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    1. #21
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      Here is what the scrub radius is doing in .5" increments...
      Dive:
      -0.5 = -.03
      -1.0 = -.03
      -1.5 = -.03
      -2.0 = -.02
      -2.5 = .01
      -3.0 = .03
      This means it is moving a total of .06 inches while it is articulating in Dive.
      Rebound:
      +0.5 = .03
      +1.0 = .07
      +1.5 = .13
      +2.0 = .19
      +2.5 = .27
      +3.0 = .37
      It's really walking around in rebound. Is this too excessive?
      Mark

      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/


    2. #22
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      CA
      Posts
      452
      Nope. You're good. Most IFS I design fall in about the same range, so does the C5 IFS. Good job!

    3. #23
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      2,764
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      Even though Katz and I are still kicking around suspension points I have gotten a few things done.
      Here are some pics of the Steering Rack Brackets. These will be made out of 1/4" plate. I have a two piece design shown to allow for future up/down adjustment of the rack if the need arises. I will probably add a couple of tube braces to triangulate the mounts either forward or backward in car.


      Here is a pic of the LCA Brackets. I'll probably make these out of 4130 for strength and wear resistance. I've squared all of the control arm points to chassis centerline so fabbing the brackets and keeping evrything straight should be much easier.

      This is a shot of the motor/trans in place. I've lowered them 5.5" and moved them back 14". I've got the mount plates placed in the file but haven't connected them to the chassis yet. I am trying to decide if I should move the motor back towards the driver an 1" or so... The Astro's have the motor/trans offset toward the Pass. side about 2 3/8".
      Thanks for looking
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      With Katz's help this suspension design is a go...
      I have done a bit of redesigning on the cradle, adding the front and rear crossmembers and getting the motor mounts tied to the rear crossmember. I'll snap some new pics tonight and get them loaded.
      I'll be building the crossmembers out of 2 x 4 rectangular tubing and then tieing the 2" dia lower rails into them. This gets rid of all the bends in the 2"tubing that I had in my initial design. The bends look cool but I've determined they will be nearly impossible to do with the equipment I have access too. Without spending a bunch of money on bending dies....
      I made dimensioned drawings for the cradle last night so I am ready to start cutting steel. AFTER I do a little more checking and thinking of course.... Measure twice, cut once...
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    5. #25
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      I ordered the custom license plate for the van Friday...
      What do you think? BAD AST
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Nov 2003
      Location
      Chicago Illinois
      Posts
      268
      thats all i have to say. Did I read that right? your setting the motor back 14 inches? as always the suspension drawings look awsome, haha I can think of a few engineering firms here in Chicago whose work do not look anywhere near that professional. Cant wait to see it completed.
      DEREK

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
      Posts
      6,108
      Country Flag: United States
      I'd extend the lower shock brackets to the lower balljoint, it gives them more support and eliminates twist on the tube. I like their lower eye location, below the A frame is good.

      The steering rack brackets look like they could flex or slip side to side. Is there room to connect them with a tube?
      If not, maybe you can use two bolts per side to the frame.
      David
      Last edited by David Pozzi; 09-20-2004 at 09:34 PM.
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    8. #28
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      2,764
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      Thanks Derek, and yes, you read it right... The motor is going down 5.5", back 14" and back towards center about an 1 1/4". The #1 spark plug hole ends up a little over 10" behind the front axle centerline.

      David,
      We are on the same page on all of your points. I plan to extend the shock tabs just as you mentioned (I just need to do it) and I am looking into using a set of stock car style anti-dive bushings to better locate the steering brackets and provide an incremental adjust for Bump Steer.
      I am thinking for now though I may leave the slots out and just put the initial hole in each bracket. IF I need to adjust the bump steer I can always mill the slots later.
      As far as flex in the mounts is concerned I am thinking about that also. The brackets I have shown are just intitial concept. Something to look at, so to speak. I am looking at adding an additional wall on the inside of each frame bracket to control sideways movement of the rack bracket. This will also give the frame bracket more width so I can add a triangulation tube down to the frame rail. I will work on this stuff tonight and post it up tomorrow.
      Thanks for your input, it is greatly appreciated, and anything else you guys see (or don't see) is welcome input also.
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      Here is the latest cradle design. 2 x 4 front and rear crossmembers, triangulation added to LCA attachments, motor mounts tie directly into rear crossmember with 1 1/4 x .156 wall tubing.

      The top view gives you a better look at how things are tied together.

      This a pic of the Monte Carlo bar I am thinking of adding between the shock towers... You can also see in the left front corner the beginings of the Stab Bar attachment.

      Here I've got most of the front suspension turned on. You can see how far back the motor is going to be. The #1 spark plug is a little over 10" behind the front axle centerline...
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    10. #30
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Erwin,TN
      Posts
      425
      Country Flag: United States

      Basic set-up?!

      Sounds like a really cool concept. I have some questions as to how parts of your prospective Astro will turn out.
      What powertrain will it have?! Are you going with Baer brakes?! Are you going to keep OE-type seats for the rear of the van, or do you have something else planned?!
      I am merely curious because I am contemplating a similiar Ford Aerostar project.

