Enter your username:
Do you want to login or register?
  • Forgot your password?

    Login / Register



    Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast
    Results 41 to 60 of 181
    1. #41
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,603
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Scott
      On the vent deal, for cars like my 77 Z28, why can't a simple vent line run to the canister to the engine, just like stock? The LS motors appear to be all setup with solenoids to deal with evap. And you need evap to be legal in CA for swaps - check the GM eRod package, comes with evap setup that looks similar to a 4th gen setup.

      is it just not pretty enough for people or are there technical obstacles?
      That sounds like a good solution to me. It's possible that many find it too complicated, or don't know how to connect it all up, or (like me) didn't realize it was something one can buy.



      jp
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro


    2. #42
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      Hamilton, NJ
      Posts
      4,291
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by CarlC View Post
      Thanks BH!

      Stock configurations: 2
      Clipped corners for exhaust.
      Trimmed aft for relocated springs.
      Narrowed.
      Increased-volume option.

      Mix those up and there's a lot of different options, and each one affects cost. Then there's 1st gens, Chevelles, Novas, Mustangs, Challengers, etc. It's crazy the number of options that are available. It makes my head spin!
      What I mean is there are 70-73 tanks, 74-77 tanks and 78-81 tanks, with 74-81 being the same tank with different filler necks due to tailpan changes. In general 74-81 don’t get the love the 70-73 cars get for a lot of things, and I think that is a swing & miss by the aftermarket because I think people more readily modify later ones because they aren’t so ‘collectible’ and they made a whole lot more. Spectre flat out told one of the guys at nastyZ they have no intention of making an EFI tank for 74-81. That is total failure. So make sure your guys deal with that and they will sell some tanks, especially when you weight total costs.

      /soapbox.

      1970 124,901
      1971 114,630
      1972 68,651
      1973 96,751
      404,933

      1974 151,008
      1975 145,770
      1976 182,959
      1977 218,853
      698,590

      1978 272,631
      1979 282,571
      1980 152,005
      1981 126,139
      833,346

      I gotta look out for my 2nd gen peeps.
      Scott from NJ.

      Vent Windows Forever! ...

      Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold
      I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors

    3. #43
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      Hamilton, NJ
      Posts
      4,291
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
      That sounds like a good solution to me. It's possible that many find it too complicated, or don't know how to connect it all up, or (like me) didn't realize it was something one can buy.

      jp
      Right? Seems to me evap lets you run a non-vented gas cap, which might remedy the fuel spillage issue?
      Scott from NJ.

      Vent Windows Forever! ...

      Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold
      I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors

    4. #44
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,603
      Country Flag: United States
      Non-vented cap is the key, for sure, to prevent fuel spillage.

      My solution gets you to a non-vented cap, but does vent some vapor to the atmosphere.

      jp
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    5. #45
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Rustburg, Virginia
      Posts
      3,436
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
      I gotta look out for my 2nd gen peeps.
      Attaboy Scott!
      1970 RS/SS350 139K on the clock:
      89 TPI motor w/ 1pc rear seal coupled to a Viper T56 via Mcleod's modular bellhousing w/ hydraulic T/O bearing from the Viper, 12 bolt rear w/ 3.73 gearing, SC&C upper control arms, factory lowers with Delalums, C5 brakes at all four corners, Front Wheels 17x8's with Sumi 255/40/17 and Rear Wheels 17x9's with Sumi 275/40/17.
      Brief description of the work done so far can be found here: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112454


    6. #46
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      10-4 Scott. I misread your meaning in your post.

      The version we put into a friends car was out of a late 2dn gen car. It's just not an elegant system. That's hopefully one of the things I'll tackle in the near future.

      I like JP's canister as well.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    7. #47
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      Hamilton, NJ
      Posts
      4,291
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
      Non-vented cap is the key, for sure, to prevent fuel spillage.

      My solution gets you to a non-vented cap, but does vent some vapor to the atmosphere.

      jp
      Jeff can probably get us GM part numbers used in the eRod setup. You can hide it under the car or in the trunk or where ever. On the 4trh gen IIRC it is on top of the tank. Hey, the early 2nd gens had some evap contraption behind the rear seat, might fit there.

