Mary Pozzi's 73 Camaro - Project Jenny Craig

[1badchevelle]

Absolutely and I'll find something cool that won't be needed. PM me your mailing address. You'll have stickers coming too!! We will get your daughter a ride next year for sure. If she gets her permit, I'll ride shotgun.

Cheers,
Mary P.

Thank you. I really appreciated. I send you a pm shortly

I think you need to be 15 1/2 to get a permit. I will let her know as she will get a kick out of it.

[mpozzi]

Very nice setup. That LS looks sweet! Mary, I have never met you but I may have a car for your to put through the paces if you are interested.

Keeping the car compliant and not too radical will make it fun (and easy ...) to drive. If I'm ever back east, count me in. There are several guys near you that also are excellent shoes and can give good feedback.

My car is in the shop waiting on the suspension stuff so any second gen secrets you guys come across in your build and you want to share... feel free to let me know! :-)

What suspension and brakes are you planning on?

Forgot to add... Anyone here every move a motor back in a second gen? Mine is already getting major surgery so that is on the table for consideration. I have not run across one thus far but would be interested in hearing about it if someone has.

Nudge, nudge ... wink, wink!! Don't go cutting just yet as this is a Cris question and he'll share some answers soon. Skunkworks West has plans ...

Mary Pozzi

[Cris@JCG]

The motor that we have set in the car right now is a GM crate LS3 with a 2010 Camaro oil pan & Corvette harmaonic balancer & water pump.. Pulley/track system is GM Corevette part #19155067

Take a look @ the pic that I have attached.. Look @ the center line of the wheel hub to where the engine sits.. We have it in a location that sets the motor back about 2 inches with out modifying the firewall.. The motor needs still to go back about 1/2 an inch to clear the oil pan as we going to lower the motor about one more inch if the steering linkage allows it..



Here is where we can encounter problems.. The P/S is close upper control arms..



The heater water outlets are going to have to be pulled & drilled & tapped for 90 degree elbow fittings..



One concern I have is sitting motor & transmission lower that header collectors will sit to low & transmisson will hit on speed bumps..




Forgot to add... Anyone here every move a motor back in a second gen? Mine is already getting major surgery so that is on the table for consideration. I have not run across one thus far but would be interested in hearing about it if someone has.[/QUOTE]

[Cris@JCG]

Here are some pics of how nice these headers fit.

[POS71RS]

I stay in Ventura during my work weeks... I'd love to see your guys' shop sometime!

[Cris@JCG]

Feel free to stop on by!

I stay in Ventura during my work weeks... I'd love to see your guys' shop sometime!

[406 Q-ship]

Oh, and I would like to give a special mention about how good the Edelbrock LS-swap headers fit.. About as close to perfect as possible.

I agree on the headers. They are hilariously easy to install too.

I wish Edelbrock would offer them in stainless and offer the collector flanges as a separate item. They are really nice.

Thanks for the compliments on the headers. Carl those headers are stainless steel (409), just not the 304 that you are use too. I will talk to the powers that be about doing a line of collectors using that flange collector flanges.

[406 Q-ship]

Just curious if there is room for the z-bar/mechanical clutch with those headers? Trying to figure out how many options are out there or if hydraulic is a must.

When those headers were done a z-bar clutch linkage was never even considered because of the lack of provision on the LS blocks. I doubt that the z-bar would clear the headers, at least on the A-body but on a 2nd gen F-body I have never checked.

[Aschle]

I stay in Ventura during my work weeks... I'd love to see your guys' shop sometime!

And remember to text me pictures...

Jason

[David Pozzi]

Cris,
When you run the numbers on moving an engine back, it helps but not in a big way. Moving a large weight only a couple of inches doesn't have a big effect. But moving something like a 50 lb battery from front to rear is equal to moving an engine a foot!

An ls engine is around 420 lbs, trans 120, lets say 550 lbs for an engine with trans ready to run.
Camaro wheelbase is 108"

let's say the center of gravity of the engine/trans combo is 14" rearward of the RH front cyl head edge.

With engine moved back 2" CG 12" from front spindle.
Front Weight 484
Rear Weight 66

Move engine/trans to rear 2" CG 14" from front spindle.
Front Weight, 478
Rear Weight 72

You can see you are shifting 6 lbs off the front wheels, but perhaps creating problems adjusting more neg camber on the left upper A arm, running out of room against the firewall, etc. The difficulty is because the wheel base is so long, moving the engine has a small effect unless you can move it a foot or so. Moving the engine down probably has a larger effect (but on CGH) than front to rear. Moving smaller components is easier and probably helps as much when considering engine relocation.

Another big issue is the drivers side of the car usually weighs more, especially when the driver is in the car. Cars with air conditioning balance out better (without driver). Shifting weight to the passenger side is helpful. I'd add any coolers or reservoirs to the passenger side, more anything I could move over there if it didn't create lots of extra plumbing.

[Cris@JCG]

Thanks for the explanation Dave.. It makes perfect sense..

This is why I will be expecting your visit tomorrow.. I want to make sure I set it up to what you & Mary want.. Their is alot of weight we are removing from the nose of the car.. so placement of engine back will not gain much then it is better not to fight that battle..

