Project Demon Spawn: the rebirth of my 70' Duster-efi, 408ci, t56, dana 60

[ALLstrokedOUT]

A bit more progress: the intake is on the engine (everything looks really clean inside, although the engine is only 25,000mi.), injectors are in, all of the wiring is done that needs to be done to start the engine too. I started on the last AN fittings/hoses that need to be made up. I ran into a bit of a problem with the throttle body, part of its linkage hits the intake elbow, Im going to order a new aftermarket, true 90mm throttle body to fix this problem.

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...Like i said on my last post the throttle bodies idle set/throttle stop 'tab' was hitting the side of the TB elbow. There was no way to cleanly or easily modify either of the two to fix it, so i got a cheap 90mm throttle body to replace it (i wanted to swap to this TB eventually anyways). Everything looks like it should just be a bolt in fix. Im heading down tomorrow, and hope to get everything attached to the engine. all thats left to do is to...
fab some 'temporary' injector rail tie-downs
install TB
make the braided cross over hose between the fuel rails
plug the injectors in, zip-tie all wires (everything is wired now)
plug in MS2 box and hope everythings wired correctly
add fluids and crank...

[dusterbd13]

mmmmm....... efi goodness.......

looking good man. good luck on fiirst fire. and looking forward to how you do your hold downs. im still slowly working on mine.....

michael

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Thanks michael,
I hit another snag..still the throttle body, the new one is so much bigger than the stock q45 that its flange and the bolt pattern will not work. The ebay TB came with a flange, so i will be cutting it appart this weekend, and either welding it up sunday or next time im down here.

One of the clips on my injectors was cracked so i need to replace it. Im also swapping IAT sensors, the one i originally had was huge; i bought a small 97-01 saturn sensor that will easily thread into my intake elbow (so i need to swap the plug for it too).

My injector tie-downs will be two pieces of strap steel on each side going from the bolts on the 'carb plate' out to the fuel rails where it will make a 90deg down and run along the fuel rails-ill be making them tomorrow, so ill be sure to take some pictures. I think they will be permanant, there isnt much room to tig any aluminum tabs to the intake...

So to sum up a crap day, no car starting this weekend BUT i should be able to energize the system, check the sensors, check for fuel leaks, and if all goes well next weekend its startup time...

[Wheel Werkes]

Nice project man! Looking forward to seeing the next new updates!

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Thanks!
I got a lot done that doesnt transfer well to the computer. I ended up making a 1/4" spacer and going with the old nissan throttle body for now..maybe even drive around with it for a while depending on how long it takes me to redesign the the elbow for the new TB.
I got everything hooked up and turned the key-no fuel leaks BUT when i crank the engine over im not getting a signal from the distributor. Everythings wired and configured correctly, im starting to think its the dist. module that went bad...

Close up of injector tie-downs, tacked into place to get angles all correct:

Please excuse the ugly throttle body, it cant even fit a filter on it its so long w/ the huge radiator hose that i am not a fan of either...

[dusterbd13]

retty much what i was thinking for my fuel rail hold downs.
and now you see why im holding out for a 4bbl flange style throttle body.

michael

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Yea, the hold downs are out of the way, simple, and plenty strong for what forces itll be subjected to. Yea, i see why you want a 4bbl flange TB...i should be able to clear everything with the new TB, maybe a 45degree angles thermostat housing. MadDart (FABO) has the same identical new TB as i bought, and a similar intake setup and everything seems to be ok with his. i am thinking of tigging the new carb elbow to face the TB vertical. That will of course be at least after i get the demon idling/moving.

After a bit of research it seems like the Mallory Unilite output mimics the type of signal put out by a points ignition, not an optical sensor like it physically is. Im in the process of seeing what parameters i might need to change, possibly wiring as well (addition of resistors, another 12v wire, etc...)

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No new updates really, still not getting a signal to the MS from the mallory Unilite...The unilite module works (tried it in my dads 68 roadrunner) ive isolated the Unilite so it is just a switched 12v, a ground, and i am probing the signal wire with a multimeter-I am getting nothing...my only idea is that my ground is 'loose' - missing some of the wire strands came out of the crimp so it cant handle the current, thats all i can think of.

I moved some things around in our shop, we got 3lbs of aluminum filler rod and a new argon tank, ill be playing with that tomorrow and will be trying to see why im not getting a signal in the demon, but am in the roadrunner.

[SPDMETL]

When you added the injector bungs, what angle are they set to?