      Quote Originally Posted by CarlC View Post
      10-4 Scott. I misread your meaning in your post.

      The version we put into a friends car was out of a late 2dn gen car. It's just not an elegant system. That's hopefully one of the things I'll tackle in the near future.

      I like JP's canister as well.
      I need more concise rantings, lol.
      Scott from NJ.

      Vent Windows Forever! ...

      Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold
      I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors

    8. #48
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Burnaby, BC, Canada
      Posts
      1,388
      Quote Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
      Non-vented cap is the key, for sure, to prevent fuel spillage.

      My solution gets you to a non-vented cap, but does vent some vapor to the atmosphere.

      jp
      John, I'm very interested in your kit. Please advise us.

      Thx Ryan
      1969 CAMARO RS

      2002 LS1-T56 Dyno results: 452 rwhp, 425 rwtq
      Project pics of my '69
      Lateral-G Feature Page
      Camaro Performers Magazine Feature

    9. #49
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      How about a little fuel module tech?

      Digital cameras. You have to love ‘em.



      This the bottom of the fuel module used in the new tank. #1 is where high-pressure fuel is received into the venturi pump manifold. #2 is the bottom of the venturi pump for the main reservoir. #3 is the bottom of the venturi pump for the corner pickups. #4 is the equalization valve. The fuel pressure regulator is the silver canister.



      The large hose is the regulated pressure output. It attaches to the module hat that eventually goes to the fuel rail. The small hose is a high-pressure bleed for use in the venturi pumps.

      So what does this all do?

      The main thing to remember is that for best performance and maximum life the pump needs to be completely submerged in fuel at all times.

      Let’s start with the venturi pump. A venturi pump uses a restriction to create a low pressure zone. That low pressue zone can be used to draw fuel from a fuel bowl on a carburetor. It can also be used to fill the module reservoir. I like simple analogies, so let's try this. Take a hose with a nozzle into a pool and turn it on full-blast with a narrow stream. Hold the nozzle under the water but pointed up so that the column of water exiting the pool will just dump onto the deck. A lot more water is coming out of the pool than going in. What’s happening is you are trading the energy from the moving high-pressure fuel to lift a larger volume of low pressure fuel into the reservoir. It's not an exact analogy but it's easy to visualize. There are no moving parts in this pump so they are bulletproof reliable. So…..

      #1: High-pressure fuel bleed from the pump. This is the small hose in the photo above, runs down the side of the module, and attaches to the manifold on the bottom of the module.

      #2 & 3: High pressure fuel is fed into the venturi pumps.

      #4: The equalization valve, a one-way valve, allows fuel to flow in, but not out. So when there is mid-level fuel in the tank fuel can run into this valve to fill the reservoir. When fuel levels are very low no fuel will run into the valve. The venturi pumps keep the reservoir full during this time. When the pump is turned off and the level of the fuel in the reservoir is higher than that in the tank, the valve closes and keeps the module full. The valve also closes when fuel flows away from the module during hard cornering.

      The fuel pressure regulator is changed since the stock version provides too much pressure. An adapter is needed to fit another GM fuel pressure regulator so that a constant 58psi is delivered to the output.

      From an engineering and design standpoint there are many things to consider before swapping in a module. Fuel pressure, fuel volume at pressure, installed height, venturi performance, and module volume all come into consideration. For you that like numbers, here's the lab testing results…..

      Output pressure: 58psi.
      Output volume @ 58psi/13.5v: 200LPH.
      Horsepower capacity: 655HP @ 13.5V with a BSFC of 0.5.
      Output volume @ 52psi/14.7v: 260lph.
      Venturi performance: Effective to 45psi. Below 45psi the venturi pumps cannot keep up with the pressure pump output.

      The horsepower number above is different than what is in the original post. Why? There should be some safety built into output rating. Over time the pump may lose some of its performance so it’s better to have a little more than not enough.

