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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    IN/MI border
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    Ok, so since I have a solenoid AND fuel injection, should I be ditching the solenoid or will a breaker/fuse take care of the issue? Or depending on how it's wired will I not have an issue?



    Quote Originally Posted by vcho455 View Post
    Revised:
    Did some serching and reading..not sure if you are going carbed or efi on your set up but read the warning on jegs site for the ford style starter solenoid:

    WARNING! This solenoid DOES NOT use suppression diodes. Use of this solenoid on vehicles with Engine Control Computers will result in permanent damage to the computer/processor.

    as seen here...
    http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...10308/10002/-1
    Im not a wiring guy and am not sure what this means. Being that I am going efi and will have a computer can someone explain this in layman's terms.

    The layman's definition is: A solenoid is made up of a coil of wire and an armature. The armature is a piece of iron that moves as a result of the magnetic field the coil makes when energized. The movement of the armature operates the switch part of the solenoid. Its just a big relay. The problem comes when the solenoid is de-energized and the movement of the armature past the coil can produce a voltage spike which is seen in all the connected wiring and if the spike is large enough it can affect adjacent wires. The spike that is created will be AC voltage and most automotive electronics have no protection from AC voltage and as result are damaged. The suppression diodes are designed to control this voltage.


  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    IN/MI border
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04ctd View Post
    Buddy, relax & think about it slow.

    you have three circuits basically:

    -the starter lead (solenoid protected at back)
    -the battery charging lead (from alternator, only needs smaller AWG since it is only trickle charging the battery)
    -shut off switch (keeps B+ from being applied to the vehicle when you want to do maintenance, so you don't wear out battery clamps.


    you need to take Amargari's picture, print it out, and take his alternator lead off the maxi fuse, and onto the "ON" side of the cut out/shut off switch,
    and then, i think you will understand it better.

    think of water flowing around the wires:
    -big power to crank
    -small flow to charge
    -no flow to do maintenance.
    I just ran 10 awg from alternator to battery, is that size sufficient for trickle?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Country Flag: United States
    Does this help? I didn't realize this would be necessary. Glad I started reading this thread.

    http://www.suregripcontrols.com/install_suppress.htm




    Quote Originally Posted by vcho455 View Post
    Revised:
    Did some serching and reading..not sure if you are going carbed or efi on your set up but read the warning on jegs site for the ford style starter solenoid:

    WARNING! This solenoid DOES NOT use suppression diodes. Use of this solenoid on vehicles with Engine Control Computers will result in permanent damage to the computer/processor.

    as seen here...
    http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...10308/10002/-1
    Im not a wiring guy and am not sure what this means. Being that I am going efi and will have a computer can someone explain this in layman's terms.
    The layman's definition is: A solenoid is made up of a coil of wire and an armature. The armature is a piece of iron that moves as a result of the magnetic field the coil makes when energized. The movement of the armature operates the switch part of the solenoid. Its just a big relay. The problem comes when the solenoid is de-energized and the movement of the armature past the coil can produce a voltage spike which is seen in all the connected wiring and if the spike is large enough it can affect adjacent wires. The spike that is created will be AC voltage and most automotive electronics have no protection from AC voltage and as result are damaged. The suppression diodes are designed to control this voltage.[/QUOTE]

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    46
    What size breaker would you recomend between the battery and the starter on the 0/1 wire?
    thanks
    Steve

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    O Fallon Missouri
    Posts
    4
    Country Flag: United States
    Add Content

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Caledonia, MI
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfdsteve View Post
    What size breaker would you recomend between the battery and the starter on the 0/1 wire?
    thanks
    Steve
    Look up the rated load on the wire you are using then use a fuse/breaker that has a slightly lower than that. If your fuse isn't rated lower than your wire the wire will become the fuse and that will be bad. For example The wire I used is rated at 250 amps continuous. I used a 225 amp fuse.

    Jason Mitchell
    1969 Camaro @ Dutchboys

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Pickerington, OH
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    86
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    This is a great thread, very helpful. Anyone have a picture of a suppression diode installed on a remote solenoid?

    Thanks,

    Scott

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    46
    So if you run the solenoid to prevent the long run of the large wire hot all the time how do you power up the rest of the front of the car and dash?
    Thanks

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    1,313
    Quote Originally Posted by lfdsteve View Post
    So if you run the solenoid to prevent the long run of the large wire hot all the time how do you power up the rest of the front of the car and dash?
    Thanks
    You can run a smaller cable, and fuse that one, since it won't be carrying the starter load.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    46
    Can you recommend a size for that wire and fuse. This will be for a 71 Firebird. Aside from the usual load of an ac equipped car, also have a mark IIV fan from a Lincoln.
    Tnx steve

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,313
    On my car I ran a 2 gauge wire and fused it at 150 amps. But I had the 2 gauge wire left over from a battery relocation kit. But it really depends on what you have in your car ( electric fuel pump, dual electric fans etc)?

    I would try to add up your electric load and then add 20% or something and aim for that. But depends on how much you want to add later.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2
    Country Flag: United States
    Reference the talk about the diode required for ECM equipped vehicles, I was speaking to a friend of mine about it and he stated that the late model Ford solenoids are equipped with a diode built in. Here is an example: http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Lap-F4.../dp/B003X0Z64O

    From the part description:
    A 12 volt, 4-terminal solenoid with copper contact terminals, grounded base w/phenolic housing, suppression diode for protection of electronic circuits. Render mounted. Used on Ford, and other vehicles. “I”terminal is not used when replacing three terminal solenoids. Victory Lap kits fit nearly 90 percent of American made automobile and light truck starters and alternators. Plus, Victory Lap now has several kits available to repair the most popular import starters. All replacement parts of the finest parts available, meeting or exceeding OEM specifications. Each kit contains easy-to-follow, completely illustrated instructions. A great tool for the novice, do-it-yourself, student or professional mechanic. Colorful and attractive "clamshell" packaging resists damage and tampering.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Mid-Michigan
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    2,736
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfdsteve View Post
    So if you run the solenoid to prevent the long run of the large wire hot all the time how do you power up the rest of the front of the car and dash?
    Thanks
    Run the alt wire to a distribution block. Pick up the charge wire to the battery here also and run at least an 8 gauge to your main power at the fuse block.
    Go to Mad electrical and poke around. This is the info you really need. Tons of knowledge!
    http://madelectrical.com/catalog.shtml
    Mark
    Mark:
    "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
    This my Bad Ast thread...
    https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
    This is my Fotki album...
    http://astroracer.fotki.com/

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