For those running a GM Controller for LS setup

[DFRESH]

Question, if I already know the motor is going to make around 500 hp, would you just buy the Controller that PACE sells advertised as the 480HP model? It's the same price as the 430HP for LS3 (which is the motor i've got--with a different cam). I would imagine that the initial tune would be closer on the 480hp setup controller than the 430---but either way it will need to be tuned so I am curious what you guys have done with your setups and if I am going down the right path here.

Doug

[CarlC]

Which ECM is it? E38?

[tom_a]

Doug,

I have the 430HP LS3 and am using the E38 GM unit that Speartech supplied me and my car is now running but not quite driving yet. I left the stock cam for now as I just want to get it going but plan to change. I did not even realize they listed a 480 and a 430 choice. I would think it would not much matter as you are gonna get a tune. That said for the same price I would get the 480HP. What cam are you going with?

[Flash68]

Oh goodness... Doctor Fresh enters the LS world!!!!!

[DFRESH]

Carl/Tom--speak to me like i'm in first grade here----how would I know or figure out which ECM it is? What the hell is the ECM anyways---Electronic something I am guessing---oh man--here we go---can't wait for the posts to begin---

Doug

[Nessumsar]

ECM = Engine Control Module. Its the box that the engine harness plugs into. Much like an MSD box, just a little more complicated...

I would think that the 480hp ECM would have a closer tune that may allow you to run the engine on the base tune; althought the engine may stumble around and possible run lean. (Running lean on these engines isn't as bad as Gen 1 engines as the ECM will automatically pull timing to accomidate for it.)

Are you tuning the engine outside of the car?

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Now Doougie...you know better than to plan on running a motor with less than optimum tune! J/K bro...

You can prob fire the motor w that ECM and tune, but expect to get it tuned properly before you hit the road for all the obvious reasons. An alternative would be to use what you have (do you have one?) or get one from Speartech w a base tune either of which will require fine tuning (ie, Dyno or HP Tuners) w a different cam but it'll be close enough to fire up.

[CarlC]

Here 'goes Doug.

There are several different computers, ECM's as Jon points out, the came in GM cars that use the 58-tooth reluctor wheel in the LS2/3/7 etc engines. For what we do, and for the cost, the E38 is likely the best. The latest versions/best come in 2010+ 5th-gen LS-series Camaros and C6's. If you are considering having Pace supply the ECM, have them also supply the MAP, throttle body, MAF, and throttle pedal. In order to try and make them all connect and talk well with each other, see if Pace can order all of the parts from a common VIN. You can get a VIN off of EBAY from a for-sale car. The throttle pedal may be the oddball, but it sure is nice to be able to walk into a GM dealer if a part breaks and hand them a VIN to order from.

The 480hp tune in a 500hp motor should start and run around town fine. Just don't get on it. Take it to a competent chassis dyno tuner and have them work their magic. It will be worth every penny for a guy that is new to EFI. Then get HPTuners, EFILive, or some other laptop system so that you can monkey around with things.

Also, for what we do and your horsepower level, the MAF is really nice to have. The MAF supplied in the latest LS 5th gen/C6 are capable of FAR more than what you are doing. So is the throttle body.

Some other good things to consider:

1) Have a constant-power feed from the battery to the ECM. This bypasses all switches and cut-offs. If power is lost to the ECM all of the "learning" that the ECM does to fine tune the long term fuel trims will be lost.

2) Have O2 bungs in each collector for the main O2's. For each bank have one tube that has an additional bung that is placed approximately 18" from the header flange. This will help to get the tune even closer since the signal from the collector can be polluted by the other cylinders.

3) Mount the ECM where it is easy to get to. I never thought I'd be taking mine out. It's been out at least six times.

[DFRESH]

Excellent stuff--thank you guys. The ECM from Pace comes complete I believe, but will look into it further Carl--thanks for the advice. Will probably get a few more pointers from you at the RTTC event---or at my place afterwards for the Taco Cart dog pile. Great tip on the power feed--makes total sense--I wired up the Fast box this way on the drag car--but i've never heard it referred too as an ECM--LOL.