      The venturi pump ties into a corner pickup system. These pickups have a screen across their inlet that act as both a filter and diaphragm. As fuel runs away from the pickup the fuel remaining in the screen acts as a diaphragm to close the flow valve in the pickup body. The venturi pump will pull from the least restrictive source, so if air is available, it will take that. So, the suction provided by the venturi pump acts on the screen covered with fuel, and closes the valve. Now air cannot be sucked into the venturi pump. When fuel runs back to the pickup the valve will re-open since there is a small bleed hole in the valve.

      OK, someone has to have some questions…..
      Last edited by CarlC; 04-20-2011 at 08:30 PM.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    10. #50
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,603
      Country Flag: United States
      My "canister" as Carl calls it, is a liquid/vapor separator. Vented fuel and vapor is trapped in the canister, and the liquid is returned to the tank, and the vapor precipitates out, turns into liquid and also returns to the tank. You add a breather filter to allow filtered air into the tank as the gasoline level is consumed by the engine.

      It's downside is that it needs to be mounted above the tank, and it all works via gravity. Some folks object to putting fuel thingies into the trunk which is where this packages best.

      Here's my installation instructions, which has a decent diagram about how it is supposed to be installed.
      Attached Images Attached Images
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    11. #51
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Location
      Phoenix
      Posts
      467
      Quote Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
      On the vent deal, for cars like my 77 Z28, why can't a simple vent line run to the canister to the engine, just like stock? The LS motors appear to be all setup with solenoids to deal with evap. And you need evap to be legal in CA for swaps - check the GM eRod package, comes with evap setup that looks similar to a 4th gen setup.

      is it just not pretty enough for people or are there technical obstacles?
      This is what I plan on doing. The cannister that comes with the eRod kit, altough I have not seen one, is probably the one to go with. Then, just have the PCM control the purge solenoid which sits up on the engine. You then just need a line from the tank to the cannister then on to the purge valve. All the other stuff for EVAP monitoring that the PCM does is not needed and I'm assuming can be deleted with software. This would also require a fairly small sized cannister (easier to locate in the car)and you get to use your sealed cap so no spillage problems or venting anything to atmosphere.

      I'm a ways away from attempting this but the only real challenge I forsee is can tuning software still allow purge without all the other EVAP system testing crap?
      Erik

      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...without-a-name

      Camaro LS2, T56, 12 bolt, C6 Z06 brakes, Rushforth Super Spokes, ATS Spindles
      2006 Chevy Trailblazer SS

    12. #52
      Join Date
      Jul 2001
      Location
      Calgary, AB
      Posts
      1,826
      Country Flag: Canada
      Quote Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
      My "canister" as Carl calls it, is a liquid/vapor separator. Vented fuel and vapor is trapped in the canister, and the liquid is returned to the tank, and the vapor precipitates out, turns into liquid and also returns to the tank. You add a breather filter to allow filtered air into the tank as the gasoline level is consumed by the engine.

      It's downside is that it needs to be mounted above the tank, and it all works via gravity. Some folks object to putting fuel thingies into the trunk which is where this packages best.

      Here's my installation instructions, which has a decent diagram about how it is supposed to be installed.
      I have one of John's seperators in the trunk for the rear end (ultimately vented out of the car) and have never... ever... had even the faintest wiff of oil or trace of liquid. In the near future I will have one for the fuel tank mounted right beside it with absolutely no concern, whatsoever.
      James
      1967 Camaro RS - The OLC
      1984 Camaro GT1
      1989 Camaro 1LE - The BOC

    13. #53
      Join Date
      Apr 2005
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      4,462
      Country Flag: United States
      Nice work Carl !
      I will be in touch when the time comes to buy a fuel tank..
      Jeff Tate
      U.S.A.
      "The best thing about participating in these events is that you get to hang out with a group of intelligent like minded people who live to achieve things in their lives. You won't find a lazy, mean, or dumb bone in their bodies." Bret Voelkel, RideTech

    14. #54
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      Location
      NW burbs IL
      Posts
      1,732
      So, lets say down the road I end up needing higher fuel delivery, are there pumps that will fit this module to support higher HP?

      What size is the outlet on the module? Do you know the fuel capacity of the module?
      Matt


      Current project: " Chain Reaction "

      A.K.A. " BIG " by wife, biatch in garage.

