CTS-V Brembo 6 piston swap on a 1st Gen

[CrazyLarrys68]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I've owned my Camaro since '94. It's a L34 w/ RS options. I hate to "cut up" the car, The Gul Mod, solid bushings, and sway bar in the front are done.The 4 piston irons just don't stop the way I would like them to. Other than the obvious caliper, what else do I have to look forward to. I will be buying parts/pieces as I can afford, so a kit isn't an option. I bought another set of stock upper and lowers w/ drums and understand the machining of the front hub. Which spindle of the two (if there is a diff) is stronger? Which hat/rotor should I use? 13" 14"? What brackets? Lines? I'll be buying wheels later to fit the set up. Please help! My brain hurts.

[Apogee]

Well, that's a lot of questions. Per your PM, the mounting points for the CTS-V 6-piston Brembos are not the same as the C5/C6 applications, so none of those conversion brackets will cross over as far as I know. The perpendicular radial offset of the caliper mounting holes relative to the centerline of the hub is much shorter (~22mm), so mounting the CTS-V caliper to a C5/C6 adapter bracket will then require a different diameter rotor by twice that amount. Aside from that, you'll also need a rotor with a wide friction annulus to accommodate the 64.14mm [2.53"] radial pad height.

The rotors, brackets and hubs are all linked to one another since those are what set the axial position of everything and the calipers must be centered over the rotors. There are several ways to go about designing a brake kit, but as you select individual items, whether that be hubs, rotors or brackets, your locking yourself into other decisions. Since you've already decided that you're going to run OE drum hubs, that locks in your rotor mounting point. The next thing to determine is which rotor you want to use which will then define where the caliper needs to be mounted for proper alignment. That's where the design of the bracket comes into play...it may or may not be possible given the other items you've chosen.

HTH,
Tobin
KORE3

[CrazyLarrys68]

Tobin,

Thanks for the info. and for your help. I'll do some more math and try to figure it out.

[Hondo78]

I am doing a 6 piston CTS V swap as well, I will get them by Friday, price is right and they are a center and go caliper, the 14.3" zo6 rotor works well and comes from GM drilled for under $100, ea. The CTS V calipers are expensive, I guess due to small production numbers. I am building a.. CTS r, or a 6cyl coupe CTS with the goodies from the V series. So I can send you some measurements once I get the set.
FYI do a search on a gen 4 camaro build on line with many of the parts and sources you can use. I have see a set on a 66 GTO as well, so brackets are available depending on what you are running for spindles.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/viewall.html

Good luck, great project

[kllrvet]

wow

[CrazyLarrys68]

Hey Hondo! Thanks for the reply. I almost forgot I posted. Have yet to do the swap. The brackets, lines will probably be ordered from Ed Miller. Still weighting options. I picked up a hydroboost from a Mustang GT. I've heard that this unit may not work though? Find out I guess. A buddy is going to make the firewall plate. I'll have to out source the lines. Know of anyone who makes a "kit"? I'll need it to go from the Ford Hydro to a late GM IROC box. Still tring to figure which to do. CTS-V 4 pot's vs. 6's...13" vs. 14"...17" vs. 18". Is there a real difference in the two set up's on a non-ABS car? Those six pistons are SIIIICK! I don't know if this will justify the overall cost. INPUT? Oooh! Is there a rotor hat offered that might offset the caliper, placing it further back? Just a thought. Thanks guys

[Hondo78]

My yellow CTS V calipers are in, they are huge! 6 piston units are going to stop the car! The link I sent has the silver calipers listed. The 14.3" Zo6 rotors are listed as well, they can be had for under 100 each drilled and ready to slide on.
On the power steering lines, easy, just cut off the crimped on ends of your IROC box and mate the power steering lines, if they are long enough take them to a full service parts store like an old NAPA store and have them crimped on the old IROC PS box fittings. Or a full service parts store will have the ends, don't forget to put it all together first, on the car and draw a line from the hose to the fitting, to index the crimped line.
Tip- If the hose is too short, they will also have a butt connector, I went from Ford to Toyota just by cutting off enough of each, and a butt crimp in the middle. (This also remedied the metric to SAE size hoses).
Thanks, these brakes are very fair, I paid 1,300 for all four corners!
Also the CTS has a "Lake Model GM Pattern" on the lugs 5 on 120 not 5 on 4 3/4, and the CTS rotors are much more $ than the Z06 14.3 inchers

[Hondo78]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I've owned my Camaro since '94. It's a L34 w/ RS options. I hate to "cut up" the car, The Gul Mod, solid bushings, and sway bar in the front are done.The 4 piston irons just don't stop the way I would like them to. Other than the obvious caliper, what else do I have to look forward to. I will be buying parts/pieces as I can afford, so a kit isn't an option. I bought another set of stock upper and lowers w/ drums and understand the machining of the front hub. Which spindle of the two (if there is a diff) is stronger? Which hat/rotor should I use? 13" 14"? What brackets? Lines? I'll be buying wheels later to fit the set up. Please help! My brain hurts.

Keep your old spindles around,then source some drum brake spindles they have a flat surface with 4 bolt holes to start from. I can usually find early Chevelle, Skylark or Cutlass drum brake spindles and then fab a bracket for what ever you want fora brake option. (Simply reverse the left and right tie rod arm for the Camaro) Also the 4 Piston 2003 to 2008 CTS V brake calipers are smaller but are big stoppers, same 2 ton car after all. I have seen prices sooo cheap from GM. Do a search on this or the Cadillac forum, you will find a dealer who sells for wholesale.
Tip: New units are cheaper than rebuilt in most cases.

