list. Thanks

[JHunter]

Ok, as it stands, this is how I see the options if people want this setup:

1. Switch with mist/delay(4)/low/high with un-terminated wires encased in epoxy. This would be for those that want to splice it into their own pigtail from the junkyard or do their own thing. This is what I will be doing as I'm going to install a new bulkhead connector, so the wires will go to the bulkhead from the switch, then 'start again' on the engine side and go to the wipers plug.

2. Switch (same as above) with wires terminated but not inserted into the plug so you can pass the wires through a new hole in your firewall. I could source the plug so all you do is insert the terminated wires into the plug.

3. IF I can source a switch with a momentary first position you could have the same setup as 1 or 2, but the settings would be washer (momentary) / off / mist / delay (4) / low / high. I know there's one person (DarkoNova) holding out for that switch - and its what I would prefer as well. It just may be cost prohibitive. If I find that switch, then I'd send them all out that way. Again, the motor doesn't have a pump, but from a single switch you could operate a seperate pump that you source, but the switch would tell the pump and the wiper motor to activate in unison (see video).

If there's consensus between those options then I could run some costs and PM those that are interested in me making one up. If you just want the parts to make your own, I think I've listed out all the part numbers so far, but let me know if I've missed something. So far I've focused on 1st gen Camaros/Firebirds. This same switch works on any car you want to put the modern wiper motor in - but if its not a 1st gen Camaro, you'd just get the switch (either option) that has a 3/8 shaft. If you want me to make it fit a 1st gen Camaro/Firebird, you could send me your original switch so I can modify the housing (described in last post) or add ~$35.oo for a new switch to the cost (thats what Classic sells them for). It'd be smart to just send me the old switch since all I'd use is the shaft/case and $35 is a bit much to spend on a new switch that will be gutted - in my opinion anyway.

I'll figure out what length of wire would accommodate putting the wiper in its original location or hidden under a fender, and based on which option (1 or 2 above) give some extra length so you can do what you want to.

Right now I'm tracking that Robert, Gak68 and XLexustech are in - just let me know which option you'd like and if we have consensus I'll work the numbers.
One last thing (for now, sorry I know I'm wordy lol) - getting this together will take a bit, it took two weeks just to get my switch from the manufacturer - and like yall I'm sure, life gets in the way, so this won't be an overnight drop ship to your door kinda thing, but as soon as I have the parts in hand I'll start cranking them out. That's why I'd like to get a feel for how many to order so it won't take forever to get all the parts together.

[Roberts68]

Okay, I would be willing to sacrifice my switch, no problem. Nice discovery there!
Also; these new switched you have sourced... Do they accept the OEM style of knob? I have not looked at mine in a long while to see how it is attached.

My first preference would be to keep the washer within the wiper switch. Lots of ways to do a hidden switch for a washer pump but it seems worth it if it is all packaged.

Would you be cool with opening up the group anywhere else? Do you prefer a handful such as thus far? A fixed number like 5, 10 or?

I am in no rush, I have not driven my Camaro since '04! Prior to that Birthday was '97! Believe me, I know all about life getting in the way.

[JHunter]

I'm good with opening up to other groups, matter of fact I posted the same thing on Team Camaro, but little interest over there (more resto, less resto-mod crowd). I haven't done anything with other sites, Lat G might be a good one, but I don't frequent that site, so I don't want to come across the wrong way.

I'll shoot for a batch of 5 unless more folks jump on. I'm good making as many as are wanted, no real cap to it. I'd go with 10, but I don't want to get stuck with money tied up and no one wanting them. But if 20 people want them, I'll make 20. If only 3 want one then at least I won't have a ton of money tied up collecting dust. I'll do the numbers later tonight and see what the cost would be for 5 and PM those that have shown interest so far. Hopefully tomorrow the factory is open and I can see if they still make the momentary switch I'm after, if so I'll factor that price in (if its different) and send out an update.

As for the original knob, it will fit, you just have to drill it out to 1/4 inch. It's about 13/64 originally. Both old and new attach with a set screw on a flat side of the shaft.

I'm with you on not driving it in a while. I bought mine in '03 after deployment and have never (legally) driven it lol. Between deployments and moves its been a very long term project. I'm doing panel work now, maybe soon I'll get to the blocking stage.

