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  1. #1
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    Battery and cable layout

    Attached is a sketch of a planned layout (68 camaro, battery in trunk, LS motor)

    What am I missing? Anything on here in correct? Want to get items ordered soon but wanted to confirm and make sure I'm not missing anything. Should I put any fuses in? If so where?

    Thanks in advance.Attachment 49125



  2. #2
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    I would also run a ground cable to the motor, motor to subframe, and motor to body. you can never have too many grounds.


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  3. #3
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    A ford style solenoid at the battery so the starter cable is dead except at start. I agree on additional ground cable to the drive train. I'm scared of fire so I'd fuse the charge wire at the battery and a fuse or link at the alt. But I'm paranoid.

    Are you worried about passing tech at a drag strip?
    Scott from NJ.

    Vent Windows Forever! ... My junk, featuring the Red Dragon ... NastyZ28 ... NJ Camaros & Firebirds

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
    A ford style solenoid at the battery so the starter cable is dead except at start. I agree on additional ground cable to the drive train. I'm scared of fire so I'd fuse the charge wire at the battery and a fuse or link at the alt. But I'm paranoid.

    Are you worried about passing tech at a drag strip?
    +1 on everything here. Ford solenoids are cheap insurance for that heavy circuit. You can't have too many ground cables, Maxifuses or fuse links at the battery are essential if it's trunk mounted. I'd add a couple bus bars for connecting grounds under the dash and maybe in the back.

    Also, add charging studs AND A CUTOFF SWITCH!!!! I don't care if it's externally mounted if you don't need to pass NHRA/IHRA tech, but you'll thank yourself later when you're working on the car.
    '66 GTO Vert Project "Red Ink", 462ci of stroked pontiac power, TKO600, SC&C Stg II+, Tubular lowers, Currectrac Rear suspension, Moser 12bolt w/Truetrack, Wilwood Master and discs all around, too much fun for words...

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  6. #6
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    Not worried about passing tech, just considering putting battery in back and want to do it right. But if it's to much of a fiaco and overwelming then I'll just stick it right back up front. I am no wiring guru...hate it actually. It seems the more I dig into this the more expense and intricate it's getting.

    What are the charging studs?? So an 80 amp in the charging wire (8 awg)?

    Kinda familer with what the solenoid is, does both the starter cable and charge cable get hooked into it?

  7. #7
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    ok... think I'm going to start out with this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQ...KQ3aMEWAXQ3aIT

    from here I'll add a solenoid and quick shut off. Anybody see any issues here?

    If I run a negative back to the motor also, what gage does it need to be? Also, will the battery charge by running the 8 awg wire from the alternator to the positive on the starter? Or does it have to go directly from Alt to battery?

    If I was to go with a optima battery, which battery should I go with?
    Last edited by BuddyP; 09-07-2011 at 09:12 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyP View Post
    Not worried about passing tech, just considering putting battery in back and want to do it right. But if it's to much of a fiaco and overwelming then I'll just stick it right back up front. I am no wiring guru...hate it actually. It seems the more I dig into this the more expense and intricate it's getting.

    What are the charging studs?? So an 80 amp in the charging wire (8 awg)?

    Kinda familer with what the solenoid is, does both the starter cable and charge cable get hooked into it?
    It's not a big deal to do this. Just do your research, think it through. The mechanics of doing it are not difficult.

    Charging studs are exposed studs with removable caps that you can mount to allow connections for battery charger and/or jumper cables without opening the battery box, or in my case, without taking apart the trunk upholstery since my trunk is upholstered.

    The solenoid makes it so that the heavy amperage/load cable going from the battery to the starter is ONLY live when the starter is engaged. That is IMHO very important, as you will now have that heavy, hot cable going through your car from back to front. If it gets frayed, insulation melted, etc, you could have a safety issue. The solenoid will prevent any issues any time the key is not in the temporary "start" position. Well worth the effort. It has nothing to do with the charging wire from the battery to the alternator.

    Can't speak for the kit you referenced. It doesn't state the wire gauge. Don't know the dimensions of the box. Fits "most batteries" isn't precise enough for me but it may be fine. I'm personally partial to optima red top batteries for our use.
    '66 GTO Vert Project "Red Ink", 462ci of stroked pontiac power, TKO600, SC&C Stg II+, Tubular lowers, Currectrac Rear suspension, Moser 12bolt w/Truetrack, Wilwood Master and discs all around, too much fun for words...

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the info, been a great help. Am looking at a optima battery tray now. Saw you run at gingerman and autobahn, wish i would've looked closer at your battery setup!

    Which red top battery are you running?

  10. #10
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    Working on the same thing myself. One idea if you are going to use a sealed optima battery, you don't really need a sealed container.

    What I went with a was Billet Specialties tray:


    I ran 0000 awg cables for the Starter and Main ground, used 2awg for the main B+ line. Probably overkill on the gauge size but wanted minimal voltage drop to the starter for a high compression big block. Also used the Mad Electrical Ford Solenoid mounted with a Flaming River cutoff switch:


    along with a 150amp fuse block for the B+ line:


    and a smaller fuse block (from AAW) for fuel pump and keep alive circuits. Tied the rear ground to the rear frame rail and the body:


    Then up front made a single grounding point for the cylinder heads, engine block, frame and body (attached to the frame).