    11. #31
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      Hey FGC...
      The van will be getting a BBC with a 700R4. The rear will be a 9" Ford with 4.11's.
      Brakes, for now, is all Grand Sport 'Vette stuff and I will be using either Dodge Neon or Fiero buckets in the front four positions. The rear floor, starting just in front of the rear axle and going rearward, will be raised about a foot and a 35gal. fuel cell and dual batteries will be built into the compart behind the axle. With room for tools and a spare tire also...
      Just keep in mind the Astro is already a rear wheel drive vehicle and the Aerostar is a FWD.
      Thanks for looking.
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    12. #32
      Join Date
      Mar 2003
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      838
      I am pretty sure the Aerostar is RWD Mark. I think you're thinking of the Windstar (now called the Freestar or something stupid like that). I've been wrong before though, so I could be again.

      Have you considered mounting the fuel cell ahead of the rear axle? Seems a shame to go through all that work to improve the weight distribution (10" motor set-back) and then hang so much weight outside the axles again. Maybe a conjoined twins C5 style setup.
      Last edited by toddshotrods; 09-25-2004 at 05:51 AM. Reason: typo
      Todd Perkins
      todd's hot rods

    13. #33
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      2,764
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      You're right Todd...
      "1990-97 Ford Aerostar: Introduced way back in 1986, Ford's rear-drive minivan came in both passenger and cargo-hauling form..."
      Show's to go you how much attention I've been paying...
      Sorry about that FGC... Build on Dude...
      Mark... out there, somewhere...
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    14. #34
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States

      Want/Need some input...

      I ordered these bushing ends last week...
      http://www.suicidedoors.com/products...k_ends_200.jpg
      Some background:
      I got them in the 1.5" & the 2" diameters. I will use the 1.5" for the upper arms and the 2" on the Lowers. These will be welded directly to the control arms. The inner sleeves for both sizes accept a 9/16ths dia. bolt. The price for these is very cheap! $9.99 for the inner and outer sleeves AND the poly bushings. I couldn't buy the material for just the outers for that!
      The upper cross shaft I am using is for a mid 80's G-body. The shaft dia. is 5/8's of an inch. I can turn the I.D. of the poly bushing to increase the inner sleeve to .875 O.D. x .12 wall D.O.M. which will accept the 5/8th cross shaft. This is a must do thing so the cross shaft will work. My question is should I do the same thing with the lowers? I can use them as is with a 9/16ths bolt but I think I should upsize them while I am doing it just to be on the safe side. The tubing cost is minimal so thats not the issue. I will probably do it but I was just wanting a little input from you guys.
      Thanks
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    15. #35
      Join Date
      May 2003
      Location
      St. Charles, Mo
      Posts
      424

      engine models

      Mark,

      Everything looks great. I wish this site was around before I started designing my suspention and had it all built. After reviewing this thread I have a feeling I may have some issues with it but am too afraid to find out and too far along to change now.

      Where did you get the model of the engine, it looks extremely detailed and usually not something you could model very easily. The oil pan has all of the ribs, all of the accessories, etc. I designed my car in Pro-E but just mocked up a model for the engine so I could design the headers. They came out close but would have been nice to have the and actual engine model. If you didn't model that, where did you get it? I have plans for another project car and would like to find a model for a small block. My Nova has a BBC.

      Thanks,
      Dennis Linson

    16. #36
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      Dennis, you have a PM...
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    17. #37
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States

      Going from "virtual reality" to "reality"...

      Here are a few pics of the bushings and sleeves I mentioned above...

      I will be making a few revisions to the UCA Sleeves to make them work with the "G" body cross shaft I am using.
      They will need to be narrowed up a bit so the nut and washers will go on... The inner sleeves will work with a 9/16th bolt just fine but I will be replacing the inners with a piece of 7/8" O.D. x .12 wall D.O.M so they will slip over the 5/8" dia. shaft/thread on the cross shaft. I will open up the I.D. of the poly bushings slightly to fit the new inner sleeve O.D.

      I will leave the LCA sleeve length alone but I will upgrade the through bolt to a 5/8th's dia. to mirror the mod to the uppers. I probably don't need to but I'll feel better about it so bear with me.

      I picked up all of the steel for the cradle build last Friday. A stick of 2" O.D. x .12 wall D.O.M. A stick of 2 x 4 x .12 wall rect. and a half stick of 2 x 3 x .12 wall. I also ordered the 7/8" O.D. stuff for the new sleeves and a 20' piece of 1/2" x 3" HRS for the tubing bender build. I also picked up my buddies big tubing bender to bend up the control arms and also to use as a model for my version. I'll get some pics this weekend and post them up...
      Thanks for looking
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    18. #38
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      Well, if you read my "Taking a new job" thread you know I haven't had much time to work on the Astro lately BUT... Bonspeed was busy building my rims! They were delivered yesterday and they look great! I will take some pics and put them up this weekend.
      I have one of the 18x12's in the living room and it is HUGE! My wife just shakes her head as I sit there looking at it...
      I have so much to do but I am on overtime right now and am pretty well tapped, energy wise, when I get home at night. Believe me the motivation is there and I will have a lot more capital to work with now (majorly huge rate increase!!!) so, as soon as I can, I am going to get busy setting the workshop up and getting it cleaned out... I have too much stuff...
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    19. #39
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      CA
      Posts
      452

    20. #40
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      2,764
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      Hey Katz, How's it going?
      I'll get some pics tonight... When I got home from work last night my wife had put a piece of plate glass on the rim which turned it into a very shiney end table for my lazy boy recliner... It looks VERY cool. :icon996:
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

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