[Thumpin'66]

I am interested, that is if the wiper motor will work in my 66 Chevelle.
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[JHunter]

Thumpin - From a quick search to see what kind of wiper switch you have, it will work. Basically any car that uses (or wants to I suppose) a rotary switch can use it. The shaft diameter is 3/8, and I'm assuming your stock switch has a diameter of 1/2. Again, just looking at some google images of your switch, might be able to do the same mod - tap the inside of your original switch's shaft and use the face of it to skin the new switch - that way the original locating tabs stay in place. The length of the new switch's shaft looks long enough to still have room to attach the factory knob. The selector shaft (the one the knob attaches to) is 1/4 with a flat.

The mounting of the actual wiper motor will take some fab - and that part I can't really help with (except that when I get to mounting mine under the fender, I'll post some pics)
I wrote your name down, and as soon as I come up with a price I'll shoot you a PM. Thanks

[JHunter]

UPDATE - I've pretty much given up on the below idea - the idea of having a washer function in the switch at the cost of most of the delays is not appealing. If I do find a momentary switch that works and retains all delay functions I'll post an update.

Alright - found a momentary switch (good news), but it has an 8 week lead time and only has 6 positions (bad news). To benefit from all the delay/mist options the motor can support, you need a minimum of 8 positions. On the switch with the momentary option, 4 of the 6 positions will be used for: Washer / Off / Low / High. That gives 2 open positions to pick which delay you want: Mist (20 second pause), Delay 1 (8 second pause), Delay 2 (4 second pause), Delay 3 (2 second pause) and Delay 4 (1 second pause).

Maybe I'm already spoiled, but I'm thinking the idea of having a washer function at the sacrifice of some of the delay positions is not really worth it. If I used the momentary switch I'd probably go with Delay 2 and Delay 4.
For me, personally, I think I'm just going to mount a small push button switch (the one I used in the video) under the lip of the dash to work the washer. Again, you can tie into the motor (gray wire) so that when you use the washer through a separate switch, the motor spins between 5 and 2 times (depending on how long you've sprayed the washer determines how many 'clean up' wipes the motor makes). So I'd have all the wiper delay options available, and as often as I use my washer (not often even in my truck), I'd just reach down a little to push the washer function.

I'm still finding the best prices for everything - but keeping in mind the 8 week lead time, when I PM those that are interested, if you want the momentary switch let me know which 2 delay options you want. You can see the little chart below to help: the top one is what you get with the momentary switch, the bottom is what the "standard" switch will have (the one I've been working with). Basically you can fill in the gray/blank spot in the first portion with an option from the gray portion below. Sorry, I'm a visual guy and did this so I could kinda see how it would work.

[makoshark]

I would be interested in this as well. However, I really do not care for having the washer option on my car. I prefer to use RainX and clean the windshield the old fashion way By hand

[rossmacd]

Count me in for a switch. I'd take either with or without the washer function. No big deal either way. I'd love to save the time it would take to make my own, and my soldering skills aren't exactly awesome.

[JHunter]

Mako and Ross - I've got you on the list. I should be sending out a PM tomorrow (or today, since for some reason its 3 am and I'm still up).

Thanks guys

[regal454]

Count me in, and the washer function is not as important to me either. My windshield will never be that dirty, I would just like to have working wipers in case I'm ever caught in the rain.

[JHunter]

I've got you down Marc.

Right now I'm showing the following members would like a switch: Roberts68, rege454, XLexus, gak68, makoshark and rossmacd and a 'maybe' from Thumpin'66.

DarkNova - I'm striking out on the full function rotary switch.

[ccmc]

This is perfect timing. I just installed an S10 non-delay motor but had to use a SPDT on-off-on switch with two relays to make it work. I've been playing with the 85-90 ish gm wiper motor with the 5 wire square connector and I assume I can make it work with this wiring too. very similar. Though I have found different length output shafts. It looks like an astro van motor has a shaft long enough for an adapter plate. My 69 Camaro has a rectangular opening so I could go with a rotary knob and a momentary push button for the washer. Can you post a schematic with a push button wired in too?

I found that if you grind off the back of the ball stud (where it is peened over) for the wiper arm connection you can knock out the bigger ball from the newer motor and the smaller ball from the 1st Gen wiper will fit in the hole, then just tack weld the back to hold it in place.