      1969 RS Camaro L92 T56 Quadra-link, CW sub, Ford 9" a progressive build.

      Ex track car: 1995 Camaro LS1 T56

    15. #55
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      Matt,

      Check out the post above that has the fuel module tech. The basic fuel delivery data is there. I have the data for flowrates below the rated pressure as well if anyone needs them.

      I ran the module with a voltage booster for one hour continously with no problems. It's the same module that has been used for all lab and in-car testing.

      There are other drop-in pumps available in the aftermarket that support well north of 1000hp. If you or anyone else is interested please send me a PM.

      The outlet is a standard 3/8" GM quick connect.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    16. #56
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,603
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Carl
      There are other drop-in pumps available in the aftermarket that support well north of 1000hp.
      Like, say, 1300 hp?

      jp
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    17. #57
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
      Location
      Batesville, IN
      Posts
      908
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
      Like, say, 1300 hp?

      jp
      The summation of the horsepower of all of the vehicles I own - 5 of them doesn't equal that number - -- You just got me thinking!!!!
      Brandon Wiedeman
      1972 Suburban
      1967 Chevy II - Project not yet started

      I have about 3 lifetimes worth of projects planned out in my head!
      Wiedo's

    18. #58
      Join Date
      Sep 2009
      Location
      Oxnard, CA
      Posts
      446
      It was my pleasure helping where ever I could Carl!!

      Good to see this moving forward Carl... I got a call yesterday from Hector to get 2 tanks going for me... One will be for Mary's car..

      When this design was shown to me.. it was no brainer to incorporate this type of fuel system in my LS conversions.. I will be much easier to quote an LS conversion when you can buy a gas tank with everything already built into it..

      Hector will be working the West Coast more this next coming year.. We got some plans for him to attend as many events that he can promoting this great new design..

      Quote Originally Posted by CarlC View Post
      Now that's an open ended question that I like! Just keep adding zeros Mike! I've been testing this system for five months to make sure it did what I wanted it to, and so far it has not let me down.

      vaporworx is me. I've been working on the designs above for the past 11 months. I'm the design side of this system. Rick's is the fabrication and sales side. For pricing and sales Hector at Rick's is the guy to talk to.

      My goal is to turn OE fueling solutions into designs that are practical for the types of cars that we have a passion for. The OE's spend millions designing these systems so why not use them? In that light, my hope is to share the knowledge that I have learned along the way. I'll be an open book about the performance characteristics of this new design.

      I've been lucky enough to have several other members help me to get these ideas off the ground, and they deserve a lot of credit.

      First, that really nice 3D working model was done by Lance-W. Lance and I are very much alike in the way we think about things. I would start to bounce an idea at him and he'd finish my thought. He came up with ideas and different perspectives that helped to make the design cleaner and easier to build. I'm a CAD novice, but he makes is look easy. Thank you Lance.

      Larry Callahan also helped in that he was able to assist with making prototypes of the module mounting ring. But, more importantly, Larry has this great website that allows us to share experiences, thoughts, needs, etc. I can't fathom how much knowledge is shared here and how much I have benefited from it.

      Cris at JCG also gets a hand. He listened to my ideas with patience and had the trust to move forward with them. Much Gras Amigo.

      Questions? Fire away.

    19. #59
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      Perhaps, a definate maybe. How's that for commitment JP? I need to talk to the manufacturer for spec's. It may not be a simple plug and play due to the way the pressure regulation is done. It may require some additional components.

      Thank you Cris! See you next Saturday.
      Last edited by CarlC; 09-09-2010 at 03:18 PM.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    20. #60
      Join Date
      May 2001
      Location
      Mesa, Az.
      Posts
      1,433
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm sorry if this was answered all ready as I read through and couldn't see it. Is this able to retro fit into an older Ricks EFI tank?
      Phillip
      64 Studebaker Daytona Twin Turbo- http://bit.ly/1SgxQ0g
      65 Cutlass F-85 - http://bit.ly/1W4lJm4

    Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast




    Advertise on Pro-Touring.com