Cris,
When you run the numbers on moving an engine back, it helps but not in a big way. Moving a large weight only a couple of inches doesn't have a big effect. But moving something like a 50 lb battery from front to rear is equal to moving an engine a foot!

An ls engine is around 420 lbs, trans 120, lets say 550 lbs for an engine with trans ready to run.
Camaro wheelbase is 108"

let's say the center of gravity of the engine/trans combo is 14" rearward of the RH front cyl head edge.

With engine moved back 2" CG 12" from front spindle.
Front Weight 484
Rear Weight 66

Move engine/trans to rear 2" CG 14" from front spindle.
Front Weight, 478
Rear Weight 72

You can see you are shifting 6 lbs off the front wheels, but perhaps creating problems adjusting more neg camber on the left upper A arm, running out of room against the firewall, etc. The difficulty is because the wheel base is so long, moving the engine has a small effect unless you can move it a foot or so. Moving the engine down probably has a larger effect (but on CGH) than front to rear. Moving smaller components is easier and probably helps as much when considering engine relocation.

Another big issue is the drivers side of the car usually weighs more, especially when the driver is in the car. Cars with air conditioning balance out better (without driver). Shifting weight to the passenger side is helpful. I'd add any coolers or reservoirs to the passenger side, more anything I could move over there if it didn't create lots of extra plumbing.

[Doug1]

Mary Pozzi

Mine is a little radical I guess. LOL Here is the build thread..
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=70526

Hell, I may send the car out west just for some fun when it get finished. My motor combo is going to be heavier since it is a 535 IA2 Pontiac cast iron block. 750 HP though so it will be a crazy ride for an inexperienced noob like me.

Frank from Prodigy and Chad from Fletcher's Customs are both working on it so it is in excellent hands.

Anyone know what the factory weight distribution is on a 2nd gen with an 8 cyl factory motor?

How do I go about trying to figure out the COG? I am sure Frank and Chad can do it but I am just trying to learn for future reference.

[mpozzi]

I stay in Ventura during my work weeks... I'd love to see your guys' shop sometime!

Come on by tomorrow or Tuesday ... we'll also be there. Going to Anvil Tuesday morning but should be back at JCG in the afternoon. We also work evenings.

Cris is a slave driver ... ;-)

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

Mine is a little radical I guess. LOL Here is the build thread..
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=70526

Hell, I may send the car out west just for some fun when it get finished. My motor combo is going to be heavier since it is a 535 IA2 Pontiac cast iron block. 750 HP though so it will be a crazy ride for an inexperienced noob like me.

Frank from Prodigy and Chad from Fletcher's Customs are both working on it so it is in excellent hands.

Anyone know what the factory weight distribution is on a 2nd gen with an 8 cyl factory motor?

How do I go about trying to figure out the COG? I am sure Frank and Chad can do it but I am just trying to learn for future reference.

Prior to surgery, my car was 55% front and 45% rear. It's pretty close to what the OEM ratings were.

[David Pozzi]

Sorry, I reversed the front and rear weights in my last post. I went back and edited it.
I'll be down with Mary and we can talk. Your time is better spent pulling weight off the car high up and forward, that does the most. The CF trunk lid help overall weight reduction, but it does not do nearly as much for handling as working on the front.
David

[David Pozzi]

Mine is a little radical I guess. LOL Here is the build thread..
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=70526

Hell, I may send the car out west just for some fun when it get finished. My motor combo is going to be heavier since it is a 535 IA2 Pontiac cast iron block. 750 HP though so it will be a crazy ride for an inexperienced noob like me.

Frank from Prodigy and Chad from Fletcher's Customs are both working on it so it is in excellent hands.

Anyone know what the factory weight distribution is on a 2nd gen with an 8 cyl factory motor?

How do I go about trying to figure out the COG? I am sure Frank and Chad can do it but I am just trying to learn for future reference.

Doug, Your front weight percentage is probably around 58%. Probably 3600 lbs depending on what you have done to lighten it.

[73CPCAMARO]

Mary,

I can't wait to see how good you will be with the changes. Thanks for showing and keep it coming.

I am also using the Edelbrock LS conversion headers on my 2nd gen Camaro and they are very nice.

Brian

[carbuff]

The Magnum definetly takes up more space than the T56, but the issue is pretty much in the shifter area.

Thanx Steve. That's what I was looking for...

Enjoy the project Mary and crew, looks like a lot of fun!

[Doug1]

Thanks David. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. I have subscribed to this thread so I look forward to seeing the magic take place!

Anyone make aluminum bumper supports and / or bumper inserts for the 2nd gens? Between those brackets, bumper support and core support, I imagine there is significant weight savings to be had. Something to start researching...

[BonzoHansen]

One concern I have is sitting motor & transmission lower that header collectors will sit to low & transmission will hit on speed bumps..

Would a 4th gen ls1 oil pan give you more pan clearance? That always seems to be the pan du jour.

I can't really believe the trans would hang too far lower than the headers unless those headers are right up against the floor. Mine behind a SBC. I've scraped the collector but never the trans