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Injector bungs should be set more or less to vertical. After ten months, the demon finally cranked over and is running...the tables arent anywhere near where they need to be (if you move the throttle even 1% it studders, idling will eventually stumble and die...) but its progress, and should only be a learning curve of the MS/ Tunerstudio software. Heres a short video, i realized there was a small fuel leak just as the engine died (loose AN fitting).

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Got to use our new tig welder for the new 90mm throttle body. That turned out pretty nice. But to put the brakes on my progress i have somehow lost spark to the engine, im getting a signal from the distributor, but no signal to the coil...im getting 12v at the coil with the ignition on, but while cranking it goes down (why i have no idea; i havnt changed anything from last weekend when it actually cranked over.

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...still can't get the thing to do more than a couple revs before dying, im getting spark now but the timing is fluctuating +/- 30 degrees. I hate throwing parts at something and putting off problems, but I purchased a crank trigger to run the efi off of. I plan on running the efi as a stand alone system for now, with the ignition as it ran (flawlessly) in the duster. Once everything's up and running, and my next projects done (cummins kaiser as my permanent daily driver) then I will convert ignition over to individual coil system controlled by MS..updates in the weekend when I get my hands on it..hope this does it

[dusterbd13]

and now you see why im using a lean burn dist converted to hei style ignition control and GM electronics. id rather stick with tried and true instead of custom and one off. just seems to go easier and cheaper adapting known quanitities.

[ryeguy2006a]

Nice progress. There are so many varaiables with the EFI systems, but from what I read it is something you just need to keep plugging away at. Eventually your tables will get to be where you want them. Have you gone onto the MS forums and searched for someone that has a similar build as you and using their tables to get your car up and running?

[dusterbd13]

sorry if i sounded like i was knocking you earlier, tim. i understand how frustarting it can be, and personally try to avoid it these days. i wish you the best with the diagnosis and repair.

again, i want trying to be a jerk, and i apologize if it sounded that way.

michael

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Not a problem michael, i get where you were coming from, and i agree. Usually i try to get things that can be bought at a chain automotive store in a pinch (Bosch fuel pump, all stock GM sensors, nissan TPS...) I will say this though: with my distributor (and this new crank sensor: optical-that is set to mimic points signals, and hall effect sensors ) there are a lot fewer wires to worry about when compared to HEI -just 12v, ground, and the signal wire that goes to the MS. Its not the input thats my issue currently- its the output, which i have reason to believe is caused by the Hyfire 6AL box and the MS settings. Ive tried it without the Hyfire, but im still not getting much luck.

Its hard for me to justify the crank sensor other than that i difinitively want to rule out the ignition as being a cause for why the engine wont run...Its only $70 and in the end it will be a better system.

Ive had our neighborhood dyno shop stop by and he sees nothing wrong with my setting to where it shouldnt be able to idle, so that further leads me to believe that its the ignition...at this point i sure hope it is haha

[ryeguy2006a]

Just a thought, but have you just tried a distributor without an ignition box? I know that you want to control your ignition, but it may be easier to just have a stand alone distributor with vacuum advance rather than further complicate things with electronic ignition controls.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Just a thought, but have you just tried a distributor without an ignition box? I know that you want to control your ignition, but it may be easier to just have a stand alone distributor with vacuum advance rather than further complicate things with electronic ignition controls.

Thats exactly the point of the crank trigger: to make two independant systems for now to uncomplicate things. Stand alone efi with the ignition setup identically to how it worked for 25,000+ miles in the duster (and a lot more in my dads roadrunner w/ the same setup).

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After all this time, work, money, and effort im beyond ashamed and emmbarrased to admit it, but im going to be putting the carberetor onto the engine this friday. Ive been messing around with it too much, with little to show. I got the crank sensor to work saturday night, but sunday morning it was sending erratic signals for reasons unknown. The Unilite in the distributor also took a crap (likely physical damage when switching distributors out) even the Stim (used to test the MS II board) doesnt work. The MS still seems to be working great, i just cant figure out my input signal issues in a timely manner. And since the demon will be my daily driver for 400+ mi/wk i cant afford to run anything that is unreliable.

So i will be dropping the fuel pressure down to carb-friendly levels, putting the carb setup onto the demon, and running it this way until my 1968 Kaiser Gladiator is finished (cummins 4x4 6spd swap). The kaiser will become my daily drive, with 37" tires, on board air system, and some other fun things that will suite my future career needs better than a muscle car with 3.5" of ground clearance...While the kaiser is being built i will also be bench testing the MS so that it will be ready to be bolted onto the demon when its time comes (hopefully before winter ends).