[CrazyLarrys68]

Kinda wondered about the other spindle from a Chevelle. Aren't they taller? What effects will this have? I think Mr.Pozzi has a write up somewhere about this subject. I haven't found a def answer on whether this will work for the better. I checked the diff in the Vette rotor vs. the 5th gen Camaro. I didn't have a depth mic on me but there is only a 1/8 in or so diff(Camaro being deeper). If I use the Vette rotor, I still have the choice of sizes. I really don't see where the 1/8 inch in offset is going to make a difference in my selection of wheel.

[Hondo78]

The first gen Camaro Spindle is interchangeable with the mid size car the bolt on tie rods ends they simply reversed left for Right as the Camaro is a rear tie rod, the Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Cutlass etc all have are same unit. However midsize cars have the steering box ahead of the axle.
With Drum brake spindle you have no limit to how large a disk you can hang on a custom bracket off the flat surface. The Gen 2 Trans AM and Olds 88 spindles are taller, and have a special casting number indicating when they are forged. Racers use these on modified cars, as you can run 5 x 5 hubs from the Olds 88 HD or 98 HD. However these have a cast bracket for 11.5" brake calipers.


I just did the same basic thing with my Gen 1 Mustang, and took off the Gen 2 Mustang disk brakes in favor of the '69 spindle from a drum brake car, these are beefy so the increase in Disk size from 10.6" to 13" will be addressing the additional stresses of racing.

BTW - These CTS-V calipers and the Corvette ZO6 units are big, thick, beefy so spacing is everything, my new rims will not work without a 1/4'' spacer, so rim spacing and caliper "Hat depth" is important unless you have a big budget for custom offset rims.

[Chevelle598bb]

Larry keep us updated on your progress. There are many people out there looking to do a cts-v six piston swap but it is still uncharted territory. I'm not sure how easy it will be or not. I think if it was doable, Tobin would already be on it like white on rice. Who knows maybe he is holding out on us!

[jpgolf14]

Guys. I happen to have a full set of front and rear 2009+ CTS-V calipers and rotors waiting to go on my car. Let me know if you need any measurements. The front calipers are huge, over 13" long. Pictures do not do them justice.

[FlyDoc]

Guys. I happen to have a full set of front and rear 2009+ CTS-V calipers and rotors waiting to go on my car. Let me know if you need any measurements. The front calipers are huge, over 13" long. Pictures do not do them justice.

I don't think those will work for your car...

I'll pm you my address so you can send then to me.... you just don't want to do all that work!!

LOL
those are nice...

[Hondo78]

JBG-

Just wondering, why do these say "brembo", my Cadillac sourced set came with a Cadillac symbol on them. I have not found a nice set of vented rotors yet either, I understand the 14.3" Corvette Z06 rotors are fully drilled and are about the same size.

[jpgolf14]

JBG-

Just wondering, why do these say "brembo", my Cadillac sourced set came with a Cadillac symbol on them. I have not found a nice set of vented rotors yet either, I understand the 14.3" Corvette Z06 rotors are fully drilled and are about the same size.

I had mine powdercoated. The rotors are OEM as well but I had them slotted by an ALMS / Indy / Nascar team.

The problem with the Z06 rotors is that the pad surface is not large enough for the CTS-V pads. The V pads are too tall.

[jpgolf14]

I wanted to add a few things since I am further along on my swap and have run into a few issues I'd like to save you guys from.

First. These calipers have different mounting lugs than the Gen I CTS and 2010+ SS Camaro. They are not symmetrical like the calipers on those other cars. One lug is longer than the other. Now, the 2010+ SS Camaro guys have proven that the calipers still are a direct swap, but it mounts the caliper cockeyed. Notice in the picture below. The gap between the pad and the inner radius of the rotor ring is different on the top of the pad compared to the bottom. This is becuase of the non-symmetrical mounting lugs.


Second. These calipers do not have nice flush mounting lugs like the other calipers. So if you car is like my Camaro, where the mounting lugs are at about the same radius as the spindle bolts, you may run into problems where you need to mill down some material on the calipers.

Here is my first version of my bracket. Notice the crazy shape of the bracket to accommodate the lug edges on the caliper.


So I milled down those edges on the caliper so I could run a much better bracket.


And now the rev A bracket is much nicer.


And an on car teaser. The calipers are mounted just slightly lower than vertical on the car. I tried to get as close to vertical as possible but ran into some restrictions on my spindles.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

^ that is slick man. Looks like factory Brembo GT all the way, prob $4k+ cheaper!

[Kybosh]

Nice work JP, that looks really nice and I bet it feels great too.

[Yenko boy]

Wow this is awesome info thanks guys. Quick question whats the difference between CTS-V Calipers/Rotors and New Zl1 Calipers/Rotors?

[jpgolf14]

They superficially seem to be the same. There is something different though. Because when you install CTS-V calipers directly onto a 5th gen Camaro, the caliper is slightly cockeyed. However the ZL1 does not have this issue. So either the mounting lugs are slightly different on the caliper or the spindle has been modified. We have been discussing this on Camaro5. See link below. Someone is trying to check with Brembo to see if the caliper is the same.

Start with my reply #323
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=71401&page=13