Doug

[DFRESH]

I don't have one---motor did not come with it---so will need to purchase. Ya, I figured it would probably be closer with the 480 tune--just wasn't sure of how the GM ECM's vary from let's say a FAST or Accell setup---they all operate off of a MAP and TPS from my experience---just not familiar with the factory GM setup yet. I figure I have a large learning curve coming up again. Luckily, I don't have to be the pioneer here---it's been done a couple of times already---

[Flash68]

What about the Mast M-90 Doug? You need all this stuff included here?

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...ackages&id=238

[Mkelcy]

Excellent stuff--thank you guys. The ECM from Pace comes complete I believe, but will look into it further Carl--thanks for the advice. Will probably get a few more pointers from you at the RTTC event---or at my place afterwards for the Taco Cart dog pile. Great tip on the power feed--makes total sense--I wired up the Fast box this way on the drag car--but i've never heard it referred too as an ECM--LOL.

Doug

The GMPP ECM kit for the 480hp LS3 comes with two O2 sensors (and the harness is easily long enough to put the O2 sensors in the header collectors), the MAF, the drive by wire pedal, ECM, harness and a good fuse/relay panel.

I was planing on running my stock 480hp LS3 on the factory tune. Does anyone think the addition of headers would mandate a re-tune?

[The WidowMaker]

What about the Mast M-90 Doug?

do you know if the new m-120 is a renamed wide band m-90, or is it a different system? if youre not buying their motors, the mast stuff is REALLY expensive. the specs look amazing though.

Luckily, I don't have to be the pioneer here---it's been done a couple of times already---

but a few more guinea pigs wont hurt. let us all know how it works out.

[DFRESH]

What about the Mast M-90 Doug? You need all this stuff included here?

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...ackages&id=238

Ya, Dave I actually looked at there stuff, along with Speartech. So far, most of the guys I have spoken with have used the factory setup since it can be hacked and tuned---yet is the least expensive with at or near same quality---and if orderd through companies like GMPP or Pace they come with everything you need including the pedal assembly.

[DFRESH]

The GMPP ECM kit for the 480hp LS3 comes with two O2 sensors (and the harness is easily long enough to put the O2 sensors in the header collectors), the MAF, the drive by wire pedal, ECM, harness and a good fuse/relay panel.

I was planing on running my stock 480hp LS3 on the factory tune. Does anyone think the addition of headers would mandate a re-tune?

It's a great question Mike---and I would like to know as well----I'm planning on running 1 7/8 on my setup or a step 1 3/4 to 1 7/8.

[DFRESH]

Doug,

I have the 430HP LS3 and am using the E38 GM unit that Speartech supplied me and my car is now running but not quite driving yet. I left the stock cam for now as I just want to get it going but plan to change. I did not even realize they listed a 480 and a 430 choice. I would think it would not much matter as you are gonna get a tune. That said for the same price I would get the 480HP. What cam are you going with?

Tom, the camshaft is a Comp Cams Part # 146-456-11 Specs are as follows;

Gross 607/621
Duration 268/284
@ 50 219/235
Lobe 113

Cam and springs came with the motor. Need to be installed.

Doug

[CarlC]

You should still have it re-tuned. The tune is EVERYTHING with these systems. There's a few more little tricks you can do to make the tune go better as well but they need to be done during the build. If you make sure I see Elvis at the taco bash I'll let loose with my secrets!

[DFRESH]

You should still have it re-tuned. The tune is EVERYTHING with these systems. There's a few more little tricks you can do to make the tune go better as well but they need to be done during the build. If you make sure I see Elvis at the taco bash I'll let loose with my secrets!

Dude--of course you are invited for that----I purchased the Top Gun Anthem song just for the event in your honor--I put it on my RTTC Ipod Mix---along with "Danger Zone".

[andrewb70]

The GMPP kit comes with the E67 ECU. Keep in mind that this kit is for manual transmissions only. There are no previsions for controlling the trans. I would start with the kit that most closely matches the cam you are using. The fuel curve is very closely related to the torque curve, which is directly related to the cam shaft selection. I have the LS7 kit, with the stock LS7 tune. My engine is a L92 with an LS7 cam. The drivability is perfect with the only issue being a slightly rich condition at WOT.

Andrew

[The WidowMaker]

There's a few more little tricks you can do to make the tune go better as well but they need to be done during the build.

uh oh. what do i need to do to get those secrets?