    (Works in progress, not final routed yet)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyP View Post
    Thanks for the info, been a great help. Am looking at a optima battery tray now. Saw you run at gingerman and autobahn, wish i would've looked closer at your battery setup!

    Which red top battery are you running?
    I'm using http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ULT-9004-003/
    '66 GTO Vert Project "Red Ink", 462ci of stroked pontiac power, TKO600, SC&C Stg II+, Tubular lowers, Currectrac Rear suspension, Moser 12bolt w/Truetrack, Wilwood Master and discs all around, too much fun for words...

  12. #12
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    Also want to verify that I'll be ok with 2 awg wire from battery to starter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyP View Post
    Also want to verify that I'll be ok with 2 awg wire from battery to starter.
    I wouldn't use it, but..... I used all mainly 1/0
    '66 GTO Vert Project "Red Ink", 462ci of stroked pontiac power, TKO600, SC&C Stg II+, Tubular lowers, Currectrac Rear suspension, Moser 12bolt w/Truetrack, Wilwood Master and discs all around, too much fun for words...

  14. #14
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    Mmmm I've noticed that most battery relocation kits on the market come with 2 awg cables?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyP View Post
    Mmmm I've noticed that most battery relocation kits on the market come with 2 awg cables?
    What you need to worry about is the Voltage drop over about 10-12 feet by having the battery in the trunk.
    2 awg cables, will lose about 2volts (12 feet given a 600 cranking amps but depending on distance and start cranking amps). 1/0 will drop about 1.4v and 4/0 about 0.7v. Drop too much and you will have weak or no cranking at the starter, especially on hot days.

    Not to mention 2 awg cable is only rated to about 130a, I wouldn't want to be cranking alot or that cable will get *hot*. 1/0 is about double the price of 2 awg and 4/0 doubles it again (to about $9-10/ft).

    Here is a good site for wire rating and for calculating the voltage drop:
    http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

    I got my battery cable from these guys (fairly reasonable prices especially on the good fine stranded marine cable), also they will make you custom length cables for $1 an end if you buy all the stuff from them:
    http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%...ttery%20Cable/

    Hope this helps.

  16. #16
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    Ed, great link. It's exactly what I was concerned about. A good friend of mine is an electrical engineer and he was the maintstay of my overall wiring. He said nothing less than 1/0, and that's what I did. Also, nice link on the cable supplies. Thanks!
    '66 GTO Vert Project "Red Ink", 462ci of stroked pontiac power, TKO600, SC&C Stg II+, Tubular lowers, Currectrac Rear suspension, Moser 12bolt w/Truetrack, Wilwood Master and discs all around, too much fun for words...

  17. #17
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    Glad I could help, wracked my brain when I was trying to piece this together.

  18. #18
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    Also avoid "welding cable" the heavy-thick strand stuff for arc welding cables. It will get hot and when formed can kink/break much more easily that fine stranded cable. You can get decent "car audio" type 1/0 or 0/1 on ebay for $2-$4/ft.

    The trick with the pre-made kits is that they cheap out on welding cable for the long runs and that is where you will have higher losses that the voltage drops listed above.

    I did an experiment a year or so ago. I took my 220v mega-ancient arc/stick welder and made brand new cables:

    First using traditional welding 1/0 cable. When at 60% cycle I had one of the cables accidently laying across my ankle. It left a 2nd degree burn on my skin. also I couldn't handle the cable with a mechanic's gloved hand for several seconds.

    Next I used some average, find strand Car audio 1/0. Same identical O.D. but looking at the strand structure you can tell it has less outer coating and more actual wire. Same test. I could more the cable with my bare hand. It was still VERY warm to the touch, but not searing into my skin.

    Personally I would run 1/0 for the back to front main run to a junction, with circuit breaker at the battery side. Then a 0/1 to the starter, separately breakered.

    I have built many systems over the years and I have typically saved $$ versus the performance gain over the "kits". I buy my optima mounting brackets, circuit breakers, wire, cable ends, etc mainly on eBay. just easier to get exactly what you want for your install.

    here are some links to places to buy:

    circuit Breakers:
    http://stores.ebay.com/Bag-Boy-Home-...&_sid=14969603

    1/0 0 gauge
    http://stores.ebay.com/Bag-Boy-Home-...=p4634.c0.m322

    www.darvex.com Trail is the guy's name. He is a GREAT guy. Fellow enthusiast. He's in arkansas, so semi-central location. ships same day... bag-boy on ebay is Darvex.

    But you can find (2) packs of circuit breakers on ebay for $25.

    Lastly, I would say this: as a Certified Car Audio Installer and wiring street rods and muscle cars for 20+ years... the flexibility ALONE of fine strand wire is worth the $1-2/ft difference in price. Working with welding cable in a car is a pain in the butt getting it tucked into corners, around edges etc.

    Rob

  19. #19
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    Just as a note to add . Not all welding cable is the same, I have 2/0 welding cable that is very fine strand, the strands are as fine as your hair and the cable bends very easily for its size. my voltage drop from the back to the front is less than 1 volt in 15'.

    I got my welding cable from Genuinedealzs at a very good price.
    May The Horsepower Be With You !!!

  20. #20
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    Its all in where you buy it. Most of the audio stuff I have run across, especially no-name stuff, is crap...and its usually some God awful color, too. The welding cable I buy from my local supplier is very thin strand, has a lot of copper in it, and is very flexible. It also has a more durable coating on it than battery cable.
    Joe Hinds

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